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[00:20] <wxl> i just heard yet another complaint about the fact that we don't have a simple option for a full dark experience. if i remember correctly the steps to make that happen are on discourse somewhere. maybe we could make some simple program to twiddle it?
[00:40] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_screengrab just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_screengrab/353/
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[01:14] <kc2bez[m]> wxl: I don't know if it meets the easy threshold or not but this is in LXQt 0.16 https://share.riseup.net/#Zdrwl6Robn27DLnvnhmLKA
[01:15] <wxl> oh well it's not 100% easy cuz there's still GTK
[01:15] <kc2bez[m]> Understood
[01:15] <wxl> i hear lots of folks fixed it with kvantum
[01:16] <wxl> maybe we could ship that with two configs, standard and dark?
[01:16] <kc2bez[m]> I used kvantum which works fine if you don't twiddle too many things.
[01:17] <wxl> i've never used it and don't care too much but clearly other people do
[01:18] <kc2bez[m]> We should probably have 2 options I guess.
[01:18] <wxl> i mean there's dark mode everything these days so i think people kind of expect it
[01:18] <kc2bez[m]> I agree
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 @HMollerCl  has a script to put a dark mode, which seems to work also in 0.16
 Or it seems to do it correctly on debian
 I tend not to do too much themeing as then to update screenshots for the manual I would have to change back
 we actually have that in phab I think. (re @N0um3n0: @HMollerCl  has a script to put a dark mode, which seems to work also in 0.16)
 Yes (re @kc2bez: we actually have that in phab I think.)
[02:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALd73edb954197: Fix styling on resume playback] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALd73edb954197
[02:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALfdf10f7e6f48: Add more descrpition on custom skins] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALfdf10f7e6f48
[02:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL10581fb36e39: Add last.fm tracking option] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL10581fb36e39
[02:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL4b40a01df2b9: Fix order of fullscreen and window decorations in vlc prefrences] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL4b40a01df2b9
[02:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALe6b152052152: Update wording on which fullscreen monitor] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALe6b152052152
[02:55] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL6970ea4249b3: Add note on snapshot section] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL6970ea4249b3
[03:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL2926fbddf1e0: Add fast seek option] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL2926fbddf1e0
[04:31] <wxl> there's an old screenshot here to show how much i care about looks https://soundcloud.com/djxen23/juno-vi
[04:33] <wxl> @lynorian do you not theme because of the screenshots or because you don't really care anyways?
[04:34] <lynorian> both why not both
[04:34] <wxl> aw heck
[04:34] <wxl> wait i meant or not xor, so we're good XD
[05:25] <RyuKurisu[m]> <lubot "[telegram] <N0um3n0> @HMollerCl "> Do you know where that script went? 🙂
[05:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T185: deal with merges] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T185#4231
[06:12] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T185: deal with merges] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T185#4233
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[11:07] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver just failed after being unstable: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/361/
 Here it is https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-breeze-config/repository/master/ but I remember I tried in 0.16 and it didn't work, but I compiled myself over 20.04 for testing. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <RyuKurisu[m]> <lubot "[telegram] <N0um3n0> @HMollerCl "> Do you know where that script went? 🙂)
[11:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/568/
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[18:05]  * The_LoudSpeaker is here. @wxl around?
[18:05] <wxl> yep
[18:07]  * The_LoudSpeaker boots up the ontainers
[18:07] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/683/
[18:07] <The_LoudSpeaker> *containers
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[18:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/521180878/buildlog_ubuntu-hirsute-s390x.liblxqt_0.16.0-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[18:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> about this, so I try deleting all those problematic lines form s390x symbols file?
[18:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> *should I try?
[18:12] <wxl> oh we're still on that 
[18:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah. i didn't have time before. 
[18:12] <wxl> np
[18:13] <The_LoudSpeaker> college stuff. and today I was filing taxes for dad
[18:13] <wxl> so it looks like you just need to do what i did before
[18:13] <wxl> did we really not get libqtxdg done? i thought we did
[18:14] <The_LoudSpeaker> wait a sec
[18:14] <The_LoudSpeaker> i pasted wrong link
[18:14] <kc2bez[m]> I don't think we did xdg no
[18:14] <kc2bez[m]> I synced it from the archive but that was it
[18:14] <wxl> cuz that's first
[18:15] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah we need to watch that
[18:15] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/521797169/buildlog_ubuntu-hirsute-s390x.libfm-qt_0.16.0-3ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[18:15] <The_LoudSpeaker> this is the correct one which is giving us trouble.
[18:16] <wxl> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBLXQTPACKAGINGc87bb9a68e4af79e41f1ae65d2f50f8a854e172b
[18:18] <wxl> ^ did you see that raman? i already fixed it
[18:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> have exatly that opned in my browser rn.
[18:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/568/
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[18:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah as i said wxl, i pasted wrong link first time, pasted the one you had solved.
