[02:21] <OvenWrks> teward: if that is the case... the installer needs to check and complain rather than quit
[02:27] <OvenWrks> well not actually quit, pretend it is continuing but doing nothing... even worse
[04:37] <OvenWrks> ubuntustudio does not require an efi partition :)
[04:39] <OvenWrks> but the installer does suggest going back and creating one
[04:50] <OvenWrks> snd-fireworks still fails to initialize.
[04:50] <OvenWrks> (20.04 is the last release with a snd-fireworks that works)
[05:12] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: can we add zita-njbridge to the seed?
[05:38] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: I can see the troubles with controls on 2110
[05:39] <OvenWrks> but works fine on 20.04 :P
[07:07] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: prolly will be a 2.1.66 tomorrow.
[07:15] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer: do you think it is a good idea to seek OEM partnership for Ubuntu Studio? promoting as a production-ready audio/video OS that could come pre-installed. feel free to DM me if this is not the right place for the discussion.
[07:27] <OvenWrks> freenode?
[12:40] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: I was going to add zita-njbridge to recommends for controls, so that won't be an issue. As far as issues with 21.10 goes, I haven't noticed any (currently on impish).
[12:42] <Eickmeyer> MauroGaspari[m]: Considering I work for a Linux OEM and am fairly high-ranking, that's not an issue. It's very possible we'll do laptops with Studio pre-installed on them.
[12:42] <Eickmeyer>  That said, it's one of the reasons I'm considering changing away from Calamares and back to Ubiquity unless this new installer does what is advertised.
[12:46]  * Eickmeyer is up way early for no good reason
[12:49] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer cool. However, isn't canonical switching all the installers from ubiquity to.. err what was it called? Flutter based. Doesn't it make more sense to wait and switch to that one as well? Sorry, I am not entirely up to speed on the matter, so I am asking, not arguing. 😅
[12:50] <Eickmeyer> MauroGaspari[m]: That's exactly what I was referring to.
[12:57] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer got it, thanks. Do we have a name for new installer yet? Easier to reference to the specific item if it has a name 😅
[12:57] <Eickmeyer> I wish. :P
[13:04] <MauroGaspari[m]> Ah, ok. Fine. I pick a name: Flubutter (flutter ubuntu installer).
[13:04] <MauroGaspari[m]> And this is why I don't work in marketing 😆😆😆😆
[16:28] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: controls 2.1.66 needs packaging
[16:29] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: I will note that the current studio installer worked for me when kubuntu's did not
[16:34] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: In the case of both, if an efi partition is missing, some instruction on: what size it should be, and how to make one would be nice... something that in the manual partition does a "wrap this / partition in an efi" for example. None of the auto partition choices allow one to use an existing partiton (or at least are not labeled that way)
[16:34] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: That's not within the scope/ability of Calamares to do.
[16:34] <Eickmeyer> It should automatically configure it.
 and the EFI is a *separate* partition
 i don't know what your Cala is doing, but I know the Lubuntu Cala warns about the missing EFI partition
 it doesn't tell you what to set, etc. but it does warn about it
 and if you're doing manual partitioning, you should already know how to look up these things.
 "manual partitioning" is one of those cases where you should probably know what you're doing rather than blindly run into it
[16:36] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: I personally have a motherboard that will deal with either but it is easiest for me to not install it.
[16:36] <OvenWrks> teward: read the back scroll
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> If you're using manual partitioning, it is expected that you know what you're doing. That's not a "hold your hand" type situation.
[16:36] <OvenWrks> that may be, but none of the other options do a use this partition
 > ubuntustudio does not require an efi partition :)
 yes i read that
 however Cala isn't smart about that
 just saying
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> An EFI partition isn't required if you don't have an EFI system.
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> But, yes, Cala isn't smart about that.
 right, it's up to you whether you have to ignore the warning or not
 again, an 'expert functionality'
[16:38] <OvenWrks> teward: in the case where a person is not willing to give up a whole drive to an install, does not want to use up all the left over space but rather use an existing partition... they then have tpo be expert? Bad installer
[16:38] <Eickmeyer> It will automatically make an EFI partition if one is required.
 insert "manual partitioning is not for the weak-hearted" as a disclaimer on any installer
[16:39] <Eickmeyer> But only *if* the system is an EFI system.
