[00:51] <Kraus> Could someone remind me where the jack config files are located? The one that names bridges and sources and sinks?
[00:52] <Kraus> If memory serves, it was a py file?
[00:54] <Kraus> Think it involved jackd ... it's been a few months, I'm sorry.
[00:57] <tomreyn> i do not know the answer to your question, Kraus, but maybe running    dpkg -L    against some of the jack packages you have installed (   apt list --installed *jack*  ) can hint on the configuration location.
[01:00] <tomreyn> e.g. the jackd2 package provides a /usr/share/jackd/audio.conf file https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/amd64/jackd2/filelist (though that's really an uncommon, if not right-out wrong, location)
[01:01] <tomreyn> it might be that this just serves as a template which is overridden by another compy placed somewhere into /etc/jack* or /etc/default/jack*
[01:02] <Kraus> Pretty sure it was a python file..
[01:03] <Kraus> In lieu of there not being a way to specify output channels, I had to insert a couple lines in the code, twice (in two locations) to tell Jack there are 4 output channels.
[01:04] <Kraus> The devs said they would probably add this feature in the next major release.
[01:04] <Kraus> Aaaactually I think I'm asking the wrong channel. I should ask #jack.. That's where they originally told me! Sorry, be back in a bit.
[01:05] <tomreyn> good luck
[01:28] <Kraus> ... Or was it pacmd ....
[01:37] <Kraus> YES... I forgot!
[02:51] <Kraus> Nope.. nope, still nothing.. can't remember what file it was.. or whether it was a jack for or ubuntu controls file.. damnit
[03:32] <Kraus> Alright.. I found one piece.. it's a python file called autojack that OvenWerks made. I have a copy of that in my backup folder now.. but I see nowhere in the file where I labeled my channels (front-left, front-right, rear-left, rear-right) ... so that means there must be another file where they were defined... and I can't remember what it was...
[05:02] <OvenWerks> Kraus: you are looking for the pactl command I think.
[05:02] <OvenWerks> back in a while... gotta fry some shrimp
[06:02] <OvenWerks> Kraus: so far as I know, pulse does a pretty good job of labeling channels depending on the number.
[06:05] <OvenWerks> Kraus: 1 = mono, 2 = front-left and right, 3 = frontleft and right plus either centre or Lf (can't remember), 4 = front left and right and rear left and right, 5= same as 4 plus lf, 6 = same as 4 plus centre and LF
[06:05] <OvenWerks> anything higher adds aux1, 2, etc.
[06:41] <Kraus> Oh hey OvenWerks :)
[06:42] <Kraus> I remember I specifically had to define the channels and their respective names within some kinda file.
[06:42] <Kraus> And it's making me paranoid because I know if I just let it slide, I'm going to be in a world of hurt once I have the new system installed and don't have it ready.
[06:44] <Kraus> There was... some place.. where I had to literally define what I wanted the channels called.
[06:46] <Kraus> I know of the command you're talking about, though. But if memory serves, ubuntu studio controls overrides whatever pulse command I give .. I think either when I rebooted or when I reloaded jack or something.. there was some file where I use the channel_map parameter.
[06:47] <OvenWerks>    /etc/pulse/ has 4 files in it maybe one of them?
[06:47] <Kraus> I just wish I had written down all the steps I did last September.
[06:47] <Kraus> Let me see...
[06:48] <Kraus> client.conf  client.conf.d  daemon.conf  default.pa  system.pa
[06:49] <Kraus> I recall looking at this page while figuring things out: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/Modules/
[06:49] <Kraus> channel_map
[06:49] <Kraus>     Channel map. A list of comma-separated channel names. The currently defined channel names are: left, right, mono, center, front-left, front-right, front-center, rear-center, rear-left, rear-right, lfe, subwoofer, front-left-of-center, front-right-of-center, side-left, side-right, aux0, aux1 to aux15, top-center, top-front-left, top-front-right, top-front-center, top-rear-left, top-rear-right, top-rear-center, (Default depends on
[06:49] <Kraus> the number of channels and the driver)
[06:49] <OvenWerks> yeah, that can be set with pactl command while loading the jack sink module
[06:50] <Kraus> Right.
