[00:00] <rfm> DavidPaiva[m], default is to get SLAAC addresses .  Set to "Automatic, DHCP only" in nm-connection-editor
[00:09] <Sheilong> I did manual partitioning when installing Lubuntu.  I choose one partition to be swap, however, after the install fdisk shows it as a linux partition instead.
[00:10] <Sheilong> How can I choose it to be a swap partition
[00:10] <quadrat> Sheilong you can just reformat it to swap
[00:11] <oerheks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq
[00:16] <Sheilong> quadrat: Ok. The summary of partitions change in the installation showed it was marked as swap.
[03:51] <timothyp> Hi! My Ubuntu 20.10 upgraded yesterday and since then I no longer have audio through HDMI. But when I turn up or turn down the volume I can hear the system sounds for that action. Every other sound (music video, etc...) does not work
[03:51] <timothyp> I have restarted alsa , even re-installed it, killled pulseaudio etc... nothing helps
[03:54] <Mekaneck> timothyp: afaik, 21.04 uses PipeWire by default now not pulsaudio
[03:58] <timothyp> pavucontrol only shows analog output in output devices, but shows the hdmi profile in configuration
[04:09] <timothyp> the GPU is NVIDIA by the way
[04:10] <lotuspsychje> you got secureboot enabled timothyp ?
[05:30] <morgans> OK I need to DL an ubuntu version that will fit on a cd, for a toshiba L600 - neighbor brought it to me to lok at for him. It is in Chinese, Win 7. Found an article about similar? Toshibas 2000.  What's the LTS version around then? Anyway, what Ubuntu would you all recommend?
[05:30] <morgans> Not 2000, 2010 article.
[05:31] <quadrat> morgans why not use the alternative installer from bionic, you could even upgrade after that to focal
[05:32] <morgans> I have no idea what you are saying Please educate me .... bionic? Alternative installer?
[05:32] <morgans> If I had any flash drives I would do that but I misplaced my 20.04 flash drive.
[05:32] <quadrat> bionic=18.04 focal=20.04 alternative installer= the old text based installer from debian
[05:33] <morgans> Uh "installer"?   I wanted to make a live-CD
[05:33] <quadrat> yeah in this regard it's an iso you can burn
[05:34] <morgans> I am not sure that I can handle an install in terminal
[05:35] <alkisg> How much RAM does that laptop have?
[05:36] <alkisg> And do you want to install ubuntu, or just use a live cd whenever you need it?
[05:36] <alkisg> Also, why not a live dvd?
[05:36] <morgans> because I do not have any blank dvd's
[05:37] <quadrat> morgans sorry, seems like they increased also that size to 900 megs
[05:38] <alkisg> OK what about the other 2 questions?
[05:38] <morgans> I looked at lucid and there dont seem to be any dowloads online.  I want an OLD version of Ubuntu. Once I install someting on the hard drive then I can test the computer and order a flash drive from somewhere
[05:38] <quadrat> morgans text based means in this regard not terminal, it's a console GUI https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Debian-Installer_10_Tasksel.svg
[05:38] <toddc> morgans: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
[05:39] <morgans> what is a console GUI, I thought console was what bash wrote to, ie the terminal.
[05:39] <quadrat> you can use the mini.iso, but beware, you can only use that iso if you don't need any blobs for drivers, or uefi
[05:39] <quadrat> morgans those interfaces are most of the time called TUI
[05:40] <quadrat> (text user interface)
[05:40] <morgans> what is a blob for driver, what is uefi?  (thata's something in the newer bios'es, right?
[05:40] <alkisg> morgans: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04.5/
[05:40] <morgans> I have a linspire disk but it didnt run.
[05:41] <morgans> you know I had an ubuntu 11 or 12 but I dont know what happened to them. I'll download the Precise (12.04)
[05:42] <quadrat> morgans just please never connect that to the internet
[05:42] <morgans> thanks alkisg, and there I see the word alternate install so I will have to look that up.
[05:43] <alkisg> morgans: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04.5/ubuntu-12.04.5-desktop-amd64.iso
[05:43] <alkisg> Not the alternate, it's text-based
[05:44] <morgans> once I get a livecd I will do lshw and know so much more. Thanks guys (of any gender identification)
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> morgans: the laptop doesnt have an usb port?
[05:45] <morgans> this is a chinese machine and os. In a world of today it was just left in the alley. My neighbor knows nothing.
[05:45] <morgans> yes, it has a usb port. it has ethernet too. why do you ask?
