[00:48] <nightstrike> Is it possible with 21.04 to get rid of snaps entirely while still using other applications?  For instance, I read that trying to install chromium with apt forces the use of snap
[00:50] <Bashing-om> nightstrike: While one may remove snap - there are those apps that are only (couch - chromium) that are only available in the snap format. // I run slimjet as my alternative to chromium.
[00:52] <alzgh> you could also add 3rd party repos
[00:52] <tomreyn> there are a couple, including some providing chromium builds
[00:55] <oerheks> ppa:xtradeb/apps extra deb packaging .. not that i use it.
[00:56] <oerheks> yt downloader updated is nice
[00:57] <nightstrike> I see
[00:57] <nightstrike> are snaps here to stay for the forseeable future?
[00:57] <nightstrike> and, can I at least use gnome with snap?
[00:57] <oerheks> they certainly give developers a cure to headaches
[00:58] <oerheks> some want you to have the latest patched version.. but no. silly users want full control.
[00:59] <oerheks> if you know what you are doing, it is fine, but ubuntu wants to guarantee an user experience.
[00:59] <nightstrike> without*
[01:00] <nightstrike> I don't really want someone else deciding what's right for me, personally
[01:00] <oerheks> i like snapt for the controlled hooks, limitited to home folder, devices and such
[01:00] <oerheks> do that with debs..
[01:00] <nightstrike> if I wanted someone else to control how I used my computer, I'd use windows 10
[01:00] <alzgh> if they only had implemented snaps less messy towards other residents of linux
[01:01] <alzgh> ls /dev/ with a bunch of containers mounted just looks shit
[01:01] <oerheks> snaps on corporate level..
[01:01] <alzgh> make another folder for snaps
[01:02] <alzgh> I want my devices
[01:02] <oerheks> interesting.. the other folders of your linux system look fine?
[01:02] <nightstrike> yeah, typing "mount" used to be a useful tool.  cgroups made it bad. Snaps make it worse.
[01:03] <oerheks> go for flatpak then?
[01:03] <nightstrike> is that an option on ubuntu?
[01:03] <toddc> I am liking snaps they fix a lot of issues with dependencies and seem to just work
[01:03] <oerheks> certainly, but not installed standard
[01:03] <nightstrike> toddc: have you ever had a problem with just "apt install X"?
[01:04] <oerheks> chromium is a nice example; it is horrible to maintain..
[01:04] <nightstrike> I'm fairly new to this side of the house, but on the RH side, "yum install X" generally always just works, too
[01:04] <toddc> yes
[01:04] <nightstrike> oerheks: so I can still keep gnome, and use flatpak, and not have to have forced updates on my virtual machine?
[01:05] <tomreyn> nightstrike: you can choose to purge snapd, and prevent installing packages which will return it.
[01:06] <oerheks> nope, 21.04 does not have that kernel update livepatch, so you are free
[01:06] <oerheks> *to disable snapd and such
[01:06] <oerheks> livepatch is lts only, afaik
[01:10] <nightstrike> tomreyn: I know how to disable it, but what I don't know, and what I'm probably not communicating clearly, is how to deal with software that I want that is currently available as a snap. For chrome, I'll just switch to firefox, that's easy.  For Gnome, oerheks mentioned flatpak, but I haven't found a guide yet on it
[01:11] <tomreyn> nightstrike: is gnome installed as a snap in your ubuntu release? i kind of doubt that. what are you running?
[01:12] <tomreyn> as some of us mentioned, other chrome build exist from 3rd party apt repositories, so no need to switch your preferred browser.
[01:12] <tomreyn> you can introduce flatpak as a third way of managing packages, if you need to
[01:13] <toddc> nightstrike: I use a lot of LXC/LXD containers on my servers. snap are just that easy prebuilt work on any platform easy to move or migrate update
[01:13] <tomreyn> but those are all seperate topics, for all i can tell
[01:14] <nightstrike> tomreyn: yes. 21.04
[01:14] <tomreyn> "how to deal with software that I want that is currently available as a snap" -> if you don't want that installed as snaps, then install it some other way.