[06:50] <Kraus> Maaaaybe it was that command in conjunction with autojack
[06:50] <Kraus> In other words, maybe autojack set the number of channels.. then I mapped them out? I do have a few commands of that in my bash_history
[06:51] <Kraus> What I can't remember is if I did those commands before or after you taught me about autojack.
[06:51] <OvenWerks> if autojack is set not to create your bridge then it can be created after in a script
[06:52] <Kraus> I remember I attempted to do pacmd but then discovered studio controls would undo my command... but I'm seeing two sets of attempts..
[06:53] <Kraus> I'm proud of myself.. after plenty of searching, it was me who finally remembered autojack was located in /usr/bin/ :)
[06:53] <OvenWerks> The default map only goes up to 6 and then default to the rest aux. (I have an ice1712 based devices which shows 8)
[06:54] <OvenWerks> yup, that is where it is. feel free to hack the part that starts your bridge.
[06:54] <Kraus> Yeah, already did that last year...
[06:54] <Kraus> at least I think.
[06:54] <Kraus> I can show you all that I have in there
[06:54] <OvenWerks>  if bridge == mybridge:
[06:55] <OvenWerks> bridge command
[06:55] <OvenWerks> else:
[06:55] <OvenWerks> normal bridge command
[06:55] <OvenWerks> The hard part really would be the GUI
[06:55] <Kraus> I have a very distinct memory of me putting the channel_map into a file, though..
[06:56] <Kraus> Is there a way I can have bash search for all files containing the string "channel_map" on my harddrive?
[06:56] <OvenWerks> Yeah, there is another place
[06:57] <Kraus> And I'd love to learn how to work on that GUI like I said I would. :) Life just took hold of me and I eventually forgot.
[06:59] <OvenWerks> maybe in /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/profile-sets?
[06:59] <Kraus> I ran across that during my searching around.. let me go through that with a fine tooth comb..
[07:00] <OvenWerks> there are lots of files with channel-map in there
[07:00] <OvenWerks> also input-mapping and output-mappings
[07:00] <Kraus> Visually, these .conf files don't ring a bell for me, because I remember the file I inserted the lines into were more like a python script...
[07:01] <Kraus> Let me keep looking
[07:02] <Kraus> /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/profile-sets has conf files that look like they have to do specifically with different devices rather than a pacmd type thing..
[07:02] <Kraus> Ahh, no, okay, it was specificalled channel underscore map, not hyphen.
[07:02] <Kraus> So no, these definitely aren't them.
[07:03] <Kraus> Can't believe I figured this out the first time around. XD
[07:04] <OvenWerks> personally, I would be happy if they were just called ch1 to chn and could be accessed individually or as a specific set within pulse...
[07:05] <Kraus> I'd really be curious to find out who coded all this originally, and how long ago. Some of this code goes back decades I bet.
[07:06] <Kraus> Is there a place where modules are held as files?
[07:07] <Kraus> Or are they just commands.. "load-module" etc
[07:09] <Kraus> module-jack-sink
[07:12] <Kraus> Ahhah.. they're all binaries in /usr/lib/pulse-13.99.1/modules/module-jack-sink.so
[07:12] <Kraus> But they aren't scripts.
[07:12] <Kraus> So.. the script Ilm looking for calls these commands... so it's somewhere else...
[08:20] <Kraus> I must sleep. Will pick this up tomorrow.
[09:08] <AppAraat[m]> Hi, until when will 20.04 be supported here?
[14:55] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: I think 20.04 is supported till 23.04, so a year after the next lts comes out. (22.04)
[14:55] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: ^^ is that right?
[15:53] <John122> OvenWerks: Morning OvenWerks, just to let you know I got the 4th one working. Just made a copy of the sd card from one of the other working clients and changed the hostname back etc. No idea what it was but something I'd done at some point presumably, but now (especially after my final balanced cable came today), I have perfectly sounding audio from all 4 to the mixing desk! thanks again
[15:56] <OvenWerks> John122: great, good to hear. I expect I could add zita-njbridge settings to controls.
[15:58] <OvenWerks> It was good figuring your setup out. The only thing I would find anoying is that there is no way (I can see) of knowing that the network connection is active
[15:58] <John122> OvenWerks: that'd be good! works a treat too. brought down both a guest (to make a copy of the sd card on the mac as described above), and auto reconnected to master on reboot, and also just brought down the master to test booting from an SSD drive instead of sdcard (works, and fast, but the cable is a bit dodgy so not sure I'll bother). When I rebooted the master, all the guests reconnected automatically too :)
[15:59] <OvenWerks> part of the zizta-njbridge design idea is that connects and disconnects cause no issues.
