[00:45] <goddard> if i restart gnome shell does that close all my apps?
[00:55] <sarnold> goddard: yeah, gnome shell and the compositor are the 'main' processes in the session
[00:55] <goddard> ahh bummer
[01:40] <CodeMouse92> goddard: Uhm...there is a "restart" option for gnome shell. Kinda a soft restart, doesn't close anything
[01:40] <CodeMouse92> Doesn't work on Wayland, mind you
[01:40] <CodeMouse92> But on default GNOME, you can press Alt-F2, type 'r' in the box, and hit enter
[01:41] <CodeMouse92> Your UI will lock up for a moment while it works, but that's about as reliable as logging out and logging in as far as reloading GNOME Shell goes
[01:42] <mattf> hi
[01:48] <GSMarquis> Has anyone upgraded to gnome 40? Was it a smooth process?
[01:59] <quadrat> GSMarquis as gnome40 is nowhere in the repos, I guess it's the wrong channel ;)
[02:58] <GSMarquis> I heard a podcast that someone installed gnome 40 over stock Ubuntu and it was awsome. Perhaps built from code? I dont know.
[03:27] <[itchyjunk]> Hi I am on 18.04. I just `sudo apt install steam`. when i use the gui to click on the steam icon it doesn't launch. when i open a terminal and type `steam` it says command not found.
[03:27] <[itchyjunk]> What can I do?
[03:28] <sarnold> [itchyjunk]: dpkg -L steam   should show you the files of the package, you can probably find the executable name that way
[03:30] <[itchyjunk]> Hm, that showed a lot of things but i can't tell which is the file i want to run. :s
[03:31] <sarnold> heh dang, try dpkg -L steam | grep bin -- see if that's short but hopefully not empty :)
[03:31] <yates> is ubuntu package manager (apt, apt-get, apt-find, etc.) based on dpkg packages or .deb packages?
[03:31] <sarnold> yates: same thing
[03:31] <sarnold> yates: you use dpkg to install .deb packages; apt coordinates depdendencies etc
[03:32] <yates> sarnold: so are there both "source" .deb packages and "binary" .deb packages?
[03:32] <[itchyjunk]> Nothing for bin
[03:32] <sarnold> yates: there's nothing like a srpm, no; but the .dsc files have names and hashes of upstream tarballs and debian patch tarballs, that together let you build the package
[03:32] <yates> [itchyjunk]: so you mean all .deb packages are source code and the app is built on the user's machine?
[03:33] <sarnold> yates: no, the .deb files are binary
[03:33] <[itchyjunk]> Does this mean the installation broke? :<
[03:33] <sarnold> yates: on ubuntu those are built on the launchpad build builders; on debian they are built on their buildd builders (basically same thing)
[03:33] <sarnold> [itchyjunk]: no, it just means I'm unfamiliar with it
[03:33] <[itchyjunk]> when i try `sudo apt install steam` it says steam:i386 is already the newest version
[03:33] <[itchyjunk]> ah
[03:34] <yates> sarnold: do .deb packages are largely (or always) binary packages, targeted for a specific architecture?
[03:34] <yates> s/do/so/
[03:34] <sarnold> yates: many are architecture specific, yes; but there's also some that work on all architectures
[03:35] <yates> yeah, like shell scripts? python? etc.?
[03:35] <sarnold> perl, ruby, documentation, manpages, etc
[03:35] <sarnold> exactly
[03:35] <yates> right.
[03:35] <sarnold> yates: here we go, check this out: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/schroot/
[03:36] <yates> sarnold: and you are saying that .dpkg and .deb packages are the exact same format?
[03:36] <yates> ok, looking.
[03:36] <sarnold> yates: the schroot_*dsc files there describe which tarballs to use when building the package; the _amd64.deb and _i386.deb files are the architectireu specific binaries, and the _all.deb files are architecture-independent packages
[03:37] <sarnold> yates: there's no '.dpkg' format; there's a tool, dpkg, that does things about .deb files
[03:37] <[itchyjunk]> It's fixed maybe! I found solution on askubuntu forum if anyone else was curious
[03:37] <yates> ah, ok.
[03:37] <sarnold> [itchyjunk]: woot, what was it? :)
[03:38] <[itchyjunk]> magic command i had to run was `mkdir "/home/$USER/.steam/ubuntu12_32/steam-runtime"`
[03:38] <sarnold> wild :)
[03:38] <sarnold> thanksa
[03:39] <sarnold> I'm headed out for the night :) you guys have fun
[03:39] <yates> sarnold: do .deb files include dependencies within themselves, kinda like rpm's spec files?