[01:14] <nightstrike> snap list shows "gnome-3-34-1804    0+git.3556cb3       72     latest/stable/…  canonical✓  "
[01:14] <tomreyn> that's backward compatibility libs
[01:14] <nightstrike> ah, so I can remove that?
[01:15] <tomreyn> i think so. you can remove it on 20.04 LTS and on 18.04 LTS
[01:15] <nightstrike> I also have "gtk-common-themes  0.1-52-gb92ac40     1515   latest/stable/…  canonical✓  -"
[01:15] <nightstrike> everything else in the list is just snap itself
[01:16] <tomreyn> just give it a try, purge it all, reboot, see whether gnome works. i think you'll be fine.
[01:17] <nightstrike> ok, ty
[01:18] <oerheks> chrome is not a snap, chromium us
[01:18] <nightstrike> it's a vm, so I can just roll back
[01:18] <oerheks> c/is
[01:40] <alkisg> nightstrike: the other desktop environments have less snaps than gnome; you might want to switch to e.g. kde, mate or xfce if you like ubuntu but don't like snaps
[01:40] <alkisg> E.g. on mate I start with `apt purge snapd`, and I only lose the software boutique and mate-welcome
[01:40] <alzgh> yeah, that's what I may do. I've install Gnome first but then added plasma and are on plasma mostly.
[01:40] <alkisg> While I think that on kubuntu, `snap list` is actually empty after installation
[01:40] <alzgh> clean plasma or xfce install maybe.
[01:41] <alzgh> gnome installs bunch of snaps
[01:45] <alkisg> oerheks: "chrome is not a snap" => afaik ubuntu refused to import the chrome package from debian; has anything changed since I last looked? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium/+bug/1855594
[01:46] <Bashing-om> alzgh: "sysop@2004x-c:~$ snap list >> No snaps are installed yet. Try 'snap install hello-world' " where I am on xfce :D
[01:46] <tomreyn> alkisg: google chrome is the proprietary software, chromium refers to its open source code
[01:47] <alkisg> tomreyn: ah, he meant the proprietary one, got it, ty
[01:48] <tomreyn> yes, i would think so
[03:47] <nightstrike> no, I meant chromium
[03:47] <nightstrike> but much like that bug report, when packagers force a snap, my response is "use a different package", be it firefox or proprietary google chrome
[04:33] <nightstrike> back on the topic of snap... just curious...  if the idea of a snap is that all the deps are included in its container, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a shared library, and further increase the amount of duplicate libraries you have on disk/
[04:34] <toddc> yes
[04:34] <toddc> but you do not have to use snaps at all
[04:34] <nightstrike> right, I just finished removing them entirely
[04:35] <nightstrike> just curious, is all
[04:35] <nightstrike> I hope that ubuntu backs off from them
[04:37] <toddc> nightstrike: normally disk space is not a big issue and it solves issues of different versions of dependencies IE PHP each can use its own version
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> nightstrike: if you dont like them, sudo apt purge snapd, the users choice
[04:46] <pasta_paul> testing
[04:55] <Swift110-mobile> hey all
[04:57] <matsaman> heyo
[04:57] <toddc> Swift110-mobile: welcome
[04:58] <Swift110-mobile>  thanks toddc
[04:58] <Swift110-mobile> ah matsaman u here too lol
[05:00] <nightstrike> lotuspsychje: right, I already finished removing them entirely
[05:07] <matsaman> Swift110-mobile: everywhere =P
[05:34] <alkisg> nightstrike: canonical has invested a lot of money in developing snaps; I doubt they'll back off soon; I just hope that they won't try to enforce snaps more, to people that prefer plain old .debs
[06:34] <webchat95> hello I am looking for help starting off on ubuntu and encrypting a partition with luks. Can I get help here?
[06:36] <mechanic> webchat95 yes :)
[06:45] <webchat95> is there a gui method other than kde partition manager to create luks encrypted partitions on ubuntu 20.04?
[06:45] <webchat95> kde partition manager does not seem to work with this version of ubuntu
[06:46] <webchat95> I can use a terminal, but am very cautious against using sgdisk since I've never used it before and do not want to delete other partitions
[06:47] <mechanic> webchat95 so you want to format a partition for luks?
