/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2021/02/27/#kubuntu-devel.txt

BluesKajHi folks12:50
Eickmeyer[m]RikMills, @Santa I'm here.15:40
IrcsomeBot<Santa> hi15:40
Eickmeyer[m]Any further thoughts about yesterday's discussion?15:41
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I need to do something else atm (not urgent), so please if Rik appears ping me again :)15:41
Eickmeyer[m]Ok. :)15:41
IrcsomeBot<Santa> if he doesn't come because he's busy or something I can give you some thoughts anyway ;)15:42
Eickmeyer[m]Ok. :)15:42
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I will leave this thing here in the meantime...15:55
IrcsomeBot<Santa> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw15:55
Eickmeyer[m]Oooo! Good stuff!16:06
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/i2wqil0V/file_42020.mp416:18
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ok great16:27
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Hey @RikMills !16:27
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I'm here for you know, let me check the conversation above and the mail...16:28
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ok I've just did a quick check16:29
IrcsomeBot<Santa> some things @Eickmeyer :16:30
IrcsomeBot<Santa> to "summarize" your mail you are familiar with ubuntu/debian packaging, correct?16:31
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Santa I'm a MOTU. Kindof have to be. I also lead Ubuntu Studio.16:31
IrcsomeBot<Santa> sure, that's fine, also another question: have you used Kubuntu Automation in any of your packaging activities?16:32
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I have not.16:32
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ok, so I see you already discussed the PPA / general strategy to do the thing, so that's ok16:33
IrcsomeBot<Santa> so I would like to propose, if that's possible and that's ok with you both, that @Eickmeyer does the next frameworks staging, as an exercise to learn Kubuntu Automation, and do the things following the way of the great Mandalore, since we're all Manadalorians here16:35
IrcsomeBot<Santa> * Mandalorians16:35
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Ok, so how is that done? (I take it we're not going to get to the PPA thing anytime soon based on that)16:36
IrcsomeBot<Santa> the idea is that you would use KA (Kubuntu Automation) to deploy the packages to our staging PPA (that would be next weekend or the week starting 8 feb), and after that, start with the backports16:39
IrcsomeBot<Santa> the main point of KA is helping the packager save time when doing new releases, backports, etc16:40
IrcsomeBot<Santa> let me find some info...16:40
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Oh, ok. I was just writing a script to get everything from Neon's repo, strip the neon-related stuff, add a changelog entry with the proper version, build a source package, and dput it. Reason: don't want to reinvent the wheel.16:42
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> We are not Neon, and their packaging is now too diverged to be compatible with ours16:43
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Well, obviously, but I know how to fix that.16:44
IrcsomeBot<Santa> it's true that you would need some adjustments16:44
IrcsomeBot<Santa> https://kubuntu-automation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/16:47
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ↑ docs16:47
IrcsomeBot<Santa> https://phabricator.kde.org/w/kubuntu/black-operations/slice/16:48
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> That all actually looks pretty straightforward.16:48
IrcsomeBot<Santa> https://gitlab.com/jmsantamaria-papers/kubuntu-automation-design/raw/master/kubuntu_automation_design.pdf16:49
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ↑ this is a document (outdated, but still interesting IMHO) about the Kubuntu Automation design16:49
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I see that.16:50
IrcsomeBot<Santa> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwlzLZaZ5A16:51
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ↑ this is a tritemio demo, with KA in action16:51
IrcsomeBot<Santa> so...16:51
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> FYI, just in case it's relevant, I stray away from using gdb since it tends to be buggy sometimes. I typically just use straight git/pristine-tar commands to accomplish the same things without issues.16:52
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I guess you meant git-buildpackage not gdb the debugger?16:53
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Oh, yes, sorry.16:53
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> gbp16:53
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Like I said, I don't use it.16:54
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ok, in any case, the gbp-* commands we have in KA call git-buildpackage with a set of options so it plays well with our use case16:55
IrcsomeBot<Santa> and I also think they could be modified to not use git-buildpackage, but that's the way we have it at the moment16:56
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Ok, as long as it works. I've seen gbp freak-out by saying stuff is modified against the source tarball when it's not.16:56
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ah, you won't have that kind of problems, but you may find others16:56
