[14:46] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: known issue with kernel: snd_fireworks module will not load. (maybe other alsa firewire modules) However, ffado modules continue to both work and outperform alsa modules for any device :)
[14:47] <OvenWerks> snd_fireworks does load and work for 20.04
[15:37] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "Mauro Gaspari: known issue with "> Not sure if it is the same issue. What happens to me is system gets stuck after grub. Not every time, about 50% of the times. rebooting will allow me to go past that eventually. Only happens with AMD system (my desktop). Does not happen with my Intel + Nvidia system (laptop). Seems to be the same with 20.10 and 21.04. 
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> I have not reported yet because did not have the time to figure out the exact logs not even sure if those can be captured.
[15:43] <Eickmeyer> 100% a kernel regression. >_<
[15:43] <Eickmeyer> Sadly, I doubt we'll see the kernel developers do anything about it.
[15:45] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer: also seems not to be any issue when I use rolling distros, probably was already fixed. Tried tumbleweed, Manjaro (both generic and realtime kernels) and fedora. no issues.
[15:45] <MauroGaspari[m]> so, no big deal, can live with that until it goes away 🙂
[15:47] <MauroGaspari[m]> Short of that, 21.04 is FANTASTIC. tested thoroughly Ubuntu Studio tools on Ubuntu Budgie 21.04. And also on Ubuntu Studio 21.04. Those plasma improvements ... 😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩 , The breeze twilight, new app launcher, OMG . It's awesome RikMills Eickmeyer 
[15:48] <RikMills> and it's only the beta :)
[15:49] <RikMills> plasma beta that is
[15:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> I tried to mess with themes, applets, Latte Dock. Nope. No crashes of Plasma. And the theming seems to be very well done overall.
[15:51] <MauroGaspari[m]> only one thing but probably I am just a Plasma noob. There are a couple of apps such as Remmina (GTK app I believe). Refuses to behave like I cannot right click on the application top bar to move it to other desktops etc. And have not found a way yet on plasma to force it or add a system window frame.
[15:51] <MauroGaspari[m]> I do not have an older install so cannot verify if it is an issue on older plasma versions as well.
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> MauroGaspari[m]: There should still be an application icon present?
[15:53] <RikMills> I'll try to remember to look at that. probably not today though ;)
[15:54] <RikMills> yeah, should be able to move via the icon
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> Oh! I just tried a GTK headerbar app and you're right! There's no way to move it to another desktop! However, right-clicking on the icon in the task manager does the trick and gives you the option.
[15:55] <OvenWerks> Gnome's messing with the window decorations is just wrong.
[15:56] <OvenWerks> The is for the DE not the application
[15:57]  * RikMills meant the taskbar icon
[15:59] <MauroGaspari[m]> > * <@freenode_RikMills:matrix.org> meant the taskbar icon
[15:59] <MauroGaspari[m]> ahhhhhhhhhhh.... told you.. I am just a Plasma Padawan . This works even from the Latte Dock
[16:00] <MauroGaspari[m]> but unable to do that from the top app window frame. which might be an issue for someone. I think also Evolution does that. I'd call it a minor papercut
[16:02] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "The is for the DE not the applic"> totally agree, that is why I was looking if there was a kwin trick where I could force those specific apps to replace or add a system window frame. 😀
[16:10] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: if I go to settings-> Application Style->Gnome/gtk application style and hit preview... it shows a window with proper window decorations... but the real gnome application does not follow, this is decptive
[16:15] <MauroGaspari[m]> <OvenWerks "Mauro Gaspari: if I go to settin"> yeah, I tried that, thanks. Still no controls right clicking on window frame. Interesting because I believe the same works with QT applications GTK DEs
[16:17] <MauroGaspari[m]> And again, guys, don't get me wrong. I am not complaining. I know it is probably one of those QT vs GTK issues. It's all good. For me, even XFCE is quite nice haha
[16:21] <MauroGaspari[m]> > <@freenode_OvenWerks:matrix.org> Mauro Gaspari: if I go to settings-> Application Style->Gnome/gtk application style and hit preview... it shows a window with proper window decorations... but the real gnome application does not follow, this is decptive
[16:21] <MauroGaspari[m]>  * yeah, I tried that, thanks. Still no controls right clicking on window frame. Interesting because I believe the same works with QT applications on GTK DEs
[16:26] <OvenWerks> So settings->kwin scripts->force decorations for GTK+ 3
[16:26] <OvenWerks> This does nto seem to work either (though I think it did at one time)
[16:30] <OvenWerks> Ah, it says "for a list of common GTK+3 applications" which means not all. It appears it has to be done on an application basis? no way of detecting this aberrant behaviour?
[16:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: so this is funny. On telegram desktop, there is an option in the application, to use native window decorations. that fixes the issue.
[16:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> On Remmina, I find no such configuration to change. And i noted no matter what, I cannot make it work from the window frame.... but... if I open the options. options of remmina, is using plasma decorations and I can move that one to another desktop clicking on its window frame 😆😆 what a mess
[16:51] <RikMills> GTK/Gnome do not care a FFAARD about their things working on other DEs
[16:51] <OvenWerks> RikMills: yes, I know.
[16:52] <OvenWerks> They do not seem to care about their own stuff working correctly either.
[16:52] <RikMills> lol
[16:53] <OvenWerks> Their menu setup has been broken since the begining of freedesktop
[16:53] <OvenWerks> Considering the fix is one line....
