[01:38] <callmepk> good morning
[01:40] <duflu> Morning callmepk 
[01:41] <callmepk> morning duflu 
[05:29] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[05:59] <duflu> Morning seb
[05:59] <duflu> Uh, too late
[06:01] <jibel> Good morning all
[06:01] <duflu> Morning jibel 
[06:01] <jibel> Hi duflu 
[06:55] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:55] <jibel> Salut oSoMoN 
[07:02] <oSoMoN> salut jibel 
[07:08] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN 
[07:11] <oSoMoN> hey duflu 
[07:19] <didrocks> good morning
[07:24] <duflu> Hi didrocks 
[07:28] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
[07:34] <didrocks> hey duflu, salut oSoMoN 
[07:49] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk duflu seb000 jibel oSoMoN didrocks
[07:50] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
[07:50] <callmepk> hi marcustomlinson 
[07:50] <callmepk> and hi jibel oSoMoN didrocks 
[07:50] <marcustomlinson> hey duflu, is the fire under control there?
[07:52] <duflu> marcustomlinson, I can't tell actually. It's far enough away
[07:52] <duflu> Even further away it looks like the north of the state is flooding
[07:52] <marcustomlinson> ok I hope it stays that way
[08:02] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, callmepk 
[08:38] <seb128> hey again desktopers
[08:39] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va ?
[08:42] <seb128> lut didrocks, un peu decalqué niveau sommeil mais sinon ça va. Et toi ?
[08:42] <callmepk> hi seb128 
[08:43] <seb128> hey callmepk 
[08:44] <didrocks> seb128: ça va, les tracas habituel mais pas besoin de s’étaler dessus :)
[08:46] <duflu> Hi seb128 
[08:59] <Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
[08:59] <duflu> Morning Wimpress 
[08:59] <jibel> Good morning Wimpress 
[09:02] <Laney> sup
[09:03] <seb128> hey Wimpress, jibel, Laney 
[09:03] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:03] <didrocks> hey Wimpress, jibel, Laney 
[09:03] <seb128> oh and also hey duflu :-)
[09:05] <Laney> moin seb128 duflu et didrocks 
[09:06] <oSoMoN> hey ho marcustomlinson, callmepk, seb128, Wimpress, Laney 
[09:06] <seb128> lut oSoMoN!
[09:08] <jibel> salut didrocks 
[09:09] <marcustomlinson> hey seb128 Wimpress Laney
[09:11] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson!
[09:21] <callmepk> hey Laney 
[09:55] <Laney> hey oSoMoN marcustomlinson callmepk 
[10:47] <ginggs> hi desktoppers!   i see some packages in merge-o-matic universe that used to be in main, e.g. fonts-vlgothic, fonts-ipaexfont, which are no longer maintained.  is it worth trying to keep the delta, or should they just be sync'd?
[10:51] <Laney> ginggs: Be better if those fontconfig files were upstreamed to Debian I guess; personally I think they're still valuable
[10:52] <ginggs> thanks Laney
[12:25] <Wimpress> seb128: Asking you since you're the last person on the desktop team to touch libdbusmenu.
[12:26] <Wimpress> I'm being asked if the developer running the Ayatana Indicator project could be the upstream for libdbusmenu?
[12:44] <seb128> Wimpress, didn't they fork the different indicator projects under new names? are they changing their mind on this now?
[12:44] <Wimpress> Yes, they did.
[12:45] <Wimpress> No, they are actively developing Ayatana Indicators. Recently the requirement to use patched GTK for IDO was removed in Ayatana Indicator.
[12:45] <Wimpress> They are actively expanding the portfolio of indicators.
[12:47] <seb128> well they did fork e.g libappindicator, I wish they had asked to take over those instead
[12:47] <seb128> anyway to reply to the original question, I'm not owning the project, I would personally be fine with it but I don't think I can take that decision
[12:52] <sunweaver> seb128: we forked many components under a new name.
[12:52] <sunweaver> for dbusmenu, my fear is that the impact on 3rd party projects might be immense.
[12:52] <sunweaver> But I haven't checked fully, yet.
[12:52] <Wimpress> seb128: Meet sunweaver. DD and one of the maintainers of Ayatana Indicators.
[12:52] <sunweaver> as of today, it would be easier to keep the dbusmenu namespace.
