| wonko | does it work on 5.10 liquorix? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| OvenWerks | wonko: I used to do that but as I am testing and developing audio setup sw I need to have as many different kinds of audio devices as I can | 00:00 |
| OvenWerks | I need to reboot to find out | 00:00 |
| wonko | Every time I look at any sort of performance related results for liquorix vs lowlatency I'm not overly impressed. :) | 00:02 |
| OvenWerks | well it could just as easy be 5.8 vs 5.10 | 00:05 |
| OvenWerks | [ 7.622398] snd_fireworks fw1.0: EFW transaction timed out | 00:07 |
| OvenWerks | [ 7.622409] snd_fireworks fw1.0: Sound card registration failed: -5 | 00:07 |
| wonko | that's in liquorix? | 00:08 |
| OvenWerks | yup | 00:08 |
| wonko | boo | 00:08 |
| wonko | how about vanilla 5.10 lowlatency/generic? | 00:08 |
| OvenWerks | also 5.10 | 00:08 |
| wonko | damn | 00:08 |
| OvenWerks | I don't have 5.10 generic | 00:08 |
| wonko | I don't think it matters | 00:08 |
| wonko | the bits lowlatency tweaks shouldn't matter | 00:09 |
| OvenWerks | I think it is an alsa module problem | 00:09 |
| wonko | oh, ALSA? What about FFADO? | 00:09 |
| OvenWerks | ffado works | 00:09 |
| wonko | ok, that's fine then | 00:09 |
| OvenWerks | I think it shows most (if not all) people runnning FW audio are not using the alsa fw stack. | 00:12 |
| wonko | I literally can't get it to work for me at all | 00:13 |
| OvenWerks | what about with linux 5.4 | 00:13 |
| wonko | nope | 00:13 |
| wonko | Installing 5.10 now | 00:18 |
| wonko | although I need to avoid rebooting for as long as possible due to work crap | 00:18 |
| wonko | Oh, I should run this docker container on my NUC | 00:18 |
| wonko | then it doesn't matter | 00:18 |
| OvenWerks | With the broken fireworks module, I don't have to reboot to switch to ffado drivers | 00:21 |
| wonko | Interesting. :) | 00:25 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: I am dl the 21.04 iso to see if the snd-fireworks module works with that. I do not know if the ALSA modules are tied to the kernel version or not and the ALSA version from 20.04 to 20.10 to 21.04 are all different. | 16:39 |
| OvenWerks | If I can, I will also try usng that as a testbed for pipewire. We know Pipewire is not ready for use but it would be good to be able to tell the dev where it does not meat expectations | 16:45 |
| wonko | My experiences so far make me not really care about FireWire and alsa. FFADO for life. :) | 16:57 |
| wonko | But I am curious to see how 21.04 does overall. | 16:58 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: Yeah that it true. Right now PW can use the FW backend.. So I want to find out how well workarounds can deal with that. | 16:59 |
| OvenWerks | The thing is, it will not be long before PW replaces pulse. | 17:00 |
| OvenWerks | I do not know how well PW will bridge to jack is jack is run outside of pw. | 17:01 |
| OvenWerks | s/is/if/ | 17:03 |
| wonko | wouldn't you just want to control PW directly and let it handle jack? | 17:14 |
| OvenWerks | yes... but, we are already having trouble with FW devices in alsa which is the only way PW can see them | 17:15 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Not 100% sure the version of Pipewire in our archive will be the same as in the Fedora archive (which is ready). | 17:15 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: I may build to keep up and beyond any release. | 17:16 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Fair. | 17:16 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: I do not have the time to learn the fedora system | 17:17 |
| OvenWerks | It is enough to keep up with what ubuntu/debian is doing | 17:17 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Yeah, neither do I anymore. I'm trying to figure out a way to hand-off Jam. :( | 17:17 |
| wonko | OvenWerks: that's going to be a problem then for FFADO users. Ugh, what a mess that will be made by a tool to make things "simpler". :-D | 17:18 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: The dev is not against supporting ffado, it has been a blind spot for him. He just assumed alsa covered that now. | 17:19 |
