[03:37] <blahdeblah> Just heard the news about infinity. :-(  Very sorry to hear it, and my condolences to his family and all the team at Canonical.  A great loss for the community.
[03:38] <sarnold> <3 it hurts :(
[03:55] <tumbleweed> he'll be sorely missed :(
[08:39] <seb128> juliank, hey, did you see bug #1912718 which claims to be a regression from the recent oem changes
[10:42] <juliank> seb128: people claim a lot, half the time it's wrong. I don't have any insight into this feature and what it does
[10:43] <juliank> you can see it's been tagged incoming, so it'll be discussed next thursday
[10:44] <juliank> like why blame the oem changes and not the hwe kernel grouping changes
[10:47] <seb128> SRU team ^ we might want to back that update out of focal-updates or .2 until the regression is sorted out
[10:47] <seb128> sil2100, ^ fyi
[10:48] <seb128> juliank, one week to wait is really suboptimal with the LTS .2 coming
[10:49] <juliank> the update is already phased at 0%
[10:49] <juliank> it's not like anyone gets it
[10:50] <juliank> i just autoremoved my kernels yesterday, so I'm not going to be helpful
[10:51] <seb128> juliank, did we land apt phasing in focal? if not any apt user would still get the updated version...
[10:52] <juliank> no
[10:52] <seb128> also the .2 ISO doesn't care about the phasing %
[10:52] <juliank> yes
[10:52] <seb128> it's going to include the current versions
[10:53] <juliank> I don't have insight into this, but holding back the update from .2 seems like the wrong approach
[10:53] <seb128> it's fine if you don't want to handle that regression, still I think it should be on the release team list to check before .2
[10:53] <seb128> right, shipping a regression in a LTS point release is also the wrong approach
[10:57] <juliank> seb128: I can confirm the bug in hirsute
[10:59] <juliank> seb128: yeah this is a regression from the linux hwe change, as it now matches versioned packages rather than meta packages
[11:01] <juliank> So I guess we gotta add a tag to bug 1902025
[11:06] <juliank> seb128: So I can revert those changes, in SRUs at least, the devel change history is harder to revert...
[11:07] <juliank> but maybe bdmurray and JawnSmith want to actually fixi t
[11:07] <juliank> We do have another regression report that causes phasing to go to 0% which I don't understand
[11:07] <juliank> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/eac836e467681c6b96247949de5b356d6c3da968
[11:08] <juliank> people apparently using the synaptic backend (despite aptdaemon being installed)
[11:08] <juliank> did they remove their aptd binary?
[11:08] <juliank> weird
[11:09] <juliank> (they certainly don't set the environment variable forcing aptdaemon as we can see in ProcEnvironment file)
[11:09] <juliank> Should be fixed too
[11:10] <juliank> but arguably we have no way to collaborate on SRUs of update-manager
[11:10] <juliank> there is no repo, so I can't commit a fix and have the others commit their fixes :/
[11:11] <seb128> juliank, those reports are from LXQt desktops
[11:11] <seb128> so that flavor is probably not installing aptdaemon?
[11:11] <juliank> seb128: Dependencies says "aptdaemon 1.1.1+bzr982-0ubuntu32.3"
[11:12] <juliank> that's why I said, they both have aptdaemon installed and not set the variable, so how do they enter the codepath :D
[11:13] <seb128> juliank, you don't know if they have not set the variable, I think the ProcEnviron is only listed a selected set of variables
[11:13] <seb128> otherwise you would have things like XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP in there
[11:13] <seb128> or XDG_DATA_DIRS
[11:13] <juliank> ah
[11:13] <seb128> juliank, that's the environment variable that sets the backend?
[11:14] <juliank> UPDATE_MANAGER_FORCE_BACKEND_SYNAPTIC=1
[11:14] <sil2100> I don't have context, what regression are we talking about?
