| callmepk | good morning | 01:38 |
|---|---|---|
| duflu | Morning callmepk | 01:40 |
| callmepk | morning duflu | 01:41 |
| seb128 | goood morning desktopers | 05:29 |
| duflu | Morning seb | 05:59 |
| duflu | Uh, too late | 05:59 |
| jibel | Good morning all | 06:01 |
| duflu | Morning jibel | 06:01 |
| jibel | Hi duflu | 06:01 |
| oSoMoN | good morning desktoppers | 06:55 |
| jibel | Salut oSoMoN | 06:55 |
| oSoMoN | salut jibel | 07:02 |
| duflu | Morning oSoMoN | 07:08 |
| oSoMoN | hey duflu | 07:11 |
| didrocks | good morning | 07:19 |
| duflu | Hi didrocks | 07:24 |
| oSoMoN | salut didrocks | 07:28 |
| didrocks | hey duflu, salut oSoMoN | 07:34 |
| marcustomlinson | morning callmepk duflu seb000 jibel oSoMoN didrocks | 07:49 |
| duflu | Hi marcustomlinson | 07:50 |
| callmepk | hi marcustomlinson | 07:50 |
| callmepk | and hi jibel oSoMoN didrocks | 07:50 |
| marcustomlinson | hey duflu, is the fire under control there? | 07:50 |
| duflu | marcustomlinson, I can't tell actually. It's far enough away | 07:52 |
| duflu | Even further away it looks like the north of the state is flooding | 07:52 |
| marcustomlinson | ok I hope it stays that way | 07:52 |
| didrocks | hey marcustomlinson, callmepk | 08:02 |
| seb128 | hey again desktopers | 08:38 |
| didrocks | salut seb128, ça va ? | 08:39 |
| seb128 | lut didrocks, un peu decalqué niveau sommeil mais sinon ça va. Et toi ? | 08:42 |
| callmepk | hi seb128 | 08:42 |
| seb128 | hey callmepk | 08:43 |
| didrocks | seb128: ça va, les tracas habituel mais pas besoin de s’étaler dessus :) | 08:44 |
| duflu | Hi seb128 | 08:46 |
| Wimpress | Morning desktoppers o/ | 08:59 |
| duflu | Morning Wimpress | 08:59 |
| jibel | Good morning Wimpress | 08:59 |
| Laney | sup | 09:02 |
| seb128 | hey Wimpress, jibel, Laney | 09:03 |
| duflu | Hi Laney | 09:03 |
| didrocks | hey Wimpress, jibel, Laney | 09:03 |
| seb128 | oh and also hey duflu :-) | 09:03 |
| Laney | moin seb128 duflu et didrocks | 09:05 |
| oSoMoN | hey ho marcustomlinson, callmepk, seb128, Wimpress, Laney | 09:06 |
| seb128 | lut oSoMoN! | 09:06 |
| jibel | salut didrocks | 09:08 |
| marcustomlinson | hey seb128 Wimpress Laney | 09:09 |
| seb128 | hey marcustomlinson! | 09:11 |
| callmepk | hey Laney | 09:21 |
| === didrocks999 is now known as didrocks | ||
| Laney | hey oSoMoN marcustomlinson callmepk | 09:55 |
| ginggs | hi desktoppers! i see some packages in merge-o-matic universe that used to be in main, e.g. fonts-vlgothic, fonts-ipaexfont, which are no longer maintained. is it worth trying to keep the delta, or should they just be sync'd? | 10:47 |
| Laney | ginggs: Be better if those fontconfig files were upstreamed to Debian I guess; personally I think they're still valuable | 10:51 |
| ginggs | thanks Laney | 10:52 |
| Wimpress | seb128: Asking you since you're the last person on the desktop team to touch libdbusmenu. | 12:25 |
| Wimpress | I'm being asked if the developer running the Ayatana Indicator project could be the upstream for libdbusmenu? | 12:26 |
| seb128 | Wimpress, didn't they fork the different indicator projects under new names? are they changing their mind on this now? | 12:44 |
| Wimpress | Yes, they did. | 12:44 |
| Wimpress | No, they are actively developing Ayatana Indicators. Recently the requirement to use patched GTK for IDO was removed in Ayatana Indicator. | 12:45 |
| Wimpress | They are actively expanding the portfolio of indicators. | 12:45 |
| seb128 | well they did fork e.g libappindicator, I wish they had asked to take over those instead | 12:47 |
| seb128 | anyway to reply to the original question, I'm not owning the project, I would personally be fine with it but I don't think I can take that decision | 12:47 |
| sunweaver | seb128: we forked many components under a new name. | 12:52 |
| sunweaver | for dbusmenu, my fear is that the impact on 3rd party projects might be immense. | 12:52 |
| sunweaver | But I haven't checked fully, yet. | 12:52 |