| * OvenWerks made that assumption too untill a week ago. | 17:19 | |
| wonko | ok, so maybe we can contriute to that because I think that would be helpful for us as well | 17:19 |
| OvenWerks | even we ran jack just to talk to the device and used PW as the main graph for applications run in | 17:20 |
| wonko | Hmm, maybe I'll PCI Passthrough the FW card to a VM so I can mess around with it and not disturb my desktop where I'm trying to get work done. | 17:20 |
| wonko | Although I have a new FW cable showing up today. I'm going to try that before I do anything else to see if it helps. | 17:21 |
| wonko | but with passthrough I'll at least be able to do dev work if need be | 17:23 |
| RikMills | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99RPMVzipls | 18:27 |
| RikMills | Not usre if thaat is useful for your default panel? | 18:27 |
| RikMills | *sure | 18:27 |
| Eickmeyer | RikMills: Looks like an interesting concept. Not 100% sure if it's useful for us, but it's nice to have an alternate separator for sure. | 18:35 |
| wonko | OvenWerks: Ok, installed 21.04 and it looks like it has 5.8 with no other options? The page for it claims 5.11 though? | 19:27 |
| wonko | oh, that's omgubuntu | 19:27 |
| wonko | so maybe not acurate. :) | 19:27 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: I have not got that far :) but I am more interested in the fact that the version of alsa (libalsa, libasound, etc) seems to be different. | 19:28 |
| wonko | when is freeze? feb 25th, right? | 19:29 |
| OvenWerks | alsa and modules != kernel version | 19:29 |
| wonko | hmmm, FFADO 2.5.2 | 19:30 |
| wonko | 2.4.2 | 19:30 |
| Eickmeyer | 2.4.4 is latest version. | 19:33 |
| wonko | yeah, and it doesn't change much, but it does get rid of that popup window for data collection that is no longer used | 19:33 |
| wonko | so it would be nice to see it in | 19:33 |
| Eickmeyer | I can probably do that. Saw it was released in August, but nobody in Debian has touched it. | 19:34 |
| OvenWerks | I am more worried about ALSA as it is the alsa fireworks module that is broken in 20.10 | 19:35 |
| wonko | I'm working on pci passthrough so I can test that sort of thing (not that I have the best set of hardware to use because ALSA never worked for me) :-D | 19:36 |
| wonko | but, this PCI slot is shit and there is a ton of stuff in this iommu group. :( | 19:37 |
| Eickmeyer | Can't do anything about 20.10. ALSA is in main so I couldn't do anything about that anyhow. | 19:37 |
| wonko | I miss my xeon motherboard at times. | 19:37 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: yes I know. that is why I want to look at H | 19:37 |
| wonko | way better IOMMU layout than your average desktop | 19:37 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: ok. :) | 19:37 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: to be honest, alsa FW is so bad that ffado is the way to go. | 19:38 |
| Eickmeyer | Ok, working on it now whilst I wait for my son to finish his schoolwork. | 19:38 |
| OvenWerks | it is just another reminder of how bad Computer Audio has fallen | 19:38 |
| OvenWerks | oh Eickmeyer just a heads up controls 2.1.2 is about to get tagged | 19:39 |
| Eickmeyer | I think the biggest problem is there's hardly any incentive for FW devices because ERR:NoNewHardware | 19:39 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Thanks for the heads up. | 19:39 |
| Eickmeyer | I'll get an auto email when the deed is done. :) | 19:39 |
| wonko | It's a real shame that there is this push for USB audio because honestly USB is terrible for audio. I don't get it. | 19:40 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: That was quick. HAHA | 19:41 |
| Eickmeyer | wonko: It's getting better with thunderbolt and USB 3.1+. | 19:41 |
| Eickmeyer | wonko: FW is also problematic because Apple, who created it, has abandoned it. | 19:42 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: does it deal any better with low latency? Is it better than 1ms? | 19:43 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: I honestly don't know, because my device is USB 2.0. Audio manufacturers are being glacier slow in updating hardware to USB 3.1. | 19:44 |
