[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:00] <FourDollars> \o
[15:00] <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:00:17 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:00] <teward> o/
[15:00]  * sil2100 has a conflicting meeting so he'll be only 75% here
[15:00] <FourDollars> \o
[15:00] <rbasak> Ditto
[15:01] <teward> rbasak: we technically have 'quorate' for Utkarsh, but I think we're missing others, so give it a few to see who else shows up
[15:01] <ddstreet> o/
[15:01] <teward> if we aren't quorate for the meeting then... oh look ddstreet is here
[15:01] <rbasak> #topic
[15:01] <rbasak> #topic Long-term action items (do not need to be mentioned in regular meetings)
[15:01] <rbasak> Oh.
[15:01] <teward> rbasak: unassign the tsimonq2 task for now
[15:01] <rbasak> #info rbasak didn't mention the items not to be mentioned
[15:01] <rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:01] <teward> i know a lot more than Simon is going to reveal here but he's otherwise too busy at the moment, so someone else will need to pick that up
[15:01] <rbasak> OK
[15:02] <teward> #NotMe
[15:02] <rbasak>     ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:02] <ddstreet> need to carry over
[15:02] <rbasak>     rafaeldtinoco look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-March/001635.html (carried over)
[15:02] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco sends his apologies, so I'll carry that over
[15:02] <rbasak> teward to add amurray to core-dev
[15:03] <teward> ummmmmm
[15:03] <teward> *checks*
[15:03] <teward> yes that's done
[15:03] <rbasak> teward to announce amurray's successful application
[15:03] <teward> I *think* I did that?  I'll have to check the ML archives.
[15:03] <teward> i'm a little discomboulated today :)
[15:03] <rbasak> OK I'll leave that on for now
[15:03] <teward> discombobulated*
[15:03] <rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[15:03] <rbasak> #subtopic     [2021-06-28] Shih-Yuan Lee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ShihYuanLee/PPUApplication
[15:03] <rbasak> FourDollars: o/
[15:03] <rbasak> Would you like to introduce yourself?
[15:03] <FourDollars> \o
[15:03] <sil2100> o/
[15:04] <FourDollars> Hi
[15:04] <FourDollars> I am $4.
[15:04] <FourDollars> I am a Canonical employee.
[15:04] <FourDollars> I am a Debian developer.
[15:05] <FourDollars> I am a Ubuntu Contributing Developer.
[15:05] <FourDollars> I am a GNOME Emeritus Member.
[15:05]  * FourDollars copied from https://www.linkedin.com/in/fourdollars/.
[15:06] <rbasak> Thanks!
[15:06] <rbasak> Does anyone have any questions for FourDollars?
[15:06] <teward> *is still reading, may have questions*
[15:06] <FourDollars> I deeply involved the design of the implementaion of OEM metapackages.
[15:07] <rbasak> I have a question
[15:07] <FourDollars> Please.
[15:07] <rbasak> I understand the OEM metapackages are limited in terms of what you're supposed to upload.
[15:07] <rbasak> Can you describe those limitations, please?
[15:08] <FourDollars> It can only contain the dependencies of the Debian packages from main.
[15:09] <FourDollars> It can only contain the source list from Canonical OEM archive.
[15:09] <rbasak> Thanks!
[15:09] <rbasak> Are these documented anywhere please?
[15:09] <FourDollars> Let me check.
[15:09] <FourDollars> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam/Exceptions/OEM
[15:10] <rbasak> Great, thanks!
[15:11] <FourDollars> Cool~
[15:11] <FourDollars> Any question else?
[15:11] <ddstreet> just for clarification, you're applying to join this team, right? https://launchpad.net/~canonical-oem-metapackage-uploaders
[15:11] <FourDollars> Yes.
[15:11] <ddstreet> thanks, no other q from me
[15:12] <teward> no q from me
[15:12] <teward> *disappears for 30 seconds to obtain another coffee*
[15:13] <rbasak> Does anyone else have any questions?
[15:13] <rbasak> FourDollars: how do these packages relate to Ubuntu release cycle freezes?
[15:13] <rbasak> Do you expect to be able to upload after feature freeze, and if so, will you be using any special process for that?
[15:14] <FourDollars> rbasak: Basically OEM metapackages will on;y be related to LTS.
[15:14] <FourDollars> s/on;t/only/ typo
[15:14] <rbasak> During development of the LTS, or after?
[15:15] <FourDollars> It depends on the OEM projects' schedules.
[15:15] <rbasak> OK - so SRUs of new metapackages are a possibility?
[15:15] <FourDollars> OEM metapckages will only be expected to appear in LTS' acrhive.
[15:15] <rbasak> Do you have any expectation of changing existing metapackages in SRUs?