| Wimpress | seb128: Meet sunweaver. DD and one of the maintainers of Ayatana Indicators. | 12:52 |
| sunweaver | as of today, it would be easier to keep the dbusmenu namespace. | 12:52 |
| sunweaver | _o/ | 12:52 |
| seb128 | we exchanged email in the past | 12:52 |
| seb128 | right | 12:52 |
| seb128 | as it would have been easier to keep the libappindicator one | 12:53 |
| sunweaver | yeah, admittedly. | 12:53 |
| seb128 | we wouldn't be in the situation now where different distro or desktop are on different forks | 12:53 |
| sunweaver | I was a bit hasty back then and did not count in the full impact. | 12:53 |
| sunweaver | so, back to dbusmenu... The UBports people and also us devs of Aytana Indicators heavily rely on dbusmenu and I wonder if it would be ok, to maintain it under the AyatanaIndicators umbrella. | 12:55 |
| sunweaver | thus avoiding the fork, but also releasing the dbusmenu code from CLA. | 12:56 |
| seb128 | I would be fine with that but I'm not the position to decide that, Wimpress should be able to figure out where to ask though | 13:04 |
| seb128 | would you be open to do the same for the other libraries or do you think that doesn't make sense now that they diverged? | 13:04 |
| sunweaver | seb128: thanks for this | 13:04 |
| sunweaver | seb128: which other libraries do you have in mind? | 13:04 |
| seb128 | libayatana-appindicator vs libappindicator | 13:05 |
| sunweaver | hmmm... | 13:06 |
| seb128 | Ubuntu still uses libappindicator as of today and libayatana-appindicator is in universe | 13:06 |
| sunweaver | I presume the libappindicator <-> libayatana-appindicator can-of-worms has been opened now. | 13:06 |
| seb128 | well, probably similar situation for the indicators themselves | 13:06 |
| seb128 | it's just a shame that we end up with different versions, there was no need for that | 13:06 |
| seb128 | but we had the discussion over email at the time, or rather after fact, so that ship probably sailed by now... | 13:07 |
| sunweaver | the libappindicator fork could have been avoided. So a big sorry from my side. The fork of that library wasn't necessary, esp. not the name space change. | 13:07 |
| sunweaver | With the system indicators, it is different. | 13:07 |
| sunweaver | Ayatana System Indicators now work on a vanilla GTK 3 | 13:07 |
| sunweaver | the GTK3 patch that Ubuntus ships is not necessary anymore. | 13:07 |
| seb128 | that would have been a welcome change for the ubuntu indicators as well I think | 13:08 |
| sunweaver | Ubuntu Touch / UBports / Lomiri upstream is currently switching over to Ayatana Indicators, Ubuntu MATE has already switch, as well. So, for system indicators, I recommend trying Ayatana System Indicators and consider switching over. | 13:08 |
| sunweaver | The development is quite progressive and will be co-funded by the UBports foundation in the near future, I hope. | 13:09 |
| seb128 | we don't use those indicators anymore for Ubuntu so I guess that's not for us to decide which variant is being used | 13:10 |
| sunweaver | What we could try to do in Ayatana Indicators is providing a drop-in replacement for libappindicator (esp. for the gir1.2-* packages), so that you don't have to port all applications. | 13:10 |
| seb128 | well porting is not the issue | 13:10 |
| sunweaver | seb128: it's more for the flavours (like XFCE, lubuntu and such) | 13:10 |
| seb128 | I think porting is fine enough | 13:11 |
| sunweaver | ok, then. | 13:11 |
| seb128 | is that you end up having a choice to make between competing implementations | 13:11 |
| sunweaver | If you need any changes to libayatana-*, simply file a pull request on github.com/AyatanaIndicators and I'll be happy to process that. | 13:11 |
| seb128 | which is a sucking situation to be in, especially where there was no reason to create the competing situation | 13:11 |
| seb128 | right | 13:12 |
| sunweaver | I guess, at that time I felt quite helpless regarding having an impact on the code base | 13:12 |
| seb128 | I've personally difficulties to get behind an hostile fork of opensource projects | 13:13 |