| OvenWerks | (1 ms for the usb protocol, audio has to be at least double, probably tripple) | 19:44 |
| OvenWerks | I think the internal audio protocol is still the same. | 19:44 |
| OvenWerks | I have not heard of an audio protocol that is USB3* specific | 19:45 |
| Eickmeyer | I mean, to be fair, 1ms isn't even intelligible to the human ear. | 19:51 |
| OvenWerks | no but it does determin the edge of stability | 19:52 |
| OvenWerks | also say, .5ms (more in any I have seen) just from analog to digital, 3ms from USB to jack (or whatever), 3ms back to USB and the another .5ms back to analog | 19:54 |
| OvenWerks | If the effects in between introduce any extra at all that gets reall close to 10ms where things start to matter. | 19:55 |
| OvenWerks | I think those involved with networked audio (aes67, AVB, dante) all work for sub 1ms conversions for a reason. It is the same as not needing 24 bits but being able record 20db down make it worth while | 19:58 |
| wonko | well, so much for pci passthrough | 20:02 |
| wonko | stupid consumer grade shit | 20:02 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1913812 | 21:30 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1913812 in linux (Ubuntu) "snd_fireworks module fails to load" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 21:30 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: plese click on the "This bug affaects you" link in green neer the top | 21:31 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: you probably need to be logged in. | 21:31 |
| OvenWerks | wonko also maybe leave a note that says you have an audiofire 4 (I think) | 21:32 |
| wonko | Added | 21:32 |
| OvenWerks | Thank you | 21:33 |
| OvenWerks | Perhaps this will be fixed by 22.04 :P | 21:33 |
| wonko | when even fewer people will care about ALSA based FW. :-D | 21:35 |
| OvenWerks | Both of us show a growing trend of people looking for old gear because the new gear is crumby | 21:36 |
| wonko | true | 21:39 |
| wonko | ugh, new FW cable | 21:39 |
| wonko | thought I'd see what happens with 32/2 | 21:39 |
| wonko | first start of jack the usual nonsense | 21:39 |
| wonko | second start of jack libffado segfaults. :( | 21:39 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: when the audio devices change for pulse (I guess the default output device) it normally puts a indictor window in the middle of the page with either a big speaker icon or an icone with a crossed out speaker. in H I get a smaller box, text only. Maybe missing an icon? F was fine | 21:43 |
| wonko | Ok, running 64/2, let's see what happens. | 21:43 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: I can look and see what's going on this weekend. There was an update to materia-kde that just landed, so that might fix it. | 21:44 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: I guess I meant G was fine (20.10) ... F was fine too but I have studio on to of K so not a good case to point to | 21:44 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Yeah, there have been a couple of updates to materia-kde this month, so I think the ubuntustudio-look package might need some TLC for missing icon links. I think I can get to it this weekend. | 21:46 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: funny thing is that when I first used studio-controls in G they worked, but after system upgrade did not. 2.1.2 will fix though. | 21:46 |
| wonko | Another oddity is with Carla and the Rack view. I need to resize the window to get the racks to not go past the right side of the view (Carla gets started maxed) | 21:46 |
| * OvenWerks really doesn't mind the smaller box :) | 21:46 | |
| Eickmeyer | wonko: Yeah, that's beyond my purview. Anything app specific like that is with the app. Definitely falktx's domain on that one. | 21:47 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: I do not have that problem. Carla does not (has never for me) start up full screen. | 21:47 |
| wonko | Do you start it from withing RaySession? | 21:48 |