[18:18] <wxl> so debian is 3.6 on libqtxdg and we're on 3.5 so we need to do that
[18:18] <wxl> dude they're the same link XD
[18:19] <wxl> err wait
[18:19] <wxl> ok they're not XD
[18:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> bruh, i pasted earlier liblxqt related and now libfm related open both you will see
[18:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> XD
[18:19] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/569/
[18:20] <wxl> so this goes back to the conversation we had the other day. i'd make an arch specific file that resolves all the issues
[18:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> there is already. this error is in arch specific file only. we have to modify that file. delete lines from that.
[18:22] <wxl> yep
[18:22] <The_LoudSpeaker> will do this now. brb in 5mins.
[18:22]  * The_LoudSpeaker goes to fairyland
[18:22] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/221/
[18:22] <wxl> but we really should get qtxdg done first
[18:30] <The_LoudSpeaker> oh okay then
[18:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> is there a possiblity that the error which we are getting in libfm-qt is due t libqtxdg not present first?
[18:32] <wxl> it's remotely possible
[18:33] <wxl> however with it affecting s390x specifically, unlikely
[18:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> that's what i thought
[18:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> also, since this came from debian, where can I find s390x build logs of debian?
[18:33] <wxl> ehhhhhh
[18:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> they don't build?
[18:34] <wxl> i mean they have to right but i don't know where
[18:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay. i will ask in their channels lite.
[18:35] <kc2bez[m]> Debian buildd system is different
[18:35] <kc2bez[m]> It isn't weird to have something succeed there and not on Ubuntu
[18:36] <wxl> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=libfm-qt&suite=sid
[18:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> what kind of action is "giveback"
[18:37] <wxl> looks like there were only warnings that there were new symbols, not any missing ones https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=libfm-qt&arch=s390x&ver=0.16.0-3&stamp=1610135380&raw=0
[18:38] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver just became unstable after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/362/
[18:38] <wxl> no clue XD
[18:38] <The_LoudSpeaker> also, who write build result as "maybe successful" ?
[18:38] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/594/
[18:38] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/594/
[18:39] <kc2bez[m]> I think all that is needed is to add the missing ones from the Ubuntu build log to the s390 architecture 🤷‍♂️
[18:39]  * wxl shrugs
[18:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/607/
[18:39] <wxl> right added ones are a warning. missing ones are a problem.
[18:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/123/
[18:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-globalkeys just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-globalkeys/102/
[18:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> kc2bez[m]: that was case with liblxqt too and wxl had removed them from symbols file. 
[18:44]  * theloudspeaker sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vRvkBzDQYOxduxtBafFVtWvA/message.txt >
[18:44] <kc2bez[m]> whoa
[18:44] <theloudspeaker> i have a bad feeling about these new symbols 
[18:44] <kc2bez[m]> wrong spot
[18:45] <theloudspeaker> <kc2bez[m] "wrong spot"> it shows on irc like "posted a long message so..:P)
[18:45] <kc2bez[m]> I thought you were pasting it here instead of the symbols file ;)
[18:45] <theloudspeaker> XD
[18:46] <theloudspeaker> nah. these are on different desktops and I don't paste stuff like that into files.
[18:48] <theloudspeaker> also, about stuff I just pasted above, I am not sure if we should keep the ubuntu side line along with debian one.
[18:48] <theloudspeaker> that line was never there in debian sides
[18:48]  * theloudspeaker check ubuntu commit history
[18:49] <kc2bez[m]> follow debian
[18:49] <kc2bez[m]> add the missing symbols where you have MISSING: 0.16.0-3ubuntu1
[18:49] <theloudspeaker> looks like that line was added by tsimonq2 
[18:50] <theloudspeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING3941df2165af98dd6501ddb26160f86592285578
[18:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/369/
[18:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-runner just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-runner/103/
[18:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_calamares just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_calamares/655/
[18:50] <kc2bez[m]> <kc2bez[m] "add the missing symbols where yo"> for the individual architecture 
[18:51] <theloudspeaker> tsimonq2: tsimonq2 tsimonq2 ABI BREAK!! ABI BREAK!! 
[18:51] <kc2bez[m]> then put it in a ppa and see if it builds
[18:51] <theloudspeaker> ▶️
[18:51] <theloudspeaker> <kc2bez[m] "then put it in a ppa and see if "> yes. doing that.
[18:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-runner just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-runner/103/
[18:57] <theloudspeaker> also, should I bump debhelper-compat? like debian didn't bump it. it's still on 12 for libqtxdg ?
[18:57] <theloudspeaker> wxl: 
[18:57] <kc2bez[m]> you can, you just need to note it in the changelog
[18:57] <wxl> it's a good practice in general
[18:58] <theloudspeaker> so debhelper gets a bump.