[16:01] <OvenWerks> A sender will accept audio from jack conneted or not and a receiver will output silence to jack with no connect.
[16:01] <John122> OvenWerks: hmm, yes, actually once basics work, thoughts to turn to things like having a web page I can access that shows me the status of the connections etc and lets me stop/start things etc. not something I need to get into now but obviously knowing the connection is active would be important. I'll look at that side again when I have a bit more time though
[16:09] <OvenWerks> It would be possible to use OSC (or even http) to exchange status between nodes (assuming autojack on both ends :)
[16:14] <OvenWerks> Sounds like something for 2.3... I think I have enough for 2.2
[17:05] <John122> OvenWerks: ;)
[18:52] <Kraus> Good morning, all. I continue my quest.
[19:02] <Kraus> Hey OvenWerks, here's a question: What would need to be done to create an environment where CLI commands like "pactl load-module" could work in conjunction with Ubuntu Studio Controls, instead what currently happens where USC overrides and reverts it to its own settings?
[19:07] <Kraus> Oops, accidentally left, sorry.
[19:18] <OvenWerks> Kraus: coming in 2.2 there are four scripts the user can supply: prestart, poststart, prestop and poststop
[19:19] <OvenWerks> I am not sure how useful all of them are, but the post start at least should be useful
[19:20] <Kraus> What do they do?
[19:20] <OvenWerks> they are scripts that autojack runs as part of startup and shutdown of jack
[19:21] <OvenWerks> The user can supply extra cli commands in these bash scripts (well whatever the #! says)
[19:21] <Kraus> How about a place in the Ubuntu Studio Controls GUI where someone can type out a command CLI style? Sort of like how on Steam you can add in launch options to a game?
[19:22] <OvenWerks> I fail to see how that is any easier than supplying a script which can have more than one line.
[19:22] <OvenWerks> They are effectively both the same
[19:23] <Kraus> It would allow them to add/subtract things to that script through the GUI instead of opening up the python file.
[19:23] <OvenWerks> However, a file with a script is much more flexable
[19:23] <OvenWerks> no python file needed
[19:23] <Kraus> Oh, you mean you're adding bash scripts, not python scripts?
[19:24] <OvenWerks> Basically a file that has two lines even would work
[19:24] <OvenWerks> could be bash python, sh csh whatever
[19:24] <OvenWerks> the first line of #!/bin/bash would expect bash commands
[19:24] <OvenWerks> or just straight CLI commands
[19:25] <Kraus> I'm taking into consideration users who have no idea about coding and would be fearful of opening a script file of any kind...
[19:26] <Kraus> Anything with buttons and knobs instead of learning syntax and typing things.
[19:26] <OvenWerks> Kraus: probably these same people would be fearful of adding a command in a gui too.
[19:27] <Kraus> Which is why Mac and Windows win in these situations :)
[19:28] <Kraus> I'm a graphic designer by trade, and for decades I avoided using Linux for these reasons. So it's the first thing I think of, which is, how can it be visually represented and integrated for the average user. For a distro and system that aims to make music accessible to everyone through FOSS, would be a shame not to consider the design aspects of accessibility. I mean I'd be willing to help with this! I could use a good project to
[19:28] <Kraus> start learning these things :)
[19:29] <OvenWerks> Kraus: just being real honest here. I personally have a real blind spot in areas like this. I do not find mac or windows easier to use, quite the oposite. Everything I want to look at is hidden and I am forced to learn a foreign languge just to use the silly thing
[19:29] <OvenWerks> Intuitive seems to mean however the user first learned to use things
[19:30] <OvenWerks> for example a double click to do things was never and is still not intuitive what so ever but it has been used so much it has become expected
[19:30] <Kraus> As soon as I manage to get 20.10 going I'd sure love to help with the design.
[19:31] <Kraus> I'd need to learn how to work with the UI design tool.. what was it.. glade or something?