[03:39] <yates> s/include/specify/
[03:40] <sarnold> yates: I think they do, since dpkg -i ./file.deb will complain.. but it's more common for apt to know them from the lists on the repositories
[03:40] <yates> and that's largely what apt does? i.e., lookup the dependencies and mark them for installation (checking if they break other packages, etc., etc.) ?
[03:42] <yates> i'm building a yocto distribution and am trying to decide which package manager to use. the current contenders are .deb, .rpm, and .smart
[03:43] <yates> sarnold: what's the difference between snaps and .debs?
[03:56] <mattf> Any idea when neovim 0.5 comes to ubuntu?
[03:57] <mattf> how long it usually takes
[03:59] <guiverc> mattf, it's a community (universe) package; so after someone from the community packages it & uploads it for others.  Packagers often wait for a request to be made, some do it when they're able to
[04:00] <guiverc> the package usually comes from upstream-debian; so after debian gets it (debian is in freeze currently)
[04:06] <mattf> seems like will take ages then
[04:08] <guiverc> mattf, packages can get from debian to ubuntu in days-weeks; but it depends when in the cycle (nothing moves when either is freeze; aslo will vary on what release you're using...)
[05:22] <alkisg> mattchis: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=neovim => it's not in debian yet
[05:22] <alkisg> Whoops sorry, I meant mattf, my matrix client got confused :D
[05:23] <alkisg> (he left earlier)
[07:22] <quadrat> hey, is there a way that the update-manager honors pinnings? or is it a bug in 20.04? i get constant update notifications from a repo I pinned to 100
[08:06] <Bardon> Hello, I have a machine running Ubuntu. I'd like to install Ubuntu on another hard drive. Is it possible to install Ubuntu on the other hard drive, from my current install?
[08:06] <Bardon> Without booting on a liveusb
[08:09] <Bardon> That's because I can't figure out why I can't boot on my USB stick. It is sometimes recognized, sometimes not. Same for my keyboard. It isn't recognized all the time.. Once the OS boots, the usb ports work fine though
[08:09] <Bardon> (I'm using coreboot so that might be related, I don't know, anyways)
[08:15] <alkisg> Bardon: yes it's possible, with either dd, or with parted/mount/cp
[08:15] <alkisg> If the second disk is bigger, dd is much easier to use
[08:15] <Bardon> alksig: I don't want to copy my current install, right? I want a fresh one
[08:15] <Bardon> on a new drive
[08:15] <alkisg> Ah
[08:15] <alkisg> Then you'd need e.g. virtualbox
[08:16] <alkisg> You can tell virtualbox to boot from an .iso and install to a physical disk
[08:16] <alkisg> Or, you can install inside virtualbox, and then clone the result, whatever's easier for you
[08:16] <napalm> hello! I have a suspending\hibernating problem on Ubuntu 20.04, it doesn't work on lid close or calling suspend from power-off options, but somehow it worked using pm-suspend shell command (though I find it strange that fans continue to work, but quiter than usual)
[08:16] <Bardon> Is it not possible to apt install ubiquity then launch it?
[08:17] <alkisg> Bardon: it would be nice, but I think it depends on the live cd environment, I doubt it would work from an existing installation and then use some .iso as the source
[08:17] <alkisg> At best, it would clone your existing installation in the target, and then it would remove the livecd apps, which you don't have
[08:17] <alkisg> As ubiquity actually clones, it doesn't fetch/install
[08:18] <alkisg> You can of course use deboostrap and then apt install ubuntu-desktop, but that's a lot harder
[08:18] <alkisg> Instead of virtualbox, you could also use kvm, like kvm -m 2048 -hda /dev/sdb -cdrom your.iso etc, the exact params will need a bit of googling
[08:19] <Bardon> Ok, I'll look up virtulbox and kvm
[08:19] <Bardon> I don't know kvm
[08:20] <alkisg> Note that you'll need to select the appropriate firmware, i.e. bios or uefi
[08:20] <Bardon> Will Virtualbox be able to see my actual hard drives?
[08:20] <alkisg> Run this now: ls /sys/firmware/efi
[08:20] <alkisg> If it shows some files there, you're booted in UEFI mode
[08:20] <alkisg> So you'd need to tell vbox/kvm to also boot in uefi mode
[08:20] <alkisg> If not, it's bios mode, the default, so easier
[08:21] <Bardon> Ok!
