[12:04] hi all i have downloaded lubuntu 64 bit iso and then created a bootable pendrive by using ubuntu startup disk. somehow i was not able to install lubuntu cuz it refused to boot from the disk. [12:05] however after i installed another distro and i was able to boot from the pen drive and i could install the distro [12:05] the distro i tried to install was lubuntu 21.04 64bit version [12:06] what could be the reason for not being able to use it as livecd ? [12:06] did you verify the ISO before writing to media? https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/1/1.1/retrieving_the_image.html mentions verification [12:06] yes [12:06] in my experience the write to USB-thumb-drive is where it fails the most (about 5-8% of writes I find are faulty.. for whatever reason) [12:06] three times i downloaded the iso [12:07] if you verified a checksum; why did you download it again? [12:07] tried the iso and by torrent [12:07] the Ubuntu instructions for verification can be found at https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-how-to-verify-ubuntu#0 [12:08] to verify the boot media; I'd try booting the thumb-drive in another box (or two) - if it fails to boot in those boxes; I'd assume the write to the thumb-drive was faulty [12:09] on some boxes you cannot boot a thumb-drive without holding specific keys (ie. hardware security options that can be changed often in bios/uefi config); but that's box specific [12:10] i have only one desktop [12:11] let me try checksum . i will come back once i verify in this way [12:15] guiverc: it is really confusing now. help me please :| [12:15] i am not sure how to use the checksum [12:16] the easiest method is following the lubuntu link I first provided (ie. lubuntu manual) [12:17] ie. look for the command "sha256sum lubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso" in the manual in the "Downloading the image via HTTP" section [12:17] ah yes . the second link completely confused me. thanks . this i can follow [12:18] when I used the command "sha256sum hirsute-desktop-amd64.iso" I get the same checksum as the manual says I should (my name is what it was called pre-release) [12:19] currently downloading the iso again cuz i deleted it [12:19] sorry for confusing you (2nd link; ignore my command too; my download was done before 21.04 was released so it uses the codename) [12:20] also are there 2 websites for lubuntu ? [12:20] cuz when i googled for it i got lubuntu.net [12:20] no there is one Lubuntu web site (lubuntu.me); other sites exist that aren't associated with Lubuntu, Ubuntu etc [12:21] you'll can be offered more than just those two places to download lubuntu from google; but only lubuntu.me is legit [12:21] yeah i am downloading from ubuntu.me only [12:21] If you're unsure which is legit; do NOT ask google; Ubuntu.com will direct you to legitimate flavor site; ie. https://ubuntu.com/download/flavours [12:21] because when i tried to download iso from .net site it failed to download [12:23] It's what many here refer to as a "fan" site.. we don't control it, cannot do anything about it; it's usually outdated but not giving spam/false ISOs as to my knowledge at least; it directs downloads to cdimage.ubuntu.com [12:24] yes it does and the iso couldn't be downloaded either [12:24] it gives an error message [12:24] most likely because it was providing links that are wrong (outdated, EOL etc) [12:25] either way you'd not want data from lubuntu.net as it's NOT a Lubuntu site [12:25] yeah [12:25] downloaded the iso from ubuntu.me [12:26] lubuntu.me, ubuntu's site is ubuntu.com [12:26] also i have this doubt . why is file system as iso9660 instead of ext4 for live cds ? [12:27] murlidhar: the clue is in the name "live *CD*" - CD's contain ISO9660 file-systems [12:27] ISO9660 is a type of system (standard) that can be booted. ext4 is a native file system of GNU/Linux that needs to be booted by something (Ubuntu generally uses `grub` to boot) [12:28] okies [12:28] murlidhar: we build hybrid ISO9660 images that can also use other boot methods so they'll also boot in non CD devices [12:31] murlidhar@murlidhar-desktop:~/Downloads$ sha256sum lubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso [12:31] 7089fa1045b776256a76adb30d6e588e09df2ad5cd0ffe63a8d6e802b6b3cc19 lubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso [12:31] seems fine to me [12:32] looks fine to me (matches the manual it looks like to me; like mine) [12:32] haven't checked each and every alphabet though [12:32] ok i will try to create a livecd now [12:32] startup disk creator is mentioned in ubuntu tutorials; what release are you writing the ISO with? [12:33] guiverc: do you mean the version? [12:33] the OS you're writing the ISO to pen-drive; what is it? [12:33] 21.04 [12:34] ah this one [12:34] bodhi linux currently [12:34] it uses ubuntu repositories so... [12:34] I'm wondering if it's an old version of Startup disk creator & cannot cope with the type of ISO used by 21.04 (ie. an old bodhi linux maybe; not current) [12:35] so what do you suggest ? [12:35] I have little experience with the app, so aren't sure if it works with 21.04 ISOs. I know some apps needed to be modified to work with recent ISOs [12:36] why is startup disk creator required here? ISO can be directly copied to the installer device in almost all cases [12:36] A risky alternative is `dd`; I'd personally suggest `mkusb` though as it's safer (what I generally use) [12:36] the manual page for writing ISO to media is https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/1/1.2/booting_the_image.html [12:37] why is it risky? no more risky that using 'cp' [12:37] well i have no idea about it . since it is there in the repos i just used it to create livecd. it created for bodhi linux which is running the LTS version of ubuntu [12:37] which LTS release of Ubuntu? [12:37] 20.04 [12:37] bodhi is based on that currently [12:38] if i remember it correctly [12:38] I'm not familiar with bodhi sorry. https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-ubuntu#1-overview is the Ubuntu tutorial on writing an ISO to pendrive (using Ubuntu) [12:39] guiverc: it mentions the same. to use startup disk creator [12:40] the ubuntu tutorial suggests 18.04 & later should be okay... all I can think of is trying a different pendrive (they don't last forever) [12:40] bodhi is based on 20.04 so i guess it should work fine [12:41] bodhi 32-bit is based on 18.04; bodhi 64-bit is 20.04 it looks like [12:41] mine is 64 bit only [12:41] am running on E7500 intel processor [12:42] other than trying another pendrive/thumb-drive; some machines require a specific key to be pressed before they'll boot external media (ie. pendrive) [12:42] i remember cuz i installed darktable dev versions [12:43] guiverc: i have pendrive only [12:43] it created live cd of bodhi and it was bootable which is why i could install it in my desktop [12:44] I'm out of ideas sorry murlidhar [12:44] ah [12:44] * guiverc is also tired & ready for bed; night time here :) [12:44] guiverc: goodnight . thanks for help :) [12:45] :) sorry I couldn't solve it for you [12:46] thats ok. i will try it one more time . [12:46] murlidhar: what's the device node (name) of the pen drive? [12:46] e.g. /dev/sdg [12:46] /sdb [12:47] sdb1 [12:47] can see that in gparted [12:48] err just sdb [12:48] right, so assuming your IOS file is "lubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso" all you need do is: "sudo dd if=lubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=16M status=progress conv=fsync" [12:48] just one partition in it [12:49] TJ-: so i better not use the startup disk creator ? [12:50] murlidhar: I don't see the point! The ISO images are bootable disk images [12:50] ok [12:51] They contain BIOS/MBR with syslinux/isolinux, ISO9660 El-Torito boot loader, GPT/EFI-SP for UEFI with GRUB [12:52] what does bs=16 mean ? [12:52] bs=16M means use in-memory buffers of size 16 megabytes for input and output (speeds things up) [12:53] otherwise the defaultis 512 bytes, which causes many more reads and writes [12:53] ah i get it [12:56] TJ-: done [12:56] i will just reboot then [12:57] TJ-: btw any reason why we shifted to libera from freenode ? its an off topic ofcourse . [12:57] maybe i should ask in offtopic channel [12:58] murlidhar: Freenode was 'taken over' by a possesive control-freak