[19:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/607/
[19:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/123/
[19:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/629/
[19:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/425/
[19:24] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/133/
[19:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/386/
[19:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/607/
[19:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/426/
[19:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING5bee571317d1: New upstream version.] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING5bee571317d1
[19:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ cc: wxl 
[19:55] <wxl[m]> I probably would have commented about the symbol charges in the changelog 
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> arrey s390x failed again. it hadn't failed in my ppa.
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> ooof! my ppa h=doesn't have all archs.
[19:57]  * The_LoudSpeaker facepalms
[19:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> wxl[m]: yes. will add that.
[20:05] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qps just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qps/394/
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-qtplugin just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-qtplugin/107/
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-qtplugin just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-qtplugin/107/
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/570/
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/608/
[20:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/124/
[20:07] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/370/
[20:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> wxl[m]: how do I go about this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/522525810/buildlog_ubuntu-hirsute-s390x.libqtxdg_3.6.0-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[20:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> so I add that missing one right?
[20:22] <kc2bez> yup
[20:22] <kc2bez> Looks like only one there
[20:23]  * The_LoudSpeaker is super confused about this whole symbols thing.
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> actually I have that line in the symbols file
[20:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/684/
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/libqtxdg/browse/ubuntu%252Fhirsute/debian/libqt5xdg3.symbols$152
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ kc2bez[m] wxl[m]
[20:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/570/
[20:26]  * The_LoudSpeaker tries to remove it an test.
[20:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/629/
[20:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/222/
[20:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/133/
[20:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/386/
[20:26] <wxl> yeah this is confusing
[20:27] <wxl> you want to disable it for s390x
[20:27] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_libsysstat just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_libsysstat/107/
[20:27] <wxl> going back to what i did look here https://launchpadlibrarian.net/521180878/buildlog_ubuntu-hirsute-s390x.liblxqt_0.16.0-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[20:27] <kc2bez> I don't see the missing one
[20:27] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libqtxdg FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libqtxdg/716/
[20:27] <wxl> - (c++)"void std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> >::_M_realloc_insert<int>(__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator<int*, std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> > >, int&&)@Base" 0.12.0
[20:27] <wxl> +#MISSING: 0.16.0-1ubuntu1# (c++)"void std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> >::_M_realloc_insert<int>(__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator<int*, std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> > >, int&&)@Base" 0.12.0
[20:27] <wxl> if you ignore the #MISSING…# stuff you'll notice they're the same
[20:28] <wxl> and here's how i fixed it: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBLXQTPACKAGINGc87bb9a68e4af79e41f1ae65d2f50f8a854e172b
[20:28] <wxl>  (arch=!s390x|c++)"void std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> >::_M_realloc_insert<int>(__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator<int*, std::vector<int, std::allocator<int> > >, int&&)@Base" 0.12.0
[20:28] <wxl> so what you need is:
[20:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> i am doing exactly that rn
[20:29] <wxl>  (arch=!s390x)_ZNSt6vectorISt10unique_ptrI14XdgDesktopFileSt14default_deleteIS1_EESaIS4_EE17_M_realloc_insertIJS4_EEEvN9__gnu_cxx17__normal_iteratorIPS4_S6_EEDpOT_@Base 3.6.0
[20:30] <kc2bez> The changelog should probably be fixed too even though it has been committed
[20:31] <wxl> …like my fix
[20:31] <wxl> tl;dr every change should be tracked in the changelog (duh)
[20:31] <kc2bez> If you look on phab aptghetto raised a concern
[20:31] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah i will add that changelog entry with the s390x fix.
[20:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> apt-ghetto one is for old commit, i did not even touch that part. check my reply there. linked his commit
[20:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> kc2bez[m]: see this commit: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING66431d649f43dedc67633880999ae48df4c93331
[20:33] <kc2bez> I see what you mean but I think it wrong.
[20:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> eh?
[20:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> i don't think I understand what you are saying here.
[20:35] <wxl> i don't think i understand either of you XD
[20:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> basically, apt-ghetto raised a concern on my recent commit about his name in the changelog. 
[20:36] <kc2bez> I think this commit https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING66431d649f43dedc67633880999ae48df4c93331
[20:36] <kc2bez> got pushed to the wrong branch and committed to the archive
[20:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/594/
[20:38] <wxl> oy vey
[20:38] <The_LoudSpeaker> backports/focal is not correct ah?
[20:39] <kc2bez> ubuntu/groovy and ubuntu/hirsute are not correct
[20:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> ah.
[20:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> but not my fault right? my commit only has that symbols changelog entry missing. which i am fixing in next commit alongside the symbols file itself.
