[12:50] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills, @Santa I'm here.
 hi
[15:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> Any further thoughts about yesterday's discussion?
 I need to do something else atm (not urgent), so please if Rik appears ping me again :)
[15:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok. :)
 if he doesn't come because he's busy or something I can give you some thoughts anyway ;)
[15:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok. :)
 I will leave this thing here in the meantime...
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOC8E8z_ifw
[16:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oooo! Good stuff!
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/i2wqil0V/file_42020.mp4
 ok great
 Hey @RikMills !
 I'm here for you know, let me check the conversation above and the mail...
 ok I've just did a quick check
 some things @Eickmeyer :
 to "summarize" your mail you are familiar with ubuntu/debian packaging, correct?
 Santa I'm a MOTU. Kindof have to be. I also lead Ubuntu Studio.
 sure, that's fine, also another question: have you used Kubuntu Automation in any of your packaging activities?
 I have not.
 ok, so I see you already discussed the PPA / general strategy to do the thing, so that's ok
 so I would like to propose, if that's possible and that's ok with you both, that @Eickmeyer does the next frameworks staging, as an exercise to learn Kubuntu Automation, and do the things following the way of the great Mandalore, since we're all Manadalorians here
 * Mandalorians
 Ok, so how is that done? (I take it we're not going to get to the PPA thing anytime soon based on that)
 the idea is that you would use KA (Kubuntu Automation) to deploy the packages to our staging PPA (that would be next weekend or the week starting 8 feb), and after that, start with the backports
 the main point of KA is helping the packager save time when doing new releases, backports, etc
 let me find some info...
 Oh, ok. I was just writing a script to get everything from Neon's repo, strip the neon-related stuff, add a changelog entry with the proper version, build a source package, and dput it. Reason: don't want to reinvent the wheel.
 We are not Neon, and their packaging is now too diverged to be compatible with ours
 Well, obviously, but I know how to fix that.
 it's true that you would need some adjustments
 https://kubuntu-automation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
 ↑ docs
 https://phabricator.kde.org/w/kubuntu/black-operations/slice/
 That all actually looks pretty straightforward.
 https://gitlab.com/jmsantamaria-papers/kubuntu-automation-design/raw/master/kubuntu_automation_design.pdf
 ↑ this is a document (outdated, but still interesting IMHO) about the Kubuntu Automation design
 I see that.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwlzLZaZ5A
 ↑ this is a tritemio demo, with KA in action
 so...
 FYI, just in case it's relevant, I stray away from using gdb since it tends to be buggy sometimes. I typically just use straight git/pristine-tar commands to accomplish the same things without issues.
 I guess you meant git-buildpackage not gdb the debugger?
 Oh, yes, sorry.
 gbp
 Like I said, I don't use it.
 ok, in any case, the gbp-* commands we have in KA call git-buildpackage with a set of options so it plays well with our use case
 and I also think they could be modified to not use git-buildpackage, but that's the way we have it at the moment
 Ok, as long as it works. I've seen gbp freak-out by saying stuff is modified against the source tarball when it's not.
 ah, you won't have that kind of problems, but you may find others
 Ok.
 in any case, my idea would be, first of all, work with you so you can get familiar with the tools rather than writing scripts from scratch
 Ok, that's fair.
 so... for the things you are going to do, KA might need some adjustments bugfixing
 but in my opinion, that person-hours invesment would pay off
 * investment
 and it looks better to me than writing scripts from scratch
 Sure. I do need to clear that with my employer on that since it's a time investment that's tangental to working on things that directly affect focal.
 Basically, the Kubuntu Focus uses only the LTS because, being an enterprise-focused laptop, we support enterprise software that only works on LTS.
 Such as Nvidia's deep learning.
 ack
 So, the problem is that importing the next frameworks wouldn't necessarily affect Focal, but it might be a means to an end.
 sure, my idea of that is just "exercise to learn KA", like I mentioned above
 also, keep in mind that they are not just scripts to deploy the packages to a PPA/archive, there's also some information tools to check some "must have" adjustments in the packages
 Yeah, that makes sense.
 that being said: example of some of problems we might find
 I am doing some other stuff while you talk. I will respond to a ping though
 with git-clone-all you could clone all the neon repos (if you want to do that) but since we don't do that a lot, maybe it fails for one or 2 packages
 (that's just a guess)
 that being said, while I do the KA things in my free time, I have some pending vacation in my paid work
 Nah, it was based on apt-get source.
 Ok, well, I'll need some help, typically during the workdays, on getting set-up with all this stuff.
 so if you decide to use KA to do your packaging stuff, I could try to take some days off and help you in vacation with bugs or whatever, since I did a significant part of the code
 and while I'm not on vacation we could arrange 1 hour or 2 per day to give you support if that's possible
 Sure.