[08:22] <napalm_> Could anyone try to help me? Pretty please? :)
[08:32] <napalm_> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9WWKH3v2FF/
[08:35] <napalm_> I have pasted the output of debug of pm-suspend, but it seems that ubuntu uses systemctl suspend command instead and I have no idea how to debug it
[09:53] <quadrat> hey, is there a way that the update-manager honors pinnings? or is it a bug in 20.04? i get constant update notifications from a repo I pinned to 100
[10:35] <tomreyn> quadrat: hmm, that'd be a grave bug if it would also want to install those, i'd say. does it?
[10:42] <Thedarkb1> Hi, I'm using Ubuntu server on a vultr VPS and one of the network ports is showing as "down" in ip a.
[10:42] <quadrat> tomreyn: so to explain more, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dS8cbTD9nz/ but https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dS8cbTD9nz/ this is what update-manager tells me
[10:43] <quadrat> tomreyn argh, http://0x0.st/-OR5.png
[10:44] <quadrat> Thedarkb1 so is there an issue?
[10:45] <Thedarkb1> Nevermind, remembered how to use ifconfig.
[10:46] <tomreyn> quadrat: ruby-json 2.3.0+dfsg-1build1 is available from focal/universe on theser architectures: source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
[10:46] <Thedarkb1> And dhclient as well.
[10:46] <quadrat> tomreyn but why does apt upgrade tell me then, that there are no updates?
[10:46] <quadrat> pretty sure my pins are correct? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6Hv47r4p2t/
[10:47] <tomreyn> can you post    sudo apt-get update    and    sudo apt-get upgrade     and     sudo apt-get dist-upgrade     outputs, too?
[10:48] <tomreyn> are you doing all of this just to get chromium broser from linux mint?
[10:49] <quadrat> yes, as I want to figure out if the bug I have on snap is because snap or chromium itself
[10:50] <quadrat> hm interesting, so dist-upgrade does have upgrades, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9VHJwJBpxt/
[10:50] <tomreyn> there's another distribution which actually builds packages comnpatible to ubuntu: ungoogled.chromium. it has source code modifications, though, as the name suggests
[10:51] <tomreyn> there does not seem to be a problem with update-manager's output based on what i've seen so far.
[10:53] <quadrat> yeah, still unsure why there are upgrades in dist-upgrade just installed this system today :/
[10:55] <quadrat> tomreyn: last question before I leave you alone ;), can you tell me why apt wants to upgrade software-properties-gtk? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TqC6MVZQmB shouldn't it not upgrade because of the pinning?
[10:56] <tomreyn> quadrat: it should, and that's what it does, see "Candidate", line 4
[10:57] <tomreyn> i mean it should not upgrade, and that's what it does (not, i.e. no action)
[10:59] <quadrat> tomreyn ungoogled-chromium has a repo? as I can't find anything on their site
[11:00] <cbreak> how about firefox? :)
[11:00] <quadrat> cbreak firefox is my main browser, but firefox is so locked down, that I sometimes need a second browser, especially for my internal sites ;)
[11:01] <tomreyn> quadrat: https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-debian
[11:01] <quadrat> tomreyn thanks
[11:02] <tomreyn> there are also a lot of PPAs: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=chromium
[11:03] <tomreyn> some of their descriptions suggest they provide chromium-browser deb's as a result of ubuntu ceasing to.
[11:03] <quadrat> tomreyn eh, I rather take ungoogled-chromium then
[11:04] <tomreyn> https://launchpad.net/~phd.re/+archive/ubuntu/chromium-browser looks recent
[11:07] <tomreyn> apparently those are just rebuilds of the official 18.04 packages
[11:23] <cbreak> a 3 year old browser... that's sure to be a security minefield :/
[11:24] <quadrat> cbreak oO how come? chromium gets updated all the time
[11:26] <cbreak> wasn't the problem ubuntu stopped to provide updates?
[11:27] <quadrat> cbreak 18.04 is the last distro which supports deb versions of chromium
[11:28] <quadrat> (so till 2023)
[11:37] <cbreak> hmm... did they switch to snap?