[20:41] <kc2bez> no it wasn't you Raman
[20:41] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/426/
[20:41] <The_LoudSpeaker> :)
[20:42] <wxl> it would be nice to fix that, though
[20:43] <wxl> it could be as simple as just copying and pasting in the individual debian entry and then marking the error on the changelog
[20:43] <The_LoudSpeaker> send instructions
[20:43] <wxl> um
[20:43] <wxl>  1. vi debian/changelog
[20:43] <wxl>  2. done
[20:44] <The_LoudSpeaker> hahahaha
[20:44] <The_LoudSpeaker> on which branches and what to do in vi?
[20:44]  * The_LoudSpeaker cannot exit vi
[20:44] <kc2bez> look at the debian source for that chanelog entry
[20:44] <kc2bez> `:wq`
[20:45] <kc2bez> only worry about ubuntu/hirsute
[20:46] <wxl> https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/05/23/stack-overflow-helping-one-million-developers-exit-vim/
[20:47] <wxl> also ESC `ZZ`
[20:47] <kc2bez> ^
[20:48] <wxl> " escape is too far to reach…
[20:48] <wxl> imap jk <Esc>
[20:48] <wxl> " \ is dumb, too
[20:48] <wxl> let mapleader = ","
[20:48] <wxl> " ,, instead of ZZ
[20:48] <wxl> nnoremap <leader><leader> :xa<cr>
[20:48] <wxl> inoremap <leader><leader> <esc>:xa<cr>
[20:48] <wxl> ^ from my .vimrc
[20:49] <kc2bez> I get used to the defaults. I'm on too many boxes to remap anything.
[20:49] <The_LoudSpeaker> i totally understood each and every line of what you wrote here. ^ wxl
[20:49] <The_LoudSpeaker> :)
[20:49] <wxl> i use ,, with no escape
[20:50] <The_LoudSpeaker> finally!! https://launchpad.net/~theloudspeaker/+archive/ubuntu/devel-packages/+build/21013893
[20:50] <kc2bez> Many folks remap to caps lock too
[20:51] <wxl> good job raman
[20:51] <kc2bez> LGTM
[20:52] <wxl> i wonder if we don't need to do a no change rebuild on liblxqt
[20:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> now about that changelog thing, how do I fix it? just remove those entries from changelog?
[20:52] <wxl> yeah
[20:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> that it?
[20:52] <wxl> or maybe we should review that more later
[20:53] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay that seems good. apt-ghetto isn't around now so..
[20:55] <wxl> so now get going on libsysstat
[20:55] <wxl> :)
[20:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> should I bump the version number? or do a force push on this commit?
[20:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> bump right? but people in debian prefer force pushes. they are like helps keep history clean. 
[20:56] <kc2bez> You should bump the ubuntu version and note the adjustments you made
[20:57] <kc2bez> versions are cheap
[20:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> i am like what you are gonna do of a clean history on a forked repo. clean it while merging with main na. 
[20:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> kc2bez: aye. did exactly that but thought if a force push would be okay.
[20:58] <kc2bez> I think it is discouraged
[20:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> wxl you are talking about this symbols file only right? https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING5bee571317d1276c0c776e4f4a7d469eff9d50de#change-bZfPbO6MrVIO
[20:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> which i missed in dchangelog?
[21:00] <The_LoudSpeaker> this one came from debian so i thought new upstream version covers it?
[21:00] <kc2bez> Yeah but you added something right?
[21:00] <kc2bez> Like "Updated symbols." is good
[21:01] <kc2bez> If you add or remove any
[21:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay.
[21:01] <kc2bez> If it is a straight merge it should be noted upstream
[21:01] <kc2bez> It is only necessary to document your changes whatever they are.
[21:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/595/
[21:02] <kc2bez> Time for the meeting.
[21:02] <KGIII> I am here.
[21:02] <kc2bez> !standup
 Here
[21:03] <lynorian> \o
[21:03] <The_LoudSpeaker> o/
[21:05] <kc2bez> ack KGIII @Leokolb lynorian The_LoudSpeaker
[21:05] <KGIII> I might get interrupted so I've gotta go early.
[21:05] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING15fb18d36992: Fixed s390x errors and previous changelog entry] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING15fb18d36992
[21:05] <kc2bez> ok
[21:05] <KGIII> This week, I've been able to continue daily testing and had some time to do a little support. I'm still monitoring the triage process and reading everything in sight. Because 21.04 is soon to be released, I've been making it a point to actually use the OS after doing the testing. My longest test was about 3 hours of normal use and it's looking pretty solid. I'll preemptively thank everyone and I am done.
[21:05] <kc2bez> Thanks KGIII
[21:05]  * guiverc present now too
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks! KGIII
 thanks KGIII
[21:06] <kc2bez> ack guiverc
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> hola guiverc! 
[21:06] <kc2bez> ok, @Leokolb over to you
 Tested Hirsute dailies & also tested T58 minimum install - no major issues - done
[21:07] <kc2bez> Thanks for the testing.