type personality (assets owned by that person who parted ways with the volunteer operators) [12:59] oh [12:59] its unfortunate. been there since 2008 [12:59] when did we all shift here ? [13:01] about 2 months ago I think [13:01] the person and their supporters were taking over project channels and blocking channel operators, and so forth [13:01] ok . i didn't know and when i joined there i lost my nick and i was shocked that there was no one in ubuntu-offtopic [13:02] i was regular to that channel back in feisty fawn days [13:02] where we had to give grub commands and everything was not automated :D [13:04] anyways i will reboot the desktop now and check if i can boot up the livecd! [13:04] good to see everyone here [13:08] TJ-: nope . it didnt work. live cd didnt boot [13:08] TJ-: well not sure if it matter i am running on 4GB ddr2 ram [13:09] matters* [13:09] atleast it shoot boot from the disk [13:09] murlidhar: what actually happened though? what did you see? [13:09] should* [13:09] and what boot mode are you using? BIOS or UEFI? [13:10] bios i believe [13:10] its an old pc [13:10] no windows at all [13:10] do you use a manual boot menu to choose the device to boot from? [13:11] do u mean grub menu ? [13:11] or the bios settings ? [13:11] No, the PC's boot device selector [13:11] its on usb first and then HDD drive [13:12] i know it works cuz it worked for bodhi linux livecd [13:12] and antix [13:12] does it not have a hot-key to press at startup that brings up the device selector, as well? [13:12] yes F2 [13:12] and the USB appears on that menu? [13:12] yes it does [13:13] does the USB appear more than once? [13:13] (sometimes the BIOS will detect the multiple boot modes and offer the same device multiple times) [13:13] err i didn't check it this time though [13:13] older PCs with BIOS would have USB-FDD, USB-CD, USB-HDD modes (the 1st 2 would fail with the hybrid ISO) [13:14] usb - hdd [13:14] with usb 1st priority [13:14] thats why i could install bodhi linux [13:14] and antix too [13:15] so that should boot via syslinux, BIOS/MBR mode [13:16] yes [13:16] my mbr is written on primary disk [13:16] sda [13:16] 1 [13:17] bodhi is installed on sda1 [13:17] which is what i am currently using right now. [13:17] on sda10 my old lubuntu 19.04 is installed right now [13:18] however i want to install a fresh one on /sda1 and leave the sda10 for trial distros [13:19] why the trouble with lubuntu is what baffles me when i could create live cd successfully with other lighter distros but not able with lubuntu [13:20] not with lubuntu* [13:21] TJ-: do you suggest me to try with LTS ? [13:21] since bodhi is based on that version only [13:23] murlidhar: no, the ISO has MBR, that is what I am referring to [13:26] i am sure it has but why do u think it is not recognising it and booting from usb just for this distro ? [13:26] you* [13:27] there are known bugs in firmware that can cause weird issues. Right now we are no 100% sure what mode the PC is trying [13:27] I wrote the diagnostic boot sector for syslinux back in 2007. You could try putting that on the USb and seeing what it reports [13:27] mode as in ? [13:28] TJ-: ok . i will try that [13:28] murlidhar: mode as in how the BIOS is treating the USB [13:28] let me get the link for you [13:30] this is my source-code with a header explaining what the code does. I'll follow up with a link to the actual boot sector (only 440 bytes) and tell you how to copy it onto the USB [13:30] https://iam.tj/projects/misc/mbr-diag.S [13:30] fetch the boot sector with "wget https://iam.tj/projects/misc/mbr-diag.bin" [13:30] done saved. [13:31] now back-up the boot sector from the existing USB. Assuming the USB device is currently /dev/sdb again then do "sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=mbr.backup.bin bs=440 count=1" [13:32] now write the diagnostic MBR to the device with sudo "dd if=/mbr-diag.bin of/dev/sdb" then boot the PC and tell me what it reports. If nothing is reported then the PC isn't booting the USB [13:32] hmmm, typo there [13:33] "sudo dd if=mbr-diag.bin of/dev/sdb" [13:33] oh no another!! [13:33] "sudo dd if=mbr-diag.bin of=/dev/sdb" [13:33] TJ-: should i