[01:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> Iamahuman4: Do you have a general support question? General non-support chat is in #ubuntustudio-offtopic, and would be more appropriate for stuff you're doing.
[02:19] <Kraus> Found something very weird happening now that I'm on the newest version of Studio Controls.
[02:23] <kraus[m]> Trying to think of where to begin.
[02:24] <Kraus[m]> Several things seem to be going wrong.
[02:25]  * Kraus[m]  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ShCQSvnUJnlQZDuCviuqGDdZ/message.txt >
[02:26] <Kraus[m]> The script runs, but has no effect. Also when I type the command into CLI manually, lines 8 and 9 show there is an "assertion failure."
[02:28]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (43KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AiYDOWyIGdmLQsOxnhcCgMlb/image.png >
[02:28] <Kraus[m]> My patchbay loads entirely screwed up now.
[02:31] <Kraus[m]> I also noticed now that if I hit the "Start or Restart  JACK" button on Studio controls when Jack is already running, it won't restart it. It will stop the server completely.
[02:31] <Kraus[m]> I then have to click the button again to get it to restart.
[02:33] <Kraus[m]> After starting the server back up, I notice Carla's patchbay connections, while screwed up visually, are at least reconnected the way they should be.
[02:33]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (45KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/KVQGgmpAnCcOmesplAoaWNJu/image.png >
[02:35] <Kraus[m]> On the older version, this is what my Devices looked like in Controls:
[02:35]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (11KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/CgvOVRKksuGRuaMmBfqiWYwA/image.png >
[02:36] <Kraus[m]> But in the new version they seem to be... reversed?
[02:36]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (16KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/OtWgYsSVgLvahgMugFDmWQqu/image.png >
[02:36] <Kraus[m]> Plus it says "unplugged." That doesn't settle well with me? Why does it say it's unplugged? What's unplugged, exactly?
[02:38] <Kraus[m]> Also I'm not quite sure what Auto connection port is. It's set to "0"
[02:40] <Kraus[m]>  * But in the new version they seem to be... reversed? Not sure. Instead of saying "USB Jack Master" it has something that's unplugged. What's unpluggedd, exactly, and why?
[02:43] <Kraus[m]> I need to step out for a bit but I should be back in about an hour'ish
[03:52] <Kraus[m]> Wow... I logged out, then back in, and here's what my patchbay looks like
[03:52]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (67KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ClxSqxVPdyHvsYTyUFueWXWn/image.png >
[03:52] <Kraus[m]> Something's definitely not right.
[03:54] <Kraus[m]> Jack is indeed running, too.
[03:54]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (63KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/KrxQqYCiwbKEjdPETExLZlbo/image.png >
[03:56] <Kraus[m]> In controls, I stop jack, start jack, and it goes back to this.
[03:56]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (54KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/pZNORgALeGlPrCJDSjcUOwrJ/image.png >
[03:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Kraus: Considering this chat thread of yours has been going on over an hour and a half, this is best put into an email.
[03:58] <Kraus[m]> I was gone for a long time.
[03:58] <Kraus[m]> Had to go to dinner. The posts only took a matter of 10 minutes.
[03:58] <Kraus[m]> But anyways, thoughts on the problem?
[03:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> It doesn't matter, it looks like monologuing. I have no answers.
[03:59] <Kraus[m]> Okay, can you guide me on how to revert back to 20.10 version of Studio, please?
[03:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks is the developer of studio-controls.
[03:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> The only way to revert is clean install.
[03:59] <Kraus[m]> This all started after enabling backport
[03:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, nvm.
[04:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> You can always use ppa-purge, but I'd rather get the issue fixed rather than give up on it.
[04:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks is out, but he does need to know about issues.
[04:00] <Kraus[m]> yeah, I would not like to think after completely reinstalling Linux a few days ago I would need to all over again because of this
[04:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'd consult with OvenWerks before doing anything. But constantly posting without an answer and expecting an answer is only channel monologuing.
[04:02]  * Kraus[m] uploaded an image: (728KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ioeYFXrkvhWmnKPzXDhqrzFM/tumblr_inline_mokjsrelHq1qz4rgp540.gif >
[04:04] <Kraus[m]> I'm sorry, I disagree with the monologing thing. I've been showing screenshots in an attempt to demonstrate the bug in the software. I installed this to try and help out with the design, but I wasn't expecting my entire system to break.
