[01:38] <wyoung> Walex: Ah yes, I have heard of that.  I wasn't sure on the acronym though.
[01:39] <wyoung> Morning by the way :)
[04:27] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[04:34] <wyoung> .o/
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> whats the .
[04:40] <wyoung> lotuspsychje: shoulder
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> shoulder should be flat?
[04:41] <wyoung> as o/ culd be mistaken for a Heil Hitler!
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> -O/
[04:41] <wyoung> Maybe if you are a meathead
[04:42] <wyoung> Or you wear clothes fromthe 80s
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:45] <ducasse> good morning
[07:53] <[VMGuy23]> Good morning
[12:12] <wyoung> Good evening!
[12:12] <wyoung> Lets discuss!
[12:43] <shailangsa>  can anybody recommend a good laptop to run ubuntu on?
[12:44] <daftykins> define your needs
[12:46] <shailangsa> something which can be used for building android?
[12:48] <daftykins> hrmm that's a very weird and specific use-case
[12:49] <tomreyn> at least 2 GHz dual-core processor, 4 GB of RAM and 25 GB of free disk space is recommended
[12:53] <shailangsa> looking for one which would be able to install windows 8.1 on it?
[12:54] <tomreyn> there's ##windows for windows questions
[12:55] <shailangsa> EFI secure boots prevents the laptop from running any other OS?
[12:56] <tomreyn> not normally
[13:00] <tomreyn> if you want a computer which can run both ubuntu and windows in parallel, by running one of the two in a VM (a lot more convenient than a multi-boot setup in my opinion) then you'll probably want one with at least 8 GB RAM, at least 4 cpu threads, and a system produced in the past 10 years
[13:03] <shailangsa> thinking a high spec lenovo or Dell/HP/Asus/Acer?
[13:04] <daftykins> 8 is old now, not smart
[13:05] <shailangsa> huawei notebook?
[13:14] <tomreyn> shailangsa: how much do you plan to pay? which country will you buy in?
[13:14] <tomreyn> i wouldn't immediately choose by brand
[13:15] <shailangsa> ~£800, UK. I want to avoid any OEM which prevents UEFI secure boot from being disabled?
[13:16] <tomreyn> you prefer to no boot in uefi mode?
[13:16] <tomreyn> oh uefi secure boot, ok
[13:16] <daftykins> and you're married to the idea of a laptop? because you should bear in mind they're always weaker in performance terms
[13:16] <TJ-> building the complete android needs a LOT of oomph
[13:16] <shailangsa> i have a desktop already
[13:17] <daftykins> so why do you want to buy a potentially weaker system for a serious task?
[13:18] <shailangsa> something which is capable of it but wouldnt be used for it on a daily basis?
[13:22] <tomreyn> shailangsa: it might be better to build it remotely then, using the laptop just as a remote control
[13:22] <daftykins> +1 to that, assuming the desktop is of a decent spec
[13:23] <tomreyn> could also build 'in the cloud'
[13:23] <shailangsa> where could i build it?
[13:23] <tomreyn> if you still want to build locally on the laptop, i'd go for this, roughly: this would be my preferences for https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=nb&v=k&hloc=uk&sort=t&bl1_id=30&xf=12823_6%7E6763_Ryzen+4000%7E6763_Ryzen+5000%7E6763_Ryzen+PRO+4000%7E8150_AMD
[13:24] <tomreyn> any of the public clouds would work, or a rented dedicated server, too (but that's likely more expensive)
[13:25] <shailangsa> would it come with a linux distro ready for use or require installation?
[13:49] <tomreyn> shailangsa: this is not linux specific, so you'll need to check the details. there are some companies which sell computer with ubuntu pre-installed.
[13:54] <tomreyn> system76 is one, tuxedo computers is another. lotuscomputers is yet another. there's some lenovo and some dell systems. and there is purism, which sell computers with linux (not ubuntu, i think, but it serves a sa proof of concept / linux support) pre-installed
[13:56] <tomreyn> but i think you'll pay more with all of them for a system with acceptable specifications
[13:56] <shailangsa> acer/HP/Asus OK for running ubuntu in terms of no restrictions placed by the OEM regarding the OS?
[13:57] <tomreyn> the defaults may not work for installing and running ubuntu, you often need to make some changes to the bios configuration
[13:58] <tomreyn> but if this saves you some hundred bucks, it could be worth it.
[13:59] <daftykins> older generation Thinkpads are a great way to do it on a budget
[13:59] <daftykins> from ebay
[14:00] <tomreyn> https://linux-hardware.org/?view=computers can be a way to check whether a given model is going to work.
[14:01] <shailangsa> thinkpad is their top tier model?
[14:02] <TJ-> and newer. we paid ~ £550 for our Lenovo Thinkpad E495s with Ryzen 7 3700U
[14:02] <TJ-> I think they're more expensive now due to the shortages though
[14:02] <TJ-> replaced the standard 8GB RAM with 32GB and used daily to build Linux kernel and more
[14:03] <shailangsa> where did you buy it?