[12:52] <sunweaver> _o/
[12:52] <seb128> we exchanged email in the past
[12:52] <seb128> right
[12:53] <seb128> as it would have been easier to keep the libappindicator one
[12:53] <sunweaver> yeah, admittedly.
[12:53] <seb128> we wouldn't be in the situation now where different distro or desktop are on different forks
[12:53] <sunweaver> I was a bit hasty back then and did not count in the full impact.
[12:55] <sunweaver> so, back to dbusmenu... The UBports people and also us devs of Aytana Indicators heavily rely on dbusmenu and I wonder if it would be ok, to maintain it under the AyatanaIndicators umbrella.
[12:56] <sunweaver> thus avoiding the fork, but also releasing the dbusmenu code from CLA.
[13:04] <seb128> I would be fine with that but I'm not the position to decide that, Wimpress should be able to figure out where to ask though
[13:04] <seb128> would you be open to do the same for the other libraries or do you think that doesn't make sense now that they diverged?
[13:04] <sunweaver> seb128: thanks for this
[13:04] <sunweaver> seb128: which other libraries do you have in mind?
[13:05] <seb128> libayatana-appindicator vs libappindicator
[13:06] <sunweaver> hmmm...
[13:06] <seb128> Ubuntu still uses libappindicator as of today and libayatana-appindicator is in universe
[13:06] <sunweaver> I presume the libappindicator <-> libayatana-appindicator can-of-worms has been opened now.
[13:06] <seb128> well, probably similar situation for the indicators themselves
[13:06] <seb128> it's just a shame that we end up with different versions, there was no need for that
[13:07] <seb128> but we had the discussion over email at the time, or rather after fact, so that ship probably sailed by now...
[13:07] <sunweaver> the libappindicator fork could have been avoided. So a big sorry from my side. The fork of that library wasn't necessary, esp. not the name space change.
[13:07] <sunweaver> With the system indicators, it is different.
[13:07] <sunweaver> Ayatana System Indicators now work on a vanilla GTK 3
[13:07] <sunweaver> the GTK3 patch that Ubuntus ships is not necessary anymore.
[13:08] <seb128> that would have been a welcome change for the ubuntu indicators as well I think 
[13:08] <sunweaver> Ubuntu Touch / UBports / Lomiri upstream is currently switching over to Ayatana Indicators, Ubuntu MATE has already switch, as well. So, for system indicators, I recommend trying Ayatana System Indicators and consider switching over.
[13:09] <sunweaver> The development is quite progressive and will be co-funded by the UBports foundation in the near future, I hope.
[13:10] <seb128> we don't use those indicators anymore for Ubuntu so I guess that's not for us to decide which variant is being used
[13:10] <sunweaver> What we could try to do in Ayatana Indicators is providing a drop-in replacement for libappindicator (esp. for the gir1.2-* packages), so that you don't have to port all applications.
[13:10] <seb128> well porting is not the issue
[13:10] <sunweaver> seb128: it's more for the flavours (like XFCE, lubuntu and such)
[13:11] <seb128> I think porting is fine enough
[13:11] <sunweaver> ok, then.
[13:11] <seb128> is that you end up having a choice to make between competing implementations
[13:11] <sunweaver> If you need any changes to libayatana-*, simply file a pull request on github.com/AyatanaIndicators and I'll be happy to process that.
[13:11] <seb128> which is a sucking situation to be in, especially where there was no reason to create the competing situation
[13:12] <seb128> right
[13:12] <sunweaver> I guess, at that time I felt quite helpless regarding having an impact on the code base
[13:13] <seb128> I've personally difficulties to get behind an hostile fork of opensource projects
[13:13] <seb128> but I should probably get over it there
[13:13] <sunweaver> I discussed various changes with David Barth around 2012 for the Unit Greeter, the patches ended in nirvana and I guess I should have tried again regarding indicators.
[13:13] <seb128> you didn't even try to reach out to ask if you could take over the upstream project at the time (what you are doing now today for libdbusmenu)
[13:13] <sunweaver> Also, at the time when I forked indicators, it became obvious that the projects were switching into sustainmaint-mode.
[13:14] <seb128> right, which would have been a perfect time to help them carry forward being becoming maintainer
[13:14] <sunweaver> seb128: I think, all I can say today is: I am tootaly sorry for my hastiness at that time.
