[00:00] does it work on 5.10 liquorix? [00:00] wonko: I used to do that but as I am testing and developing audio setup sw I need to have as many different kinds of audio devices as I can [00:00] I need to reboot to find out [00:02] Every time I look at any sort of performance related results for liquorix vs lowlatency I'm not overly impressed. :) [00:05] well it could just as easy be 5.8 vs 5.10 [00:07] [ 7.622398] snd_fireworks fw1.0: EFW transaction timed out [00:07] [ 7.622409] snd_fireworks fw1.0: Sound card registration failed: -5 [00:08] that's in liquorix? [00:08] yup [00:08] boo [00:08] how about vanilla 5.10 lowlatency/generic? [00:08] also 5.10 [00:08] damn [00:08] I don't have 5.10 generic [00:08] I don't think it matters [00:09] the bits lowlatency tweaks shouldn't matter [00:09] I think it is an alsa module problem [00:09] oh, ALSA? What about FFADO? [00:09] ffado works [00:09] ok, that's fine then [00:12] I think it shows most (if not all) people runnning FW audio are not using the alsa fw stack. [00:13] I literally can't get it to work for me at all [00:13] what about with linux 5.4 [00:13] nope [00:18] Installing 5.10 now [00:18] although I need to avoid rebooting for as long as possible due to work crap [00:18] Oh, I should run this docker container on my NUC [00:18] then it doesn't matter [00:21] With the broken fireworks module, I don't have to reboot to switch to ffado drivers [00:25] Interesting. :) [16:39] wonko: I am dl the 21.04 iso to see if the snd-fireworks module works with that. I do not know if the ALSA modules are tied to the kernel version or not and the ALSA version from 20.04 to 20.10 to 21.04 are all different. [16:45] If I can, I will also try usng that as a testbed for pipewire. We know Pipewire is not ready for use but it would be good to be able to tell the dev where it does not meat expectations [16:57] My experiences so far make me not really care about FireWire and alsa. FFADO for life. :) [16:58] But I am curious to see how 21.04 does overall. [16:59] wonko: Yeah that it true. Right now PW can use the FW backend.. So I want to find out how well workarounds can deal with that. [17:00] The thing is, it will not be long before PW replaces pulse. [17:01] I do not know how well PW will bridge to jack is jack is run outside of pw. [17:03] s/is/if/ [17:14] wouldn't you just want to control PW directly and let it handle jack? [17:15] yes... but, we are already having trouble with FW devices in alsa which is the only way PW can see them [17:15] OvenWerks: Not 100% sure the version of Pipewire in our archive will be the same as in the Fedora archive (which is ready). [17:16] Eickmeyer: I may build to keep up and beyond any release. [17:16] OvenWerks: Fair. [17:17] Eickmeyer: I do not have the time to learn the fedora system [17:17] It is enough to keep up with what ubuntu/debian is doing [17:17] OvenWerks: Yeah, neither do I anymore. I'm trying to figure out a way to hand-off Jam. :( [17:18] OvenWerks: that's going to be a problem then for FFADO users. Ugh, what a mess that will be made by a tool to make things "simpler". :-D [17:19] wonko: The dev is not against supporting ffado, it has been a blind spot for him. He just assumed alsa covered that now. [17:19] * OvenWerks made that assumption too untill a week ago. [17:19] ok, so maybe we can contriute to that because I think that would be helpful for us as well [17:20] even we ran jack just to talk to the device and used PW as the main graph for applications run in [17:20] Hmm, maybe I'll PCI Passthrough the FW card to a VM so I can mess around with it and not disturb my desktop where I'm trying to get work done. [17:21] Although I have a new FW cable showing up today. I'm going to try that before I do anything else to see if it helps. [17:23] but with passthrough I'll at least be able to do dev work if need be [18:27] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99RPMVzipls [18:27] Not usre if thaat is useful for your default panel? [18:27] *sure [18:35] RikMills: Looks like an interesting concept. Not 100% sure if it's useful for us, but it's nice to have an alternate separator for sure. [19:27] OvenWerks: Ok, installed 21.04 and it looks like it has 5.8 with no other options? The page for it claims 5.11 though? [19:27] oh, that's omgubuntu [19:27] so