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> morgans: i was wondering why do you need it to be a live cd
[05:46] <alkisg> If you already have a linux PC nearby, you can netboot the laptop with the most recent ubuntu version
[05:46] <alkisg> You don't need a usb or cd that way
[05:47] <alkisg> But anyway do it however you want :)
[05:47] <morgans> to repeat, because I have cd blanks and no dvd blank and dont know where any flash drives are. (It took me ages of going through boxes in my bakers rack of electronics to find the box of cd's, bland, some computer and some music. -- glad to find those)
[05:48] <morgans> what, net boot? never heard of that. sock it to me bro.
[05:48] <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot
[05:49] <alkisg> That page mentions the theory; I wrote the script in the "automation" paragraph
[05:49] <morgans> you beat me to the search. It will be good to have a 12.04 at hand anyway.
[05:49] <alkisg> Where you run a command and it serves the .iso over the network
[05:50] <morgans> I see but the instructions are l33t to me. I need a PXE boot server which means DHCP and TFTP sermers... it goes on. ... Search the web for more info if you havent done this before.
[05:51] <alkisg> My script does all that automatically, then it removes them
[05:51] <alkisg> (i.e. dnsmasq and nfs-kernel-server)
[05:52] <arh>  Hello people. My region was on a country in Middle East and I changed the format to U.S. Now in top bar everything is correct but in lock screen it (the format) is still on my region in Middle East.
[05:52] <arh> Can you help please?
[05:57] <morgans> OK what is the built in routine to write a usb, and will it work for a ced  I forgot what it is called and if I had an APPLICATION TREE I cold just look for it but we are too fancy for that these days. (I tried some searches in "activities but drow a blank. did some web searches but the term liveCD triggers instructions to dl old stuff. -- why is this so hard?  (no pay for this, just my willingness to waste my time.)
[05:58] <morgans> And ubuntu software is like throwing a deck of cards onto the floor. Whoever designed it has a very weird mind.
[05:59] <quadrat> arh what is your default locale?
[06:01] <morgans> ah, it is called startup disk writer, I think.
[06:05] <morgans> I am too tired tonight. alkisg I appreciate your help. (silly me startup disk creater. I thought is was a name like ephemerus ??. I found it by searching for the usp creator because all the other searches told me to use Rufus (a windows program) prolly out of date for windows too.
[06:05]  * alkisg switched away from gnome to other desktop environments for the reasons that morgans said :)
[06:06] <alkisg> Rufus works for linux too
[06:06] <alkisg> There are many programs to create usb sticks. Also the plain `dd` command still works
[06:06] <morgans> oh I do do want to find another DE -- what do you suggest?   (I have an HP laptop too and mint and cinnamon failed on it. Some kind of display problem that looked like the horiz sync was off.
[06:07] <alkisg> I've been using MATE for 6 years, now I'm switching to KDE
[06:07] <morgans> I will learn how to use dd then. That sounds pretty basic. Good hint.
[06:08] <morgans> yes it was mate that failed, not mint. (Mind insists on a password for the system and I support an old friend and cannot update the system because I can reset the password by dropping into root at boot. (gnash and hair eris)
[06:08] <morgans> vant reset.. like I can with ubuntu. too much security for me.
[06:09] <morgans> kde is weird to me. I just want basic.
[06:09] <alkisg> Most graphics issues aren't really related  to the desktop environment, but to the kernel and xorg versions
[06:09] <morgans> but as I said, tired. later and thanks. think well of others.
[06:09] <alkisg> So e.g. if kernel 5.4 works, it'll work in any ubuntu or mint or debian version
[06:09] <alkisg> Cheers
[06:10] <morgans> will discuss the HP another day.
[06:15] <morgans> FYI startup disc creator cannot see the CD, but the system sees it. so  dumb.
[06:18] <alkisg> AFAIK you need brasero for CDs, or startup disk creator for USBs
[06:18] <alkisg> I.e. any CD burning program
[06:26] <morgans> oh glad I came back to see that. I got in over my head. -- the iso shows as a disk in the files program  it is like looking at an archive and seeing the files listed not the archive name. I was supposed to be able to r-click on it and pick burn. but no. (doing this tomorrow.  But was trying to get my mental ducks set up. (shakes head,)
[06:31] <arh> quadrat, I changed it to British and it got fixed.
[06:37] <arh> How can I install gnome-software without installing snapd?
[07:00] <lotuspsychje> arh: gnome-sofware and snap-store are 2 different packages
[07:05] <arh> lotuspsychje, when you install gnome-software it automatically installs snapd. I fixed it by installing gnome-software like this: apt install gnome-software --no-install-recommends
[07:07] <lotuspsychje> arh: are you sure it pulls snapd and not the snap plugin gnome-software-plugin-snap ?
[07:32] <Apachez> anyone else noticed lagging mouse in ubuntu 21.04 when high cpu spikes occurs, I cant recall I encounted this behaviour (during high cpu usage) in 20.10
[07:58] <Apachez> any of you who are successfully using tlp along with ubuntu 21.04?