[13:14] <seb128> thanks for saying that
[13:15] <sunweaver> It would have been the better approach to stick heads together. I realize that now (and also many times before, but haven't said it to the right person).
[13:16] <seb128> anyway, that said and going forward, I would support handing over libdbusmenu, I will try to see if I can help Wimpress with that request
[13:16] <seb128> and we need to revisit using libayatana-appindicator for Ubuntu
[13:16] <Wimpress> Thanks seb128 
[13:16] <sunweaver> thanks for expressing your pain about it and exchanging thoughts here and now.
[13:17] <sunweaver> seb128: awesome and thanks!!!
[13:19] <seb128> np!
[13:20] <sunweaver> o/
[14:27] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[14:27] <jibel> Good morning hellsworth 
[14:28] <hellsworth> hey jibel :)
[14:30] <seb128> hey hey hey
[14:31] <seb128> Wimpress, meeting? ;-)
[14:31] <Wimpress> Hello o/
[14:31] <seb128> ah :p
[14:31] <didrocks> hey hey
[14:31] <Wimpress> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2021-02-02
[14:31] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:31:35 UTC.  The chair is Wimpress.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:31] <Wimpress> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu, hellsworth, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, Laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, Trevinho, robert_ancell, callmepk
[14:32] <Trevinho> o/
[14:32] <hellsworth> o/
[14:32] <jibel> \0
[14:32] <callmepk> o/
[14:32] <marcustomlinson> \o
[14:32] <oSoMoN> o/
[14:32] <Wimpress> Hello desktoppers :-)
[14:32] <Wimpress> #topic rls-bb-bugs
[14:32] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:33] <Wimpress> Clear
[14:33] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:33] <Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bug/1782984
[14:34] <Wimpress> Assigning to Timo
[14:34] <Wimpress> Everything else is in order.
[14:34] <Wimpress> #topic rls-ff-bugs
[14:35] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:35] <Wimpress> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1910838
[14:35] <Wimpress> I think we discussed that one last week.
[14:35] <Wimpress> Waiting for feedback.
[14:36] <Wimpress> HWE is being discussed.
[14:36] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:38] <Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1912498
[14:38] <Wimpress> ANy of us involved in the above?
[14:38] <Wimpress> Looks like sil2100 is working that?
[14:38] <Laney> Nah, that's for Łukasz, assign it imo
[14:39] <Wimpress> Done.
[14:39] <Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghostscript/+bug/1913656
[14:40] <Wimpress> Any takers?
[14:41] <Laney> for Till maybe?>
[14:41] <seb128> tkamppeter_, ^ one SRU for you maybe there?
[14:41] <Trevinho> guess it's for TIll?
[14:41] <Laney> lol
[14:41] <Laney> Tillfest
[14:41] <seb128> :-)
[14:41] <Wimpress> Till wins a bug
[14:42] <hellsworth> till he protests..
[14:42] <Wimpress> Everything else is assigned.
[14:42] <oSoMoN> it's "adopt a bug" day
[14:42] <Wimpress> #topic rls-gg-bugs
[14:42] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:42] <Wimpress> Is fine ^
[14:43] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:43] <Wimpress> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1913651
[14:44] <Laney> it's for tselio_t and in progress afaik, assign it
[14:45] <Wimpress> Yep. Assigned.
[14:45] <Wimpress> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1913651
[14:45] <Wimpress> That is being handled by Dave.
[14:46] <seb128> that was the same number than before?
[14:46] <Laney> wrong link, or else we're all in the matrix
[14:46] <Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pi-bluetooth/+bug/1901272
[14:46] <Wimpress> That one ^
[14:46] <seb128> right
[14:46] <Wimpress> Everything else is in order.
[14:46] <Wimpress> #topic rls-hh-bugs
[14:47] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:47] <Wimpress> Is fine ^
[14:47] <Wimpress> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:47] <Wimpress> Also fine ^
[14:48] <Wimpress> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:48] <Wimpress> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:48] <seb128> right
[14:49] <seb128> tiff is waiting for MIR team, their meeting is just after this one
[14:49] <seb128> I will go ask if it didn't get picked for review because it was assigned
[14:49] <Wimpress> OK
[14:49] <seb128> n-m sounds like a systemd issue, I pinged r_balint about it
[14:49] <rbalint> seb128, ?