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Ok.16:57
IrcsomeBot<Santa> in any case, my idea would be, first of all, work with you so you can get familiar with the tools rather than writing scripts from scratch16:57
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Ok, that's fair.16:58
IrcsomeBot<Santa> so... for the things you are going to do, KA might need some adjustments bugfixing16:58
IrcsomeBot<Santa> but in my opinion, that person-hours invesment would pay off16:59
IrcsomeBot<Santa> * investment16:59
IrcsomeBot<Santa> and it looks better to me than writing scripts from scratch16:59
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Sure. I do need to clear that with my employer on that since it's a time investment that's tangental to working on things that directly affect focal.17:00
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Basically, the Kubuntu Focus uses only the LTS because, being an enterprise-focused laptop, we support enterprise software that only works on LTS.17:01
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Such as Nvidia's deep learning.17:02
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ack17:02
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> So, the problem is that importing the next frameworks wouldn't necessarily affect Focal, but it might be a means to an end.17:03
IrcsomeBot<Santa> sure, my idea of that is just "exercise to learn KA", like I mentioned above17:05
IrcsomeBot<Santa> also, keep in mind that they are not just scripts to deploy the packages to a PPA/archive, there's also some information tools to check some "must have" adjustments in the packages17:06
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that makes sense.17:07
IrcsomeBot<Santa> that being said: example of some of problems we might find17:07
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> I am doing some other stuff while you talk. I will respond to a ping though17:08
IrcsomeBot<Santa> with git-clone-all you could clone all the neon repos (if you want to do that) but since we don't do that a lot, maybe it fails for one or 2 packages17:09
IrcsomeBot<Santa> (that's just a guess)17:09
IrcsomeBot<Santa> that being said, while I do the KA things in my free time, I have some pending vacation in my paid work17:10
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Nah, it was based on apt-get source.17:11
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Ok, well, I'll need some help, typically during the workdays, on getting set-up with all this stuff.17:11
IrcsomeBot<Santa> so if you decide to use KA to do your packaging stuff, I could try to take some days off and help you in vacation with bugs or whatever, since I did a significant part of the code17:12
IrcsomeBot<Santa> and while I'm not on vacation we could arrange 1 hour or 2 per day to give you support if that's possible17:12
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Sure.17:13
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> If you want to basically rebuild Neon in ppa, why not just rebase on Neon?17:13
IrcsomeBot<Santa> that being said, I think this next week (minus Feb 1) I will be on vacation17:13
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> You mean, minus Feb 1?17:14
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills Because we're "Kubuntu" Focus, not Neon Focus.17:14
IrcsomeBot<Santa> March 117:14
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> We both messed up the date, Santa . (I need more coffee!)17:15
IrcsomeBot<Santa> well, also I think the other dates I gave are March, not Feb XDD17:16
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> so backporting the hirsute packaging sounds the better option. which makes sense as you can just make new branches17:16
IrcsomeBot<Santa> we are all need more coffe17:16
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills For some reason, I'm sensing some hostility from you on this idea. I'm just trying to help. :(17:16
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> @Eickmeyer, I am not intending that, believe me :)17:16
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I do. I know you better than that.17:17
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I did think of doing it using "backportpackage", but then there might be some intervention needed since typically, in hirsute, debhelper-compat=13 while Focal only has 12.17:18
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills ^17:18
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ahh17:18
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> That is giving Neon some headaches as well IIRC17:19
IrcsomeBot<Santa> @Eickmeyer we could make a "check-and-fix" script to handle that in KA ;)17:19
IrcsomeBot<Santa> so you could run "do-all <script> <debhelper version>" to apply the change to all the packages17:19
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> ```[14:49:25] <sitter> JonathanRiddell-: I keep forgetting. what was the verdict on backporting newer debhelper? … [14:49:58] <JonathanRiddell-> I'm too scared to do it was my verdict … [14:50:11] <JonathanRiddell-> if something needs compat 13 I just change it to 12 and I've had no issues with that so far```17:20
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> That's why I was just going to grab the sources from Neon and rebuild them because they've already done the heavy lifting.17:20
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills Yeah, that's what I've done, just change compat to 12 and it works.17:20