[04:06] <Kraus[m]> If you'd like me to compose an email, perhaps you could tell me which email address is in association with bug reports. And/or if there is a github issue thread, perhaps point me in the direction of that, but please don't insult me by saying I'm "monologing" just for trying to help.
[04:07] <Kraus[m]> How do you do a "ppa purge"?
[04:28] <Eickmeyer[m]> !ppa-purge | Kraus
[04:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Kraus: As for bug reports against studio-controls, see https://github.com/OvenWerks/studio-controls/issues
[04:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> Kraus: I probably saw it as monologuing because this is the support channel. If you had posted in the development channel, I'd have been more tolerant.
[04:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> Especially since you've been helping out there a lot.
[04:34] <Kraus[m]> Well, I figured it didn't squarely deal with development since it was a series of bugs(?) that resulted from an issue from a committed release. I can bring the conversation there if you like, but I thought that channel was more for discussing yet-to-be-released things.
[04:35] <sipher> Hi, I look in Ubuntu Studio has a new app: Studio Controls. In similar apps like QjackCtl or Cadence one can see an latency average in 'ms' when setting jack. If i decided use Studio Controls, how can see the latency average?
[04:35] <Kraus[m]> And since I really don't know where things went wrong, I don't know what specific item to bring up first. All I know is the overall effects of the issue(s)
[04:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Kraus: Understood, but we have IRC guidelines against this.
[04:35] <Kraus[m]> Where? <_<
[04:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> !guidelines
[04:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> Specifically, "Don't flood the channel with messages."
[04:37] <Kraus[m]> Might want to put a link to the guidelines in the channel description. I had no idea.
[04:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> !topic
[04:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> oops, it's in /topic on IRC.
[04:38] <Kraus[m]> Anyways, I'm making a new issue in Github, but I have a feeling it'll be rejected since there's multiple issues rolled into one. Bringing them here was my best bet.
[04:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> You'd be surprised. OvenWerks isn't one to outright reject issues.
[04:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> sipher: To answer your question, at this time there's no way to do that. However, there are ways to calculate latency pretty easily: https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/list_of_jack_frame_period_settings_ideal_for_usb_interface
[04:42] <sipher> Eickmeyer[m] when you say: 'at this time there's no way to do that'. Are you talking about of Studio Controls?
[04:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> sipher: Yes.
[04:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> sipher: The chart I just linked for you shows every single combination and latency calculation.
[04:44] <sipher> Eickmeyer[m] thanks for the info, now i need read it. Peace
[04:56] <sipher> Wow wow that wiki is on fire! I was setting in the wrong way my USB interface. Thank you very much Eickmeyer[m] for the hint and by the way thank you for your work with Ubuntu Studio and the free audio community (and sorry for say this: please don't forget update Ardour backport ppa)
[04:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> sipher: Are you on 20.10?
[04:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> The Ardour backport PPA is only for 20.04 so that people who have projects on Ardour 5.12 can continue using it.
[04:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Since 20.10 and above have Ardour 6, they can update using the standard backports PPA.
[04:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> !ubuntustudio-backports
[04:59] <sipher> I'm in 20.04  coz I prefer LTS model
[05:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, ok. Well, the Ardour backports has the latest version (6.5). 6.6 hasn't been released yet for Debian, and I probably won't be able to backport until after 21.04's release.
[05:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> But that depends on if 6.6 has any new features or not.
[05:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Or if I can get a Feature Freeze Exception.
[05:04] <sipher> I see, well I work with VST3 (Linux native, no wine) and I read in the Ardour's changelog (6.6) that it has new vst3 improvements.
[05:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, well, unfortunately, that would be a new feature and won't work with the Feature Freeze policy in Ubuntu, so it'll probably have to wait to be backported until after 21.04 is released.
[05:09] <sipher> don't worry Eickmeyer[m], again thanks for all
[05:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> :)
[05:53] <Kraus> Alright, I think I managed to get it all out there in the issue: https://github.com/ovenwerks/studio-controls/issues/51
[10:40]  * Iamahuman4 acks the --less_verbose request of eickmaister
[14:37] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: yes there are multiple issues :)
[14:43] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: Please be aware that almost no DE currently does a proper logout. In most cases the logout is not completed and a second login will show both a script started at login on the first login as well as the same script started on the second login. Hence your two scripts running after logout/login. This is a DE problem with all major DEs. The only way to restart a session is to reboot
[14:45] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: also note that when you added the backports PPA it was not only studio-controls that updated but Carla as well. So it is not a surprise that Carla has changed what it calls it's ports.