[08:25] <ikonia> Apachez: tlp ?
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> think he means that laptop battery saving tool
[08:38] <Apachez> not only for laptops
[08:40] <lotuspsychje> !info laptop-mode-tools | Apachez try this?
[08:42] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: tlp seems to be superior... also wouldnt laptop-mode-tools interfere with that new power settings daemon in 21.04?
[09:09] <mayk> for powersave i use the gnome extention cpu power manager (it can auto switch between ac and batt profile) .  also used cpu freq (also gnome extention) where you can even shutdown cores of your cpu. The only remark on both is when you have it set to minimum power (scaled down cpu to the max) and squeezing all the life out of your battery is when you awake it from snoozy mode. then it takes like ages to login to your system again.  so before shutting the lid i
[09:09] <mayk> try to remember to give my thinkpad a little more cpu power to wake up.
[09:19] <arh> lotuspsychje, yes.
[11:52] <Harlin> Hello ..
[12:06] <Harlin> is there an ubuntu flavour that has a regular hard console as the desktop?
[12:12] <drdo> Harlin: server?
[12:12] <drdo> I use the server version on my desktop because I want to run my own window manager and setup
[12:13] <Harlin> Yeah I tried that one
[12:13] <Harlin> but it was lacking in features.
[12:13] <drdo> what features?
[12:14] <Harlin> well for some reason, I could never get things like the gimp or xchat to work.
[12:14] <drdo> You can install anything you want, it's the same distribution, the only difference is what comes installed out of the box
[12:14] <Harlin> and the mouse support seemed ... off.
[12:14] <drdo> That's strange, the packages are literally the same, there are no separate packages for server or desktop
[12:15] <Harlin> yeah tell me about it.
[12:15] <Harlin> I kept getting this error over and over ...
[12:15] <Harlin> Error: Can't open display: :0
[12:16] <Harlin> It sucks. But I just use imagemagick and something called irssi.
[12:16] <Harlin> fml
[12:17] <Harlin> but I can't go back to windows. It would be like having to go back to prison.
[12:17] <Harlin> Which I'm trying to avoid anyways.
[12:17] <drdo> There is no reason why it shouldn't work if the desktop version works
[12:17] <Harlin> desktop version?
[12:17] <Harlin> hmm I'm not using that one.
[12:18] <drdo> I understand that
[12:18] <Harlin> oh good.
[12:18] <drdo> But try booting the desktop version live cd
[12:18] <Harlin> ok
[12:18] <drdo> Don't install, just go into the live cd
[12:18] <drdo> and see if it works
[12:18] <Harlin> oh you mean just running off the live cd?
[12:18] <drdo> yes
[12:18] <Harlin> won't that give me a gui? I'm trying to avoid that.
[12:18] <drdo> Just to see if it works normally
[12:18] <drdo> If it does there's no reason why you couldn't get X to work well on the server version
[12:19] <Harlin> oh
[12:19] <Harlin> how do you install X
[12:19] <drdo> apt install xorg
[12:19] <Harlin> and that's all i need?
[12:19] <drdo> wait, are you literally trying to run gimp on the console?
[12:19] <Harlin> yeah isn't that what everyone's trying to do ultimately?
[12:19] <drdo> That doesn't work obviously, you need an X server
[12:20] <Harlin> oh
[12:20] <Harlin> I thought by X you mean like "x" as in a variable
[12:20] <drdo> no
[12:20] <Harlin> ok
[12:20] <drdo> and you will need a window manager
[12:20] <drdo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_window_manager
[12:21] <Harlin> I don't want to use windows if it can be helped.
[12:21] <Harlin> been there, done that.
[12:21] <drdo> ??
[12:21] <Harlin> that is not for me.
[12:21] <drdo> What windows are you talking about?
[12:22] <Harlin> you've never heard of Windows?
[12:22] <ThinkT510> so you are looking for terminal equivalents so that you don't need to run xorg or wayland display server?
[12:22] <drdo> Harlin: Are you talking about microsoft windows?
[12:22] <Harlin> I would assume yes drdo
[12:22] <drdo> Harlin: I was never talking about that
[12:22] <Harlin> oh good.
[12:22] <Harlin> I am not interested in using that.
[12:22] <drdo> Harlin: You need to read up on X and X window managers
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:23] <Harlin> Well I wouldn't say "need"
[12:23] <Harlin> maybe I "could"
[12:23] <drdo> Why did you even ask for help then?
[12:23] <Harlin> That sounds heavy.
[12:23] <ogra> the applications yu want to run *need* it
[12:23] <Harlin> ogra, oh ? Gimp needs Windows?
[12:23] <drdo> Are we being trolled?
[12:23] <drdo> I think we are
[12:23] <Harlin> Oh my, I am way off.