[21:07] <kc2bez> lynorian: is next
[21:09] <lynorian> I edited the prefrences of vlc in the manual and also edited the prefrences for lxqt-runner and htop
[21:10] <lynorian> found a few features in vlc I had not docuemnted
[21:10] <lynorian> that is what I did
[21:11] <kc2bez> Nice, thanks lynorian !
[21:11] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: over to you
[21:12] <theloudspeaker> o/
[21:12] <theloudspeaker> since last week:
[21:12] <theloudspeaker> updated libqtxdg
[21:13] <theloudspeaker> working on libfm-qt's s390x and libsysstat rn
[21:13] <kc2bez> cool
[21:13] <theloudspeaker> that's it.
[21:13] <kc2bez> Thanks for working on those!
[21:14] <kc2bez> guiverc: What is new?
[21:14]  * theloudspeaker is waiting for my younger brother to send back my old laptop so that I can help with testing.
[21:14] <guiverc> - usual support, some testing (no issues with 'force append' 1864787 or really 1914521 on hirsute, but will continue testing; esp. on 755-5 as I've mainly used 755-8 thus far)
[21:14] <guiverc> - minor discussion on lxqt with yan12125 re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxqt-config/+bug/1905947 or display.config not surviving logout/reboot who noted it's Qt that crashes (not LXQt) ..  I'm unsure what to do with this, but any clues most welcome  (do we cross fingers & hope it's resolved, or how to further explore?)
[21:14] <guiverc> nothing else I remember
[21:15] <kc2bez> We might want to wait until we get things merged for 1905947
[21:15] <kc2bez> It might be resolved
[21:15]  * guiverc has fingers crossed
[21:15] <kc2bez> same
[21:16] <kc2bez> At the very least the package will see a rebuild and compile
[21:16] <kc2bez> Thanks for working on that guiverc
[21:17] <kc2bez> I guess that leaves me.
[21:17] <kc2bez> worked on getting https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/development-for-the-week-of-february-5-11-2021/2167?u=kc2bez setup
[21:17] <kc2bez> hopefully we can use that for a template and add to it for future meetings.
[21:18] <kc2bez> worked with wxl to ceeate rQLIPPER repository.
[21:18] <kc2bez> i finished out some final release tasks for 20.04.2
[21:18] <guiverc> development for week looks great kc2bez 
 +1
[21:18] <kc2bez> We should be filling that in as we go.
[21:18] <kc2bez> !itsawiki
[21:18] <kc2bez> :D
[21:19] <guiverc> yep & ack.
[21:19] <kc2bez> of note: main Ubuntu and any flavor using ubiquity had to do a respin. There was an issue with OEM installs.
[21:19] <kc2bez> synced rLIBQTXDGPACKAGING with the archive in preparation for the Debian merge
[21:19] <kc2bez> We will want to make sure that is done on every package before we begin the merge process.
[21:20] <kc2bez> Lubuntu Council nomination period is set to end this week. I hope to get emails to the Members this weekend.
[21:20] <kc2bez> That is all I have for this week.
 thanks everyone
[21:21] <kc2bez> Anyone else, anywhere else? Questions?
[21:22] <theloudspeaker> yup
[21:22] <kc2bez> go ahead
[21:22] <theloudspeaker> should I update debian/.gitignore too?
[21:22] <guiverc> thanks Dan..   Your effort is appreciated, as is everyones.
[21:22] <theloudspeaker> many times it is updated.
[21:23] <kc2bez> which package?
[21:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> almost every one which we have merged. 
[21:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> tehy havea  debian/.gitignore
[21:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> we don't
[21:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> ** they have a
[21:23] <kc2bez> then no
[21:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay.
[21:24] <KGIII> There, caught up. You're welcome all and, again, thanks everyone. Y'all make Lubuntu awesome.
[21:24] <kc2bez> Thanks everyone for meeting!
[21:24] <wxl> oh hey
[21:24] <kc2bez> Oh hey
[21:24] <wxl> sorry chaos over here
[21:24] <kc2bez> to the front of the line you go
[21:24] <kc2bez> XD
[21:24] <wxl> here's my paste; not a lot done really https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/26V64jJ7qJ/
[21:25] <kc2bez> ummm
[21:25] <wxl> basically i went down a big qlipper rabbit hole
[21:25] <kc2bez> it was fun in a sleep deprived sort of way
[21:25] <wxl> hehehe
[21:26] <kc2bez> wxl: at some point we need to get a handle on github syncing
[21:26] <wxl> yeah i know
[21:26] <kc2bez> ok
[21:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libqtxdg FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libqtxdg/717/
[21:26] <kc2bez> Just didn't want to lose sight of it
[21:26] <wxl> we also have to make sure phab and the archive are synced
[21:27] <wxl> it is possible for things to end up on the archive that don't end up in phab
[21:27] <kc2bez> Yes
[21:27] <wxl> i mean i guess the opposite is possible too
[21:27] <kc2bez> I don't know how we avoid that without some notification for all the packages we have
[21:28] <kc2bez> It could be a daily check of some sort I suppose
[21:28] <wxl> though phab is a mirror of launchpad repos, neither of them are actual archives which are not actually git repos
[21:28] <kc2bez> right
[21:28] <wxl> i think we could automate
[21:28] <wxl> in any case looking into the near future we really really really really really need to get these merges done
[21:28] <kc2bez> noted
[21:29] <wxl> it might not be a good idea to create a best practices doc for merging to perhaps allow others to help out
[21:29] <The_LoudSpeaker> libsysstat_0.4.4-1ubuntu1_source.changes in a ppa now
[21:30] <kc2bez> Yeah, like the one we did for adding a repo
[21:30] <wxl> yep
[21:30] <wxl> so let's put our heads together on that
[21:30] <kc2bez> yup, theloudspeaker too since he has done a bunch
[21:30] <wxl> +1
[21:31] <wxl> like everything in packaging there are different approaches so having an SOP that people can deviate from is a good idea
[21:31] <The_LoudSpeaker> i will prepare a notes.lubuntu.me paste which has my steps for merges.