[06:48] <webchat95> mechanic yes I do. I have an unallocated partition I want to use to install ubuntu 20.04
[06:49] <webchat95> I am dual booting windows and ubuntu. Windows 10 is already on the one partition. Want to install a luks encrypted ubuntu partition next
[06:49] <mechanic> sudo cryptsetup luksFormat /dev/sdxY
[06:50] <mechanic> if you want to format
[06:50] <mechanic> as you would need to
[06:54] <webchat95> rn I'm running ubuntu from a usb and have not allocated partition. For next step then I create 2 partitions for data and swap and encrypt them both with cryptsetup and then use the install ubuntu on the desktop?
[06:55] <webchat95> apologies if any of this is unclear
[07:05] <mechanic> webchat95 no idea about swap, but yes you can just luksFormat, open them afterwards and then install ubuntu. But wouldnt it be better to just use the ubuntu installer for that? (it can just use the rest of the free space) or you can manually tell it, where to install what with what encryption etc
[07:06] <webchat95> can I use ubuntu installer and afterwards use luks for everything?
[07:06] <webchat95> I read luks only works before installation
[07:08] <mechanic> webchat95 the installer can encrypt the install for you
[07:08] <webchat95> oh I must have missed this option the first time! I will do this then. thanks!
[07:09]  * enyc meows
[07:10] <enyc> webchat95: these days separate swap partition is not normally used (but no reason you can't have)
[07:10] <enyc> zram and a ''swapfile'' seems to be more normal,  not sure if ubuntu defaults to enabling the former yet
[07:12] <webchat95> I'm not seeing an option in the ubuntu installer to encrypt things with luks
[07:14] <webchat95> mechanic I see the install alongside windows and something else options. the something else option does not offer luks as a format
[07:14] <mechanic> alongside should give you an option for encryption (probably on the next page?)
[07:20] <webchat95> mechanic it does not seem to be offering encryption
[07:24] <webchat95> I tried this option for a test install yesterday and it did not seem to offer luks then either
[07:28] <webchat95> just checked online. This only works with erase disk
[07:36] <mechanic> ugh, okay that's weird :/
[09:11] <tcz> How do I find out what packages are going to be installed from iso file?
[09:12] <alkisg> You could chroot into it and run `dpkg -l`
[09:12] <alkisg> But in general, you'd see the iso seeds
[09:13] <tcz> so loop mount. where do I find seed files?
[09:14] <tcz> this is before I've booted into it. I've only downloaded it so far.
[09:14] <tcz> Thank you for the reply, btw.
[09:15] <alkisg> Yes, loop mount. The seeds are in launchpad, e.g. https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu-mate.focal/desktop
[09:15] <alkisg> You don't need to boot it to loop mount/chroot into it
[09:16] <tcz> Awesome. Thanks
[09:43] <parmod> how to crack gmail password
[10:07] <pan_> aaa  aaaaaaad
[10:08] <lotuspsychje> pan_: can we help you with something?
[10:26] <colin_> hi
[11:08] <vlm> When mark a program on hold using apt to not update that program, does that also imply holding that programs dependencies aswell?
[11:11] <vlm> Using apt-mark that is
[11:11] <rud0lf> no clue but i'd say it's logical
[11:12] <vlm> Would think so too
[11:50] <tomreyn> vlm: that depends on how the dependency is filed. if it says "i depend on the very version n.n.n of library x", then said dependency will remain installed. if it says "i depend on version n.n.n *or newer* of library x", then said dependency may be updated/upgraded. less strictly dependended-on packaged (recommends, suggests) could even be removed (uninstalled).
[11:51] <GuiToris> hello, does anyone know how the audio source can be specified in mpv?
[11:55] <tomreyn> GuiToris: i don't knowmyself, but its man page seems to explain. are you into man pages, yet?
[11:55] <tomreyn> !man | GuiToris
[11:56] <tomreyn> the latest man page (for "impish" / Ubuntu 21.04) is also available online at http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/impish/en/man1/mpv.1.html
[11:57] <tomreyn> The "PROTOCOLS" section explains how you can access sources. The general usage of the MPV command (i.e. how to specify the source when running mpv) is given in the "SYNOPSIS" section on the top of the page.