| seb128 | but I should probably get over it there | 13:13 |
| sunweaver | I discussed various changes with David Barth around 2012 for the Unit Greeter, the patches ended in nirvana and I guess I should have tried again regarding indicators. | 13:13 |
| seb128 | you didn't even try to reach out to ask if you could take over the upstream project at the time (what you are doing now today for libdbusmenu) | 13:13 |
| sunweaver | Also, at the time when I forked indicators, it became obvious that the projects were switching into sustainmaint-mode. | 13:13 |
| seb128 | right, which would have been a perfect time to help them carry forward being becoming maintainer | 13:14 |
| sunweaver | seb128: I think, all I can say today is: I am tootaly sorry for my hastiness at that time. | 13:14 |
| seb128 | thanks for saying that | 13:14 |
| sunweaver | It would have been the better approach to stick heads together. I realize that now (and also many times before, but haven't said it to the right person). | 13:15 |
| seb128 | anyway, that said and going forward, I would support handing over libdbusmenu, I will try to see if I can help Wimpress with that request | 13:16 |
| seb128 | and we need to revisit using libayatana-appindicator for Ubuntu | 13:16 |
| Wimpress | Thanks seb128 | 13:16 |
| sunweaver | thanks for expressing your pain about it and exchanging thoughts here and now. | 13:16 |
| sunweaver | seb128: awesome and thanks!!! | 13:17 |
| seb128 | np! | 13:19 |
| sunweaver | o/ | 13:20 |
| hellsworth | good morning desktopers | 14:27 |
| jibel | Good morning hellsworth | 14:27 |
| hellsworth | hey jibel :) | 14:28 |
| seb128 | hey hey hey | 14:30 |
| seb128 | Wimpress, meeting? ;-) | 14:31 |
| Wimpress | Hello o/ | 14:31 |
| seb128 | ah :p | 14:31 |
| didrocks | hey hey | 14:31 |
| Wimpress | #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2021-02-02 | 14:31 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 14:31:35 UTC. The chair is Wimpress. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 14:31 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 14:31 |
| Wimpress | Roll call: didrocks, duflu, hellsworth, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, Laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, Trevinho, robert_ancell, callmepk | 14:31 |
| Trevinho | o/ | 14:32 |
| hellsworth | o/ | 14:32 |
| jibel | \0 | 14:32 |
| callmepk | o/ | 14:32 |
| marcustomlinson | \o | 14:32 |
| oSoMoN | o/ | 14:32 |
| Wimpress | Hello desktoppers :-) | 14:32 |
| Wimpress | #topic rls-bb-bugs | 14:32 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html | 14:32 |
| Wimpress | Clear | 14:33 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html | 14:33 |
| Wimpress | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bug/1782984 | 14:33 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1782984 in libx11 (Ubuntu Groovy) "Assertion `!xcb_xlib_threads_sequence_lost' failed with multiple applications" [High,New] | 14:33 |
| Wimpress | Assigning to Timo | 14:34 |
| Wimpress | Everything else is in order. | 14:34 |
| Wimpress | #topic rls-ff-bugs | 14:34 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html | 14:35 |
| Wimpress | http://launchpad.net/bugs/1910838 | 14:35 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1910838 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu) "stopped working after latest update" [Undecided,Incomplete] | 14:35 |
| Wimpress | I think we discussed that one last week. | 14:35 |
| Wimpress | Waiting for feedback. | 14:35 |
| Wimpress | HWE is being discussed. | 14:36 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html | 14:36 |
| Wimpress | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1912498 | 14:38 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1912498 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Focal) "Preinstall some new essential raspi packages in the official raspi images" [High,In progress] | 14:38 |