 ^^
 there's a bug in core Ubuntu installer that even if it doesn't need the EFI the system will create the partition, not sure if it's fixed, I don't think Cala's any different.  As for 'use an existing partition', though, Cala and Installers are not smart enough to determine which system is which when you're doing manual partitioning
[16:40] <OvenWrks> teward: that part is understood, but using a pre-existing partition is not "expert" use and should be covered in an option.
 so if I go into the Subiquity server installer, the Ubuntu installer, KDE installer, Lubuntu installer, etc. it will still throw that warning
[16:40] <OvenWrks> Cala worked for me
 OvenWrks: Cala's not smart enough is what we're saying
 and I don't think there's a way to *make* it smart enough in those cases
 hence why the *warning* exists
[16:40] <OvenWrks> the kubuntu installer is worse
[16:41] <Eickmeyer> Kubuntu uses Ubiquity, which is what we used to use.
[16:41] <teward> which is what Core Ubuntu uses
[16:41] <teward> Ubuntu Server uses subiquity
[16:41] <OvenWrks> which is broken
[16:41] <Eickmeyer> Well, it is in the middle of a development cycle.
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> And is up for replacement anyhow.
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> Ubiquity is going the way of the dodo.
[16:43] <OvenWrks> There may be such a thing already, but a don't install grub to a boot sector would be nice too.
[16:44] <OvenWrks> generally, I have my daily use desktop which has installed grub, anything else is down the grub menu on that
[16:53] <Eickmeyer> EFI doesn't use the boot sector, but an entirely separate partition.
[16:56] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: The workaround for that is to run grub-install from the installation you want to manage grub.
[16:56] <Eickmeyer> Then, of course, update-grub to make sure you've got access to the other installation(s).
[16:59] <OvenWrks> That is what I do. I think an installer could do that for me though :)
[17:13] <Eickmeyer> No, that's beyond the scope and would require several chroots to do so.
[17:29] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: or a rework of grub... perhaps just a daunting
[17:29] <OvenWrks> *as
[17:46] <OvenWrks> Anyway, I got Studio 21.10 installed, found the bugs in controls that happen with no pre-existing config and fixed them. When it is packaged I can try it again. (the HDMI bug I mentioned is fixed)
[17:48] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: when do I have to have 2.2 tagged? anything from 2.1.66 to 2.2 should be bug fixes only.
[17:49] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: We're in Impish, so if it's bug fixes only, you're already set. FF wasn't until end of August.
[18:34] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Something is wrong: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RMWWHjbYWN/
[18:34] <Eickmeyer> That's 2.1.66
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Downgraded to .65, no issues.
 .66 has an extra `)` on that line, easy code fix
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Exactly. I could even do it myself manually.
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> But, since it's a problem in OvenWrks's code, it needs to be fixed in the upstream.
 yep
[18:55] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: thank you.
[19:21] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: controls tag 2.1.67 I think I got all the spelling and puctuation fixed :P
[19:24]  * OvenWrks is working remotely
[19:45] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Uploading now.
[19:53] <wonko> o/
[19:53] <Eickmeyer> o/
[19:53] <Eickmeyer> Welcome back!
[19:54] <wonko> It's good to be back, can't wait to move and get setup again
[19:54] <wonko> then I can start helping in earnest finally. :)
[19:57] <Eickmeyer> \o/
[20:26] <wonko> And maybe actually find time to work on some music as well finally. :)
[21:04] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: I don't know what it is, but I noticed this last time too: controls opens up about 7 qasmixers when I stop jack.
[21:06] <wonko> 21.04?
[21:06] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: which version? That should be fixed now 67
[21:06] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Oh, that was 66. Haven't tried 67 yet.
[21:06] <wonko> How's 21.04 over all?
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> It's good, wonko! We're working on 21.10 now.