[11:58] <zteam> Hi
[11:59] <coconut> hey zteam
[12:04] <zteam> So I have been having a very weird issue where my luks-encrypted harddrive with EXT4 randomly fails to mount... Today I did decide to investigate things further, so I booted up my system from a live-usb running Ubuntu 21.04, it refuses to mount everytime complaining about bad superblock, booting up Ubuntu 18.04 however the drive mounts correctly everytime, and there is no complains about any bad superblock either
[12:08] <zteam> I have tested this multiple times (around 10 times now),I did try running fsck to correct the filesystem and it confirmed the issues and gave up (then my installed Ubuntu 21.04 refuesed to mount), I also tried running fsck then drive mounted as expected and it found no complains at all, running TestDisk on the drive it found nothing wrong with the partition table...
[12:09] <zteam> I just feel clueless here :-/
[12:11] <zteam> @TJ- any ideas man? :-)
[12:12] <zteam> TJ-, any ideas ?
[12:15] <tomreyn> zteam: check the drive health with smartctl
[12:16] <tomreyn> !smart | zteam
[12:17] <webchat73> Hello
[12:17] <tomreyn> zteam: also post the full command you run and the output of an fsck which fails.
[12:18] <tomreyn> (to a pastebin)
[12:18] <tomreyn> hi webchat73
[12:18] <webchat73> I'm installing kubuntu on my pc right now from live usb and i want to ask some questions please
[12:19] <webchat73> I'm at (disk setup) process
[12:19] <webchat73> There's 4 options :
[12:19] <tomreyn> zteam: finally, post   dumpe2fs -b    from the system which reports bad superblock and the system which does not
[12:19] <webchat73> Guided - use entire disk
[12:19] <zteam> tomreyn, done (althought by Gnome-disk it doesn't list any complains (long self-test passed too)
[12:19] <tomreyn> zteam: actually   dumpe2fs -h
[12:20] <webchat73> Guided - use entire disk and set up lvm
[12:20] <webchat73> Guided - use entire fisk and set up encrypted lvm
[12:20] <webchat73> And manual
[12:21] <webchat73> There's bars showing before and after statues of the partitions after.installing kubuntu
[12:21] <tomreyn> zteam: feel free to share the smartctl output as well (pastebin).
[12:22] <tomreyn> webchat73: soooo - what's your question?
[12:22] <webchat73> I want to use encryption.. full desk encryption...
[12:22] <webchat73> Will my files be lost after ???
[12:22] <webchat73> I have 4 partitions
[12:22] <webchat73> But 1 disk
[12:23] <tomreyn> webchat73: so this is roughly the screen you're looking at, right? https://i.stack.imgur.com/7pdlr.png
[12:24] <webchat73> Before bar: shows 4 partitions with different colors
[12:24] <webchat73> Yes all (ntfs) instead of unknown
[12:24] <webchat73> But different colors instead of only orange
[12:25] <tomreyn> webchat73: so you've got muliple partitions on this disk you want to install to already. and you'd like to use full disk encryption. i *assume* that full disk encrpytion will destroy all data on the disk (I do not know this for sure).
[12:26] <tomreyn> generally. when installing any OS on a disk which has existing data on it, you should ensure that that data is fully backed up.
[12:26] <TJ-> tomreyn: webchat73  Yes, the FDE options all will as it says "use entire disk"
[12:27] <webchat73> The disk is 500 Gb but i don't have means to back it up
[12:27] <zteam> tomreyn, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mNzHVSpTfH/
[12:27] <webchat73> I thought it could only erase the C: partition
[12:27] <tomreyn> webchat73: maybe you don't need to backup the entire partition, but just the data that's relevant to you, maybe that's less than 500 GB?
[12:28] <tomreyn> if you don't have local storage you can create a backup on, maybe you can backup to the cloud?
[12:28] <webchat73> Around 300 GB
[12:28] <webchat73> Manual won't erase my files?
[12:28] <tomreyn> (or you could acquire storage for this purpose)
[12:29] <tomreyn> probably not, but no guaratees are given. see my general statement above.
[12:29] <TJ-> webchat73: first things first; is there free space in the existing NTFSs that you can reclaim to make space for Ubuntu ?
[12:29] <webchat73> I want to show u
[12:30] <webchat73> How upload screenshot
[12:30] <cbreak> I'd recommend getting a separate ssd or disk, if you can manage that.