[15:15] <FourDollars> No, we still need to do some SRU process for it.
[15:16] <rbasak> OK, thanks.
[15:16] <rbasak> I have no further questions.
[15:16] <FourDollars> Sometimes the customer will add more platforms into the same OEM metapackage.
[15:16] <rbasak> If nobody else has questions, let's move on to the vote.
[15:16] <rbasak> #vote Grant FourDollars upload to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:16] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant FourDollars upload to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:16] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[15:17] <teward> #voters teward rbasak ddstreet sil2100
[15:17] <meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet, rbasak, sil2100, teward
[15:17] <teward> *knows evil things about the IRC side :P)
[15:17] <rbasak> lol
[15:17] <teward> +1
[15:17] <meetingology> +1 received from teward
[15:17] <sil2100> I need a minute or two o/
[15:17] <teward> yep yep
[15:17] <teward> *sips caffeine*
[15:18] <ddstreet> +1 happy with existing work setting up oem process and with endorsement, full confidence in excellent work on directly uploading oem metapkgs
[15:18] <meetingology> +1 happy with existing work setting up oem process and with endorsement, full confidence in excellent work on directly uploading oem metapkgs received from ddstreet
[15:19] <sil2100> +1
[15:19] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[15:19] <rbasak> +1
[15:19] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[15:19] <rbasak> #endvote
[15:19] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant FourDollars upload to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:19] <meetingology> Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[15:19] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:20] <rbasak> Congratulations!
[15:20] <FourDollars> Cool~ Thanks a lot.
[15:20] <teward> i'm going to be prodding permissions today anyways, so i'll take the "Assign user to group" and "Approval Notice" tasks
[15:20] <rbasak> Any volunteers for taking the actions to put that live and send the announcement?
[15:20] <rbasak> Thanks!
[15:20] <teward> (permissions across things today anyways*)
[15:20] <rbasak> #action teward to add FourDollars to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:20] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to add FourDollars to the Canonical OEM metapackage packageset
[15:20] <rbasak> #action teward to announce FourDollars' successful application
[15:20] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to announce FourDollars' successful application
[15:21] <rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
[15:21] <rbasak> #subtopic Utkarsh Gupta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtkarshGupta/CoreDevApplication
[15:21] <ddstreet> congratulations FourDollars!
[15:21] <rbasak> utkarsh: hello!
[15:21] <utkarsh> hello! o/
[15:21] <rbasak> Would you like to introduce yourself please?
[15:22] <utkarsh> I am Utkarsh, a 21 y/o. I've been a DD for about ~3 years and actively maintain packages (over ~700 uploads) & also an FTP trainee, reviewing the famous NEW queue (:D). I do a bunch of security related work in Debian as well.
[15:22] <FourDollars> ddstreet: Thx.
[15:22] <utkarsh> Since this February, I joined the Canonical's Server team and have been actively fixing & taking care of stuff. Besides day job, I also try to help and take care of the community side of things. I've written all of things down in my application. \o/
[15:22] <rbasak> (since Utkarsh is a colleague on my team, I'm intend to mostly abstain from the discussion and vote)
[15:22] <rbasak> Thanks!
[15:22] <rbasak> Questions for utkarsh?
[15:23] <teward> none from me
[15:23] <ddstreet> still reading
[15:24] <teward> utkarsh: might steal you for some PHP stuff if PHP 8 misbehaves during the transition with certain applications (and nginx fastcgi_pass stuff to FPM), but other than that, no questions for you :)
[15:24] <utkarsh> teward: haha, absolutely! \o/
[15:28] <sil2100> Ok, I think I have no questions (no capacity to ask any as well)
[15:29] <ddstreet> utkarsh it looks like you have a lot of development-release experience from the last couple months, but not very much before that, and your first upload was feb this year, is that right? https://launchpad.net/~utkarsh/+uploaded-packages
[15:30] <utkarsh> ddstreet: yep, that's correct! and is covered in my application (top part) and rbasak's and kanashiro's endorsement.
[15:30] <ddstreet> so you've only done a couple sru uploads then, right?
[15:30] <utkarsh> I've been fixing lots of Ubuntu-specific things (architecture related) in Debian so as to avoid delta and let them be in sync.
[15:30] <utkarsh> since 2020, for Focal.
[15:31] <utkarsh> that is, for ruby2.7 transition & some for Rails 6.0.
[15:31] <ddstreet> can you explain how the sru process differs from development release process?
[15:32] <utkarsh> Once an Ubuntu release has been completed and published, updates for it are only released under certain circumstances, and must follow a special procedure called a SRU. From the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates. I've done SRUs for 8 packages (bionic, focal, groovy, hirsute)
[15:33] <utkarsh> 8 different packages, that is.