[11:38] <quadrat> cbreak with every distro after that
[11:38] <quadrat> ah release i mean
[11:39] <cbreak> that shouldn't be too bad then
[11:39] <cbreak> those snap things at least provide some isolation, even if it comes at major costs :(
[11:50] <ravage> https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2020/11/chromium-browser-deb-available-linux-mint-20/
[11:50] <ravage> Works great as my secondary browser
[11:52] <quadrat> ravage i removed chromium from linuxmint, as it pulls in mint stuff
[12:01] <ravage> Does not pull in anything here really
[12:31] <node1> Hi, may i know what's wrong here https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PTX4fSbCCD/ why i;m not able to install ? peek from apt?
[12:34] <ioria> node1, have you tried to change the repository ?
[12:36] <node1> yno
[12:36] <node1> no
[12:37] <ioria> node1, Software & Updates
[12:37] <yates> what's the difference between snaps and .debs?
[12:46] <cbreak> deb packages contain only the required files, for installation on a system, and meta data for dependency tracking
[12:46] <cbreak> snaps contain a whole runtime environment / userland
[12:46] <cbreak> and they are not meant to be installed
[12:54] <leftyfb> cbreak: "not meant to be installed"?
[12:54] <cbreak> yes. They are mounted as-is
[12:55] <leftyfb> ah
[12:55] <cbreak> while debs are unpacked and sprinkled across the filesystem
[13:03] <yates> cbreak: so are snaps some sort of container?
[13:03] <cbreak> that word is so overloaded... as far as I know, they do contain things, yes.
[13:04] <cbreak> they're superficially similar to disk images. But I'm not sure how they're implemented in detail
[13:04] <yates> cbreak: ha. yeah, i've been trying to understand what a container is for years.
[13:06] <sectec84> Is there any way to install the NVIDIA CUDA toolkit without all of the X11 stuff?
[13:06] <sectec84> when I 'apt-get install nvidia-cuda-toolkit' it is trying to install X11 and all manner of other useless stuff ... >2GB in packages
[13:07] <sectec84> I am running on a server that doesn't have/need X11
[13:07] <cbreak> sectec84: considered installing just the pieces?
[13:07] <sectec84> What is the minimal pieces I need to use CUDA with Python/Torch?
[13:08] <yates> sectec84: what cbreak said. is there a github of the main toolkit, e.g.?
[13:08] <cbreak> sectec84: the drivers and the runtime? :)
[13:09] <cbreak> I think the toolkit is more to develop / compile with cuda
[13:09] <cbreak> it contains gui tools for profiling
[13:09] <cbreak> (I think)
[13:09] <yates> is nvidia as "closed source" with their cuda stuff as they are with their video drivers?
[13:10] <yates> if so i doubt you'll find it in the wild.
[13:10] <cbreak> there's probably a better way to do it, but you can do apt show nvidia-cuda-toolkit to show what it depends on, since it's just a meta package
[13:10] <sectec84> yates, I couldn't find a minimal package anywhere ... The only thing besides installing through apt was a huge (multi-GB) binary runfile from their site
[13:11] <cbreak> sectec84: there are .deb packages
[13:11] <cbreak> those are rather modular in what you can install
[13:11] <yates> sectec84: multi-GB isn't all that big there days.. :)
[13:11] <yates> these
[13:11] <sectec84> yates, it is for me trying to keep my costs down on AWS :)
[13:11] <yates> oh, that. yeah.
[13:11] <yates> S3 packeets
[13:11] <cbreak> you're using your own system?
[13:12] <cbreak> if you use one of those docker things, nvidia has images that come with cuda
[13:12] <cbreak> and google has images that come with tensorflow
[13:12] <sectec84> cbreak, Yeah, I'm using my own system. just playing around with VQGAN+CLIP text to image generator https://colab.research.google.com/drive/1go6YwMFe5MX6XM9tv-cnQiSTU50N9EeT#scrollTo=TkUfzT60ZZ9q
[13:12] <sectec84> trying to clone this on AWS to run it with more resources / GPUs
[13:15] <cbreak> https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64&Distribution=Ubuntu&target_version=20.04&target_type=deb_network
[13:17] <sectec84> cbreak - yeah thats the one that wants to install X11 and everythinhg
[13:17] <cbreak> also read https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-installation-guide-linux/index.html#package-manager-metas
[13:17] <sectec84> that's what I tried (as well as the runfile next to it)
[13:17] <cbreak> you'll want the runtime
[13:17] <cbreak> sectec84: forget about the run file
[13:17] <sectec84> ahhhh thanks
[13:17] <cbreak> the deb package is better
[13:18] <sectec84> yeah totally
[13:18] <sectec84> I didn't see that in the install guide - I think that's what I needed
[13:19] <cbreak> if that's not enough, check which packages require x11
[13:20] <sectec84> omfg, nope -- still wants to install X11 even with the runtime.
