[03:04] <user|82> hello
[03:05] <user|82> how can installjunumtu on my lap top
 OKSA
 oksa
 Ubuntu minnimum ram support 4gb,but kubuntu minnimum ram support 512mb
 Why such a long difference
 Minnimum requirements
[14:33] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:34] <omegatron> ADHIVP: are you sure you look at the same version of ubuntu and kubuntu?
 Yea
 Yes
 In website of Ubuntu it's written 4gb ram
 Send screenshots of them both please. (re @ADHIVP: In website of Ubuntu it's written 4gb ram)
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/05e661d6/file_45610.jpg
[15:01] <Mekaneck> system requirement for Kubuntu should be the same as ubuntu's
[15:04] <alkisg> Booting ubuntu-20.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso, opening gnome-terminal and running free: 825MB in use. Will do the same for kubuntu...
[15:06] <alkisg> Booting kubuntu-20.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso, opening konsole and running free: 454MB in use
[15:07] <alkisg> So Kubuntu needs around 400MB less RAM, and can work without graphics acceleration. That's all.
[15:07] <alkisg> Now if you want to actually open a browser, add 1 GB to the RAM used above.
[15:18] <alkisg> Kubuntu fails to boot with 512MB, barely boots with 768. Ubuntu fails to boot with 768, barely boots with 1024MB. If you want to call minimum=barely boots, you can use these numbers.
[15:18] <alkisg> The 512MB number in the wiki is for the old, 18.04, EOLed version
[15:21] <alkisg> *for kubuntu 32bit
 Ok
 Can anyone give me detailed comparison between kubuntu,  lubuntu and xubuntu as per latest versions
 When I  checked on internet they are taking about old versions,  which are not relaible
[15:24] <alkisg> These should be very similar, the last time I tried it was lubuntu < kubuntu < xubuntu, all within 100MB RAM difference
[15:24] <alkisg> (and xubuntu < ubuntu-mate < ubuntu)
[15:29] <alkisg> So if you want to select between lubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu, don't check the minimum requirements, they're very similar. KDE is the most mature of these. E.g. LXDE doesn't even implement logout inhibitors, so if you have unsaved work when you logout, it's lost
[15:37] <Mekaneck> alkisg: doesn't Lubuntu use LXQt these days?
[15:38] <alkisg> Yeah, I haven't checked that one, when I last checked it was still LXDE
[15:38] <alkisg> So I can't speak for LXQT
[15:39] <alkisg> I think LXQT needs around 50 MB more RAM than LXDE, but I've only booted it a couple of times, I haven't used it in real life
 So kubuntu will be best right (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg> So if you want to select between lubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu, don't check the minimum requirements, they're very similar. KDE is the most mature of these. E.g. LXDE doesn't even implement logout inhibitors, so if you have unsaved work when you logout, it's lost)
[17:07] <alkisg> Depending on YOUR requirements, sure
[17:19] <armin> what's the point in a "logout inhibitor"? if i tell my computer i want to log out, chances are good i actually mean it.
[17:20] <armin> but well, i'm a die hard ctrl-alt-backspace afficionado anyway, old habits die hard. ;-)
[17:31] <alkisg> armin: for example, unsaved document in libreoffice
[18:09] <armin> alkisg: well it's simply a matter of preference. if you type "shutdown" or "reboot" in a terminal, what do you expect your computer to do? shutdown or reboot? or gracefully telling you it refuses to do what you tell it to because you're an oblivious person?
[18:12] <alkisg> armin: I expect, and I do get, "unattended upgrades" to inhibit my shutdown progress until they complete; otherwise they may leave the system completely unbootable
[18:12] <alkisg> Fortunately this is now true for all ubuntu and debian supported versions
[18:15] <armin> alkisg: that would in turn mean the package manager is performing non-atomic tasks. that's not immutable just by pessimistic locking.
[18:16] <armin> alkisg: e.g. that will then still break anyways if you get a power outage while an update is running.
[18:16] <alkisg> Indeed, that is the case. And inhibitors help there, but not with the outage.
[18:17] <alkisg> Programmers do what they can, they cannot perform miracles
[18:17] <alkisg> Atomic updates on ext4 is rather hard; it'll be easier on btrfs/zfs etc
[18:17] <armin> well nixos basically does it even on ext4.
[18:17] <armin> but that involve some other magic like PATCHELF.
[18:17] <armin> also not so cool. :)
[18:18] <armin> but yup, FreeBSD performs this mostly the right way with ZFS snapshots (iirc?)
[18:18] <armin> and i agree that for stuff like unattended upgrades and an APT based package management that would indeed make sense.
[18:19] <armin> probably not even possible without systemd, or?
[18:20] <armin> but yeah, interesting topic, afterall.
[18:23] <alkisg> snaps are just .squashfs files; they can be atomically activated even on ext4. I don't know nixos, maybe it's using something similar. While .debs write all over the place, /etc/, /usr/, /lib/,...  that cannot be done atomically without support from the file system
[18:26] <armin> yeah exactly, snaps are very similar to what nix is doing. every package in /nix/store has a unique hash as part of the name, e.g. hrpvwkjz04s9i4nmli843hyw9z4pwhww-bash-4.4-p23, which then is sym-linked into the system. assuming that all you do is updating a symlink, there is no race condition whatsoever, at some specific point in time the symlink will point to a new destination and that's it.
[18:35] <libertybeta> So, having some issues with fingerprint login. Its just hangs after password on login screen.
[18:37] <libertybeta> Put password and then it just hangs. Once logged in, things work, but I have to drop into terminal for that.
[18:37] <armin> alkisg: i actually still have some nixos installation on a secondary ssd in my workstation but didn't boot it for a couple of weeks because getting used to kubuntu was so trivially simple.
[18:45] <harshapk> heyo
[18:48] <libertybeta> Hey!
[19:05] <libertybeta> Do we know when the SDDM fingerprint bug will be fixed?
[19:07] <libertybeta> So, its stalled for the last year. Wonderful.