[19:31] <OvenWerks> it would not be to hard to open a text window where the user could enter a list of commands. The first line need not show
[19:32] <OvenWerks> but very quickly it becomes more difficult for someone who wants to something differetn to do so.
[19:33] <Kraus> Right, and I myself would need to learn what all these capabilities are, otherwise the design would be too limiting.
[19:35] <Kraus> There's someone on the Linux Musicians forum that has been working to make open source drivers for Focusrite interfaces. People have been sending him their machines so he has something to work with. Once those are available, this system will desperately be needed to work with the multitude of channels and features those things have.
[19:36] <Kraus> I was even imagining a version of ubuntustudio-controls that has Carla integrated with it. Would seem to me a super logical step.
[19:37] <Kraus> Would be amazing to set up input/output devices, bridges, etc, all in one convenient control panel.
[19:41] <OvenWerks> Kraus: integrating controls with carla is beyond the scope of this project. We would be using Catia instead but it has not been released as a separate application yet. Adding support for specific audio devices does not make sense as that would just add requests for all devices. The size of controls would be huge
[19:42] <Kraus> I've never quite understood the difference between Carla and Catia beyond the way it looks to the user.
[19:42] <OvenWerks> I would hope that any upgrades to Focusrite would show up in the alsa mixer controls where they really belong
[19:43] <Kraus> This is how the proprietary controller looks on Windows: http://d2zjg0qo565n2.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/focusrite/Focusrite%20Control%20Guitar.png
[19:43] <Kraus> That's for a simpler controller, btw.. The 18i20 looks even more complex.
[19:44] <OvenWerks> Catia is just a jack patchbay without the rest of carla which includes the rack. The only reason Carla is startable from controls is so the user can use the patchbay
[19:45] <Kraus> Ahh, so, Catia is without the Rack?
[19:45] <OvenWerks> yup.
[19:46] <Kraus> Always thought the way that "portal" look to the patchbay was kind of funky. Why have scroll bars when there are more elegant solutions?
[19:46] <Kraus> Or at least have the ability to auto-resize the window, would be nicer.
[19:47] <Kraus> https://kx.studio/screenshots/catia.png I see those devices as icons on a desktop. There should be an auto-arrange function.
[19:47] <OvenWerks> a mixer control for the ice1712 batch of audio interfaces: https://i.imgur.com/s3O8UpB.png
[19:48] <Kraus> So 90s :)
[19:48] <OvenWerks> or for a firewire device: https://i.imgur.com/3JLa2nj.png
[19:49] <Kraus> That's a little better.
[19:49] <OvenWerks> yes 90s, part of that is my desktop theme for sure
[19:49] <Kraus> hehe :)
[19:49] <OvenWerks> but you can see the complexity
[19:50] <Kraus> I can, yes
[19:50] <Kraus> And that's Alsa, yeah?
[19:51] <Kraus> I wish someone could coordinate with all these projects to fashion a consistent, uniform look and feel.
[19:51] <OvenWerks> this is the same ice1712 device in alsa: https://i.imgur.com/B17Jclc.png
[19:52] <Kraus> That mini scrollbar on the bottom is funky.
[19:54] <OvenWerks> Having a dedicated app is much better, as you can see ALSA if often not sure if a control is input of output and so some controls show in both places. Of course with firewire devices using tha FFADO modules ALSA mix doesn't show anything.
[19:54] <Kraus> See, my background is in graphic design and desktop publishing (a term that didn't age very well, heh.. very 90's), but in essence, I was paid to make things look good, and in terms of web design, to function well. So when I see things like this, I often think, "Why didn't they tweak [x] a little? Or take [y] into account?"
[19:56] <Kraus> What I lack is knowledge of coding, but I can understand general concepts of it. I just need to learn howh to mediate between the two disciplines.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> I understand. Nor am I suggesting controls has the perfect design for sure.
[19:57] <Kraus> I wish I could remember which file I inputted the channel_map=front-left,front-right,rear-left,rear-right stuff.. Until I can remember it I'm stuck from upgrading.
[19:58] <OvenWerks> I very much do not come from a mac (who can afford to pay that much for so little?) or windows ( when I started windows was more often in process of rebooting than doing any useful work)
[19:58] <Kraus> I remember, like autojack, I had to input the information in two places, duplicates of each other, and it wasn't a config file.. it definitely was something more like a python script. I just can't remember which script it was.