[13:20] <sectec84> how do I check which ones require X11?
[13:21] <cbreak> there's probably a better way, but apt show shows dependencies
[13:22] <sectec84> this is so stupid lol ... like why would you require installing all of X11 just to be able to use a driver? I would expect something like this from nvidia :/
[13:26] <cbreak> their driver might provide x11 stuff
[13:26] <cbreak> like opengl for it?
[13:33] <sectec84> lol fuck it - I'm just gonna install X11 and let Amazon take that precious $0.10 per month from me
[13:38] <fling> Where to find old/deleted debs?
[13:57] <Farol> hi
[13:58] <leftyfb> fling: what do you mean?
[13:58] <leftyfb> Farol: please do not send private messages. What can we help you with?
[14:00] <Farol> you have ssh bro leftyfb ?
[14:00] <leftyfb> Farol: do you have an ubuntu support question? This is an ubuntu support channel. All other discussions and questions can be directed at #ubuntu-offtopic
[14:01] <leftyfb> bro
[14:35] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:36] <pasiz> hi hi
[14:36] <kirk781> Hi all
[15:16] <sectec84> Hi y'all!
[15:16] <tomreyn> hi sectec84
[17:54] <sarnold> yates: debs have 'maintainer scripts'
[17:54] <sarnold> yates: .. the maintainer scripts run unconfined, as root, and there's no real way you can confine them, at all. they're also pretty fragile -- any maintainer script that fails will fail an entire upgrade process
[17:55] <sarnold> yates: snaps are (usually) sandboxed with both apparmor policies and seccomp policies to limit what they can do
[17:56] <sarnold> yates: snap packages have their own versions of maintainer scripts, but one failing won't effect other packages, and their scripts run under the same confinement as the other parts of the package
[17:57] <sarnold> yates: so, when you add a new ppa or repository to your system, you're giving whoever controls that repo's private key with unconfined root access to your system. with snaps it's a bit different, it's usually not unconfined
[18:55] <noarb> is there a package available to monitor an ubuntu server running nginx? not to process logs, but more like an htop available over http?
[18:57] <sarnold> netdata, prometheus, observium, there's dozens more like these :)
[18:58] <coconut> oh i thought there was only htop over ssh...
[19:00] <noarb> ok, thanks. I was wondering more for an html htop that can run on ubuntu core pi, not something with a database. I'll keep digging around
[19:01] <sarnold> noarb: if it's literally htop-on-a-website that you want, you can do https://github.com/shellinabox/shellinabox ... just be extra super careful with it :)
[19:08] <noarb> what a cool tool. Seems like you can do some great things with it. (terrible, yes, but great.)
[19:09] <sarnold> rofl
[19:15] <entuland> was that an harry potter quote?
[19:17] <sarnold> yeah
[19:24] <kodiakf> Hello, long-time RHEL professional here, now supporting Ubuntu server.  While our company are Canonical UA customers, I didn't want to file a ticket quite yet as this is more of a "how do I?" - the question is about package management - specifically undoing or rolling back a set of package updates.  I expected to find something as simple as 'yum history undo', but no dice - is it really true that I need to pick through
[19:24] <kodiakf> apt/history.log and pull out updated to/from package data and then run 'apt install package=oldvernum ?   That seems a little wonky....
[19:26] <leftyfb> kodiakf: AFAIK, yes
[19:26] <sarnold> kodiakf: yeah, that's the process; the maintainer scripts aren't written from the perspective of regularly doing downgrades, so it's not exactly an operation that is made convenient and easy
[19:27] <gordonjcp> yup
[19:27] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: in general if you find yourself rolling back upgrades "for real" then you're basically doing something fundamentally wrong
[19:27] <sarnold> kodiakf: worse still, the archives aren't guaranteed to have everything; you may need to resort to manual downloads from launchpad to get some older versions of packages
[19:27] <kodiakf> hrm... that is a bit wild.  We were very gung ho about automatic patch application on the RHEL side (ie weekly, all patches, then a reboot), because we knew we could roll back any poison patches that came down the pike, even on 450+ servers
[19:28] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: that's...