erase the data from pendrive ? [13:33] * TJ- goes for coffee! [13:33] murlidhar: no, just do as I say, you're just altering sector 0 temporarily [13:33] ok [13:33] this is the boot-strap code in sector 0 that BIOS reads and executes on boot [13:34] ok let me get my head into it slowly [13:34] first backing up the boot sector [13:35] all this code does is tell us, in a very compressed form, how the BIOS loaded it [13:35] it's only 435 bytes so there's not much functionality you can get into it! [13:36] sudo dd if=mbr-diag.bin of=/dev/sdb [13:36] this is the first step ? [13:38] murlidhar: 2nd step after doing the backup [13:38] 1st step: "sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=mbr.backup.bin bs=440 count=1" [13:38] ah yes i figured [13:39] murlidhar@murlidhar-desktop:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=mbr.backup.bin bs=440 count=1 [13:39] [sudo] password for murlidhar: [13:39] 1+0 records in [13:39] 1+0 records out [13:39] 440 bytes copied, 0.00129966 s, 339 kB/s [13:39] that's your backup which can be put back once we've done the test [13:40] ok did the second step too [13:40] 435 bytes [13:40] 3rd step ... boot the USB and report what it writes to the screen [13:40] okies [13:40] if it doesn't report anything, it didn't boot in BIOS/MBR mode [13:40] okies [13:40] going now [13:43] TJ-: guess it didn't boot in BIOS/MBR [13:43] didn't report anything. just went to grub menu directly [13:43] murlidhar: right, so that means there's an issue in the BIOS boot code; maybe some other options to control how/what it tries [13:43] GRUB menu of the installed system? [13:43] TJ-: yes [13:43] bodhi [13:44] did you use the PC's manual boot device chooser? [13:44] or did you just let the PC pick a boot device? [13:44] since i am dual booting it with an old version of lubuntu [13:45] my feeling is when you let the PC pick the boot device itself it isn't trying the USB for some reason [13:45] yes . there is only an option of priority [13:46] where u can select to boot from usb if available [13:46] should i take the pics of it from my phone ? [13:46] of the bios settings ? [13:50] TJ-: ok i will get into BIOs settings and take a few pics cuz i am sure you will understand it better than me. also i will try to boot it by selecting usb manually if possible [13:55] TJ-: are you around? [13:55] I'm asquare :) [13:55] TJ-: well where do you suggest i dump the picture ? [13:55] imgur? [13:56] ok [13:59] TJ-: https://ibb.co/ZB9j2T9 [14:00] murlidhar: Sandisk is your USB I presume? [14:00] yes [14:01] it's last not first. Move it above Samsung HDD [14:01] i did [14:01] after taking the pic [14:01] also in the second last line it says boot USB first [14:02] you've got 3 groups in the order, CD/DVD, Hard Disk, and the Samsung and Sandisk are Hard Disk. Did you try moving the group "Hard Disk Drive" above "CD/DVD-ROM Drive" ? [14:02] TJ-: no. i have never touched that option [14:02] And we see the system is UEFI but UEFI boot is disabled. I'd enable that and try again. [14:02] will that not mess my mbr ? [14:03] OK, try moving the "Hard Disk Drive" group up first and see if the USB will start [14:03] no; this doesn't do any writing, it's only the search order for the boot device [14:03] okies [14:03] i meant about uefi thingy [14:03] if the HDD group 1st doesn't help try enabling UEFI boot and test again [14:03] okies [14:03] brb [14:10] TJ-: okay a few observations first. [14:10] nothing worked except uefi when enabled [14:11] i tried all the permutations and combinations [14:12] but when i selected boot from next volume something from the grub menu of the livecd ... i didn't boot [14:12] it only restarted and went to the grub menu of livecd . i was hoping that grub of hard disk will be loaded [14:13] UEFI just means it'll search for an EFI system partition on the USB and then the removable media bootloader path on that /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI [14:13] so i manually removed the usb drive and then restarted . only then i could boot from my HDD os [14:13] well that is good news isn't it? GRUB actually started from the USB! [14:14] yeah but the option of boot from next volume didn't