[21:31] <kc2bez> Nice
[21:32] <wxl> great! thank you
[21:32] <kc2bez> Throw a link to it in the task
[21:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://launchpad.net/~theloudspeaker/+archive/ubuntu/devel-packages/+build/21014032
[21:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> pushing now
[21:32] <wxl> i'd aim for an overview like the packaging tutorial rather than an enormous document
[21:33] <wxl> wow raman is our new s390x expert XD
[21:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> XD
[21:33] <kc2bez> We need to get him a s390 for the house
[21:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> if anyone asks me what to do about s390x I am gonna point then to a paste that has only one line: Follow what wxl did.
[21:34] <kc2bez> Anything else wxl ?
[21:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> kc2bez: yeah please. that would be awesome. I have never used s390x. would be fun. used all arm achitecures and 32/64 bit ones but s390x is something else only.
[21:35] <wxl> hahah no
[21:35] <kc2bez> ok
[21:35] <wxl> one other thing: does anyone else need any help?
[21:35] <kc2bez> It would be cool to have someone run through T58 test. I can get that uploaded if we are ok with it.
[21:36] <wxl> i'll get to that relatively soon
[21:36] <kc2bez> I know Leo did but another might be nice
[21:36] <kc2bez> sounds good 
[21:36] <wxl> that's a good task for anyone really, though
[21:36] <kc2bez> yes
[21:37]  * guiverc reading t58
[21:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rLIBSYSSTATPACKAGING11e1b104a5f4: New upstream version.] The_LoudSpeaker (Raman Sarda) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLIBSYSSTATPACKAGING11e1b104a5f4
[21:37] <kc2bez> It actually takes longer to install because we remove a slew of packages that we copy over
 i have done several further tests on T58 as well
[21:37] <kc2bez> cool
[21:38] <kc2bez> Once done it is snappy to boot though
 very fast..
[21:38] <guiverc> I'll endeavour to test it.. but currently worried I'll not get around to it, so feel free to remind me
[21:38] <kc2bez> no worries
[21:38] <wxl> @KGIII: ^ that might be a good one for you, too
[21:39] <wxl> keep going raman!
[21:39] <KGIII> Got a direct link to this T58 critter? That's the one where you start the live ISO, add a repo, and then do a minimum installation?
[21:39] <wxl> isn't libfm-qt done?
[21:39] <guiverc> https://phab.lubuntu.me/T58 KGIII 
[21:39] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Medium, Open] consider minimal install: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T58
[21:40] <guiverc> & yep KGIII 
[21:40] <kc2bez> did it build wxl
[21:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> i will take leave now. pretty much satisfied with the work we got in today. 2 merges. Although I ended up scrolling fb for an hour when I was booting my pc and was late to start. :P
[21:40] <wxl> add the repo and update the package :)
[21:40] <KGIII> I may be quiet, but that doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. ;-)
[21:40] <wxl> good job raman! let's do it without social media next time!
[21:41] <KGIII> I'll see if I can get a test done this evening. Will someone be around if I have questions?
[21:41] <kc2bez> LoL
[21:41] <kc2bez> sure will
[21:41] <KGIII> Alright. I'll check it out after dinner.
[21:41] <wxl> i'm generally around and if you ping me i'll pick it up on the phone if not
[21:41] <kc2bez> same here
[21:41] <The_LoudSpeaker> i already uninstalled fb. such occurences have been increasing lately.
[21:42] <wxl> there's an fb appliccation???
[21:42] <kc2bez> for the phone, yeah
[21:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> yes you old potato
[21:42] <wxl> i deleted facebook so long ago i don't even remember
[21:43] <kc2bez> First app I removed on my phone XD
[21:43] <wxl> alright well good meet all and thanks for the hard work
[21:44] <kc2bez> thanks to you as well wxl
[21:44] <wxl> np
[21:45] <KGIII> This is the correct PPA: https://launchpad.net/~kc2bez/+archive/ubuntu/testing
[21:45] <kc2bez> yes
[21:45] <KGIII> So, add that, update, and then install and pick minimal install?