| Wimpress | ANy of us involved in the above? | 14:38 |
| Wimpress | Looks like sil2100 is working that? | 14:38 |
| Laney | Nah, that's for Łukasz, assign it imo | 14:38 |
| Wimpress | Done. | 14:39 |
| Wimpress | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghostscript/+bug/1913656 | 14:39 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1913656 in ghostscript (Ubuntu Focal) "Fix for Ghostscript 9.50 upstream bug needs to be back-ported" [Medium,New] | 14:39 |
| Wimpress | Any takers? | 14:40 |
| Laney | for Till maybe?> | 14:41 |
| seb128 | tkamppeter_, ^ one SRU for you maybe there? | 14:41 |
| Trevinho | guess it's for TIll? | 14:41 |
| Laney | lol | 14:41 |
| Laney | Tillfest | 14:41 |
| seb128 | :-) | 14:41 |
| Wimpress | Till wins a bug | 14:41 |
| hellsworth | till he protests.. | 14:42 |
| Wimpress | Everything else is assigned. | 14:42 |
| oSoMoN | it's "adopt a bug" day | 14:42 |
| Wimpress | #topic rls-gg-bugs | 14:42 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html | 14:42 |
| Wimpress | Is fine ^ | 14:42 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html | 14:43 |
| Wimpress | http://launchpad.net/bugs/1913651 | 14:43 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1913651 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu Groovy) "/usr/bin/ubuntu-drivers:PermissionError:/usr/bin/ubuntu-drivers@480:__call__:main:invoke:invoke:invoke:new_func:invoke:autoinstall:command_install" [High,Triaged] | 14:43 |
| Laney | it's for tselio_t and in progress afaik, assign it | 14:44 |
| Wimpress | Yep. Assigned. | 14:45 |
| Wimpress | http://launchpad.net/bugs/1913651 | 14:45 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1913651 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu Groovy) "/usr/bin/ubuntu-drivers:PermissionError:/usr/bin/ubuntu-drivers@480:__call__:main:invoke:invoke:invoke:new_func:invoke:autoinstall:command_install" [High,Triaged] | 14:45 |
| Wimpress | That is being handled by Dave. | 14:45 |
| seb128 | that was the same number than before? | 14:46 |
| Laney | wrong link, or else we're all in the matrix | 14:46 |
| Wimpress | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pi-bluetooth/+bug/1901272 | 14:46 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1901272 in pi-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "Can't connect Bluetooth devices after reboot - Ubuntu 20.10 on Raspberry Pi 4" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 14:46 |
| Wimpress | That one ^ | 14:46 |
| seb128 | right | 14:46 |
| Wimpress | Everything else is in order. | 14:46 |
| Wimpress | #topic rls-hh-bugs | 14:46 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-incoming-bug-tasks.html | 14:47 |
| Wimpress | Is fine ^ | 14:47 |
| Wimpress | http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-tracking-bug-tasks.html | 14:47 |
| Wimpress | Also fine ^ | 14:47 |
| Wimpress | #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages | 14:48 |
| Wimpress | https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages | 14:48 |
| seb128 | right | 14:48 |
| seb128 | tiff is waiting for MIR team, their meeting is just after this one | 14:49 |
| seb128 | I will go ask if it didn't get picked for review because it was assigned | 14:49 |
| Wimpress | OK | 14:49 |
| seb128 | n-m sounds like a systemd issue, I pinged r_balint about it | 14:49 |
| rbalint | seb128, ? | 14:49 |
| seb128 | rbalint, we are reviewed blocked in proposed for our team and I was talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1914062 | 14:50 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1914062 in systemd (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager-wait-online.service in 1.28.0-2ubuntu1 fails to start in LXC" [Undecided,New] | 14:50 |
| rbalint | n-m does not start in lzc | 14:50 |
| Wimpress | Anything else in excuses a cause for concern? | 14:50 |
| seb128 | software-properties/armhf, probably to check with foundations | 14:50 |
| seb128 | that keeps beeing flaky or problematic | 14:50 |