[12:24] <ogra> to run a graphical application you need a graphical environment the application can run on
[12:24] <Harlin> ok
[12:24] <Harlin> So then the Linux windows is x windows?
[12:24] <Harlin> maybe that's where I got confused.
[12:24] <ogra> Xorg or wayland provinde the lowest bit of this graphical environment ...
[12:24] <ogra> but to move the app windows around, to close the apps etc you need also a so called "window manager"
[12:24] <ledeni[m]> Harlin: desktop environment check google
[12:25] <Harlin> so what is the difference between xorg and wayland?
[12:25] <Harlin> yeesh this is a lot.
[12:25] <ogra> they are different implementations of the lowest layer of a graphical environment
[12:25] <Harlin> glad i asked
[12:25] <drdo> Don't worry about the difference, just go read about X
[12:25] <Harlin> ok
[12:25] <drdo> You don't even understand that, there's no need to get more confusion
[12:25] <Harlin> is it actually called X?
[12:26] <drdo> yes
[12:26] <drdo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System
[12:26] <Harlin> that's really a ubiquitous name when you think about it.
[12:26] <ogra> X is the short name of Xorg
[12:26] <Harlin> ok
[12:26] <Harlin> x.org ?
[12:26] <drdo> Xorg is an implemention of X
[12:26] <Harlin> oh Xorg.
[12:26] <drdo> There are others, xorg is just the most common
[12:26] <Harlin> I see
[12:26] <ogra> it was originally called X11 ... then got renamed to Xorg ...
[12:26] <Harlin> ok
[12:27] <Harlin> thanks guys. I'll read some more. Sorry for the confusion.
[12:27] <ogra> X is just an overarching name of the whole thing
[13:09] <bikertales> Hi
[13:10] <lotuspsychje> welcome bikertales
[13:11] <bikertales> any facing the issue of welcome screen appearing after every restart after upgrade to 20.04.02. I need to create a new user every restart its painful not able to find any help on ask ubuntu
[13:11] <bikertales> how to solve this
[13:14] <lotuspsychje> bikertales: did you complete the welcome screen process?
[13:14] <bikertales> yes
[13:14] <lotuspsychje> so it returns on the same user after you completed it?
[13:16] <bikertales> yes i can login with the user but after a restart a new user needs to be created old one is present but does not show the user behaves as fresh welcome or first user creation
[13:16] <lotuspsychje> bikertales: the welcome screen pops up on every new user you create by default
[13:16] <leftyfb> bikertales: what sort of machine is this? Why is the OEM install on it in the first place?
[13:17] <bikertales> the welcome pops up every instance irrespective or user created or not
[13:18] <bikertales> its a dell latitude worked well 2 years every with the 18 to 20 upgrade
[13:24] <lotuspsychje> bikertales: i dont find related bugs right away on your issue
[13:28] <uos> hello
[13:28] <bikertales> i tried search if any one had this issue, few have but no answers to this
[13:28] <bikertales> looks like a reinstall is the only way
[13:29] <ledeni> bikertales:  echo "yes" >> /home/username/.config/gnome-initial-setup-done
[13:40] <bikertales> its a yes for all users even for users before the upgrade to 20.04.02
[13:43] <ledeni[m]> bikertales: what i mean pass ' echo "yes" >> /home/username/.config/gnome-initial-setup-done' for user you will try to login that will disable g-i-s
[13:46] <ledeni[m]> bikertales: *username should be your user name
[13:48] <z316> hello
[13:48] <z316> what is this
[13:50] <Preppie> This is IRC
[13:50] <Preppie> If you need help, this is where you seek it
[13:52] <bikertales> its already passes as yes
[13:53] <ledeni[m]> bikertales: hmm
[13:53] <bikertales> cat /home/user1/.config/gnome-initial-setup-done gives a yes
[13:53] <VIA> question, im trying to get ubuntu 20.04 xfce to have different DPI for multiple displays ? couldnt find anything yet
[13:59] <bittin> hey
[14:54] <justin> whutnow
[15:08] <archivist> why can i not send to channel in #bash?
[15:09] <mybalzitch> unregistered nick?
[15:09] <archivist> that would be it **sigh**
[15:10] <archivist> trying to break through the brick wall of snobbish attitude from linux users to become a proficient one myself is not fun
[15:10] <archivist> i dont mean you
[15:10] <mybalzitch> idk, that attitude is pretty universal
[15:10] <archivist> well, it's not okay
[15:11] <sixwheeledbeast> there are snobs everywhere. your opinion is just perspective
[15:11] <archivist> thanks for demonstrating
[15:12] <archivist> i need help. i'm a lifelong geek but new to linux. and no i don't feel the least bit bad about that.