[14:48] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: however, in this case, I suspect you have Carla.01 because there is already a Carla running in a prior login (perhaps a jack too) that has already taken the name Carla and so Carla (or jack) has added .01 on to the name to make it unique.
[14:51] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: please be more descriptive than "mangled" Looking at the screenshots in the issue I do not see something that is obviously "mangled".
[14:52] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: it is better to say I expected <insert what was expected> but instead I found <insert what was unexpectedly found>
[14:56] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: so my guess is that you wanted to see Carla show it's patch bay in the same way as you rearanged it. This is (so far as I know) a known issue. Also be aware that Carla in ubuntu is not the same as Carla in upstream
[15:07] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: because of a known bug in jackd, Carla will cause Jackd to hang requiring a reboot under some conditions. So thge ubuntu version of Carla removes two or three lines of code that access that part of jack. This may make lining things up not work as it should.
[15:17] <John122> Hi all. OvenWerk1 are you around? Or maybe someone else can help? Just moved my Rubix 24 4-output usb audio interface from a Raspberry PI to a Mini PC running Ubuntu 20.04 and it's coming up as 4.0 surround and I can't see a way to change it. I thought it was in pavucontrol but can't see it? When I try to set up bridges in Studio Controls, it's always trying to use pairs (1&2 etc), and I need 1, 2, 3 and 4. Thank
[15:17] <John122> s
[15:22] <OvenWerk1> John122: pulse always sees any audio interface as surround. To put it another way, Pulse thinks of all audio as a stream with a certain amount of channels. So each device is a stream.
[15:22] <OvenWerk1> John122: jackd on the other hand, sees each channel separately
[15:22] <John122> OvenWerk1: hi!
[15:23] <John122> OvenWerk1: but when I try to bridge in Studio Controls I'm getting the option of 1&2, 2&3 - on the RPi I had 1, 2, 3 and 4 ?
[15:23] <OvenWerk1> What version of studio controls are you using?
[15:24] <OvenWerk1> Have you set the channel count on pulse bridges to 1?
[15:26] <OvenWerk1> remember studio controls is in active development and there are still major changes from 2.0.* to 2.1.*
[15:28] <OvenWerk1> John122: if you are running jack via studio controls, pulse will only ever see any device via pulse-jack bridging, so the channel count of these bridges is important. however, if jack is not running, pulse will do what it wants to do, is designed to do, which is to treat all devices as audio streams
[15:31] <John122> sorry. It's the version that came with Ubuntu I think, although I thought I'd updated it. I can't actually see where the version number is?
[15:31] <John122> OvenWerk1: can't see a channel count there
[15:31] <OvenWerk1> If the version number is not shown in the GUI, it is older
[15:32] <John122> OvenWerk1: sorry, got to go, rushing out to see a house and wife is shouting at me :) bbl and will update
[15:32] <OvenWerk1> as of 2.1 studio controls shows the version number
[15:32] <John122> thanks
[16:19] <OvenWerk1> Kraus: I have commented on the issue, I will change the code in studio controls 2.2 to make sure all bridges are in place before the poststart script is run.
[17:32] <John122> OvenWerk1: just got back in 5 mins ago, uninstalled ubuntu studio-controls, grabbed the newest from github, and setup in no time. And the script you wrote for me (changed slightly to add the first RPi which was the master so it is a slave now etc), seems great ! thanks
[18:07] <John122> OvenWerk1: yep, just tested all 4 channels. couple of typos on my part but now all 4 working perfectly to the new mini pc. Also added the ability to record the media streams from all 4 RPis to the mini pc too (in fact, I'm actually duplicating the audio at the moment and it may be that I end up not using the zita bridge and just taking the audio from that stream but this is easier so unless it proves a problem CP
[18:07] <John122> U/bandwidth wise I'll leave it as it is). Just some tweaks UI wise now and I'm good to go!
[18:07] <John122> thanks again so much for your help. IRC can be both terrible, in the wrong places, and wonderful in the right places. reminds me of how the internet used to be before the masses ;) had so much support for the different areas of this project from different channels!