[15:34] <sil2100> utkarsh: hm, actually, maybe one question: what's the difference between multiverse and universe?
[15:34] <utkarsh> Once an SRU bug template is prepared, the upload is done to the desired release. A member from the SRU team then check everything & approves or asks for more information.
[15:34] <utkarsh> should I continue describing this process?^
[15:34] <utkarsh> or skip to sil2100's question?
[15:34] <ddstreet> i'd like to hear more, but you can answer him first
[15:35] <utkarsh> sil2100: hey, universe has community-maintained free and open-source software. OTOH, multiverse has s/w restricted by copyright or legal issues.
[15:37] <utkarsh> ddstreet: okay, so once the SRU team acks an upload, it is accepted and available in -proposed. A verification is then requested by the bug submitter (preferably, which anyone can do) to ensure that the fix indeed works as intended.
[15:37] <utkarsh> and we have a wait period for 7 days to ensure everything's fine. Post that, update is available in -updates.
[15:38] <ddstreet> what do you need to include in quilt patches for srus, other than the change itself?
[15:38] <utkarsh> DEP3 headers.
[15:38] <utkarsh> to ensure others can easily track the origin, et al of the patch.
[15:39] <utkarsh> I try my best to include all DEP3 headers in all my uploads, be it SRUs or uploads to the devel release.
[15:39] <utkarsh> as a best practice :)
[15:39] <sil2100> utkarsh: thanks for the answer o/
[15:39] <utkarsh> \o/
[15:40] <ddstreet> let's say you need to fix a bug in bionic; what's your process?
[15:40] <ddstreet> assuming there is no open lp bug for the problem
[15:40] <utkarsh> ah, alrighty.
[15:42] <utkarsh> step 1: reproduce the problem. step 2: prepare the actual fix and the SRU bug template with all the necessary fields. step 3: indeed verify that the fix works fine (by maybe using a PPA or whatever's preferable - I use a PPA).
[15:42] <utkarsh> step 4: upload the package & wait for SRU team to review.
[15:42] <ddstreet> upload the pkg for bionic?
[15:44] <utkarsh> step 5: if the team approves, do the verificaition (I try to let someone else do that so we have a second pair of eyes as well). step 6: also, check for any blockers (in case there's any).
[15:45] <ddstreet> so after all that, do you then fix it for focal?
[15:45] <utkarsh> I got sponsored for isc-dhcp/4.3.5-3ubuntu7.2 for bionic.
[15:45] <utkarsh> oh yes, make sure the fix is for all the release.
[15:45] <utkarsh> I mean, make sure it's fixed in -devel, first of all.
[15:45] <ddstreet> what if it isn't?
[15:46] <utkarsh> if not, prep a fix there and watch for regressions, etc. Let it migrate. Simulteanously, prep a fix for H/G/F/B if all of them are affected.
[15:46] <ddstreet> do you need to fix anywhere else?
[15:47] <utkarsh> in case the problem is in -devel release, I'd definitely forward the fix upstream or to Debian, whatever is appropriate.
[15:47] <ddstreet> does debian need to apply the fix before we fix ubuntu?
[15:48] <utkarsh> it's not necessary but is good to know that they've accepted the fix. For instance, Debian is in a freeze at the moment, so I send MRs and make sure they're accepted at least and so on.
[15:48] <ddstreet> what if it's not fixed upstream, do you need to wait for upstream to patch before fixing ubuntu?
[15:50] <utkarsh> I open PRs, et al upstream always (whenever possible) to make sure it's being tracked and will be subsequently fixed. Whilst it's ideal to be fixed upstream and then we cherry-pick from there but sometimes it so happens that we'd like to fix the bug immeditately, et al.
[15:51] <ddstreet> so is it ok to just open a PR upstream and MR in debian with your fix and then immediately patch ubuntu releases?
[15:52] <utkarsh> only if the fix is immediately needed or is a high-prio or something. Otherwise, it's always better for them to adapt the patch and then we cherry-pick that.
[15:53] <ddstreet> ok thanks, we're coming up on the end of the hour, so no more q from me
[15:53] <utkarsh> for example, I submitted a patch to Debian for them to accept and then did a sync here, when the upload wasn't high-prio.
[15:53] <ddstreet> rbasak i think we're ready to vote unless anyone else has q
[15:53] <sil2100> I might have one last question, more of a formality
[15:53] <rbasak> OK thanks! Any more questions from anyone?
[15:53] <rbasak> Oh sorry, go ahead sil2100
[15:54] <sil2100> How does the upload story change after Final Freeze for an Ubuntu release?
[15:55] <utkarsh> oh, of course. When the archive is frozen, fixes must be manually reviewed and accepted by the release team members.