[14:09] <TJ-> shailangsa: directly from Lenovo
[14:09] <TJ-> I bought 6
[14:10] <shailangsa> lenovo support seems good
[14:12] <TJ-> shailangsa: ha! no! it's provided by IBM Global Technical Services, with warranty repairs done by Flex ... we've sent one back and are in big arguments with them since they claim CID (Customer Induced Damage) and ththe issues happened from day #1
[14:12] <TJ-> shailangsa: we're preparing to embarrass Lenovo with a satirical posting over social media.
[14:13] <TJ-> shailangsa: but the devices themselves are good workhorses
[14:13] <shailangsa> what issue?
[14:14] <TJ-> the ethernet port on the right had bent retaining tabs so once a cable was plugged in, it wouldn't release. Then we noticed hairline cracks developing over time at top-right and bottom-right of the upper keyboard cover. We've since spotted that last issue on 2 others
[14:14] <TJ-> we *think* it is a bad batch
[14:15] <TJ-> as in, there are not widespread reports matching what we've seen. We bought these as soon as they were released in March 2020 so bad early batch is feasible
[14:16] <TJ-> but it mostly just-works for Linux (a couple of niggles with amdgpu driver code-churn causing regressions, and TPM handling - that's generic to the kernel though, not make/model specific)
[14:18] <shailangsa> running ubuntu bare metal?
[14:21] <TJ-> yes
[14:21] <TJ-> well, running the *kernel* bare metal - the OS doesn't touch the metal!
[14:25] <shailangsa> do you have only one instance of it or can you boot from other hard drives too?
[14:28] <TJ-> shailangsa: how do you mean?
[14:28] <TJ-> shailangsa: can boot from external USB devices, yes
[14:57] <shailangsa> have you thought about getting one from HP/Dell/Acer/Asus?
[15:00] <TJ-> we evaluated all but at that time Lenovo were the first to have something deliverable with Ryzen 7 mobile chipset in
[15:00] <TJ-> AND that would sell it without an operating system installed
[15:01] <TJ-> ^^^ that was a fun part when we returned the faulty system... Flex reported the SSD failed and quoted £85 to replace it... because, presumably, the techie expected it to boot to Windows (we'd wiped the SSD before returning it)
[15:03] <shailangsa> does not having an OS pre-installed matter, is it just a case of wiping the SSD/hard drive and installing ubuntu on it?
[15:03]  * ogra points to https😕/certification.ubuntu.com/desktop
[15:04] <ogra> bah ... sorry ... the hexchat emoji plugin always messes up URLs
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> !hardware
[15:04] <ogra> certification.ubuntu.com/desktop
[15:04] <ogra> there is quite a bunch of laptops listed
[15:05] <shailangsa> seems Asus isn't supported
[15:05] <ogra> yeah but dell, lenovo and HP
[15:11] <Metamorphosis> https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/plasma-desktop-awesome.html
[15:35] <Maik> meh
[15:43] <shailangsa> seems like many of the latest laptops don't come with an ethernet port?
[15:44] <Maik> errrr.... lol
[15:44] <Maik> let me guess, Crapple
[15:53] <TJ-> shailangsa: not having an OS (windows) saves money usually, plus speaks to the kind of support you can expect with Linux on it later (or at least understanding)
[18:05] <shailangsa> going to get a thinkpad as they're one of the few laptops with ethernet ports, do they come with touch screen?
[18:07] <TJ-> hopefully not! that's another thing I like about them... no fingerprints all over
[18:32] <shailangsa> do you know of a laptop which come with an ethernet port and a touch screen?
[18:55] <tomreyn> shailangsa: that's an unusual configuration, because those with touch are meant to be presentation-style (usually with fully-foldable screen hinges), extra flat and don't have room for ethernet.
[18:55] <tomreyn> shailangsa: and those with ethernet are usually used by people who to get work done, not their screens dirty while looking cool
[18:57] <tomreyn> there are a few thinkpad yoga models which have a touchscreen and this extendable rj45 connector, though
[18:57] <tomreyn> those aren't your price class, though, cost twice and more
[19:18] <shailangsa> how about the dell latitude ones?
[19:25] <TJ-> shailangsa: on my Asus T300CHI transformer I used an external USB3 ethernet adapter
[19:27] <tomreyn> i would recommend against chooosing hardware by brand names as a primary criteria / selector.
[19:31] <tripelb>  -- THIS Page explains about internal IP addresses and external AND gives you your external IP address - It's just there automatically on the page, nothing to fill out no special requests. (This is so good that maybe even it should be on ubottu.)
[19:33] <tripelb> All I wanted was my IP address so I could ping myself from one device to another. It seemed elite and difficult. I don't know the terminal command that would do it but this website does. Yay.