[19:28] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: thank you for sharing that with us, that's horrifying
[19:28] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: in general "stable" versions shouldn't have anything that's a breaking change
[19:28] <kodiakf> we'd get about 2 problematic patches per year from Red Hat, and would be a single one-shot ansible play away from rolling back the whole fleet when needed
[19:29] <gordonjcp> okay ansible makes me feel better
[19:29] <gordonjcp> but
[19:29] <leftyfb> kodiakf: unlike Redhat, Ubuntu isn't a rolling release. And even moreso with the LTS releases, they're very stable.
[19:29] <gordonjcp> in Debian Stable and Ubuntu LTS, you wouldn't expect big changes per update
[19:29] <kodiakf> eg - sssd breaking patches because the SSSD people mostly test against FreeIPA and in the real world it's mostly AD
[19:30] <leftyfb> kodiakf: you coulddo the same with ubuntu (ansible), you would just have to craft the playbook for each package downgrade
[19:30] <kodiakf> so on those odd occasions where our infra would have a problematic environmental issue with a given patch, we'd just downgrade quite simply: (https://access.redhat.com/solutions/64069)
[19:31] <sarnold> kodiakf: fwiw we mostly prepare updates with that in mind, we've got the unattended-upgrades pacakge installed by default, which means tens of millions of machines get security updates installed overnight
[19:31] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: if a package in 20.04 LTS is broken, it will be fixed *if and only if* it doesn't break something else :-)
[19:31] <kodiakf> I thought I might be seeing my first poison patches this week with the most recent Ubuntu 20.04 SSSD packages but when I went to do my first rollback I discovered that I couldn't even roll back to the last set of SSSD packages
[19:32] <leftyfb> kodiakf: was there a 20.04 sssd package that broke something?
[19:32] <kodiakf> ha that's the crux of the question at hand - hard to roll back to verify it was the packages and not something environmental!
[19:33] <leftyfb> kodiakf: should be pretty simple to look through the dpkg.log and see what the previous version was and reinstall it
[19:33] <kodiakf> One would think
[19:34] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: can you snapshot a machine before you upgrade it?
[19:34] <kodiakf> gordonjcp - that's what they do here now which kills our patch cadence
[19:34] <leftyfb> gordonjcp: only if it's a VM or running a filesystem with snapshots built in
[19:34] <kodiakf> the vmware snapshots aren't automated and I hate hate hate dealing with vcenter api
[19:35] <kodiakf> so in just trying to roll back a single package from this morning's automated upgrades, total fail:  E: Version '2.2.3-3ubuntu0.4' for 'sssd-common' was not found
[19:35] <kodiakf> it's like it's already gone
[19:35] <gordonjcp> leftyfb: which is the only sane way to do it these days
[19:35] <sarnold> kodiakf: dang
[19:35] <gordonjcp> kodiakf: potentially you could build the package yourself
[19:35] <sarnold> kodiakf: head to the package's source pacakge page on launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sssd
[19:36] <sarnold> kodiakf: hit the 'full publishing history' link on the right sidebar near the top
[19:36] <kodiakf> so even if we had a faint suspicion on the Red Hat side of the house that we had a bad patch on our hands - we were one rock solid command away from a rollback - and it always worked.  Wild to me that APT doesn't have something similar
[19:36] <leftyfb> kodiakf: 2.2.3-3ubuntu0.1 is available
[19:36] <sarnold> kodiakf: find the version you need, find the architecture you need, there's links to all the binary packages
[19:36] <kodiakf> Thanks guys - I have def picked around launchpad before but that seems like craziness
[19:37] <sarnold> yeah I wish they left the old versions of packages on the mirrors a bit longer
[19:37] <kodiakf> I'm thinking about switching over to an on-prem APT mirror that never purges
[19:37] <sarnold> aptly -- unfortunately no longer maintained :(
[19:37] <kodiakf> no aptly is in hot hot hot development now
[19:37] <kodiakf> it went thru a lull
[19:37] <kodiakf> it's back
[19:37] <kodiakf> new leadership
[19:38] <kodiakf> check out the github
[19:38] <kodiakf> they can't get the old aptly.info website taken down sadly and it's way out of date, but the underlying project and releases are getting tonnes of daily commit activity
[19:39] <leftyfb> kodiakf: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/523926353/sssd-common_2.2.3-3ubuntu0.4_amd64.deb
[19:39] <kodiakf> anywho - we are also site licensed for Landscape and I think this will solve some of the package vanishing problems when we set up on-prem Landscape but the product overall is still really primitive
[19:39] <kodiakf> IMO the problem is more with apt itself, not having better rollback capabilities
[19:41] <sarnold> kodiakf: oh yeah?? sweet :) I thought a few folks said they wanted to participate but then nothing happened
[19:41] <kodiakf> We're a tiny customer for Canonical compared to most but I'm going to go ahead and toss a ticket into the void about this
[19:42] <kodiakf> we have a Landscape account rep as well so I'll hassle her too
[19:42] <sarnold> yay, thanks :)
[19:43] <kodiakf> I've seen some 3rd party scripts such as apt-undo that attempt this functionality and thought that surely that was just for some older version of apt and that this was a solved problem already
[19:53] <kodiakf> sarnold since you are @ubuntu if you are curious I just submitted case 00315115 RFE'ing into the void with not much hope
[19:54] <sarnold> kodiakf: sorry, I've got no idea what happens in the commercial side of things
[19:55] <sarnold> kodiakf: certainly you're not he first to want it easier to roll back an update, though
[19:55] <kodiakf> We're a .edu so while we happily pay Canonical, we're a small fry
[19:56] <mybalzitch> mmmm fries
[19:57] <sarnold> mm fries :) hehe
[20:08] <joystick> Hello, anyone know what the most recent version of Ubuntu is? - thanks!
