[18:59] <sil2100> o/
[18:59] <mhcerri_> o/
[19:02] <ddstreet> o/
[19:02] <teward> ddstreet: you're up for chairing btw
[19:02] <teward> assuming we get quorum
[19:03] <ddstreet> ack, only need 1 more looks like
[19:03] <sil2100> I saw rafaeldtinoco raise his hand on -devel o/
[19:03] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[19:03] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry
[19:04] <rbasak> o/
[19:04] <rbasak> Sorry I'm late
[19:05] <teward> i'm not in a mental state today to give a good vote in chat today (ERR: Up Since 5AM, running on fumes), so I'm going to back out since there's quorum without me today
[19:05] <teward> (I need to sleeep..... >.<)
[19:05] <ddstreet> ok lemme get this going
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> teward: o/ rest well
[19:06] <ddstreet> #startmeeting DMB Meeting - April 19, 2021
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:06:45 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:06] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:07] <ddstreet> #topic Previous Action Items Review
[19:07] <ddstreet> oh
[19:07] <ddstreet> hmm looks like meetingology's available command list is much shorter than it used to be
[19:07] <ddstreet> anyway
[19:08] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:08] <ddstreet> carrying over still (i need to get to this, after i understand the seed tooling better)
[19:08] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:08] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[19:09] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet to reduce the scope of meeting scheduling mistakes
[19:09] <ddstreet> pretty sure this was done last mtg, but definitely done now
[19:09] <ddstreet> #subtopic rbasak to resolve Alex's request for an alternate meeting venue/time for his application
[19:09] <ddstreet> was that already done last mtg?
[19:10] <rbasak> Done
[19:10] <rbasak> It's the next meeting
[19:10] <ddstreet> ok
[19:10] <ddstreet> #subtopic rbasak to handle GunnarHj core-dev rights, announcement, and post-coredev packageset/acl cleanups
[19:10] <rbasak> Also done
[19:10] <ddstreet> great thnx
[19:11] <ddstreet> ok that moves us on to the PPU application from mhcerri
[19:11] <mhcerri> o/
[19:11] <ddstreet> #topic Marcelo Cerri DKMS upload rights application
[19:11] <ddstreet> hi mhcerri can you introduce yourself?
[19:11] <mhcerri> sure
[19:12] <ddstreet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarceloCerri/DkmsUploadApplication
[19:12] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarceloCerri/DkmsUploadApplication
[19:12] <ddstreet> sorry go ahead
[19:12] <mhcerri> hi, my name is Marcelo Cerri. I work on the kernel team for almost 5 years now. I'm currently working with our cloud kernels and with the stable team
[19:13] <rbasak> mhcerri: hello! Do you have any recent sponsored DKMS fixing uploads?
[19:15] <mhcerri> hi, rbasak. I don't think I have uploaded one this year.. we usually work on them when we have a new kernel, but I haven't worked on it in the last kernels we released
[19:15] <sil2100> mhcerri: related to rbasak's question - why do you want to apply for DKMS upload rights? How does the lack of them affect you right now?
[19:16] <ddstreet> for clarification/reference, here's the link to the kernel-dkms packageset current list of packages:
[19:16] <ddstreet> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/hirsute/kernel-dkms
[19:17] <mhcerri> hi, sil2100. the lack of dkms upload rights, make it hard to me to help fixing those packages when we prepare new kernels. and that causes more overhead usually inside the kernel team because we need an additional person to review those uploads
[19:17] <rbasak> I'm sure I've seen DKMS package fixes being uploaded recently. Do you know who has been sponsoring those?
[19:18] <mhcerri> and just to make clear, that's not a work that we need to do only when a new ubuntu version is released, we also do the same kind of work for LTSs when we update our hwe and hwe-edge kernerls
[19:19] <mhcerri> rbasak, do you mean for hirsute?
[19:19] <rbasak> IIRC they were for stable releases, eg. Focal.
[19:20] <sil2100> mhcerri: thanks o/
[19:20] <mhcerri> rbasak, I don't know who has sponsored the latest uploads. but Timo and Alberto usually help with that. Tyler used to do that too in the past
[19:21] <rbasak> OK
[19:21] <rbasak> ...
[19:21] <rbasak> The DMB doesn't normally grant permissions "pre-emptively", and expects to see an established track record in the specific area that an applicant wants to upload in, together with endorsements from sponsor(s) who have actually sponsored specific and recent work in this area.