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Rather, 65.
[21:07] <wonko> US 21.04 is still X and not wayland, right?
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> wonko: For Studio, yes. For Ubuntu proper, it's wayland.
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> Switchable at login.
[21:07] <wonko> what was the reason for that?
[21:07] <wonko> something with wayland not playing nice with studio?
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> X11 is no longer developed.
[21:08] <wonko> I ran wayland years ago, I'm familiar with what it is. :-D
[21:08] <Eickmeyer> Oh, you mean the reason Studio stayed on X? Because Plasma is still best on X.
[21:08] <Eickmeyer> It's getting better with Wayland slowly. Still a few wrinkles, but it's not bad. I've played with it.
[21:08] <wonko> so basically studio will stay X until plasma is cool with wayland?
[21:08] <Eickmeyer> Pretty much. I think we're following Kubuntu's lead on this one.
[21:09] <wonko> It really doesn't matter to me honestly, whatever works. :)
[21:09] <wonko> We just need to see how long it takes me to hate Plasma. :-D
[21:10]  * OvenWrks has been good with Plasma so far
[21:10] <OvenWrks> (anything not to have to use gnome
[21:11] <wonko> I've been pretty much exclusively on Xfce ever since ditching SunOS/OpenLook :)
[21:13] <Eickmeyer> Well, not that you *have* to go Plasma, becuase you can always install Xubuntu and then ubuntustudio-installer. We're not just a distro, we're a toolkit.
[21:14] <wonko> Yeah, I get that
[21:14] <wonko> but I'm open to change if Plasma is better
[21:14] <wonko> if I can make it work the way I want that's all I really care about
[21:14] <Eickmeyer> Exactly.
[21:15] <wonko> and my requirements are pretty simple so it shouldn't be too hard. :)
[21:16] <wonko> And if notifications work better than on Xfce that would be a win. :)
[21:18] <wonko> Speaking of things I would want it to do... My next monitor will be a single large widescreen one as opposed to two 16:9 panels. Does Plasma (or any other X type thing) have something similar to the tools windows does for window layout on a large display?
[21:20] <wonko> Like, could I setup regions to snap to? Kinda like snap left/right but add a middle area and have three spots to snap to?
[21:20] <Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, that's a limitation of X in that it doesn't do that. Believe me, I've tried.  But, if it's a single large widescreen, it shouldn't be a problem because it'll be detected as 3840x1080 or whatever its native resolution is.
[21:21] <wonko> Yeah, I'm looking at 5120x1440 and it would be super dope to be able to have three "columns" for the windows to snap to. The one in the middle being the primary one (where I'll do most of my coding, etc) and the edges will be for chat/web/etc
[21:22] <Eickmeyer> Oh, divide it into 3rds. I see what you're saying.
[21:22] <wonko> yeah, the other option is something like awesome, but I'm not sure I want to deal with that. :)
[21:23] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I don't know of a single DE that does that.
[21:23] <wonko> Yeah, the only think I know that does that is some third party tools for windows
[21:23] <Eickmeyer> Lemme see if someone made a Plasma or Kwin script that does that.
[21:23] <wonko> never having owned a single large monitor before it's not something I really needed to look into. :)
[21:25] <wonko> https://store.kde.org/p/1276605/
[21:25] <wonko> you pointed me in the correct direction for what to search. :)
[21:25] <Eickmeyer> Oh, perfect!
[21:25] <Eickmeyer> Means Plasma is the only DE I know of that does that. haha
[21:28] <wonko> looking at the kwin scripts there are some really useful looking things there
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> It's infinitely extensible.
[21:31] <wonko> Oh, before I forget, a guy I know mentioned this (19.04)
[21:31] <wonko> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Sa10pxbT/image.png
[21:31] <wonko> Don't know if this is anything that makes sense to you or not.
[21:32] <wonko> I can't say I've ever noticed that myself.
[21:52] <Eickmeyer> I never noticed that.
[22:24] <Eickmeyer> 19.04 is also long EOL, so the amount I care is nil.