| wonko | I wonder if that's doing something weird to it | 21:48 |
| Eickmeyer | It might be. Agordejo is the way to go now. | 21:48 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: my screen size is 1600x900 so not big. | 21:48 |
| wonko | I've got 1440p | 21:49 |
| OvenWerks | I have not used raysession | 21:49 |
| wonko | it probably doesn't need to be that big but it sits off on its own virtual desktop so whatever. :-D | 21:49 |
| wonko | Eickmeyer: I'll give it a look | 21:49 |
| Eickmeyer | It's in the backports repo, latest version. | 21:49 |
| Eickmeyer | Uses new-sm as a dependency. | 21:49 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: there is no backport directory for 21.04 either (even empty) I don't know when you add those though | 21:50 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: I add those after FeatureFreeze when packages get updated after FF. | 21:51 |
| Eickmeyer | Really, when packages with new features get updated. | 21:51 |
| Eickmeyer | Until then, Universe is fair game. | 21:51 |
| OvenWerks | makes sense. I am just pointing out errors when I see them | 21:51 |
| wonko | OvenWerks: the Start Agordejo button stays stuck grey saying please install. Is there a way to reset that other than restarting controls? | 21:51 |
| Eickmeyer | wonko: You'd have to restart controls. Doesn't affect anything, it doesn't even have to be running for Jack to run. | 21:52 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: I don't think so | 21:52 |
| Eickmeyer | Unlike qjackctl. | 21:52 |
| OvenWerks | My first thought was "I'll add it to my list" but I am not sure how | 21:53 |
| OvenWerks | qjackctl has a setting that allows that too. | 21:53 |
| Eickmeyer | I wouldn't, OvenWerks. You designed studio-controls to be a set and leave application, not something that needs to run constantly. | 21:53 |
| wonko | Eickmeyer: I know, just bugging Oven over UI nonsense. :) | 21:53 |
| Eickmeyer | That's true, but not by default RE: QjackCtl. | 21:53 |
| wonko | OvenWerks: Can you make it so you can click it again after the please message and it resets? | 21:53 |
| OvenWerks | wonko: it would have to not be grayed out | 21:54 |
| wonko | Oh. :( | 21:54 |
| OvenWerks | to me grayed out is a good indicator that it doesn't work ;) | 21:55 |
| wonko | Yeah, it just seems like "ok, i instaled it no go do the needful" would be a reasonable way to act, but if it's not possible not a huge deal. | 21:56 |
| wonko | Now, how the hell does agordejo work? :-D | 21:56 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: we have too many applications in Audio Production again, time for another sub menu maybe. | 21:56 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Yeah, or move some stuff to existing submenus. | 21:57 |
| OvenWerks | right | 21:57 |
| OvenWerks | zyn could go to synths | 21:58 |
| OvenWerks | meters to utilities | 21:58 |
| Eickmeyer | If you want to take that on, go right ahead. :) Git repo is up-to-date. | 21:59 |
| OvenWerks | mcpdisp-ext should be in midi utilities | 21:59 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: if I get time. I will | 21:59 |
| Eickmeyer | Ok. :) | 21:59 |
| OvenWerks | There is a bug I need to take care of in our grub file and I am part way through studio-controls next and some ardour stuff... | 22:01 |
| wonko | Ok, Travis-CI queue times are out of control. Time to switch to something else. ;( | 22:04 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: FYI H has pipewire installed on the iso | 22:06 |
| Eickmeyer | Oh? | 22:06 |
| Eickmeyer | I didn't authorize that. | 22:07 |
| Eickmeyer | >_> | 22:07 |
| OvenWerks | I went to muon to install it and much is already installed | 22:07 |
| OvenWerks | but ffado tools _is_ installed so good. Oh when you build controls if you can add ffado-tool as a dep please | 22:09 |
| OvenWerks | Eickmeyer: ^^^ | 22:09 |
| Eickmeyer | OvenWerks: Ok, can do. | 22:09 |
| OvenWerks | interesting, both pulse and pipewire are running | 22:15 |
| OvenWerks | the pipewire in ubuntu does not have pipewire-jack | 22:51 |
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