[19:22] <rbasak> So here I would expect to see:
[19:23] <rbasak> 1) Recent sponsored uploads prepared by you for DKMS package updates; and 2) endorsements from your sponsors of that work affirming your readiness specifically for that work.
[19:23] <ddstreet> it looks like the only upload for 2021 is dkms, sponsored by timo for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkms/+bug/1915051
[19:23] <mhcerri> ddstreet, yes. I believe that's correct
[19:23] <rbasak> See the final bullet point under "When to apply for team membership" at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
[19:24] <rbasak> You said above "that causes more overhead usually inside the kernel team because we need an additional person to review those uploads" - but IMHO that's the point - there should be someone experienced providing a code review.
[19:25] <rbasak> What I suggest you do is be the person "on point" preparing all the DKMS package uploads for your team, and get sponsorship for them - maybe by finding a dedicated mentor who can upload these packages.
[19:25] <rbasak> Once you have an established track record, and your mentor says you're ready, then I'd be happy to provide a +1.
[19:25] <rbasak> In the meantime, IMHO it's entirely appropriate that you get code review prior to upload.
[19:26] <rbasak> Other DMB member opinions may vary.
[19:27] <ddstreet> mhcerri for that dkms bug 1915051, did you (or your sponsor) have to adjust anything in your debdiff(s) for the actual uploaded and released packages?
[19:27] <mhcerri> rbasak, so do you think I should apply again when I have more recent uploads? I don't think it will be possible for me to be the person preparing all the DKMS upload for the team due to the volume of work that it represents
[19:28] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: I kind of agree with what you say based on the need (lack of recent uploads show no current bottleneck to have less uploaders/reviewers). At the same time what you are saying is somehow provided in his application.
[19:28] <rbasak> mhcerri: I think so, yes. If there's more work then you can do then that's no problem. I was only suggesting that you do "all" so as to get an established track record as quickly as possible. It isn't a requirement.
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> 12 sponsored dkms uploads in 2020
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> is what he shows in his application
[19:29] <rbasak> What I've suggested to teams before where there's been a bottleneck is to focus on one person at a time getting upload permission, just so that this one person gets the maxmium experience and that increases the number uploaders in the quickest way.
[19:29] <mhcerri> ddstreet, I might be wrong, but as far as I remember no adjustments were necessary
[19:30] <ddstreet> mhcerri the version numbers in particular; were your chosen version numbers correct for all releases?
[19:30] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: I don't see those?
[19:30] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: Examples of my work / Things I'm proud of in his application page ?
[19:31] <rafaeldtinoco> I see a bunch of sponsored uploads sponsored by Tyler, Timo, Andy, etc
[19:32] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: maybe I'm missing something but I don't see *any* DKMS package uploads in 2020. Do you have an example of one so I can figure out why our views differ here please?
[19:33] <rafaeldtinoco> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/FM2aBZTc/
[19:33] <mhcerri> ddstreet, I would have to check that. I don't remember any feedback regarding that (which doesn't mean it wasn't necessary)
[19:33] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry, wasnt supposed to be a pastebin
[19:34] <ddstreet> mhcerri the final version number for groovy was slightly changed, maybe by the sponsor, you appended ...ubuntu1 while for a stable release it should be ubuntu0.1 or ubuntu0.20.04.1
[19:34] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: ah that is one, yes.
[19:34] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: sysdig wireguard were uploaded in 2020 (beginning of)
[19:35] <ddstreet> for focal the version technically should have been changed to ...ubuntu1.1 instead of ubuntu2, but that's ok
[19:35] <ddstreet> version numbers are difficult minutae of the process
[19:35] <mhcerri> ddstreet, you are right
[19:35] <rbasak> Ah I didn't realise those two were DKMS.
[19:35] <sil2100> They seem to be on the dkms packageset
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> in that list, removing linux only uploads
[19:36] <ddstreet> rbasak sil2100 i put a link to the packageset at the start of the topic
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> we have sysdig, bcmwl, wireguard, etc
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> it looks to me like a good set of examples
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> of dkms uploads.. if we consider that packageset is small
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> and uploads since xenial show experience
[19:37] <rbasak> OK so with my apologies let me look again
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> tku
[19:38] <mhcerri> rbasak, I filtered some packages in the application page because it's hard to find them in udd because the majority of my uploads are kernels
[19:39] <rbasak> mhcerri: thanks. I wanted to see a list of specifically *DKMS* package uploads, most recent first - and I saw linux-base and didn't realise wireguard and sysdig were DKMS.
[19:41] <ddstreet> are we wrapped up on questions?