[15:13] <archivist> thats the way it went down. i was introduced to windows first. by the time i knew what linux was, i didn't want to have to be a newbie again. i din't want to go through, exactly what i'm going throug now.
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> !discuss
[15:13] <archivist> hey yeah thanks, don't let me pre-empt the bullshit first
[15:14] <archivist> i'm desperately trying to write what should be, for someone familiar with these languages, utterly trivial: a dolphin service menu that will allow me to make hard links via context menu
[15:14] <lotuspsychje> archivist: please only ubuntu support issues in this channel
[15:15] <archivist> i'm trying to do that from the output of $(xsel-b) right now, but i can't figure out how to manipulate the return value well enough in bash (newline-delimited file URLs)
[15:15] <archivist> thanks
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> archivist: there is also a #linux channel if you like
[15:15] <archivist> got snobbed in #bash on debian and killed when i didn't like getting snobbeed
[15:15] <coconut> archivist, sssshhhhh now
[15:15] <archivist> no, fuck you. ban me, little kid it's what you get off on
[15:15] <coconut> !op
[15:16] <archivist> waaaa! mean pixels!
[15:16] <archivist> why do you treat new users like this?
[15:16] <archivist> how am i supposed to ever get anywhere and not hate this?
[15:17] <coke> learning how to get support for actual problems and where to get is is part of the process
[15:17] <coke> welcome :)
[15:17] <archivist> all my time for my projects has been wasted for weeks because i can't do simple things like make hard links
[15:18] <archivist> you know how many rounds of this ive done already?
[15:19] <archivist> i taught yself programming when i was 14 from a book of program listings. no information about the language. i reverse-engineered the rules of the language for myself from trial and error. you guys should love me.
[15:19] <archivist> instead, i get attitude instead of help
[15:20] <archivist> all the rtfm'ing ive been doing, it's even admitted that bash's syntax is hellacious
[15:21] <lotuspsychje> archivist: you are disturbing the channel for other users that need actual help, please respect that
[15:21] <ogra> archivist, we do love you indeed ... but please understand that this channel is for support around ubuntu specific issues, do you have any problem directly related to ubuntu (not "programming on linux" etc)
[15:21] <archivist> like whom?
[15:22] <archivist> can you tell me where i can go to GET help with this??
[15:22] <ogra> i sadly can not .. sorry ... but this is the wrong place ...
[15:22] <archivist> everyhwre is the wrong place, apparently
[15:22] <archivist> eat a bag of dicks and die
[15:23] <sixwheeledbeast> archivist: I think you need to look within for the elitist snob. You are clearly pissing people off when you don't get the answer you want
[15:23]  * ogra decides to not follow this advice ... 
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> :p
[15:39] <ice9> in x11 session, gnome settings show 120Hz for the display but in wayland it show only 60; so is the 120Hz fake?
[15:45] <michagogo_> As root on a server, is there a way I can create (externally) an SMB network share, mount it somewhere, and only allow specific users/groups on my server to access it?
[15:46] <quadrat> ice9 afaik, wayland doesn't support 120hz for now
[15:46] <quadrat> michagogo_ what do you mean by that? creating a samba server?
[15:47] <michagogo_> No, mounting an existing share so users on my server can access it
[15:48] <michagogo> something along the lines of `mount -t cifs`
[15:50] <donofrio> michagogo, like dfs cifs share?
[15:51] <michagogo> Not sure if it’s using dfs or not, may just be on a specific server
[15:54] <michagogo> The use case is to have scripts/tools that people can run, that export their results to files that I want apps elsewhere to consume, but I need it secure/permissioned
[15:55] <michagogo> Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be (if at all possible) to expose an SMB service on the server, while using domain accounts for authentication and permissions
[15:56] <michagogo> I do have the server `realm join`ed in order to allow users to authenticate to the site it hosts with Kerberos, but unfortunately I don’t have my users logging in with domain user accounts
[16:44] <DJones>   ac
[17:07] <Apachez> so wassup with gnome-shell being a buggy client in ubuntu 21.04?   https://pastebin.com/A89LR0AJ
[17:16] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: what do you notice in reality?
[17:33] <leftyfb> Apachez: those are just warning and can be ignored. It literally says it's working around the issue
[18:16] <Apachez> leftyfb: so why is there an issue to begin with that floods the log?
[18:16] <Apachez> also noticed that with 21.04 the mouse pointer stutters when there is high cpu usage
[18:16] <Apachez> didnt occured in 20.10 on the same box using xorg
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: lets see your full dmesg plz or journal logs
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: assuming you are on wayland?
