[01:41] <bluesabre> jphilips: I honestly haven't had any time to look into it. If we haven't filed a bug, we should.
[01:41] <jphilips> bluesabre: what package should I file it against? did you see what the other devs suggested we do to fix the issue?
[01:42] <JackFrost> I'm rather against that "fix"
[01:42] <bluesabre> Missed all of it
[01:42] <JackFrost> I suppose when irccloud was having issues you didn't see responses?
[01:43] <bluesabre> Just been working all day and night for a few weeks, not spent much time catching up here.
[01:43] <JackFrost> Nah that's fine.  The other flavor made gnome-software a hard dep in their meta.
[01:44] <JackFrost> Since IRCCloud was being flakey, I don't know if you saw: < JackFrost> bluesabre: ayatana-indicator-application is on the ISO.
[01:44] <bluesabre> Making it a hard dep sounds like a bad hack
[01:45] <bluesabre>  ayatana-indicator-application on the iso, that's good, right?
[01:45] <JackFrost> xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin/xfce4-panel takes care of that.
[01:48] <bluesabre> Ah, gotcha, so gotta figure our how to kick that :)
[01:49] <JackFrost> Hard dep obviously means you can't remove it without removing xubuntu-desktop, while this is technically fine, it means on upgrades it gets re-installed every time.  That's a rec of xfce4-indicator-plugin.
[07:45] <ochosi> JackFrost, bluesabre: i don't see much reason to keep xfce4-indicator-plugin around tbh. indicator-messages? that must be one of the few remaining "use cases" (i'm not sure this still works with people using webmail much more and apps like telegram, whatsapp web or signal on their laptops/desktops)
[07:45] <JackFrost> Sure, fair enough.  Some of the ayatana-indicator-* stuff is kind of cool, but we don't ship it.
[07:47] <ochosi> oh, rly? what kind of indicators are there?
[07:48] <ochosi> i only remember "the old days" with the session indicator, indicator-power (which was not as featureful as what we have with xfpm), indicator-sound (which we replaced with pa-plugin), indicator-messages
[12:45] <bluesabre> Yeah, indicator-messages is really the last useful one that doesn't have some sort of alternative. But its usefulness is reduced now, I believe Pidgin no longer works with it, so its just Thunderbird.
[12:49] <bluesabre> indicator-cpufreq is handy, though I admittedly don't use it these days
[13:00] <jphilips> agree with ochosi, that indicator isn't that useful and is the first plugin i remove after installation, as i also remove thunderbird
[17:43] <JackFrost> ochosi: There's about 10 in Debian now, actually!  But yeah, it can be removed.
[17:58] <ochosi> JackFrost: is there a list somewhere? or anything particularly good?
[18:01] <JackFrost> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ayatana-webmail_21.1.25+dfsg1-1.html, but does https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-ayatana-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org count as a perhaps terrible list?  I'd seen ayatana-indicator-notifications before you released a xfce4-notifyd version that had a panel plugin, it wasn't bad.
[18:02] <JackFrost> ochosi: Basically, I don't believe anything that doesn't already have a panel plugin somewhere, at this point.