[11:14] <juliank> I think making it "return" or "pass" instead of "raise NotImplementedError"
[11:14] <juliank> sil2100: We have two
[11:15] <seb128> sil2100, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1912718 is the one I'm concerned about for desktop
[11:15] <juliank> sil2100: A regression from bug 1902025 means kernels are not autoremoved anymore (bug 1902025), and another regression from the oem stuff causes crashes for users forcing synaptic backend
[11:15] <seb128> sil2100, I think it should be resolved for .2
[11:16] <juliank> I don't know what the right answer for bug 1902025 is
[11:16] <juliank> but certainly matching all kernel packages when we're trying to find meta packages isn't
[11:16] <juliank> Reverting that change is easy which means hwe kernels won't be scoped under Ubuntu base again, but meh
[11:17] <juliank> I don't know if we can just revert the upload
[11:18] <juliank> that'd be something to discuss with the OEM team, as I don't know what people agreed upon
[11:19] <sil2100> Well, I'd revert the change if anything if we know this particular change caused the regression
[11:19] <sil2100> Since backing off the package from focal-updates is really not that helpful
[11:19] <juliank> Laney can reproduce the other issue - the NotImplementedError, but I don't have luck so far
[11:20] <juliank> ah I need to be on an enabled system
[11:20] <sil2100> Reverting all the changes, well, as juliank mentioned, this upload has more changes than just this so it's troublesome
[11:20] <juliank> We can wait a couple hours and give bdmurray and jawnsmith a chance to fix it
[11:21] <juliank> the hwe kernel regression
[11:21] <juliank> but I'm not sure what the right solution is there
[11:23] <juliank> Let's see
[11:25] <juliank>   * UpdateManager/Dialogs.py: do not mention livepatch settings when the
[11:25] <juliank>     interface is not installed, thanks to Sebastien Bacher for the patch.
[11:25] <juliank>     (LP: #1807900)
[11:25] <juliank> ugh
[11:25] <juliank> extracting those individual changes and _not_ reverting them is hard
[11:26] <juliank> There is a ton of test changes that I can't trace to anything
[11:27] <Laney> make a branch this time
[11:27] <Laney> seriously
[11:27] <juliank> Laney: I'm mostly talking about hirsute, which has a branch :D
[11:27] <juliank> a bzr branch
[11:28] <juliank> and everything is in "release" merge commits
[11:29] <juliank> How do I revert a commit in bzr even?
[11:30] <juliank> As I said, fixing the SRUs is easy, it's not split over 20 commits there
[11:33] <juliank> I want to revert changes 2900.2.*
[11:34] <juliank> which come after 2901
[11:34] <Laney> I think you bzr merge the inverse of them, or something like that
[11:35] <Laney> juliank: https://git.launchpad.net/~laney/update-notifier/commit/?id=b6f277875d95130ab0b5bc9a5e4d26511f25a3d4 any comment? I didn't realise apt.Cache() could fail, but it can and this error has stopped phasing :>
[11:36] <juliank> No matter what I do, it also reverts the change in 2900
[11:37] <juliank> ugh it was a silent reformatting in a release commit
[11:38] <Laney> need to get better at vcs discipline ¬_¬
[11:39] <juliank> I think I got it now
[11:40] <juliank> Laney: Well that's the way bzr is supposed to be used and that's why git won :D
[11:41] <juliank> rebasing and producing clean commits rather than just have huge numbers of fixups in merges
[11:43] <juliank> running autopkgtest now for hirstue
[11:43] <sil2100> juliank: give me a sign once you have something for update-manager! I'm leaving it in your hands o/
[11:45] <juliank> sil2100: Please remove update-manager 20.10.2 from groovy, it only contained the broken change
[11:46] <juliank> sil2100: Or should I upload higher-versioned revert so people get update?
[11:51] <sil2100> juliank: I think it makes more sense to do a versioned revert, because this one has been around for quite a while now
[11:51] <juliank> sil2100: ack
[11:54] <juliank> focal is running autopkgtests now
[11:55] <Laney> look at my ping now >:|
[11:55] <juliank> though to be fair, I compared against the 20.04.10.3 upload I created (which was replaced)
[11:56] <juliank> huh
[11:56] <juliank> git-ubuntu is missing the 20.10.3 upload
[12:01] <rbasak> juliank: which package?
[12:01] <rbasak> update-notifier?
[12:01] <juliank> rbasak: update-manager
[12:02] <rbasak> It's in the queue. I can bump priority if you'd like?