[19:34] <shailangsa> tihking of avoiding external ethernet adapter seeing as the laptop will be connected to various other usb devices like external hard drive etc which may use up the USB bandwidth?
[19:34] <daftykins> no, but avoiding a dongle is always nice
[19:34] <daftykins> plenty of machines still with wired
[19:35] <daftykins> tripelb: you don't need to use a site to get your own IPs
[19:36] <TJ-> tripelb: "curl https://iam.tj/myip.php"
[19:37] <tripelb> daftykins (I remember you being around here years and years and years ago.) I asked in hash Ubuntu and couldn't figure out how to do it. I search for it. Oh I'll try that curl one. I'll have to look up the command curl too because I've never used it before.  I'm a long user of (only) basic bash.
[19:40] <tripelb> I've got this problem where my 20.04 locks up every two days. Okay it's less with Firefox than with Chrome. All I am using is 30 some tabs in only one browser at a time, IRC, and occasional really simple thing like an update in terminal, and maybe gedit of whatever passes for that these days. (And occasionally zoom. And discord. And cheese but not
[19:40] <tripelb> with zoom, lol one after the time for the camera thank you very much.)
[19:41] <daftykins> total freeze with the same image of your desktop still present, is it?
[19:41] <tripelb> shailangsao sArnold suggested that I keep running terminal on my phone and ping my computer and that'll give me some information when I look at my phone after the computer clutches up. I don't know how it works but then I can ask again.) _ any and all information and help is welcome.
[19:41] <daftykins> and yep guilty as charged, put in a good decade over in #ubuntu ;)
[19:42] <tripelb> Yeah when I say total freeze I mean something's going on in the background that I don't know about. I think that IRC keeps going. I'll have to check the next time it does that. I'll send an IRC message from my phone and see if the computer gets it. - also my computer beeps and I have no idea what's making the beep. I assume it's some kind of notifi
[19:42] <tripelb> cation. ... Or maybe it's alive and just waking up!!!!!
[19:43] <tripelb> That long word of the first end of the line that look like nonsense is nonsense. This app for some reason.. If I start a line with something that can possibly merge into a user ID of someone who's in the channel - - it will put their user ID in there instead of my word. I've given up on that I'm not worried.
[19:44] <daftykins> probably wouldn't hurt to run a memtest regardless if you haven't already
[19:44] <tripelb> --- If I don't be too fragmented, now that I have your attention, is there some text program that's simple almost like g added but will allow me to have clickable links in it? (Mac has had that since way back in the last century.
[19:45] <tripelb> I will be happy to run a memtest. Is this the kind that checks the RAM memory or the kind of the checks my hard drive memory?
[19:46] <tripelb> (apologies typos++It is speech to text but anything but the fin al six or eight words scrolls off so I can't see it to check and proofread.)
[19:46] <daftykins> you'd know if your hard disk's cache memory was bad, but i'd hope you're on an SSD :D
[19:47] <tripelb> Okay I see it's RAM. Nope I'm not on an SSD. I think what I get in cash per month is about a third of the living wage they're trying to pass on the federal level -- which is almost here in California already.
[19:48] <tripelb> I have a hand me down Dell, half height, I'll have to figure out how old it is.
[19:48] <tripelb> I have two other computers that are desktops that I might be able to put together to make one that works. There is a display conflict in one of them and the hard drive is dead in the other. Detective work is in order.
[19:49] <tripelb> - okay I'll be back in a little while when I've done some things on the computer
[19:51] <daftykins> under £30 for an SSD now, treat yourself :D
[19:53] <TJ-> tripelb: you want to use just bash? exec 9</dev/tcp/iam.tj/80; echo -en "GET /myip.php HTTP/1.1\r\nHost: iam.tj\r\n\r\n" >&9 ; cat <&9
[19:54] <TJ-> oh and "exec 9<&-" to disconnect/close the FD
[22:23] <shailangsa> is it recommended to buy a refurbished laptop rather than a brand new one to run ubuntu on?
[22:25] <jeremy31> shailangsa: Some new ones are fine to run ubuntu on, I bought a HP a few years ago with a touch screen, ethernet port, but it did have Intel graphics only.  I have a 7 year old Lenovo that ran Ubuntu 20.10 fine
[22:35] <tomreyn> what "refurbished" means exactly is undefined. if battery life matters to you (why else would you get a laptop?), then you may need to buy a replacement battery, and may need to install it yourself, potentially loosing any warranty, and risking to not reassemble the computer properly. it also drives up the overall price.
[22:36] <daftykins> a pretty early decision will be whether battery life matters at all, or just portability between power sources :D
[23:03] <shailangsa> which HP with a touch screen and ethernet port?
[23:06] <tomreyn> there are a couple product (feature) / price comparison sites out there, pick one.
[23:09] <jeremy31> shailangsa: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077V38BC4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[23:17] <shailangsa> it seems the new laptops by HP et al do come with ethernet ports but it's jsut that they are categorized as mobile workstations