[01:57] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:52] <marcoagpinto> Morning!
[05:39] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:48] <ducasse> good morning
[13:10] <goddard> why does ubuntu ask me if i want to update but then has updates after i already "updated" in the installer?
[13:11] <goddard> also the welcome window shouldn't launch the app store as a sub-process
[13:11] <goddard> if i close the welcome it closes the app store
[13:12] <goddard> also the errors in the app store should be more friendly and snap operations should have a queue system
[13:12] <goddard> super unfriendly errors make it seem like it is broken rather then just doing what it should be doing
[13:13] <goddard> if the user wants to "enable debugging" or something then show the extra information
[13:13] <goddard> but i just installed ubuntu and now i have a 200 something packages to update
[13:13] <goddard> what was the point of the updates checkbox again?
[13:14] <lotuspsychje> goddard: you are part of the ubuntu community, file some wishlist bugs
[13:14] <goddard> ubuntu is a little too old to be having these kind of problems
[13:15] <goddard> file bugs that the devs will ignore no thanks
[13:15] <ducasse> goddard: i am not sure as i have not tested this, but it's possible the checkbox only enables installation of security updates
[13:16] <ducasse> same thing as auto install of updates
[13:17] <lotuspsychje> goddard: if your wishlist is sane enough and you find other users to back it, you can get more attention and make a difference on your fav Os
[13:18] <lotuspsychje> goddard: a new installer is also being made based on flutter, now its the time for your ideas?
[13:19] <goddard> oh great
[13:19] <goddard> linux people love re-inventing the wheel
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> its called evolution, every release things change
[13:19] <goddard> and breaks stuff
[13:19] <goddard> and still has bugs and acts crappy
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> you know any Os that doesnt have bugs?
[13:20] <goddard> change creates bugs
[13:20] <goddard> we have not even perfected basic app store features
[13:21] <goddard> but lets totally make a new installer
[13:21] <goddard> who makes these choices?
[13:21] <lotuspsychje> there's influences from a lot of sides on the ubuntu community
[13:22] <lotuspsychje> there's not a man god pressing a red button up there
[13:23] <goddard> why can't you right click the dock?
[13:23] <goddard> to get settings
[13:23] <goddard> why cant you minimize apps by clicking the icon on the dock?
[13:24] <goddard> the default experience just feels unfinished and broken
[13:24] <lotuspsychje> goddard: you can minimize apps by clicking icons in dconf-editor
[13:25] <goddard> wow sounds super friendly
[13:25] <goddard> you see what i am saying?
[13:25] <goddard> that is not a good solution
[13:25] <ducasse> ithm it's a setting to enable it
[13:26] <ducasse> other than that, the gnome desktop is infamous for removing useful features
[13:26] <lotuspsychje> goddard: create some good solutions bugs and ill affect them if they good
[13:29] <goddard> okay
[13:29] <goddard> on launchpad?
[13:29] <Maik> yep
[13:30] <goddard> launchpad is annoying as well
[13:30] <goddard> haha
[13:30] <Maik> sigh
[13:30] <goddard> i remember when i was in college i was trying to read the documentation to learn how to package things and the documentation was wrong.  I ended up updating the documentation and the process was long and not fun.
[13:31] <goddard> bzr is not very popular
[13:32] <goddard> shouldn't the documentation system itself hold the versions of the documents?  Why is it in source control with bzr??
[13:32] <goddard> thats why the documentation is out of date
[13:32] <goddard> its hard to do
[13:32] <goddard> too much energy just to change text
[13:33] <goddard> if i used mysql for example
[13:33] <goddard> id just have multiple copies of that item
[13:33] <goddard> never delete anything
[13:33] <goddard> take the newest but have the ability to review old stuff
[13:33] <goddard> simple
[13:33] <goddard> php mysql and js
[13:34] <goddard> takes like 10 minutes to set that up and is already better
[13:34] <ducasse> mysql is a cruel mistress
[13:34] <goddard> well whatever you a cloud provider
[13:34] <goddard> mysql is great for something like this
[13:34] <goddard> just have a read cluster and one write master
[13:34] <goddard> if it is really getting that much traffic
[13:35] <Maik> geez what a chatter
[13:35] <goddard> just venting all these little annoying things hoping some one hears it
[13:36] <lotuspsychje> this is a discuss channel, not really a monologue vent
[13:36] <Maik> vent in your own channel ;)
[13:36] <goddard> feel free to tell me i am wrong
[13:36] <lotuspsychje> perhaps if you learn to discuss with someone it might work goddard
[13:36] <goddard> i am doing it now but you guys aren't saying anything
[13:36] <goddard> talk faster :D
[13:36] <goddard> who controls the documentation system in Ubuntu?
[13:37] <Maik> maybe because no one is really interrested?
[13:37] <goddard> i know
[13:37] <lotuspsychje> a discusion is talk & listen to each other, not a monologue of 1000 polls at the same time
[13:37] <goddard> not paid to be interested
[13:37] <goddard> lotuspsychje: haha thats funny
[13:38] <goddard> so who is in charge of Ubuntu documentation?
[13:38] <Maik> search the web for that
[13:38] <Maik> all the people here are volunteers
[13:38] <goddard> well i assume some people are paid right?
[13:38] <Maik> no
[13:38] <goddard> really?