[12:03] <rbasak> Queue size is 189 - mostly language-pack-*
[12:03] <juliank> rbasak: Nah, I worked around locally
[12:03] <juliank> :D
[12:03] <rbasak> OK!
[12:03] <juliank> sil2100: update-managers for focal, groovy ready
[12:04] <sil2100> juliank: thanks! Will look in a moment!
[12:39]  * Laney times out on feedback from juliank and uploads
[12:39] <juliank> Laney: I did not have any comment, all was good, fwiw
[12:39] <Laney> thanks, same effect then :>
[12:40] <Laney> silly bugs are silly
[12:47] <Laney> heh we have two different tagging schemes going on in update-notifier git
[12:57] <Laney> doko: just saw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup on LWN, have you/we considered doing the same?
[12:59] <doko> Laney: how would that help? the interpreter is not linked with the shared libpython
[13:00] <Laney> k thanks for the feedback
[13:02] <sil2100> 13:57 < sil2100> juliank: hey, do we have a bug for the commit_oem issues with the synaptic backend?
[13:03] <sil2100> 13:58 < sil2100> Since I'd like that linked in with a separate tracking bug if anything
[13:03] <sil2100> 14:00 < sil2100> The error tracker report doesn't seem to have a bug yet
[13:04] <Laibsch> Hello, long-time Ubuntu contributor here.  I've always had an interest in LTS and I'd like to become an LTS dev.  Alas, my wiki page says immutable.  Is this a common problem?  I thought a wiki page was still part of the application.
[13:04] <Laibsch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RolfLeggewie
[13:04] <rbasak> Laibsch: try logging out and logging in again to the wiki please
[13:04] <Laibsch> Sure
[13:04] <Laibsch> Good to see some of the old names still around ;-)
[13:05] <doko> Laney: there's also #948802, now replied to
[13:05] <Laibsch> rbasak: It's still immutable.
[13:05] <Laibsch> Last touched in 2014.
[13:06] <rbasak> There were some spam issues in the wiki AFAIK, which meant that people had to be approved, which was basically done for every real person.
[13:06] <rbasak> Let me see if I can find that.
[13:07] <sil2100> juliank: I created https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1913732 via the error tracker
[13:08] <Laibsch> rbasak: FWIW, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda is immutable for me as well.
[13:08] <Laibsch> I'm logged in via Ubuntu One.
[13:09] <rbasak> Laibsch: sorry I can't find a reference. I think either your login is screwed up somehow (bug in wiki.ubuntu.com?) or you need to belong to some "I'm not a spammer" team. Could you ask in #canonical-sysadmin please?
[13:09] <Laibsch> ocf
[13:09] <Laibsch> ofc
[13:09] <Laibsch> thx
[13:09] <GunnarHj> Laibsch: You need to be a member of ~ubuntu-wiki-editors. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide#Contributing
[13:09] <rbasak> Ah, thanks.
[13:09] <rbasak> I was looking at my own memberships. I'm not a member!
[13:09] <Laibsch> I guess not many people applying for elevated privileges these days anymore
[13:10] <Laibsch> rbasak: Haha, that's classic.
[13:10] <cjwatson> Spam makes everything terrible
[13:10] <Laibsch> nice! ;-)
[13:10] <Laibsch> Yes, spam sucks
[13:10] <rbasak> It's just anti-spam. I believe the bar for membership of that team is low :)
[13:10] <cjwatson> I suspect that the actual permissions are the union of ~ubuntu-wiki-editors and a few other teams
[13:10] <GunnarHj> rbasak: As a dev you are a member of ubuntu-members, which also gives edit access to the wikis.
[13:10] <cjwatson> There we go
[13:10] <rbasak> That explains it. Thanks :)
[13:11] <sil2100> juliank: ok, added it to your changelog entry and re-uploaded
[13:11] <Laibsch> popey: You are listed as the admin of that team.  Maybe you can have a look and approve r0lf for wiki editing? (notice the zero instead of o)
[13:12] <popey> hello there
[13:12] <Laibsch> Hi, that was fast!
[13:12] <popey> Done!
[13:12] <Laibsch> I need wiki edit rights for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RolfLeggewie
[13:12] <Laibsch> Thanks!