[18:19] <morgans> my struggles to make a livecd or install over the network are over. I found my 20.04 flash drive and I am installing father ubu 20LTS on this found-inna-alley Chinese Toshiba laptop my neighbor brought to me because he didnt know anything -- and pretty mich never learns. (He doesnt do well with not being told as a challenge. He doesnt do it then loses tract of the device in his "storage" - which is his entire
[18:19] <morgans> apartment and storage unit. oh and the dead-end of his parking space too. Absentee landlord.
[18:19] <morgans> fwiw
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> morgans: i think alkisg helped you with that issue right?
[18:22] <morgans> right alkisg  (not tired now, i see it is alk as in alkaline. will remember. thank him (and you too) I just lrespect all you folks who make ubuntu what it is. and sometimes I can help on simple stuff.
[18:23] <lotuspsychje> tnx for the feedback morgans
[18:31] <ice9> is LXD more close to a VM than a docker container?
[18:32] <quadrat> no lxd and docker container are more akin, as both use namespaces
[18:32] <quadrat> vm is more isolated
[18:34] <sarnold> quadrat: lxd has been able to run VMs for a while now
[18:35] <sarnold> and the usual use of lxd is more like "whole system containers", docker is more like "put this application in a container"
[18:38] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: yup on wayland, upgraded from 20.10 to 21.04 yesterday
[18:38] <leftyfb> sarnold: lxd as a technology is based on namespaces. The lxd/lxc client and system can also manage VM's as an added feature
[18:43] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: dmesg output https://pastebin.com/xgPWv5z7
[18:45] <Apachez> typical case where mouse pointer stutters is when loading multiple tabs at once in google chrome
[18:45] <Apachez> I didnt notice this behaviour in 20.10
[18:46] <Apachez> journalctl have nothing out of the ordinary except for these lines every now and then:
[18:46] <Apachez> jul 13 20:36:31 nuc gnome-shell[2485]: Window manager warning: last_user_time (38385541) is greater than comparison timestamp (38385522).  This most likely represents a buggy client sending inaccurate timestamps in messages such as _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW.  Trying to work around...
[18:46] <Apachez> jul 13 20:36:31 nuc gnome-shell[2485]: Window manager warning: 0xa00001 appears to be one of the offending windows with a timestamp of 38385541.  Working around...
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: dmesg looks pretty sane to me on first sight, what kind of graphics are you on?
[18:46] <Apachez> and the usual libinput warnings that also existed back in 20.10
[18:46] <Apachez> builtin intel gpu
[18:46] <Apachez> haswell
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: you got those lags on FF too on several tabs?
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: leftyfb already explained you the gnome-shell part
[18:48] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: I dont have FF installed
[18:48] <Apachez> Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4250U CPU
[18:48] <Apachez>     Driver:  Intel Open Source Technology Center Mesa DRI Intel(R) HD Graphics 5000 (HSW GT3)
[18:48] <Apachez>     Driver Version:  3.0 Mesa 21.0.3
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: did you install google chrome or used chromium snap?
[18:48] <leftyfb> !paste | Apachez
[18:48] <Apachez> its google chrome since ages so no snap there
[18:49] <leftyfb> Apachez: Firefox is installed on ubuntu by default. Did you remove it?
[18:49] <Apachez> Version 91.0.4472.114 (Official Build) (64-bit)
[18:49] <Apachez> leftyfb: yup
[18:49] <Apachez> but I have experienced the stuttering with other apps too
[18:50] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: well chrome isnt really supported officialy, you might wanna compare with FF & chromium
[18:50] <Apachez> seems to be when there is a high cpu usage wayland (or whatever) just drops the prio of the mouse movements (which previous versions didnt)
[18:50] <Apachez> it feels like in the linux desktop beginning where mouse movements werent as priotizied
[18:50] <Apachez> its like a flashback 20-25 years back in time
[18:50] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: i noticed gnome shell lags on older boxes on 21.04 when reaching to desktop after login (wayland)
[18:50] <Apachez> but only occurs when high cpu usage... normally like right now when I type there are no issues
[18:51] <Apachez> so Im thinking is there some /dev, /sys/ or /proc I could monitor of whats hapenning?
[18:51] <Apachez> is there an interrupt thats not priotizied as it should?
[18:52] <Apachez> kernel was 20.10 was current 5.8 while for 21.04 its current 5.11
[18:52] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: if you can reproduce this on several supported apps, i would consider a new bug
[18:52] <Apachez> Linux nuc 5.11.0-24-generic #25-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 29 14:16:54 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:52] <Grobader> Hi
[18:53] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: is that an intel NUC you are on?
[18:53] <Apachez> yup
[18:53] <Grobader> I'm not sure where to ask this question but ... I was wondering how locales and keyboard layouts work ...
[18:53] <Apachez> D54250
[18:53] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: did you firmware upgrade it to latest?