 If you want to basically rebuild Neon in ppa, why not just rebase on Neon?
 that being said, I think this next week (minus Feb 1) I will be on vacation
 You mean, minus Feb 1?
 @RikMills Because we're "Kubuntu" Focus, not Neon Focus.
 March 1
 We both messed up the date, Santa . (I need more coffee!)
 well, also I think the other dates I gave are March, not Feb XDD
 so backporting the hirsute packaging sounds the better option. which makes sense as you can just make new branches
 we are all need more coffe
 @RikMills For some reason, I'm sensing some hostility from you on this idea. I'm just trying to help. :(
 @Eickmeyer, I am not intending that, believe me :)
 I do. I know you better than that.
 I did think of doing it using "backportpackage", but then there might be some intervention needed since typically, in hirsute, debhelper-compat=13 while Focal only has 12.
 @RikMills ^
 ahh
 That is giving Neon some headaches as well IIRC
 @Eickmeyer we could make a "check-and-fix" script to handle that in KA ;)
 so you could run "do-all <script> <debhelper version>" to apply the change to all the packages
 ```[14:49:25] <sitter> JonathanRiddell-: I keep forgetting. what was the verdict on backporting newer debhelper? … [14:49:58] <JonathanRiddell-> I'm too scared to do it was my verdict … [14:50:11] <JonathanRiddell-> if something needs compat 13 I just change it to 12 and I've had no issues with that so far```
 That's why I was just going to grab the sources from Neon and rebuild them because they've already done the heavy lifting.
 @RikMills Yeah, that's what I've done, just change compat to 12 and it works.
 yeah, or backporting debhelper if it's not already backported
 It's not, @Santa, and much like Jonathan, I'm too scared to do that.
 alright, I could try to help you with the other change then
 should be easy to do
 Cool.
 Does Erich require access to deino.kde.org ?
 Looks like I'll need access to a *BUNCH* of things.
 @RikMills if you can give him access I think that would be nice
 this way he would be able to configure KA with the KDE sftp and access the pre-release in case he does the next frameworks staging
 @Santa, I can't. Only KDE sysadmins are to do that now. Needs a ticket raised with them. Which is why I ask
 aha, if you know how to do that these days, please go ahead
 he's alrady a MOTU so he is suposed to be trusted
 * already
 I'll need to know the ssh key
 @RikMills It's on my launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer
 cool. that makes it easy :)
 Whether or not the Kubuntu PPAs are used, or they go in their own project, I will ask Harald if it is ok to add to kubuntu-ninjas
 As needs agreement of 2 people from kubuntu-dev, and is still one
 one of these years I should apply
 srlsy
 I wanted to do it a long time ago but ENOTIME
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Y10fapoV/file_42021.mp4
 Took me forever to apply for MOTU.
 Again, E:NOTIME
 Then it became part of my job and boss was like, "E:MAKETIME"
 haha
 @Eickmeyer you have 2 ssh keys there. I assume you want both added?
 I need to "leave" you for 5-10 mins, brb to finish the "meeting"
 @RikMills Nah, just the erich-Inspiron-5576 one. That MacBook one is long gone.
 Ok. Also do you have a KDE identity account?
 I do. Lemme find it...
 https://identity.kde.org/index.php?r=people/view&uid=eickmeyer
 Ok, can you see if you can login to https://phabricator.kde.org/ ?
 Then I think I can subscribe you to the ticket once I have made it
 @RikMills Yep, I can.
 Found you on there. Says email not verified
 :/
 @RikMills Done.
 No sure if it would have mattered for this, but hey :)
 Needed to be done regardless.
 ok, so ...
 So uh....
 https://phabricator.kde.org/T14161
 Sweet.
 I can't promise, but tomorrow I could try to show you how I would do the debhelper 13 -> 12 thing for all the packages @Eickmeyer
 I can't promise either, Santa . I try to reserve Saturdays and Sundays to be with my family.
 I took an extra exception to this morning because I'm also working on some Ubuntu Studio related stuff.
 sure, I would just give you a video or pastebin, so you can see it whenever it's convenient for you
 Sounds good. :)
 that being said, I think I already shared all my thinking about this, if you need anything else from me, just give me a telegram ping
 Will do. :)
[17:59] <RikMills> sitter: would you agree to adding Eickmeyer[m] to kubuntu-ninjas team? He is Ubuntu Studio lead, and MOTU in case you did not know
 I guess may have to wait until Monday for an answer to that one. Policy says I can't just grant that on my own.