[20:09] <oerheks> really, you cannot find that easy info?
[20:09] <oerheks> 21.04
[20:09] <oerheks> !yymm
[20:09] <joystick> really didn't mean to offend you - sorry
[20:10] <oerheks> no offence at all, just surprised
[20:10] <joystick> 21.4 thank you
[20:10] <joystick> 21.04
[20:11] <mybalzitch> 20.04 is the latest long term support release
[20:11] <oerheks> and the next one
[20:11] <oerheks> !impish
[20:14] <kodiakf> !warty
[20:51] <kodiakf> Sarnold:  These are interesting - might kick tires and report back after I cut a couple systems over to my internal mirror which has old packages.  https://salsa.debian.org/PatH/apt-revert  https://github.com/slowpeek/apt-undo
[21:11] <sarnold> kodiakf: oh interesting, I haven't seen a project using julia before
[21:17] <sarnold> kodiakf: tough choice; apt-undo feels a bit more 'direct' and probably more like what I was expecting, but being written in shell has advantages (copy it over and run it) and disadvantages (I'm so tired of seeing brittle shell scripts)
[21:21] <gdb> I like shellcheck.
[21:22] <koala_man> thanks ^^
[21:22] <gdb> shellcheck - lint tool for shell scripts
[21:23] <sarnold> oh yeah shellcheck is good stuff
[21:23] <sarnold> it's not always right :) but it's well worth running
[21:26] <geirha> just too bad it doesn't warn about the dangers of set -e
[21:27] <koala_man> I've wanted to, but "set -e has a bunch of pitfalls" is not very practical advice
[21:28] <gdb> set -e is useful if you don't want to do any error handling yourself and "bail on fail" is what you're interested in. Otherwise it's best to do your own error handling.
[21:28] <koala_man> if it reliably bailed on fail, it would be much more useful
[21:28] <leftyfb> except when you might need to cleanup/undo changes on failure
[21:28] <geirha> the problem is that set -e doesn't do that in all cases
[21:29] <gdb> Yeah, hence "bail on fail" you're not handling any errors. You're saying "something went wrong, die." So cleanup won't happen.
[21:30] <geirha> I mean when it goes the other way. When a failing command is ignored by set -e
[21:30] <koala_man> "bail on fail, or maybe continue on fail, or maybe bail on success"
[21:30] <gdb> geirha: I've not seen that, but I don't use -e often enough to run into it. ;-)
[21:31] <geirha> gdb: A couple of examples here: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls#pf60
[21:33] <gdb> And the #1 reason, right there: "It's not actually possible for the shell to detect errors. All it has to go on is a command's exit status. When commands fail, they normally return a non-zero exit status, but many commands also use the exit status to convey a true/false value"
[21:33] <geirha> the next two are more sinister
[21:34]  * gdb read and thinks, "ouch..."
[21:35] <kodiakf> is there the concept of a "metric" so that a package on one repo beats another repo's copy by merit of the repo having a higher/lower metric?
[21:35] <sarnold> kodiakf: pinning
[21:36] <kodiakf> not package pinning right?
[21:36] <Mat1010> Hello. How can I install Ubuntu without deleting the documents and files that I already have in Ubuntu?