[21:57] <Kraus> OvenWerk1: Hi, Oven, thanks. I'm curious, what's a DE?
[22:07] <Kraus> What's the way I can uninstall everything Studio Installer installed? Is there an uninstaller? I need to revert everything back to the pre-backport state.
[22:16] <corrinado[m]> Kraus: a Desktop Environment. (think Gnome, KDE, XFCE, etc.)
[22:17] <Kraus> Ahhh~
[22:17]  * Kraus goes back and re-reads in order to get the context now.
[22:18] <Kraus> Yeah.. yeah, still confused.. it's okay though. I just need to undo all these changes. I don't even need the backport system to work on the panel design.
[22:32] <Kraus> Maybe just like.. a list of all packages?
[22:32] <Kraus> I don't know, I'm lost.
[22:56] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Is it true that you're doing this on Linux Mint???
[23:05] <Kraus> Eickmeyer: Yeah? I had to go to something XFCE compatible.
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: We don't support Linux Mint here at all. Ubuntu Studio Installer isn't supported in Linux Mint.
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> !mint
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: You're on your own.
[23:06] <Kraus> Well for crying out loud, I don't know what else to do. The KDE installer wouldn't properly get my drives going.
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: I'm sorry, but we have to draw the line at offical Ubuntu flavors. Mint does not count.
[23:07] <Kraus> I was told to use the Installer, and that's what I did. What do you have against Linux Mint?
[23:07] <Eickmeyer> You're welcome to help OvenWerk1 with development of studio-controls, but we cannot help you with your issues here.
[23:07] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: It's not an official flavor of Ubuntu.
[23:07] <genii> !mint
[23:08] <Kraus> My god, all these hidden asterisks.
[23:08] <Kraus> So will you guys help me get KDE going?
[23:08] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: You might check with #kubuntu on that. You haven't told anybody what problems you've had.
[23:09] <Kraus> Actually I did bring it up last week, but I wasn't getting any response from people.
[23:09] <Eickmeyer> However, we only handle Ubuntu Studio-specific items here, not enough people to help with Plasma.
[23:09] <Kraus> The issue I was having was that it wouldn't let me get an LVM going.
[23:09] <Eickmeyer> The folks in #kubuntu can help you with the desktop environment.
[23:09] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Then #ubuntu or if it's the installer, #lubuntu since they maintian Calamares, the installer.
[23:09] <Kraus> Okay, what exactly does Ubuntu Studio support? I'm really confused about the purview of this channel.
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> We support the multimedia setup, primarily the Jack audio stack.
[23:10] <Kraus> And that's what I need help with. Can you please tell me which packages I need to uninstall that were downloaded through backport?
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> But, all flavors of Ubuntu work together to provide support. We just can't handle everything here. We will redirect you to people with better expertise than us.
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: I told you to use ppa-purge.
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> !ppa-purge
[23:11] <Kraus> If I run into any Mint-specific problems implimenting it, then I'll approach the Mint people. But I see no reason why I can't be given support for Installer when this channel is where to go for support.
[23:11] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: BUT, if you're using Mint, we don't support anything. Period. Do NOT argue with us on this.
[23:11] <Kraus> OKay, so, the Enable Backport PPA enables a PPA?
[23:12] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Yes, but you have to use the terminal to remove all of the packages (and downgrade them) with ppa-purge.
[23:12] <Kraus> That's fine. I just need to know what packages were installed.
[23:12] <Eickmeyer> ppa-purge does ALL OF THEM.
[23:13] <Eickmeyer> You don't need to know exactly which ones if you want to remove the PPA.
[23:13] <Eickmeyer> But, again, if this is Mint, you need to be asking Mint for support.
[23:13] <Kraus> I'm new at this. Very sorry.
[23:13] <Eickmeyer> Mint has a separate IRC server, they're not on Freenode.
[23:13] <Eickmeyer> !mint
[23:14] <Kraus> Alright, so, we're going to go through a time warp, and I now have a computer with an official Ubuntu installation.
[23:14] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: I've seen the stuff you can do with GTK, so I'm not entirely convinced you're new.
[23:14] <Kraus> That was literally my first day using Glade.
[23:14] <Eickmeyer> Ok, then you learn quickly.
[23:15] <Kraus> Graphic Designer, like I said.
[23:15] <Kraus> Anyways.