[18:53] <Apachez> yup
[18:53] <Apachez> same firmware as with 20.10
[18:53] <Apachez> you see the firmware in the dmesg output
[18:53] <Apachez> [    0.000000] DMI:  /D54250WYK, BIOS WYLPT10H.86A.0054.2019.0902.1752 09/02/2019         thats the latest available
[18:54] <Grobader> Do keyboard layouts just reassign a different UTF code to the same keyboard signal or what?
[18:54] <Apachez> Grobader: you mean like a keymap?
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: ok good, lets assume its a wayland/mutter bug then
[18:54] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: is there a handy way to check counters or enable debug to capture wtf is going on?
[18:54] <Grobader> I'm not sure, I'm kinda asking in general
[18:55] <Grobader> keymap is not the same as keyboard layout?
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: maybe compare this with a live session, see if you can reproduce, if you do, i would reccomend a new bug, devs might find usefull
[18:55] <Apachez> Grobader: the keyboard have a value that each key sends out, this is then mapped to characters and corresponding utf8 values or whatever character enconding you use (there is even utf16 among others)
[18:57] <Grobader> @Apachez: So i had the idea to developers, but I'm not sure if my idea even make sense, ... if you have a program with key bindings, and you have a selection of multiple local keymaps/layouts for different languages/countries, and you change something in your own, and you'd want all  the other layouts to also update the changes ...
[18:58] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: also to clearify the mouse doesnt lag like delay between moving the mouse and the cursor moves on screen but rather when the high cpu occurs the cursor chops like micro-freezes on screen
[18:59] <Apachez> like moving it from one side of the screen to the other isnt a smooth motion
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: well you might measure some things with; journalctl -f , htop see what happens at times you playing around
[18:59] <Apachez> and again normally there is a smooth motion... but when high cpu occurs (like loading 30 tabs at once) I noticed the choppiness after upgrading to 21.04, didnt exist the other day when the same box was on 20.10
[18:59] <Grobader> @Apachez: ... but if you write the same RSHIFT+Z into all the other layouts (picture the layouts as independent different profiles of the whole keyboard controls), the QUERTY keymaps would be misconfigured, unless could a converter be used ... would that make sense and be easy to develop?
[19:00] <Apachez> Grobader: I guess thats up to the application
[19:00] <lotuspsychje> Apachez: start browser from terminal, trace anything you can
[19:00] <Apachez> most apps reads the keys through the os keymap sort of speak
[19:00] <Apachez> what you seem to be wanting is the app reading the keyboard directly and using a local keymap
[19:01] <Apachez> I think this might be possible by adding env settings when starting your app
[19:01] <Apachez> similar to    LC_ALL=xxx /opt/appname    in the cli when starting something
[19:02] <Grobader> Yeah, I'm not sure if something like this is more simple to solve or if a solution already exists that could be used, so my own idea was a converter built-in application, so that it would know how to use the same location and use the correct key for that keymap
[19:02] <Apachez> I think what you are asking for already exists like with prefix the app name when starting
[19:02] <Grobader> Exists?
[19:02] <Apachez> but you perhaps are more asking for a gui overlay to do the same
[19:04] <Apachez> Grobader: for example starting your app in cli with just       /opt/appname        vs using something like       LC_ALL=C /opt/appname
[19:06] <Grobader> ... earlier. So what I came up is: When you're in the app's keybind settings to configure hotkeys, and you're editing the de_DE keymap for example, you change one of the hotkeys to "Z" and you press on the "Z" on your de_DE keyboard which is to the left of "X", ... I would want all of the other keymap profiles in that app also updated automaticaly
[19:06] <Grobader> by a built in system. But It shouldn't apply this "Z" to  the en_US keymap profile, it should translate to what makes sense in that case, and that would be "Y"
[19:06] <Apachez> Grobader: here is an example of similar case  https://askubuntu.com/questions/655628/assign-default-keyboard-language-per-application
[19:07] <Apachez> is that what you are looking for?
[19:09] <Grobader> No because this is about a general idea, it does not exist in any app that I know, it is not about selecting languages for  the GUI or anything, it's just for how the hotkeys register the keys, I do not have an en_US keyboard and the program I'm talkign about only supports en_US keymap, we're trying to support more locales.
[19:10] <Grobader> I'm just not familiar enough to gauge whether the extra idea of supporting many locales as separate profiles is is worth it.
[19:12] <Grobader> I might have to figure this out tho.
[19:17] <morgans> SWUASHFS error unable to read page and date. 20.04 installation fails. Now I will try to run from usb drive.   ok, it works, oh I dont know HOW DO I USE TERMINAL TO COPY the file in which I saved lshw into "the buffer" to put it into an email.  (I would rather do it that way rather than as an attachment.)
[19:21] <morgans> OK I sent it as an attachment so we can continue this convo when I dont have the toshiba L600 Chinese laptop at hand.