[14:50] <seb128> rbalint, we are reviewed blocked in proposed for our team and I was talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1914062
[14:50] <rbalint> n-m does not start in lzc
[14:50] <Wimpress> Anything else in excuses a cause for concern?
[14:50] <seb128> software-properties/armhf, probably to check with foundations
[14:50] <seb128> that keeps beeing flaky or problematic
[14:51] <Wimpress> Flappy test?
[14:51] <seb128> :-)
[14:51] <seb128> but otherwise nothing new or problematic, the few glib failures probably need to be checked
[14:51] <seb128> and that's it
[14:51] <Wimpress> Thanks.
[14:51] <Wimpress> #topic AOB
[14:52] <Wimpress> Anyone have anything else they want to discuss?
[14:52] <Wimpress> OK, I'll go.
[14:52] <Wimpress> I met with the Yaru team last night.
[14:53] <rbalint> seb128, the log from the bug contains this: Get:263 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu hirsute-proposed/main amd64 network-manager amd64 1.28.0-2ubuntu1 [2002 kB]
[14:53] <Wimpress> TL;DR in terms of Yaru - merging the GTK4 and GNOME40 themes looks to be business as usual.
[14:54] <Wimpress> No expected major issues.
[14:54] <seb128> great
[14:54] <seb128> I'm going to upload GTK4 to hirsute today
[14:54] <seb128> Debian NEW is taking forever and since there was a call for testing on discourse
[14:54] <Wimpress> Yaru team do have one request though.
[14:54] <Wimpress> Can GNOME40 snapshot be uploaded to a PPA so they can test/validate everything is indeed working?
[14:55] <seb128> no
[14:55] <Wimpress> So, next cycle then?
[14:55] <seb128> we will eventually get there, but one of the reason we postponed is that we don't have the engineering capacity to do the work required by the updares
[14:55] <seb128> updates
[14:56] <Wimpress> Understood.
[14:56] <seb128> the lack of resources applies also to some degree to the ppa
[14:56] <Laney> there's a gtk4 package in debian, and that has a demo application or two in it
[14:56] <seb128> we might have wip work landing at some point
[14:56] <Laney> which is probably good enough to rebuild on ubuntu, and use for testing
[14:56] <seb128> Laney, I'm basically just fake syncing the version that is sitting in NEW
[14:56] <Wimpress> clobrano ^
[14:56] <Laney> good
[14:57] <seb128> I just finished a test build on hirsute and it's fine :-)
[14:57] <Laney> so I assume the demos are packaged in there and they can be used for now until we get some apps which require it
[14:58] <Wimpress> I have nothing else to add regarding Yaru etc.
[14:58] <Wimpress> Anyone have any other topics?
[14:59] <Wimpress> Also Feichtmeier ^
[14:59] <seb128> I'm just going to mention recent topics from discourse for those not follow the website
[14:59] <seb128> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659
[14:59] <Wimpress> Good point!
[14:59] <seb128> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/trying-wayland-by-default-again/20575
[14:59] <Trevinho> Wimpress, clobrano: I can do the simplest thing by just copy the debian sources (as they are) in a PPA once they hit that... 
[14:59] <Trevinho> may be enough for testing
[15:00] <seb128> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/staying-on-gtk3-and-gnome-3-38-this-cycle
[15:00] <Wimpress> Thanks Trevinho 
[15:00] <seb128> Trevinho, Debian is frozen
[15:00] <Trevinho> well experimental isn't going to be updated?
[15:00] <seb128> they might still update to experimental but I doubt that's going to be a focus
[15:01] <Wimpress> Are we done?
[15:01] <seb128> I think so
[15:01] <Wimpress> #endmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:01:53 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2021/ubuntu-desktop.2021-02-02-14.31.moin.txt
[15:01] <Wimpress> Thanks everyone.
[15:01] <hellsworth> gonna miss you Wimpress 
[15:02] <oSoMoN> thanks
[15:02] <didrocks> thank you Wimpress!
[15:02] <jibel> Thanks Wimpress 
[15:02] <callmepk> thanks Wimpress 
[15:03] <Trevinho> thanks!!