[12:30] <tomreyn> you can take a screenshot (or digital photo) and upload it to imgur.com
[12:30] <cbreak> or partition your existing disk from the start
[12:31] <TJ-> webchat73: generally, the method is to use Windows Disk Management to shrink NTFS(s) (and their parent partition(s)) prior to starting the Ubuntu installer. At that point the installer will see free space it can use
[12:31] <tomreyn> you won't be able to do a full disk encrypted installation that way either, though
[12:31] <zteam> tomreyn, so....  dumpe2fs -h /dev/dm-0 (it's mysterious device)
[12:32] <tomreyn> zteam: that's probably the encrypted device, isn't it?
[12:33] <zteam> tomreyn, correct :-)
[12:33] <tomreyn> well that won't have a readable file systemon it
[12:33] <tomreyn> no surprise there
[12:33] <TJ-> zteam: what does "sudo file -s /dev/dm-0" report ?
[12:34] <TJ-> (if it's device-mapper it's likely an LVM PV )
[12:34] <tomreyn> actually that should be the luks opened device, i am still waking up
[12:34] <TJ-> right, with LVM inside
[12:35] <tomreyn> possibly, yes
[12:35] <webchat30> Hi it's me
[12:35] <webchat30> https://imgur.com/a/xpteBfC
[12:35] <webchat30> This is screenshot
[12:36] <tomreyn> webchat30: okay, this shows that the full disk would be used for kubuntu if you were to use the "Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM" option.
[12:36] <tomreyn> by means of the colored bars on the bottom
[12:37] <webchat30> I want kubuntu to be installed on the windows 10 partition only
[12:37] <webchat30> And encrypt the rest
[12:38] <webchat30> So i don't lose personal files
[12:38] <tomreyn> webchat30: the kubuntu installer can only encrypt the full disk or nothing at all.
[12:38] <webchat30> I can do same encryption manually later?
[12:39] <tomreyn> not easily
[12:39] <zteam> tomreyn, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SRVtxXvYyd/
[12:39] <tomreyn> it would be a complex, difficult, process, requiring a higher level of experience
[12:40] <tomreyn> full disk encrpytion is best done during installation
[12:40] <tomreyn> zteam: that's from which system?
[12:41] <webchat30> Ok..
[12:41] <webchat30> So full disk encryption will make my partition into one partition... But will it erase alllllll?
[12:42] <tomreyn> full disk encryption will encrypt the full disk, i.e. it will erase anything that's on the disk.
[12:42] <webchat30> Ok thank you
[12:42] <webchat30> Thank God i asked
[12:43] <tomreyn> see the "After" line on the bottom
[12:43] <tomreyn> it depict what you would get, Kubuntu spanning the entire disk
[12:43] <tomreyn> where there were multiple partitions (with data) previously
[12:44] <webchat30> But wait a second.. so everytime  i want to install a new version or distro for example with FDE.. it will erase my disk?
[12:44] <TJ-> in plain terms, it would wipe out all Windows data
[12:44] <tomreyn> so all of the three installation options that are "Guided" would destroy any data you have
[12:45] <webchat30> Guided is dangerous
[12:45] <webchat30> I will go with manual
[12:46] <zteam> TJ-, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YWbKSSh9Q5/
[12:46] <tomreyn> webchat30: well, "manual" is also dangerous, if by "dangerous" you mean that you could delete the existing data. you *can* also do that with 'manual'
[12:46] <zteam> tomreyn, the one which refueses to mount the the filesystem
[12:47] <tomreyn> webchat30: and manual will not even offer full disk encryption.
[12:47] <TJ-> zteam: so that's the LV (Logical Volume) with the problem file-system?
[12:48] <webchat30> Tomreyn:  yes but i will ar least selecet where kubuntu will be installed right? All i have to do is choose the right partition to be wiped? Right?
[12:49] <tomreyn> webchat30: yes, this should usually work, if you do it right. but do make note my earlier general statement: <tomreyn> generally. when installing any OS on a disk which has existing data on it, you should ensure that that data is fully backed up.
[12:49] <TJ-> webchat30: are you going to delete one of the Windows NTFS partitions and all its data?