[23:15] <Eickmeyer> Either way, I can't help you beyond what I've told you. I am also working a day job at the moment.
[23:15] <Kraus> I really didn't ask you to reply.
[23:15] <Kraus> If you got stuff to you by all means go to it.
[23:16] <Kraus> *do
[23:16] <Kraus> If you got stuff to do, by all means go to it. I can get my support from others.
[23:16] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Knowing what I know (that you're using Mint), I had to do my duty as a channel operator. You seem to have difficulty adhering to channel topic and following IRC guidelines. Everything was in the topic line when you first joined this channel.
[23:16] <Kraus> tbh I would much rather speak to Ovenworks about this.
[23:17] <Kraus> I was told that I could use Installer with any distro. No one warned me that Mint was taboo.
[23:17] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Understandable, but as the Ubuntu Studio Project Leader and IRC operator of this channel, it is my duty to correct you (and others) and make sure the IRC guidelines and topic are being adhered to.
[23:18] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Did you read the official documentation? That would have told you official Ubuntu flavors only.
[23:18] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer
[23:19] <Kraus> When I installed the backport software I was already on Mint, so you shouldn't have told me to do that if I was on Mint.
[23:19] <Eickmeyer> Did you tell anybody you were on Mint?
[23:19] <Eickmeyer> Also, EVERYTHING here is "Use at your own risk."
[23:28] <Kraus> smh
[23:34] <Kraus> Yes, I did mention I'm on Mint.
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: You are responsible for looking for documentation yourself. You can't expect anybody to tell you every little bit. We can't hold hands here when helping people, it's beyond the scope.
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> People are expected to have done their own research before asking for help on any IRC channel.
[23:35] <Kraus> In addition, I should also point out that after I mentioned I was on Mint, I was told this: [1:27:17 pm] <OvenWerks> Kraus: I think the idea was floated at one point. but with only two of us and each of us being part of other projects as well, there is just not the manpower. That is where ubuntustudio-installer came from. Install whichever ubuntu flavour you wish and put studio on top of it.
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: "Ubuntu Flavor" is the key there. Mint is not an Ubuntu Flavor.
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> It is a derivitive, not a flavor.
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> !flavor
[23:36] <Kraus> It is, just not an "official" one according to you? You're the first person to suggest it's not.
[23:36] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Look at the link. Stop arguing with me on this.
[23:36] <Kraus> I'm just telling you, I am NEW at this.
[23:37] <Kraus> Mint? I heard "it's a fork of Ubuntu". That's all I knew.
[23:37] <Eickmeyer> It's not a fork, it is derived from Ubuntu's LTS versions. But, it is not official nor endorsed by Ubuntu.
[23:37] <Kraus> I knew it's popular, it's clean, it's simple, it doesn't force Snapcraft, and it uses XFCE. I said oooh, cool, sounds like the one for me.
[23:37] <Eickmeyer> Anyhow, I'm not going to belabor this further.
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> You used one of our tools in an unsupported way, period. If you wish to have support here, you cannot use Mint. End of discussion.
[23:38] <Kraus> That's FINE. I'm NOT ARGUING that.
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> And you don't need to be arguing anyhow. Whether or not you're new is irrellevant.
[23:39] <Eickmeyer> Anyhow, this entire conversation is getting off-topic.
[23:39] <Kraus> I don't even know why you had me do the backport thing in the first place. It wasn't even necessary for working on the design.
[23:39] <Eickmeyer> Because you didn't have the latest version of studio-controls, and you weren't up-to-date on it because of that.
[23:40] <Kraus> I don't need to have the latest version of studio-controls to work on the design.
[23:40] <Eickmeyer> You do if what you have is out-of-date design-wise.
[23:40] <Kraus> All I was doing was sprucing up the design. I don't need to actively be using it to work on it.
[23:41] <Eickmeyer> This discussion is going nowhere.
[23:41] <Kraus> *shrugs*
[23:41] <Eickmeyer> Kraus: Please drop this conversation. Final warning.
[23:42] <Eickmeyer> What I say goes in this channel. It is up to you to do your own research, read the documentation, and only come here when you've exhausted all resources.
[23:43] <Kraus> Please drop this conversation.
[23:43] <Kraus> Not fair for you to continue on with it if you're not letting me respond.
[23:44] <Kraus> Not going to sit here and let you chastise me without a chance for defending myself.