[19:41] <rafaeldtinoco> mhcerri: why would I use ubuntu0~ or ubuntu0+ in versioning ? which is bigger ?
[19:42] <mhcerri> rafaeldtinoco, + makes it bigger and ~ makes it smaller. so I would use ~ when I need to backport a package to an older ubuntu series
[19:43] <ddstreet> any further q?
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> im ok
[19:44] <sil2100> All good here
[19:44] <ddstreet> ok let's proceed to voting!
[19:44] <ddstreet> #vote Marcelo Cerri DKMS upload rights application
[19:44] <meetingology> Please vote on: Marcelo Cerri DKMS upload rights application
[19:44] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[19:44] <ddstreet> #voters rbasak sil2100 rafaeldtinoco teward ddstreet
[19:44] <meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet, rafaeldtinoco, rbasak, sil2100, teward
[19:45] <rafaeldtinoco> +1
[19:45] <meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
[19:46] <sil2100> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[19:47] <rbasak> +1 I think you barely crossed the line in terms of regular DMB expectations for recent relevant experience and endorsements and need to unblock, but I think that given I'm on the fence, I'll accept your long previous track record. Please sync up with existing DKMS sponsors and uploaders before uploading.
[19:47] <meetingology> +1 I think you barely crossed the line in terms of regular DMB expectations for recent relevant experience and endorsements and need to unblock, but I think that given I'm on the fence, I'll accept your long previous track record. Please sync up with existing DKMS sponsors and uploaders before uploading. received from rbasak
[19:47] <ddstreet> +1 happy with endorsements and previous uploads, even if there is a months-long gap since the last significant number of uploads; the quality of actual code changes appears good which is the most important thing (to me); please do try to watch the small details of uploads though please
[19:47] <meetingology> +1 happy with endorsements and previous uploads, even if there is a months-long gap since the last significant number of uploads; the quality of actual code changes appears good which is the most important thing (to me); please do try to watch the small details of uploads though please received from ddstreet
[19:47] <mhcerri> rbasak, thanks!
[19:47] <rafaeldtinoco> I like this approach also, doing a peer review before uploading.
[19:48] <mhcerri> ddstreet, I will do. thank!
[19:48] <ddstreet> #endvote
[19:48] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Marcelo Cerri DKMS upload rights application
[19:48] <meetingology> Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[19:48] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:48] <ddstreet> congrats!
[19:48] <rafaeldtinoco> mhcerri: congrats!
[19:48] <rafaeldtinoco> and do peer reviews before uploads, its always good (we all do)
[19:48] <mhcerri> thank you, everyone!
[19:48] <mhcerri> rafaeldtinoco, I totally agree
[19:49] <mhcerri> I will do for sure
[19:49] <ddstreet> ok i have to step away in a minute, i think last thing we have is mailing list requests
[19:49] <ddstreet> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:50] <mhcerri> let me know if you need any further action for me. and thanks again
[19:50] <ddstreet> #subtopic https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-April/001676.html
[19:50] <ddstreet> mhcerri nope you're all good, thanks!
[19:50] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco can you look at this one, i think it just needs pkgs added to openstack pkgset
[19:50] <rafaeldtinoco> its mine!
[19:50] <rafaeldtinoco> i did it before
[19:50] <rafaeldtinoco> will do this one
[19:50] <ddstreet> awesome
[19:51] <ddstreet> #subtopic https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html
[19:51] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco can you look at that also? i updated the pkgset in the stable releases, but i dont think it worked in hirsute
[19:51] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: ill check
[19:52] <ddstreet> thanks
[19:53] <ddstreet> ah i forgot to add action for someone to handle mhcerri addition to the pkgset team, anyone want that?
[19:53] <rafaeldtinoco> i got my plate full with those 2
[19:53] <rafaeldtinoco> :o)
[19:53] <ddstreet> ack, i can take it
[19:53] <rafaeldtinoco> tku
[19:53] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet add mhcerri to dkms packageset team
[19:53] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet add mhcerri to dkms packageset team
[19:54] <ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-April/001676.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html
[19:54] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-April/001676.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html
[19:54] <ddstreet> looks like next chair is sil2100 in 2 weeks
[19:54] <ddstreet> #topic AOB
[19:54] <ddstreet> anything else from anyone?
[19:55] <rafaeldtinoco> tks for chairing ddstreet
[19:55] <ddstreet> np!
[19:55] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[19:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:55:11 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-04-19-19.06.moin.txt
[19:55] <ddstreet> thanks all o/
[19:55] <rafaeldtinoco> o/ tku all as well
[19:58] <sil2100> o/