[21:45] <kc2bez> yup, that should do it
[21:46] <KGIII> That won't be a problem. I'll do a test tonight.
[21:46] <kc2bez> A regular install might be good too just for sanity
[21:46] <KGIII> I can do both. I will have time.
[21:46] <kc2bez> Fantastic
[21:47] <KGIII> Where do I report my findings?
[21:47] <wxl> on the task
[21:47] <wxl> like leo did
[21:47] <KGIII> Excellent. Just making sure.
[21:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T187: Lubuntu 20.04.2] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T187#4239
[21:47] <guiverc> thank you KGIII (and thank you @Leokolb for already testing it!)
[21:48] <KGIII> No problem. 
[21:49] <KGIII> When I started, I agreed to test *just* 21.04 for the duration of the testing process. Methinks I'll stick around a while longer. I am learning a lot and it's kinda fun.
[21:49] <guiverc> :)
[21:49] <wxl> glad you're enjoying yourself KGIII :)
[21:49] <KGIII> I enjoy learning new things and trying new things. So, it's all good.
[21:50] <kc2bez> That is great, it is good to have you here. It really does help.
[21:52] <KGIII> You don't need to butter me up, I already said I'd test it! ;-)
[21:52] <kc2bez> hahaha
[21:53] <kc2bez> I wasn't :D
[21:53] <KGIII> LOL I'll get to it after dinner. It'll give me something to do. The wife is used to me poking buttons for long hours. Speaking of dinner, I should probably start making it.
[22:08] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libqtxdg FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libqtxdg/718/
[22:09] <KGIII> So far so good. Meaning I got the missus to make dinner. I do the overwhelming majority of cooking. I enjoy it.
[22:12] <KGIII> Silly question... Would this minimal install work for 20.04?
[22:13] <kc2bez> I think so, maybe.
[22:13] <KGIII> I may have to test that on bare metal. I am still not upgraded beyond 18.04 on my two main systems. Yes, I know my shame...
[22:14] <kc2bez> Well, it would have to be repackaged for focal
[22:14] <KGIII> Hmm... Well, if it works and you ever get time... Though I should probably do full installs so that I can support people better, now that I think about it.
[22:15] <kc2bez> but the basics just remove a list of packages it could be done on a first boot too
[22:15] <kc2bez> It actually purges them and does an autoremove
[22:15] <KGIII> I'm doing the first reboot after the minimal install.
[22:16] <kc2bez> cool
[22:16] <KGIII> Ah, that's one way of doing it.
[22:16] <kc2bez> Nukes it from orbit so to speak
[22:16] <kc2bez> XD
[22:17] <KGIII> So far so good.
[22:17] <kc2bez> nice that sounds promising
[22:18] <KGIII> You want a full install test done as well?
[22:19] <kc2bez> It might be good, just to make sure I didn't botch something there.
[22:19] <KGIII> Gotcha... Gimme a few minutes.
[22:19] <kc2bez> It should be fine but...
[22:22] <kc2bez> wxl: do we want a new post for the new development week? I think yes but I want to see what you think.
[22:23] <wxl> yeah we should
[22:23] <kc2bez> Perfect, I will get on it
[22:24] <wxl> thx
[22:24] <KGIII> It is a little unclear. To do a full install - just do NOT select minimum install?
[22:25] <kc2bez> Ok, i was wondering how we felt about that. Yes, to answer your question.
[22:26] <kc2bez> I shall endeavor to find a more concise way to get through that
[22:27] <KGIII> It's a little unclear. I guessed right, but that was a guess. Some text saying, "Make no selection to do a full install" might work.
[22:27] <kc2bez> Yup, I will see where I can add something like that.
[22:27] <KGIII> It's zooming right along doing the full install as we speak.
[22:28] <wxl> wow that surfacego problem worked out THANK GOD XD
[22:28] <kc2bez> Amazing, those are a pain in Linux.
[22:29] <wxl> i'm shocked, amazed and delighted that a total linux noob (i had to explain case sensitivity) was able to figure that out
[22:30] <kc2bez> It is the sort of experience that will keep them around though.
[22:30] <wxl> thing is what is killernetworking.com?????
[22:31] <wxl> oh it's actually the manufacturer? bizarre
[22:31] <kc2bez> Interesting
[22:32] <wxl> i guess it's just some fancy branding on top of a qualcomm atheros chip
[22:32] <wxl> or something
[22:32] <wxl> cuz lspci doesn't report anything odd
[22:33] <kc2bez> I wonder if it is USB
[22:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T58: consider minimal install] KGIII (David G) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T58#4241
[22:34] <KGIII> It's an 80/20 split. 80% of the time I know what you're talking about. 20% of the time I'm pretty sure you're speaking gibberish! Anyhow, both test were successful with satisfactory results.