maybe not acurate. :) [19:28] wonko: I have not got that far :) but I am more interested in the fact that the version of alsa (libalsa, libasound, etc) seems to be different. [19:29] when is freeze? feb 25th, right? [19:29] alsa and modules != kernel version [19:30] hmmm, FFADO 2.5.2 [19:30] 2.4.2 [19:33] 2.4.4 is latest version. [19:33] yeah, and it doesn't change much, but it does get rid of that popup window for data collection that is no longer used [19:33] so it would be nice to see it in [19:34] I can probably do that. Saw it was released in August, but nobody in Debian has touched it. [19:35] I am more worried about ALSA as it is the alsa fireworks module that is broken in 20.10 [19:36] I'm working on pci passthrough so I can test that sort of thing (not that I have the best set of hardware to use because ALSA never worked for me) :-D [19:37] but, this PCI slot is shit and there is a ton of stuff in this iommu group. :( [19:37] Can't do anything about 20.10. ALSA is in main so I couldn't do anything about that anyhow. [19:37] I miss my xeon motherboard at times. [19:37] Eickmeyer: yes I know. that is why I want to look at H [19:37] way better IOMMU layout than your average desktop [19:37] OvenWerks: ok. :) [19:38] Eickmeyer: to be honest, alsa FW is so bad that ffado is the way to go. [19:38] Ok, working on it now whilst I wait for my son to finish his schoolwork. [19:38] it is just another reminder of how bad Computer Audio has fallen [19:39] oh Eickmeyer just a heads up controls 2.1.2 is about to get tagged [19:39] I think the biggest problem is there's hardly any incentive for FW devices because ERR:NoNewHardware [19:39] OvenWerks: Thanks for the heads up. [19:39] I'll get an auto email when the deed is done. :) [19:40] It's a real shame that there is this push for USB audio because honestly USB is terrible for audio. I don't get it. [19:41] OvenWerks: That was quick. HAHA [19:41] wonko: It's getting better with thunderbolt and USB 3.1+. [19:42] wonko: FW is also problematic because Apple, who created it, has abandoned it. [19:43] Eickmeyer: does it deal any better with low latency? Is it better than 1ms? [19:44] OvenWerks: I honestly don't know, because my device is USB 2.0. Audio manufacturers are being glacier slow in updating hardware to USB 3.1. [19:44] (1 ms for the usb protocol, audio has to be at least double, probably tripple) [19:44] I think the internal audio protocol is still the same. [19:45] I have not heard of an audio protocol that is USB3* specific [19:51] I mean, to be fair, 1ms isn't even intelligible to the human ear. [19:52] no but it does determin the edge of stability [19:54] also say, .5ms (more in any I have seen) just from analog to digital, 3ms from USB to jack (or whatever), 3ms back to USB and the another .5ms back to analog [19:55] If the effects in between introduce any extra at all that gets reall close to 10ms where things start to matter. [19:58] I think those involved with networked audio (aes67, AVB, dante) all work for sub 1ms conversions for a reason. It is the same as not needing 24 bits but being able record 20db down make it worth while [20:02] well, so much for pci passthrough [20:02] stupid consumer grade shit [21:30] wonko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1913812 [21:30] Launchpad bug 1913812 in linux (Ubuntu) "snd_fireworks module fails to load" [Undecided,Confirmed] [21:31] wonko: plese click on the "This bug affaects you" link in green neer the top [21:31] wonko: you probably need to be logged in. [21:32] wonko also maybe leave a note that says you have an audiofire 4 (I think) [21:32] Added [21:33] Thank you [21:33] Perhaps this will be fixed by 22.04 :P [21:35] when even fewer people will care about ALSA based FW. :-D [21:36] Both of us show a growing trend of people looking for old gear because the new gear is crumby [21:39] true [21:39] ugh, new FW cable [21:39] thought I'd see what happens with 32/2 [21:39] first start of jack the usual nonsense [21:39] second start of jack libffado segfaults. :( [21:43] Eickmeyer: when the audio devices change for pulse (I guess the default output device) it normally puts a indictor window in the middle of the page with either a big speaker icon or an icone with a crossed out speaker. in H I get a smaller box, text only. Maybe missing