[21:37] <kodiakf> Basically I want local to beat remote/archive.ubuntu, but to be able to fall back to archive.ubuntu when needed.  Local is a mirror or archive.ubuntu
[21:37] <kodiakf> (BBIAB)
[21:37] <sarnold> kodiakf: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration#Prevent.2Fselective_installation_from_third-party_a_repository
[21:40] <gdb> Mat1010: Can you clarify what you're wanting to do? You have an Ubuntu computer that you want to .. install Ubuntu on? I don't understand.
[21:41] <Mat1010> Yes
[21:41] <gdb> Mat1010: Do you mean to upgrade to a newer version?
[21:41] <Mat1010> Yes
[21:41] <oerheks> the installer gives an option, replace current ubuntu...
[21:41] <gdb> Mat1010: And you want to perform this upgrade as a clean install or as an in-place upgrade?
[21:41] <oerheks> and Mat1010 if you have no backup of your data, it does not matter.
[21:42] <Mat1010> Clear
[21:42] <Mat1010> if you have no backup of your data, it does not matter--> No
[21:43] <gdb> If you want to do a clean install of a newer version of Ubuntu without erasing existing user data, then that user data must already exist on a seperate volume. Meaning you must have /home on its own partition or logical volume. Otherwise you will need to backup that data to other media, perform your installation, and then restore the data to the newly installed operating system.
[21:43] <Mat1010> if you have no backup of your data, it does not matter--> no matter
[21:45] <Mat1010> I do not have an external storage volume available to save the pdf documents
[21:45] <oerheks> then good luck with the upgrade !
[21:45] <gdb> Mat1010: Do you have access to cloud storage you can use? For example, Google Drive or Microsoft OneDrive?
[21:45] <Mat1010> That on this occasion only those documents are important
[21:45] <sarnold> Mat1010: I haven't been following along.. but could you grab some storage space on aws's ec2 or something similar?
[21:46] <oerheks> mail them to yourslef
[21:46] <gdb> Or even Apple iCloud? You don't even need a client to upload files, you can use a web browser (with all 3 of these services)
[21:49] <Mat1010> Can you explain to me how to use or generate: " but could you grab some storage space on aws's ec2"
[21:50] <oerheks> = buy storage space
[21:50] <oerheks> lolz
[21:50] <Mat1010> is a storage block on the same hard drive?
[21:51] <oerheks> would that survive format, same hard drive?
[21:51] <gdb> Mat1010: No, EC2 would be another example of cloud storage. None of these options are local storage. You suggested you do not have any external disks to use so all of these are over the Internet.
[21:51] <Mat1010> ok
[21:58] <sarnold> Mat1010: aws for instance has a free tier that might be enough to get you out of a jam https://aws.amazon.com/free/
[22:00] <Mat1010> How good
[22:06] <sarnold> Mat1010: I pay $3.50 per month for an aws instance with 1 vcpu, 20GB disk, 512M ram. it's enough for irssi. I long ago used up my free trial :) so it's a bit hard to spot what exactly they'd give you for free these days..
[22:07] <sarnold> Mat1010: the s3 storage stuff might be cheaper / easier / larger but I don't know how to access it without using funky tools (and I don't even know those, I just know they exist)
[22:13] <kodiakf> sarnold++
[22:17] <coke> sarnold: if its just a vps you want https://www.hetzner.com/cloud
[22:17] <coke> 4x the ram for less
[22:18] <coke> not as fancy as aws I guess
[22:18] <sarnold> probably easier to use
[22:18] <sarnold> because aws man
[22:18] <coke> yea the admin interface is really minimal
[22:18] <coke> was might be something you can use in your cv though
[22:19] <coke> AWS
[23:26] <f_ayx> Hello! Could use some help... Plasma running 5.19 and qt 5.14 on Ubuntu 20.10 and I get black borders around windows with certain themes
[23:28] <oerheks> but 20.10 is EOL?
[23:29] <oerheks> upgrade to a supported version, please
[23:38] <f_ayx> I just upgraded to 20.10 from 20.04 and I was having the same issues
[23:39] <sarnold> keep going to 21.04 and see how that goes
[23:42] <mybalzitch> 21.04 fixed a bunch of kde issues I was having in 20.04 anyway
[23:42] <mybalzitch> not that specific issue though
[23:43] <oerheks> yes, gt 5.15.2 and so on
[23:43] <oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HirsuteHippo/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu
[23:44] <oerheks> ps. carefull with "certain themes"