[13:13] <popey> Might need to logout / back in, and refresh the page
[13:13] <popey> Sacrificing chickens in chalk pentagrams is optional and may also help.
[13:13] <Laibsch> Yup, that worked.  Thanks a bunch.
[13:14] <cjwatson> Silly, chickens are for SCSI
[13:14] <cjwatson> Wiki needs goats
[13:24] <Laibsch> bdmurray: while we are at it, would you be so kind to renew my membership in https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad  (It's been pending for a while, I've been a member for about a decade or so, but dropped out last year)
[13:24] <Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~r0lf is my LP handle
[13:41] <Laibsch> hggdh: you were the last one to renew my membership in November 2019.  Maybe you can pull the switch again this time for me for bugsquad?
[13:43] <sil2100> juliank, seb128: can one of you confirm that the reverted update-manager in focal-proposed fixes the regression?
[14:06] <juliank> sil2100: Sorry I somehow did not get notifications
[14:07] <sil2100> Laibsch: hey! We see that you have added your name to both the SRU developer and MOTU applications to the DMB Agenda
[14:07] <juliank> ah it seems i turned them off
[14:08] <sil2100> Laibsch: sadly this is not enough information for us to consider your applications - please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess and prepare all necessary steps
[14:08] <sil2100> Laibsch: thank you!
[14:09] <Laibsch> I'm in the process of doing that, just securing my slot
[14:10] <sil2100> Laibsch: there's not too many applicants usually, so just feel free to add your name once you have the base application and a date at which you'd want to apply
[14:11] <sil2100> For now I have removed your name from the agenda - but just re-add it with the application link and date
[14:12] <teward> Laibsch: as a DMB member I would rather you get your application in order first before you put it on the agenda, taking into account sil's statements :)
[14:12] <teward> sometimes getting the apps in line takes longer than you expect ;)
[14:13] <teward> *points at Eickmeyer as an example* took him 3 months to get his application in order :P
[14:13] <teward> ('course i use that as an extreme example - i know why there was a delay there)
[14:13] <rbasak> FWIW, I'd prefer to give some latitude here. If an application is ready soonish, I'm not bothered what order things happen in.
[14:15] <teward> *shrugs* guess i'm a stickler for getting ducks in order :P
[14:15] <rbasak> Getting an application in ends up annoyingly circular sometimes.
[14:15] <rbasak> I remember being asked by potential endorsers "What's the meeting date" "I don't know I'm supposed to get endorsements first" etc.
[14:16] <rbasak> So to avoid sending applicants around in circles, even if the formal process doesn't require that, I prefer just to let them sort out their ducks in whatever order they want :)
[14:30] <sil2100> Well, yes, but in this case there was no date and no application started
[14:47] <seb128> sil2100, sorry I can't easily do that today, I don't have a focal setup to trigger the bug handy and that's not a quiet day :-/
[15:39] <hggdh> Laibsch: done
[15:40] <Laibsch> hggdh: Thank you so much!!
[15:49] <sil2100> juliank: so will you be able to somehow easily verify LP: #1912718 today?
[16:00] <juliank> sil2100: gotta boot a focal vm and install some old kernels
[16:00] <juliank> mark them auto, then run update-manager
[16:00] <juliank> Of course, if somebody else already has a VM that would save some effort :D
[16:00] <juliank> Ugh guess I dcan just boot live disc, too
[16:18] <juliank> sil2100: I verified that bug, maybe Laney can check the other one? I fail getting OEM packages to appear in the first place atm
[16:18] <juliank> it's weird
[16:19] <Laney> you can just write oem-qemu-meta to $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/ubuntu-drivers-oem.package-list probably
[16:20] <juliank> Laney: nvermind, my update-manager was too old :D
[16:20] <Laney> /o\
[16:23] <juliank> Laney: Oh well, this crashed too
[16:23] <juliank> ah
[16:23] <juliank> ugh
[16:23] <juliank> no synaptic installed
[16:23] <juliank> I should really drink some tea
[16:23] <Laney> hahahaha
[16:23] <Laney> having a good afternoon over there
[16:24] <Laney> I have no idea how much the synaptic backend actually works
[16:24] <juliank> I'm going to kill that backend in hirsute soon
[16:24] <juliank> Not sure if anything is happening, but oh well, it's not crashing
[16:26] <juliank> It doesn't seem to do anything
[16:28] <juliank> The one in release pocket works but throws an AttributeError
[16:31] <juliank> damn it
[16:32] <sil2100> uh
[16:34] <juliank> I alt+f4d gedit in the vm, but I actually alt+f4d the vm
[16:34] <juliank> Today is really not the day for this
[16:35] <juliank> This is going to remain broken one way or the other, we can't really fix it
[16:36] <juliank> as in, you see the oem packages but they do nothing
[16:40] <Laney> I guess you get the stuff next time
[16:40] <Laney> or is it really nothing, like they're in the list but not installed?
