[00:29] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Just experienced that USB hot-replug bug.
[04:23] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: oh yes :)
[11:11] <MauroGaspari[m]> @oven
[11:12] <MauroGaspari[m]>  * OvenWrks: Eickmeyer I was speaking with David from Ubuntu Budgie. He was wondering if it was time to try and replace pulseaudio with pipewire. I advised it might break compatibility with Studio Installer and Studio Controls, and I'd come here ask the experts.
[11:13] <MauroGaspari[m]> so, here I am. Could you guys please share your thoughts and advice on the matter? And if you have any, also a timeline so I could report back.
[14:11] <OvenWrks> MauroGaspari[m]: sorry, I seem to have asnwered you in the other channel #ubuntustudio
[14:11] <OvenWrks> If you can't read them there I can copy them here is needed
[14:12] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWrks: I saw it, thanks
[14:15] <MauroGaspari[m]> so the general advice would be to keep using pulseaudio until further notice? unless they don't care about studio-controls and they don't mind breaking compatibility. right?
[14:16] <OvenWrks> something like. pipewire's main reason for existing is to allow flatpacks and wayland integration. Two things that the audio comunity are not really ready for... or two things that are not ready for audio :)
[14:21] <OvenWrks> MauroGaspari[m]: in the late 90s, early 2000s there was no good audio and so much of the ALSA development was done by people who wanted profesional quality audio. Once that was reasonably acheived, those devs have moved on to other things. Thos who are left in ALSA development are mostly interested in desktop audio... which means that their idea of "low latency" follows the industry standard 
[14:21] <OvenWrks> of 30ms or so. In the proaudio world this is not low latency at all and useless for things like guitar effects, or softsynth use.
[14:22] <OvenWrks> There has (finally) been some movement to bring the USB 2.0 audio drivers into some sort of stability where at least the latency from one startup to the next is the same.
[14:25] <OvenWrks> But the reality is that USB 2.0 audio is of limited use. Broadcasting uses PCIe devices for most thing and a lot of studios use Dante devices. Most USB "studio" devices are merely "OK".
[14:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWrks: so the issue here is this, if I understand correctly. Any ubuntu flavor that ditches pulseaudio for pipewire, loses the ability to take advantage of studio-controls and studio-installer due to different audio subsystem. Which then, each flavor can decide if their priority is quick adoption of pipewire, maybe hoping that then it will push the pro-audio to catch up eventually. Or stick with pulseaudio as long as they
[14:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> can to provide studio-controls compatibility. This, I guess, until Debian/Ubuntu decide to just drop pulseaudio, which I guess will happen at some point but not so soon.
[14:32] <MauroGaspari[m]> am I getting a clear picture of what is happening and what choice ubuntu flavors have?
[14:36] <OvenWrks> SOmething like that. It may be that PW can be tweaked to only replace pulse and work ok with jack... but I can't tell that right now. I may know before 21.10 is out where things are but not in time to deal with pw for 21.10. My idea has been to work on PW for 22.04
[15:02] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWrks: Thank you so much, this helps a lot. Actually, hmm I think we might need to ask Eickmeyer to post something that is easily reachable so we can spread this to all flavors and make them aware of the status of pro-audio vs pipewire. 
[15:06] <OvenWrks> MauroGaspari[m]: in the end it is easy enough to say "if you wish to use studio on top of *" you may wish to wait or use 21.04 or whatever.
[15:06]  * OvenWrks does have other things to do besides sit in front of a computer :)
[21:12] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: is there a new version of some python3 dbus package? I get a lot of: dbus[15336]: arguments to dbus_message_new_signal() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_member (name)" failed in file ../../../dbus/dbus-message.c line 1457.
[21:12] <OvenWrks> This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.
[21:12] <OvenWrks>   D-Bus not built with -rdynamic so unable to print a backtrace
[21:13] <OvenWrks> These do not even seem to be something that relates to one of my calls to dbus :P
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> OvenWrks: Interesting. Any chance you can file a bug against that? dbus is in main.
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> teward: ^
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> (need a core-dev opinion on that, hence the ping0
[21:31] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: scratch that... I found it.
[21:31] <Eickmeyer> Oh, ok.
[21:31] <OvenWrks> I had an extra bad line in there
[21:31] <Eickmeyer> Ohhhhhh
[21:31] <Eickmeyer> teward: Cancel the ping
[21:32] <OvenWrks> I wondered why it followed me from 21.10 to 20.04 :P
[21:35] <OvenWrks> Eickmeyer: my problem is that almost everything is a dbus call so if anything goes wrong it is always an error in a dbus call
[21:35] <Eickmeyer> Figures.
[22:27] <teward> *salts Eickmeyer*
[22:27] <teward> you know once you ping via IRC it is not able to be cancelled!
[22:27] <Eickmeyer> Of course, but one can try.
[22:28] <OvenWrks> teward: not his fault
[22:33] <teward> true
[22:33] <teward> but I can still salt Eickmeyer :)
[22:33] <teward> it makes Eickmeyer a *seasoned* developer that way.
[22:33] <teward> :P
[22:33] <teward> *shows himself out*
[22:36] <wonko> Damn, I was going to say something but your response was way better. :)
[22:39] <teward> :P
[22:40] <teward> puns can be fun.  but most people groan so I tend to 'show myself out' afterwards :)