[15:55] <utkarsh> well documented here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze).
[15:55] <sil2100> Can uploaders still upload things to the archive? If yes, what are appropriate uploads at this stage?
[15:57] <sil2100> Ok, since there's not much time left, seeing that you know about the documentation bits - I guess that might be enough for me for now!
[15:57] <utkarsh> the devs should upload to -proposed and the release team will cherry-pick if the circumstances allow. mostly RC bugs.
[15:57] <sil2100> No further questions o/
[15:57] <sil2100> Thanks o/
[15:57] <utkarsh> I'd have added more but time constraints..
[15:57] <utkarsh> thank you!
[15:58] <rbasak> #vote Grant Utkarsh Gupta Ubuntu Core Developer
[15:58] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Utkarsh Gupta Ubuntu Core Developer
[15:58] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[15:59] <sil2100> +1 Solid endorsements, lots of activity and Ubuntu presence
[15:59] <meetingology> +1 Solid endorsements, lots of activity and Ubuntu presence received from sil2100
[15:59] <teward> +1 solid endorsements, lots of activity, I fully believe they meet all the requirements for core-dev
[15:59] <meetingology> +1 solid endorsements, lots of activity, I fully believe they meet all the requirements for core-dev received from teward
[15:59] <teward> sorry handling 3 things at once :)
[16:02] <ddstreet> one sec, sorry
[16:04] <ddstreet> I'm confident in experience/knowledge with the devel release process, but I am concerned about the lack of experience with sru process; for better or worse, the ubuntu process does have lots of special cases and while you do have a good theoretical knowledge of it, without some hands-on sru experience, knowledge of the process alone isn't always enough
[16:04] <ddstreet> Certainly in the past, DMB members have rejected applications from people with more experience
[16:05] <ddstreet> +1 however my opinion isn't that a core dev needs process expertise, as I believe knowledge of the process is secondary to good technical ability, and all your work so far shows excellent technical work, so even if you don't have as much experience as has been required in the past, I'm confident in the actual changes you'll make and also confident you'll handle any unexpected process issues right and ask for help when needed
[16:05] <meetingology> +1 however my opinion isn't that a core dev needs process expertise, as I believe knowledge of the process is secondary to good technical ability, and all your work so far shows excellent technical work, so even if you don't have as much experience as has been required in the past, I'm confident in the actual changes you'll make and also confident you'll handle any unexpected process issues right and ask for help when needed receive
[16:07] <rbasak> +1 already endorsed; I would abstain, but voting to meet quorum as all other votes are unanimous
[16:07] <meetingology> +1 already endorsed; I would abstain, but voting to meet quorum as all other votes are unanimous received from rbasak
[16:07] <rbasak> #endvote
[16:07] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Utkarsh Gupta Ubuntu Core Developer
[16:07] <meetingology> Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[16:07] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:07] <rbasak> Congratulations utkarsh!
[16:07] <utkarsh> thank you, everyone! \o/
[16:08] <teward> i'll take the tasks
[16:08] <utkarsh> ddstreet: duly noted, thank you! :D
[16:08] <ddstreet> congratulations utkarsh!
[16:08] <teward> again :p
[16:08] <teward> rbasak: ^^
[16:09] <rbasak> Thanks teward!
[16:09] <rbasak> #action teward to apply Utkarsh's core dev permissions
[16:09] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to apply Utkarsh's core dev permissions
[16:09] <teward> might take a couple hours FourDollars, utkarsh, but i'll get to your perms at some point today or tomorrow.  Trying to put out a fire on FT job's exchange server
[16:09] <rbasak> #action teward to announce Utkarsh's successful application
[16:09] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to announce Utkarsh's successful application
[16:09] <teward> (i hate that i know more about exchange than half the windows guys... >.<)
[16:09] <utkarsh> teward: absolutely, no rush! \o/
[16:10] <FourDollars> teward: Thx.
[16:10] <rbasak> As we're over time, shall we skip the other standing agenda items for next time?
[16:10] <teward> yep go go go
[16:10] <teward> just for the record:
[16:10] <teward> rbasak: i did that last item you left on agenda
[16:10] <teward> had to dig in the May archives to find it but that was done for amurray's announce
[16:10] <rbasak> Thanks!
[16:10] <teward> *goes to beat his head on microsoft servers now for FT job*
[16:11] <rbasak> #topic Next Chair
[16:11] <rbasak> #info The next chair will be slashd
[16:11] <rbasak> #topic AOB
[16:11] <rbasak> Anything else that needs to be brought up today?
[16:12] <rbasak> I guess not.
[16:12] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[16:12] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:12:17 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-06-28-15.00.moin.txt
[16:12] <ddstreet> thanks o/