work. and there was this error visible for a half a second that somehing not found. [14:15] TJ-: now i can install lubuntu :) [14:17] that would be expected since the 'next volume' isn't UEFI! [14:17] doesn't have an EFI-SP [14:18] ok [14:18] so if you go ahead, you'll have Lubuntu starting in UEFI mode but the others in BIOS mode (this assumes thedisk label (DOS/MBR or GPT) [14:18] when i install it ..... uefi be installed then ? [14:19] yes [14:20] obviously there's something about that PC that is broken in the BIOS implementation to cause this weird failure [14:20] ok so will there be two grub menus then ? [14:20] what does "journalctl -k | grep DMI" report as the make/model? [14:21] Aug 15 19:39:10 murlidhar-desktop kernel: DMI: /DG41RQ, BIOS RQG4110H.86A.0009.2009.0108.1005 01/08/20 [14:21] Aug 15 19:39:10 murlidhar-desktop kernel: ACPI: Added _OSI(Linux-Lenovo-NV-HDMI-Audio) [14:21] it has an inbuit GMA too [14:21] x4500 i believe [14:22] intel motherboard [14:23] TJ-: ok should i go ahead with installing and i can still dual boot with the distro that is in sda10 ? [14:24] cuz i believe mbr is always written in the primary partition which is sda1 in this case. also this distro will be installed in sda1 [14:25] no, that is incorrect [14:25] MBR is sector 0 of the disk [14:25] ok [14:25] the GRUB core image is written as a blocklist in sector 1+ [14:26] so whichever distro you install last will take over boot management [14:26] this is why UEFI is superior in multiboot situations [14:26] ah [14:27] also not sure but i have heard somewhere that windows has stopped supporting mbr [14:28] Latest Windows requires UEFI. UEFI spec mandates support for GPT and DOS labels) but some PC's firmware doesn't properly support DOS labels in UEFI mode [14:29] okies. [14:30] okay will have my dinner and then install the distro. thanks for the help as always TJ- . u helped me so many times in so many years now [14:31] if am running only linux and no windows since 2011 is cuz of support i get here :) [14:31] :) good luck [14:32] i remember we used those commands grub-update and grub-install cuz back then we had to do all that in terminals after installing the distro [14:32] I still do [14:32] yeah but now most of the things are automated. [14:32] I dont like the detali being obscured... for situations jsut like this! [14:33] :) [14:33] for you its fun. [14:33] for me i am always a noobie in linux no matter how many years i use it. i just don't get it [14:34] i just enjoy playing a flute and take photos as my passion. my left brain works more than my logical right brain [14:35] TJ-: take care . always nice to see you around :) [14:35] bye all. take cares === lubuntu is now known as murlidhar [14:50] TJ-: are you still around ? have a doubt while installing it is warning about EFI boot [14:50] i am logged in through the livecd right now [15:02] murlidhar: I'm here now [15:02] murlidhar: if it started in UEFI mode, and the disk label is DOS/MBR, then it will complain, as I said earlier [15:04] so what is the solution.... [15:06] do i give a mount point ? as / to sda1 [15:06] is the disk using LVM or are you replacing a partition ? [15:07] err i already have a partition ..... the bodhi is in sda1 and i wish to replace it with lubuntu [15:08] /home is in sda11 partition. [15:08] is it GPT or DOS label. 11 partitions is a lot for DOS label! [15:09] no idea whatsoever . [15:09] This is why I prefer LVM. you can reuse and change space usage at will, whereas with partitions they're fixed and restrict flexibility [15:10] i can change space usage .... [15:10] i can edit them [15:10] it says edit existing partition.... [15:10] do "sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda! and see what it reports on the "Disklabel:" line [15:11] TJ-: isn't that a command to format disk ? [15:11] :| [15:12] what!? [15:12] no of course not [15:12] fdisk [15:12] oh [15:12] ok [15:12] formatting uses mkfs.... [15:12] ok [15:12] sda! ? [15:12] fdisk is the partition table manipulator. "-l" is --list [15:13] Disk /dev/sda1: 10.17 GiB, 10925000192 bytes, 21337891 sectors [15:13] Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes [15:13] Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes [15:13] I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes [15:13] should i take a pic again TJ- ? [15:14] nope [15:14] there are actually 8 partitions and swap extra [15:15] does it not report the Disklabel type, after the I/O size line? [15:15] here I see for example "Disklabel type: gpt" [15:15] thats the only output i got [15:15] sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda1 [15:15] is that in the installer's terminal? [15:15] yes [15:15] live cd [15:15] I did this on 20.04 here, so it'll be the same fdisk [15:15] qterminal [15:16] is that sda1 or sda! [15:16] i thought it was typo [15:16] if I check another device, it shows "Disklabel type: dos" [15:16] I don't do command typos! [15:16] ok [15:16] well I do, but I correct them :D [15:17] ok wait then [15:17] I make it so you can copy/paste the commands [15:17] lubuntu@lubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda! [15:17] fdisk: cannot open /dev/sda!: No such file or directory [15:17] well that makes sense, there is no sda! [15:17] do "sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda" and see what it reports on the "Disklabel:" line [15:18] ok when i got that error i thought it must be sda1 . lol [15:18] hheehehe wsee I do correct the typos eventuallu :D [15:18] Sorry! :P [15:18] My eyes are shot been at it for 10 hours [15:18] ook got something [15:18] long [15:19] just the Disklabel line [15:19] its dos [15:19] good, as we thought [15:19] so, your problem is the installer will only boot in UEFI mode, but the current disk is configured only for BIOS/MBR boot mode and the PC won't boot the installer in that mode! [15:19] 8 partitions with 8GB as SWAP [15:20] which reminds me; should we not put back that backup mbr from the USB!? [15:20] ah yes [15:20] we backed it up [15:20] :D [15:22] should i cancel this ? [15:22] it would be good if we could get that diag MBR to show up... my bet is, if you can fix the BIOS boot mode the ISO would boot correctly (if we put the original sector back!) [15:23] I've tested the ISO here in a virtual machine and it boots correctly in both modes [15:23] don't know why other distros didn't have trouble in booting and this one only does :| [15:23] funny thing is that i have lubuntu installed in sda10 already. older version [15:24] have you tried another ubuntu image, not just lubuntu? it may be something common to all the recent installer images [15:24] well antix and bodhi. both worked fine while installing. no issues [15:24] can't you just do-release-upgrade in that lubuntu install? [15:24] even ubuntu mate [15:24] was installed before a week back [15:25] TJ-: i wanted lubuntu to be installed in sda1. [15:26] lubuntu was a trial installation . which is why it is installed at sda10 now [15:28] TJ-: ofcourse i can do-release-upgrade but then what baffles me is why only lubuntu is not working when even ubuntu mate worked seamlessly while installing [15:29] TJ-: anyways i will boot into bodhi right now . we did a backup . [15:29] OK [15:31] TJ-: :) [15:31] back [15:32] TJ-: i have put the pendrive now [15:32] OK, have you thought to test the USb does boot via a virtual machine? [15:32] i run with 4Gb ram [15:32] that's more than enough [15:32] and its an old pc . 2010 [15:33] the usb does boot. [15:33] just not for lubuntu [15:33] :| [15:33] pfft [15:34] that's no problem the CPU will support hardware acceleration. you can test that with "journalctl -k | grep kvm" [15:34] well that's what I mean - with a VM you can check there is no corruption [15:34] journalctl -k | grep kvm [15:35] you should see some lines of the form "kernel: kvm: Nested Virtualization enabled" [15:35] possibly different wording [15:35] Aug 15 21:00:33 murlidhar-desktop kernel: kvm: disabled by bios [15:36] ahh, so not enabled in the BIOS setup. That is often the default on Intel CPUs for some reason, whereas AMD alsways has it enabled by default [15:37] ok [15:37] i will enable it then. i will work around it . no issues [15:37] brb [15:46] TJ-: [15:47] is it IGD DVMT ? [15:47] errrm... don't think so. VT-X or something [15:47] I think IGD is Intel Graphic Device [15:47] bleh [15:48]