[19:21] <morgans> Then the question will be, WHAT DISTRO will work on this computer?
[19:44] <Apachez> lotuspsychje: I managed to get some logs when the events of mouse stuttering occurs:
[19:44] <Apachez> jul 13 21:43:03 nuc gnome-shell[2485]: libinput error: client bug: timer event6 debounce short: scheduled expiry is in the past (-5ms), your system is too slow
[19:44] <Apachez> jul 13 21:43:03 nuc gnome-shell[2515]: Key repeat discarded, Wayland compositor doesn't seem to be processing events fast enough!
[19:45] <Apachez> jul 13 21:43:17 nuc gnome-shell[2485]: libinput error: client bug: timer event6 debounce: scheduled expiry is in the past (-8ms), your system is too slow
[19:45] <Apachez> jul 13 21:43:17 nuc gnome-shell[2485]: libinput error: client bug: timer event6 debounce short: scheduled expiry is in the past (-28ms), your system is too slow
[20:44] <Apachez> starting gedit will also get a stuttering mouse cursor in 21.04 while gedit loads
[20:51] <GSMarquis> Do I need solar to get logitech unifying rec support?
[20:58] <leftyfb> GSMarquis: huh?
[21:01] <leftyfb> GSMarquis: I think your question is unrelated to ubuntu. Maybe try #hardware
[21:02] <GSMarquis> I want to set a custom button to scroll lock when using a trackball
[21:02] <GSMarquis> I thought I saw in the past a gui based on something called solar for ubuntu
[21:03] <shibboleth> TJ-, ping
[21:06] <Apachez> so after using xorg instead of wayland to login in 21.04 the mouse stuttering during high cpu load is gone
[21:06] <Apachez> so something is truly broken with wayland in ubuntu
[21:08] <quadrat> Apachez seems like it really depends on what hardware you are running, for me, I have more issues on X11 than wayland
[21:10] <Apachez> Im available if someone have suggestions on how to debug this issue
[21:10] <Apachez> looking through google Im not alone as it seems
[21:10] <leftyfb> Apachez: stick with xorg
[21:10] <leftyfb> Apachez: and file or add to existing bugs
[21:11] <Apachez> isnt xorg supposed to be gone in 22.04 LTS ?
[21:11] <quadrat> Apachez afaik gnome is right now at threading up gnome-shell, so this doesn't happen anymore, but no idea if there is an ETA
[21:11] <sixwheeledbeast> even if wayland is default you can run x in wayland
[21:12] <leftyfb> Apachez: I haven't seen that posted anywhere
[21:30] <vai> hello
[21:30] <Apachez> elo
[22:24] <BinarySavior> hello, when i type java --version i'm getting openjdk 14.0.2 but i installed openjdk-16
[22:24] <BinarySavior> how can i get java to use the 16 when i type java
[22:24] <jailbreak> BinarySavior: remove 14. Fully....
[22:25] <oerheks> sudo update-alternatives --config java
[22:25] <sixwheeledbeast> installing 16 should be enough
[22:25] <sixwheeledbeast> yep if not try above
[22:25] <oerheks> they can be installed side by side
[22:25] <BinarySavior> i installed them side by side but it's still running 14 when i type java
[22:26] <oerheks> maybe a logout/login is needed ?
[22:27] <oerheks> no, it should work
[22:41] <BinarySavior> logging out and back in didn't work, i did update-alternatives --config java and set the default to 16 now it works
[22:41] <jailbreak> Nice.
[23:05] <quadrat> how can I find out, when ubuntu gets a newer version of a package, in comparison to just security updates? was dumbfounded when I saw that docker.io got updated from 19.x to 20.x
[23:46] <athos> quadrat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docker.io/+bug/1919322
[23:53] <quadrat> athos so i can assume that at some point we get the impish stack? or is it every other release?
[23:54] <oerheks> when support stops, one should expect a newer version.
[23:55] <quadrat> oerheks thanks. good to know
[23:55] <oerheks> Docker EE 19.03	July 21, 2019	July 21, 2021
[23:55] <oerheks> https://endoflife.software/applications/virtualization/docker-daemon
[23:56] <oerheks> also, general, check the proposed releases, to get the idea. normally, with LTS, the packages stay stable, no newer functions, just security patches backported
[23:56] <oerheks> *if* you find a reason to request a newer version, file an SRU
[23:56] <oerheks> !sru
[23:58] <quadrat> oerheks yeah i always had the assumption that almost everything than browsers stay at the version. so was kinda suprised. but as i now know about it, i will look out for it (the last ubuntu release i was using on a rather regular basis was something like 8.04
[23:59] <oerheks> another option is the HWE update ontop of an LTS
[23:59] <oerheks> !hwe