| Wimpress | Flappy test? | 14:51 |
| seb128 | :-) | 14:51 |
| seb128 | but otherwise nothing new or problematic, the few glib failures probably need to be checked | 14:51 |
| seb128 | and that's it | 14:51 |
| Wimpress | Thanks. | 14:51 |
| Wimpress | #topic AOB | 14:51 |
| Wimpress | Anyone have anything else they want to discuss? | 14:52 |
| Wimpress | OK, I'll go. | 14:52 |
| Wimpress | I met with the Yaru team last night. | 14:52 |
| rbalint | seb128, the log from the bug contains this: Get:263 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu hirsute-proposed/main amd64 network-manager amd64 1.28.0-2ubuntu1 [2002 kB] | 14:53 |
| Wimpress | TL;DR in terms of Yaru - merging the GTK4 and GNOME40 themes looks to be business as usual. | 14:53 |
| Wimpress | No expected major issues. | 14:54 |
| seb128 | great | 14:54 |
| seb128 | I'm going to upload GTK4 to hirsute today | 14:54 |
| seb128 | Debian NEW is taking forever and since there was a call for testing on discourse | 14:54 |
| Wimpress | Yaru team do have one request though. | 14:54 |
| Wimpress | Can GNOME40 snapshot be uploaded to a PPA so they can test/validate everything is indeed working? | 14:54 |
| seb128 | no | 14:55 |
| Wimpress | So, next cycle then? | 14:55 |
| seb128 | we will eventually get there, but one of the reason we postponed is that we don't have the engineering capacity to do the work required by the updares | 14:55 |
| seb128 | updates | 14:55 |
| Wimpress | Understood. | 14:56 |
| seb128 | the lack of resources applies also to some degree to the ppa | 14:56 |
| Laney | there's a gtk4 package in debian, and that has a demo application or two in it | 14:56 |
| seb128 | we might have wip work landing at some point | 14:56 |
| Laney | which is probably good enough to rebuild on ubuntu, and use for testing | 14:56 |
| seb128 | Laney, I'm basically just fake syncing the version that is sitting in NEW | 14:56 |
| Wimpress | clobrano ^ | 14:56 |
| Laney | good | 14:56 |
| seb128 | I just finished a test build on hirsute and it's fine :-) | 14:57 |
| Laney | so I assume the demos are packaged in there and they can be used for now until we get some apps which require it | 14:57 |
| Wimpress | I have nothing else to add regarding Yaru etc. | 14:58 |
| Wimpress | Anyone have any other topics? | 14:58 |
| Wimpress | Also Feichtmeier ^ | 14:59 |
| seb128 | I'm just going to mention recent topics from discourse for those not follow the website | 14:59 |
| seb128 | https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659 | 14:59 |
| Wimpress | Good point! | 14:59 |
| seb128 | https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/trying-wayland-by-default-again/20575 | 14:59 |
| Trevinho | Wimpress, clobrano: I can do the simplest thing by just copy the debian sources (as they are) in a PPA once they hit that... | 14:59 |
| Trevinho | may be enough for testing | 14:59 |
| seb128 | https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/staying-on-gtk3-and-gnome-3-38-this-cycle | 15:00 |
| Wimpress | Thanks Trevinho | 15:00 |
| seb128 | Trevinho, Debian is frozen | 15:00 |
| Trevinho | well experimental isn't going to be updated? | 15:00 |
| seb128 | they might still update to experimental but I doubt that's going to be a focus | 15:00 |
| Wimpress | Are we done? | 15:01 |
| seb128 | I think so | 15:01 |
| Wimpress | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 15:01:53 UTC. Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2021/ubuntu-desktop.2021-02-02-14.31.moin.txt | 15:01 |
| Wimpress | Thanks everyone. | 15:01 |
| hellsworth | gonna miss you Wimpress | 15:01 |
| oSoMoN | thanks | 15:02 |
| didrocks | thank you Wimpress! | 15:02 |
| jibel | Thanks Wimpress | 15:02 |
| callmepk | thanks Wimpress | 15:02 |
| Trevinho | thanks!! | 15:03 |
| === seb128_ is now known as seb128 | ||
| === ijohnson is now known as ijohnson|lunch | ||
| === ijohnson|lunch is now known as ijohnson | ||
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