an icon? F was fine [21:43] Ok, running 64/2, let's see what happens. [21:44] OvenWerks: I can look and see what's going on this weekend. There was an update to materia-kde that just landed, so that might fix it. [21:44] Eickmeyer: I guess I meant G was fine (20.10) ... F was fine too but I have studio on to of K so not a good case to point to [21:46] OvenWerks: Yeah, there have been a couple of updates to materia-kde this month, so I think the ubuntustudio-look package might need some TLC for missing icon links. I think I can get to it this weekend. [21:46] Eickmeyer: funny thing is that when I first used studio-controls in G they worked, but after system upgrade did not. 2.1.2 will fix though. [21:46] Another oddity is with Carla and the Rack view. I need to resize the window to get the racks to not go past the right side of the view (Carla gets started maxed) [21:46] * OvenWerks really doesn't mind the smaller box :) [21:47] wonko: Yeah, that's beyond my purview. Anything app specific like that is with the app. Definitely falktx's domain on that one. [21:47] wonko: I do not have that problem. Carla does not (has never for me) start up full screen. [21:48] Do you start it from withing RaySession? [21:48] I wonder if that's doing something weird to it [21:48] It might be. Agordejo is the way to go now. [21:48] wonko: my screen size is 1600x900 so not big. [21:49] I've got 1440p [21:49] I have not used raysession [21:49] it probably doesn't need to be that big but it sits off on its own virtual desktop so whatever. :-D [21:49] Eickmeyer: I'll give it a look [21:49] It's in the backports repo, latest version. [21:49] Uses new-sm as a dependency. [21:50] Eickmeyer: there is no backport directory for 21.04 either (even empty) I don't know when you add those though [21:51] OvenWerks: I add those after FeatureFreeze when packages get updated after FF. [21:51] Really, when packages with new features get updated. [21:51] Until then, Universe is fair game. [21:51] makes sense. I am just pointing out errors when I see them [21:51] OvenWerks: the Start Agordejo button stays stuck grey saying please install. Is there a way to reset that other than restarting controls? [21:52] wonko: You'd have to restart controls. Doesn't affect anything, it doesn't even have to be running for Jack to run. [21:52] wonko: I don't think so [21:52] Unlike qjackctl. [21:53] My first thought was "I'll add it to my list" but I am not sure how [21:53] qjackctl has a setting that allows that too. [21:53] I wouldn't, OvenWerks. You designed studio-controls to be a set and leave application, not something that needs to run constantly. [21:53] Eickmeyer: I know, just bugging Oven over UI nonsense. :) [21:53] That's true, but not by default RE: QjackCtl. [21:53] OvenWerks: Can you make it so you can click it again after the please message and it resets? [21:54] wonko: it would have to not be grayed out [21:54] Oh. :( [21:55] to me grayed out is a good indicator that it doesn't work ;) [21:56] Yeah, it just seems like "ok, i instaled it no go do the needful" would be a reasonable way to act, but if it's not possible not a huge deal. [21:56] Now, how the hell does agordejo work? :-D [21:56] Eickmeyer: we have too many applications in Audio Production again, time for another sub menu maybe. [21:57] OvenWerks: Yeah, or move some stuff to existing submenus. [21:57] right [21:58] zyn could go to synths [21:58] meters to utilities [21:59] If you want to take that on, go right ahead. :) Git repo is up-to-date. [21:59] mcpdisp-ext should be in midi utilities [21:59] Eickmeyer: if I get time. I will [21:59] Ok. :) [22:01] There is a bug I need to take care of in our grub file and I am part way through studio-controls next and some ardour stuff... [22:04] Ok, Travis-CI queue times are out of control. Time to switch to something else. ;( [22:06] Eickmeyer: FYI H has pipewire installed on the iso [22:06] Oh? [22:07] I didn't authorize that. [22:07] >_> [22:07] I went to muon to install it and much is already installed [22:09] but ffado tools _is_ installed so good. Oh when you build controls if you can add ffado-tool as a dep please [22:09] Eickmeyer: ^^^ [22:09] OvenWerks: Ok, can do. [22:15] interesting, both pulse and pipewire are running [22:51] the pipewire in ubuntu does not have pipewire-jack