[13:38] <lotuspsychje> goddard: if you file bugs/wishlists on ubuntu, the right dev gets notified
[13:38] <goddard> how can you afford that?
[13:39] <goddard> lotuspsychje: ill do it
[13:39] <Ussat> We are all independantly wealthy.......
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> rich volunteers :p
[13:39] <goddard> nice pass me a money tree then
[13:39] <ducasse> we get pizza
[13:41] <Ussat> goddard, I have always been ammused by people who look at something free, come up with all these ways OTHER poeple can improve it, but are willing do do nothing...yes, I am looking at you goddard
[13:42] <Maik> Ussat: yep, exactly
[13:42] <Ussat> Now, back to my yacht since I am independantly wealthy :)
[13:42] <goddard> I just told you how i gave back Ussat
[13:42] <goddard> also look at my AskUbuntu
[13:42] <goddard> thats how i know this stuff
[13:42] <goddard> I dont have time to fuss around
[13:43] <goddard> so i gotta talk to the people that have Ubuntu as their job
[13:43] <goddard> I can help with money
[13:43] <goddard> that is really it
[13:43] <Ussat> Right, because your time is so much more important
[13:43] <goddard> I have 3 infants
[13:43] <goddard> and work 2 jobs
[13:43] <Maik> dude
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> goddard: you got a LP account?
[13:45] <goddard> ya
[13:45] <goddard> haven't used it other than saying yes this affects me
[13:45] <lotuspsychje> whats your username?
[13:45] <goddard> at least some what recently
[13:45] <goddard> i think goddard
[13:46] <lotuspsychje> mark goddard?
[13:46] <goddard> oh kinggoddard
[13:46] <goddard> https://launchpad.net/~kinggoddard
[13:46] <goddard> https://askubuntu.com/users/37577/goddard
[13:47] <lotuspsychje> lets see
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> goddard: so you got 1 wishlist, you know how it works
[13:49] <goddard> ya total fraud
[13:49] <goddard> you got me
[13:49] <goddard> :D
[13:57] <goddard> i wish i had time to just do whatever fun project I want maybe when i retire or my kids are in college
[13:57] <Ussat> ....
[13:58] <Ussat> You assume none of us have ANY obligations ?
[13:58] <Ussat> Get off the poor me train
[13:58] <goddard> do you live in a hut?
[13:58] <Maik> goddard: chat less maybe, saves time
[13:58] <goddard> gotta hate on me some how because I didn't say Linux is perfect?
[13:58] <goddard> lame
[13:59] <Maik> no, not at all, just telling the trith
[13:59] <Maik> truth
[13:59] <goddard> Maik: its not a poor me thing.  I am defending myself because you act like you know me.
[14:00] <Maik> you waste your time on venting, ranting and nagging non stop. drop that and you have more time lef :D
[14:00] <Maik> goddard: i've seen people like you before throughout the 13 years on IRC so yeah
[14:00] <goddard> oh really?
[14:01] <goddard> please enlighten me oh wise IRC master
[14:01] <Ussat> ...
[14:01]  * Ussat gets popcorn
[14:01] <goddard> haha
[14:02] <Maik> nah, i'm tired of feeding a .....
[14:02] <Maik> have better things to do
[14:02] <Maik> laters
[14:02] <ducasse> ok guys, this is going nowhere
[14:02] <goddard> haha
[14:02] <goddard> instead of talking about the issues you attack me as a person
[14:02] <goddard> good one!
[14:03] <goddard> i never said i was Mr. Linux aka Linus himself.  I am just a dude that uses Linux and has seen these annoying issues over and over again and nothing is happening it seems so I am yacking it up on IRC.
[14:04] <Maik> yawn... ignore it is
[14:04] <goddard> I support open source projects with the only thing I can
[14:04] <goddard> that is money
[14:05] <goddard> I hate people that can't admin when they are wrong.
[14:05] <goddard> admit
[14:06] <goddard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWelcomeScreen#:~:text=%20Ubuntu%20Welcome%20Screen%20%201%20Summary.%20Hardy%2C,to%20use%20as%20possible.%20A%20window...%20More%20
[14:06] <goddard> just a taste of how great the ubuntu docs are
[14:08] <goddard> the docs have a link to thepimp.net that is 404
[14:08] <goddard> http://macslow.thepimp.net/?p=150
[14:08] <goddard> i think some people just have low standards
[14:09] <goddard> its probably better to have nothing at all compared to that in my opinion
[14:09] <goddard> try to find the code base for the welcome screen
[14:11] <goddard> i tried searching for it and couldn't find it
[14:11] <goddard> probably just some python script
[14:11] <goddard> if i could easily find the damn thing i could fix the one command
[14:12] <goddard> make it launch the App store as its own process not a sub process
[14:12] <ogra> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity
[14:13] <goddard> thats the installer
[14:13] <goddard> right?
[14:15] <daftykins> goddard: goodness me, you make Ussat see like a Saint
[14:15] <daftykins> *seem
[14:15] <goddard> im sorry i am not on my best behavior just being brutally honest
[14:16] <daftykins> i suppose it is Monday!
[14:17] <goddard> haha maybe that is what it is
[20:00] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue 679 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue679 :D
[20:05] <sarnold> :)
[23:53] <guiverc> thanks Maik (earlier in ubuntu.offtopic telegram) for stepping in before me...