[19:59] <Kraus> Yeh, for me, at first, in the early 90s I was forced to buy a Mac so I could work well with clients. Before Windows/Mac file compatibility, it was a huge issue. I grew up on DOS, then Windows, so Mac was like, "really? c'mon, I like being babied, but not braindead."
[20:15] <Kraus> OvenWerks: is the /etc/pulse/default.pa file a thing with Ubuntu Studio?
[20:15] <OvenWerks> it is there in all ubuntu flavours so far as I know
[20:15] <Kraus> Because it's not there.
[20:15] <Kraus> ack
[20:16] <Kraus> Sorry, wrong wrong, ignore that.
[21:27] <Kraus> Yeah, OvenWerks, I'm sorry but this /has/ to be an ubuntu studio-specific file that I hacked.. It cannot be pulse or alsa, because it defined what channel_map ubuntu studio controls uses.
[21:28] <Kraus> autojack is what tells pactl to do, right?
[21:28] <OvenWerks> yes autojack is the file to change
[21:28] <Kraus> I would show you the contents of the file currently, but apparently pastebin is down.
[21:29] <Kraus> But there is nothing of what I added in there (i.e.: channel_map=front-left,front-right,rear-left,rear-right )
[21:30] <Kraus> The only thing in there that I MAY have altered is channels=4 .. but it doesn't define the channels.
[21:30] <Kraus> Did anything change since last September?
[21:30] <Kraus> Like, new updates I'm not taking into account?
[21:30] <OvenWerks> If you use channels=4 you should have front-left, front-right rear-left rear-right I think
[21:31] <OvenWerks> Studio-controls is at 2.1.5 these days
[21:31] <Kraus> ... then why do I have such a distinct memory of writing all that in... did I keep those changes? I can't remember...
[21:31] <OvenWerks> Last september it may have been 2.0.24 or something like that
[21:32] <Kraus> Alright.. well.. I don't know what else I can do but disregard my memory and hope for the best.
[21:41] <Kraus> OvenWerks: Does Ubuntu Studio come with a system backup tool like Déjà Dup for Gnome?
[21:41] <Kraus> (XFCE specific)
[21:43] <Kraus> I guess I don't need to back up everything like themes, etc, because we're switching from XFCE to Plasma..
[21:43] <OvenWerks> Probably not... I don't keep track that close :)
[22:00] <covid73[m]> Hi, if I try to start freebirth - system say Unable to open audio device.- know one a solution ?
[22:07] <OvenWerks> covid73[m]: I am not sure what freebirth is or where I could find out more about it.
[22:08] <OvenWerks> Is freebirth jack aware? are you running jack? Which device are you trying to use? etc.
[22:09] <covid73[m]> installed from MUON - its a synth like propellerhead rebirth
[22:10]  * covid73[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/YKziEiVPPxNTyTSAXqAVeCoN/message.txt >
[22:10] <covid73[m]> but aoss is there :(
[22:11] <OvenWerks> How old is this that it uses oss?
[22:12] <covid73[m]> if I try the non alsa version - covid@CV19:~$ freebirth
[22:12] <covid73[m]> Unable to open audio device.
[22:13] <OvenWerks> Which audio device are you trying to open? is it in use? (is the desktop using it?)
[22:13] <OvenWerks> does it have an option to use the default device?
[22:14] <covid73[m]> I dont know - it same if  all sound is off - I see only zhose information
[22:16] <covid73[m]> my aoss is uptodate - I think the aplikation needs older version of
[22:33] <OvenWerks> freebirth seems to have vanished 2014 (or that is the last the dev was heard from) The upstream site is 404 (not found) and the last change to the ubuntu package was 2016. If you have been using it for a while, I am not sure what has changed. If you want to start using it now, I would suggest finding another application that still has active development. I am not sure if hydrogen does what you
[22:33] <OvenWerks> want but could be worth a try.
[22:33] <OvenWerks> covid73[m]: I am really not the person to ask
[22:34] <OvenWerks> It is not the kind of sw I normally use
[22:34] <OvenWerks> I tend to record analog sources as a preference.
[22:35] <OvenWerks> another application to try would be LMMS
[22:36] <covid73[m]> thanks a lot ... yeh LMMS shows a bit Ableton - like nice