[16:41] <juliank> Laney: So current commit fixes the crash but never launches synaptic, gets stuck idling in main loop
[16:41] <juliank> Laney: Have to call action_done
[16:41] <juliank> from commit_oem
[16:41] <juliank> Then it basically ignores installing oem pacakges
[16:43] <Laney> oh I see, yeah, you have to move from PRE_INSTALL to INSTALL
[16:43] <Laney> annoying
[16:46] <juliank> Laney: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8mrT3tfWjr/
[16:46] <juliank> Laney: copied from live focal system, so already pre-verified :D
[16:47] <juliank> uploaded
[16:51] <sil2100> New update-manager
[16:51] <sil2100> yay
[16:52] <juliank> sil2100: At least it's already verified, so we don't need more time than building it :D
[16:52] <sil2100> Weeeeeeeeell, the process requires testing the built binaries! Though uh, this is python so whatever
[16:52] <juliank> :D
[16:52] <juliank> It's close enough
[16:53] <juliank> Next day we do something like this, please let it be a day where I'm not half dead
[16:54] <juliank> Sleep tracking looks great, but it was a terrible night
[16:58] <juliank> Laney: don't we also need your new update-notifier for .2?
[16:59] <juliank> ah I guess it's more meh than the crashes in update-manager
[16:59] <juliank> :D
[16:59] <Laney> no particular opinion there, do you think you can get into that situation from an image?
[16:59] <Laney> i seem to remember that update-manager is somehow disabled there actually but that could be wrong
[16:59] <juliank> probably the notifications are turned off
[17:00] <juliank> Anyhow I think I'm done for now, and will hop on Zwift to get some 20km virtual cycling in - 3 days left in this month and 54 kilometers left to reach my 400 km goal
[17:01] <juliank> Also need to find free space in the kitchen to actually make dinner :/
[17:01] <sil2100> Ok, the action_done stuff looks legit, accepting
[17:01] <juliank> :)
[17:01] <sil2100> plz mark verified once it's all built and shiny
[17:02] <juliank> I'm out for like 1-2 hours with a break in the middle I can check in
[17:02] <juliank> but it's a busy evening :/
[17:13] <bdmurray> Laney: Are you good with https://code.launchpad.net/~jawn-smith/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/396616 now?
[17:16] <Laney> sure, I can approve
[17:16] <bdmurray> I can do the uploads just wanted to make sure you are happy with it.
[17:17] <Laney> I dunno what prompted the latest 'no system bus is present' stuff though, the desktop will not work at all if that's the case
[17:17] <Laney> but surrrrrrrrrrre
[17:17] <bdmurray> It failed to build
[17:18] <Laney> commented with a suggestion to squash it all and approved, cheers
[17:19] <bdmurray> thanks!
[18:41] <jdstrand> xnox: yeah, that's what I was going to resort to depending on what rick_h said (not sure how this is expected to work)
[20:14] <juliank> bloody alt+f4 hell in vms
[20:20] <juliank> sil2100: verified the bugs, actually reverified them properly :D
[20:21] <sil2100> \o/
[20:22] <juliank> it took a bit longer than planned, seems I was not fast enough making dinner or post-ride finish up :/
[20:22] <sil2100> juliank: thank you! Will release soonish, even though it's Friday - but uh, better this than the regression
[20:22] <sil2100> No worries, I also went AFK for some exercise earlier ;)
[20:22] <juliank> woohoo - exercise :)