IrcsomeBot<Santa> yeah, or backporting debhelper if it's not already backported17:20
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> It's not, @Santa, and much like Jonathan, I'm too scared to do that.17:20
IrcsomeBot<Santa> alright, I could try to help you with the other change then17:21
IrcsomeBot<Santa> should be easy to do17:22
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Cool.17:22
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Does Erich require access to deino.kde.org ?17:27
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Looks like I'll need access to a *BUNCH* of things.17:27
IrcsomeBot<Santa> @RikMills if you can give him access I think that would be nice17:28
IrcsomeBot<Santa> this way he would be able to configure KA with the KDE sftp and access the pre-release in case he does the next frameworks staging17:28
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> @Santa, I can't. Only KDE sysadmins are to do that now. Needs a ticket raised with them. Which is why I ask17:29
IrcsomeBot<Santa> aha, if you know how to do that these days, please go ahead17:29
IrcsomeBot<Santa> he's alrady a MOTU so he is suposed to be trusted17:29
IrcsomeBot<Santa> * already17:30
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> I'll need to know the ssh key17:30
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills It's on my launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer17:30
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> cool. that makes it easy :)17:31
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Whether or not the Kubuntu PPAs are used, or they go in their own project, I will ask Harald if it is ok to add to kubuntu-ninjas17:32
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> As needs agreement of 2 people from kubuntu-dev, and is still one17:32
IrcsomeBot<Santa> one of these years I should apply17:33
IrcsomeBot<Santa> srlsy17:33
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I wanted to do it a long time ago but ENOTIME17:33
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Y10fapoV/file_42021.mp417:33
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Took me forever to apply for MOTU.17:34
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Again, E:NOTIME17:34
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Then it became part of my job and boss was like, "E:MAKETIME"17:34
IrcsomeBot<Santa> haha17:35
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> @Eickmeyer you have 2 ssh keys there. I assume you want both added?17:36
IrcsomeBot* Eickmeyer checks17:36
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I need to "leave" you for 5-10 mins, brb to finish the "meeting"17:36
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills Nah, just the erich-Inspiron-5576 one. That MacBook one is long gone.17:37
IrcsomeBot* Eickmeyer goes to delete it17:37
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Ok. Also do you have a KDE identity account?17:37
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I do. Lemme find it...17:37
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> https://identity.kde.org/index.php?r=people/view&uid=eickmeyer17:38
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Ok, can you see if you can login to https://phabricator.kde.org/ ?17:40
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Then I think I can subscribe you to the ticket once I have made it17:40
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills Yep, I can.17:42
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> Found you on there. Says email not verified17:43
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> :/17:44
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> @RikMills Done.17:44
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> No sure if it would have mattered for this, but hey :)17:44
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Needed to be done regardless.17:45
IrcsomeBot<Santa> ok, so ...17:51
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> So uh....17:52
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> https://phabricator.kde.org/T1416117:52
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Sweet.17:52
IrcsomeBot<Santa> I can't promise, but tomorrow I could try to show you how I would do the debhelper 13 -> 12 thing for all the packages @Eickmeyer17:52
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I can't promise either, Santa . I try to reserve Saturdays and Sundays to be with my family.17:53
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> I took an extra exception to this morning because I'm also working on some Ubuntu Studio related stuff.17:53
IrcsomeBot<Santa> sure, I would just give you a video or pastebin, so you can see it whenever it's convenient for you17:54
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Sounds good. :)17:55
IrcsomeBot<Santa> that being said, I think I already shared all my thinking about this, if you need anything else from me, just give me a telegram ping17:56
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Will do. :)17:56
RikMillssitter: would you agree to adding Eickmeyer[m] to kubuntu-ninjas team? He is Ubuntu Studio lead, and MOTU in case you did not know17:59
IrcsomeBot<RikMills> I guess may have to wait until Monday for an answer to that one. Policy says I can't just grant that on my own.21:41

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