[16:54] <MauroGaspari[m]> taking a mental note to always try to replace GTK apps with QT ones when using plasma. Time to have a look at KRDC lol
[16:55] <OvenWerks> The fix for the titlebar issue is to rewrite one of the gtk+3 libs and set it to replaces...
[16:55] <OvenWerks> if only I had the time...
[16:56] <MauroGaspari[m]> GTK4 for the fix?
[16:56] <OvenWerks> unlikely
[16:58] <OvenWerks> Gnome has chosen this idea going forward and certainly for kiosk/phone like use, which is probably most computer users, probably the right thing.
[16:59] <OvenWerks> What is not right is not making it work either way.
[17:00] <OvenWerks> It should not be that hard (firefox does it) to have both a menu bar or hide it.
[17:03] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: it is quite... annoying. Good news though, Plasma in Ubuntu Studio 21.04 is super fast. It's unbelievable the progress KDE has made in the last few years. 
[17:53] <OvenWerks> I was able to at least get the colour of the gtk title bar to be the same as the plasma titlebar
[18:10] <Eickmeyer> It should just pick-up whatever GTK theme is being used.
[18:11] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which theme though? There seems to be a possible mix of themes all the way through
[18:11] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The ISO uses Materia by default.
[18:12] <OvenWerks> There is a global theme, plasma style... ok both the same
[18:12] <OvenWerks> then there is application style
[18:12] <Eickmeyer> Global theme sets *EVERYTHING* except GTK.
[18:13] <Eickmeyer> The Global theme for us is Ubuntu Studio, which is just a symlink/reconfig of Materia.
[18:13] <Eickmeyer> Plasma style is the panel, desktop, etc. Application style is the applications themselves.
[18:14] <OvenWerks> Then there is application style, which does not include all the themes in global, but does affect gtk title bars :P
[18:14] <Eickmeyer> For us, application style is Kvantum because the Kvantum application sets the theme based on SVG.
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> That's because the GTK title bars are client-side, not server-side.
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> So they'll base on whatever GTK theme is being used (including application theme), not the window theme.
[18:15] <OvenWerks> Application style->gtk3 theme gives a dropdown which again does not include my global theme :P
[18:16] <OvenWerks> but application style->window decorations has more again.
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: As I stated before, the global theme does not set GTK theme.
[18:17] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  that is ok. I am not that upset with that, but it is just finding where are all these tings
[18:17] <OvenWerks> it seems there are 5 or 6 different places for them
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> Window decorations don't affect GTK client-side decorations.
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> The Global Theme is supposed to be the one theme area to rule them all. Except GTK for reasons.
[18:19] <OvenWerks> reasons == broken
[18:19] <RikMills> https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kde-gtk-config/-/commit/7e61802bb179f53e0e785109ce7ab35d9b5dec54
[18:20] <RikMills> if that is what you mean?
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: He's upset that the global theme doesn't affect the GTK theme.
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> (never has)
[18:20] <OvenWerks> no, that is not it.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> it is that there seem to be many places that affect things
[18:21] <RikMills> ok. I only skimmed the scrollback here
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Global Theme sets Plasma style, Application style, and Window decorations. That's it.
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> That covers 3 of the 4 things.
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> Oh, it sets Icon theme too. 4/5
[18:21] <OvenWerks> if I go to /usr/share/themes I do not see the theme I am using...
[18:22] <RikMills> and wallpaper if it specifies one
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Did you install a theme locally?
[18:22] <OvenWerks> if I try ~/.local/share/themes/ it doesn't exist
[18:22] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  yes of course]
[18:22] <OvenWerks> :)
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> GTK theme?
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> Or plasma theme?
[18:23] <OvenWerks> no plama
[18:23] <OvenWerks> plasma
[18:23] <OvenWerks> Actually two of them
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> Then it should be in ~/.local/share/plasma
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> (~/.local/share/themes only applies to GTK themes)
[18:24] <OvenWerks> Ah, I see so the system version is in /usr/share/plasma
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> Yes.
[18:25] <Eickmeyer> The window decorations go in /usr/share/kwin/aurorae
[18:25] <OvenWerks> So I should look for a gtk3 theme I like
[18:26] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, sure.
[18:26] <Eickmeyer> I thought you liked the CDE theme?
[18:27] <OvenWerks> That is what I am using.. commonality theme with the breeze-CDE window decorations I think.
[18:28] <Eickmeyer> Gotcha. Yeah, you might be able to find it.
[18:29] <OvenWerks> commonality has a horible window title BG, breeze-cde is the right one
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> https://store.kde.org/p/1231025
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> ^ CDE/Motif ?
[18:29] <OvenWerks> but the gtk apps grab the commonality colour
[18:30] <Eickmeyer> Yes, as they should. If you set to Breeze then they'll grab the right color scheme, but remain the breeze style.
[18:31] <OvenWerks>  :P I was able to manually change ~/.config/gtk-3.0/colors.css
[18:31] <OvenWerks> which does work
[18:32] <Eickmeyer> yes, that would do the trick.
[18:32] <OvenWerks>  but then I found there is a breeze-cde in colors that also works
[18:33] <OvenWerks> Now all that is left is to find matching icons for the title bar buttons
[19:50] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: installing cdetheme (for gtk3) will tell the DE to add it's own title bar decorations
[19:51] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: It will leave the GTK extra title bar as well though. But the plasma bar will allow move to desktop.
[19:52] <OvenWerks> MauroGaspari[m]: the cdetheme-solaris which comes in the same package, will probably change the colours in a less obtrusive manner
[19:53] <OvenWerks> There may be some other gtk themes that also add a title bar but with a look you perfer