[22:35] <KGIII> Now that I know how to do it, feel free to ping me again if you need more testing.
[22:35] <kc2bez> Thanks KGIII
[22:36] <KGIII> 'Snot a problem. It doesn't take too long to test them both, much less time than to do the daily live testing. With the live testing, I open everything and check everything. That can eat up some time. This isn't so time consuming.
[22:36] <wxl> KGIII: i think we want to be as user-friendly as possible so if you feel like you don't understand something, that may be an indication of something we need to fix, so please point it out!
[22:37] <kc2bez> Absolutely, I will make some adjustments based on your feedback. That really helps.
[22:38] <KGIII> Will do, though I try to not interrupt. I'm here far more often than you might think - I just don't say anything. Or at least i flip over here and catch up with what was said.
[22:38] <KGIII> I think next week I'm going to learn more about packaging. I even have a project in mind.
[22:47] <wxl> nice!
[22:48] <wxl> the best thing to do is start with some little test package and put it in a ppa. 
[22:48] <wxl> that way you don't need any special access to upload and you can't screw anything up
[22:48] <wxl> plus if you start simple, the better
[22:49] <wxl> there's a couple packages that are good examples here, like hello-world or anarchism
[22:49] <wxl> !info anarchism
[22:49] <wxl> ^ it's just text, really
[22:51] <KGIII> Hmm... Thanks, I'll probably have a ton of questions. I figure I'll *try* to package and maintain a package for Midori. Though I'd double check. The last time I looked there wasn't one being maintained. I don't even use the browser, but it's always simple to build and seemed like a helpful thing to package. 
[22:51] <KGIII> Should I ask the devs if they care if I package it? 
[22:52] <KGIII> It's opensource, after all. I figure I can do that if I want to.
[23:01] <wxl> they won't care if you do
[23:01] <wxl> i'm sure you already know midori is in the repos and that you just want something to cut your teeth on
[23:04] <KGIII> Yup, though the one in the repo is pretty much never the current version - or historically hasn't been.
[23:04] <KGIII> I figure it's a simple project, plus it's never the right version. They sporadically (or someone sporadically) will update it and keep it updated for a little while and then it gets forgotten again. 
[23:06] <wxl> i can't quite figure it out
[23:07] <wxl> oh nevermind i think i got it
[23:07] <wxl> they're on 9
[23:07] <wxl> we're on 7
[23:07] <wxl> and so is debian
[23:07] <KGIII> Yeah, it's never/seldom the most updated version. It's also sporadic, like they care for a little while and then just forget about it.
[23:08] <KGIII> So, it'll make a nice little PPA for me to practice with.
[23:08] <wxl> the last upload was from someone who wasn't the maintainer about a year after the maintainer  did a version
[23:09] <wxl> i will say you will likely run into some challenges
[23:09] <wxl> you really might want to start simple first
[23:09] <KGIII> LOL More simple than that?
[23:09] <wxl> like i said, going with something that doesn't even need to be compiled would give you a really good idea of the basics of packaging
[23:10] <wxl> and then you can do an actual piece of software and run into all the other caveats :)
[23:10] <KGIII> Ah, alright. Well, I'll try the anarchism first and see how that goes.
[23:10] <wxl> it's important to remember that packages are a lot of things but one of the things they are is automated compilation instructions and if you've done any sort of compiling you know you can run into all sorts of fun stuff
[23:11] <KGIII> That's why I picked Midori - it compiles easily and I've never had an issue compiling it.
[23:11] <wxl> luckily you don't need to make a brand new package from scratch. that's a lot harder. but still
[23:11] <wxl> the debian policy manual is your friend. you can find the answer to (most) questions there
[23:12] <KGIII> Oh, man... That's a lot of reading.
[23:12] <KGIII> I still haven't finished the freedesktop stuff. :/
[23:12] <kc2bez[m]> policy manual is good reading, tough to put it down
[23:13] <KGIII> LOL I'll add it to my to-read list. 
[23:13]  * KGIII sighs
[23:13] <kc2bez[m]> Lol
[23:13] <KGIII> It's a good thing I bought a giant external drive for Lubuntu stuff.
[23:14] <wxl> hehehe
[23:15] <KGIII> Alright, it's time to eat. I'll probably return.
[23:15] <wxl> i would look at the debian policy manual like the constitution. you can do pretty well with a general understanding, but every now and then you really need to read the fine print and think carefully.
[23:15] <wxl> and, of course, it's ALWAYS better if you know it inside and out, but that may be asking a lot.
[23:18] <kc2bez[m]> It is like most "reference" material. After you get the hang of it you know where to find what you are looking for. 
[23:53] <guiverc> thanks KGIII for all your thorough testing !