[12:50] <webchat30> Yes
[12:50] <webchat30> The blue partition
[12:50] <webchat30> That has windows
[12:51] <webchat30> Tomreyn: ok thank you... I think i should do it anyway with very caution :(
[12:51] <coconut> webchat30, you want to dualboot or only re-use existing personal files from the ntfs partition?
[12:52] <webchat30> Coconut: use existing personal files from the NTFS part
[12:52] <zteam> TJ-, I'm not very sure these even contains any LVM (I encrypted these drives long time ago with Gnome-disk (not the partition wizzard you use during install)
[12:53] <webchat30> Please answer this ( if i choose to move data on external hard disk):.      .. ... ... .. so everytime  i want to install a new version or distro for example with FDE.. it will erase my disk?
[12:53] <tomreyn> zteam: let's see the error message you get when trying to mount /dev/dm-0 then.
[12:54] <TJ-> zteam: it's LVM - "sudo dmsetup info /dev/dm-0"
[12:54] <TJ-> zteam: if not, you've got the ext4 directly inside the LUKS container, which is unusual
[12:55] <TJ-> it's obviously a device-mapper node
[12:55] <coconut> webchat30, i would so the partitioning in two phases, first creating ubuntu on / and home on /home, then boot and copying files to the home. After that you could run the intaller again to get rid of the ntfs partition and make your /home partition bigger to the boundaries of the disk.(can be dangerous of you do not backup before!)
[12:56] <coconut> *do
[12:56] <zteam> TJ-, I'm not so sure about that, but here is the output anyway https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6v5nb4n6Xb/
[12:57] <TJ-> webchat30: if you redo the encryption then of course you'll wipe everything. But once encryption is in place it can be re-used as long as the to-be-installed distro installer supports it
[12:57] <TJ-> zteam: that shows it is a LUKS v1 container, so no LVM
[12:58] <zteam> TJ-, which means it resides on an LVM (I had a memory about Gnome-disk listing the the LVM but that seems to be wrong)
[12:58] <webchat30> Coconut: so first do notmal install then move all data to one partition?
[12:59] <zteam> TJ-, yeah exactly :-)
[12:59] <webchat30> Tj-: what if i did ( manual) on the other distro? The encryption from previous installer will still exist?
[12:59] <TJ-> zteam: no, no LVM there. The clue is that the LUKS is dm-0 so there's nothing else device-mapper before it. See "lsblk"
[13:00] <TJ-> webchat30: depends on how you do it, but in the typical configuration of encryption > LVM then to install another distro only requires space in the LVM VG for additional LVs (Logical Volumes) to install the other distro to
[13:01] <webchat30> Okay
[13:01] <webchat30> Thnk you so much everyone
[13:01] <webchat30> For your help
[13:01] <webchat30> And I'm sorry i might be stupid with these questions
[13:01] <coconut> webchat30, first thing is to create an ext4 partition for /, and one ext4 for /home(you would need enough free disk space inside one of the ntfs partitions to get started with that). After that you can copy files and re-use the old ntfs space for you /home parition.
[13:02] <tomreyn> webchat30: ubuntu installers won't be able to re-use existing encrpyted storage. i assume this is the same for most other linux diustros.
[13:02] <zteam> tomreyn, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/sfyWXwbkhq/
[13:03] <coconut> webchat30, nothing has to do with stupid with this... it is just not the easiest thing to do.
[13:03] <tomreyn> webchat30: (you can manually intervene to make it possible to still do so, but this, too, weould require a good general understanding of the different layers and the intallation process in general)
[13:04] <zteam> webchat30, there is nothing stupid about asking questions, without asking questions just harder to learn ;-)
[13:04] <TJ-> zteam: what OS/release are you using to try to mount that file-system?
[13:04] <tomreyn> webchat30: you're welcome, and yes, not stupid at all - this is not easy for anyone the first time around, and the next time, too.
[13:06] <zteam> TJ-, Ubuntu 21.04 (works great to mount in Ubuntu 18.04), and it worked randomly with 21.04, now it doesn't seem Ubuntu 21.04 always fails to mount the drive
[13:06] <TJ-> zteam: has the file-system been moved from another device (is it a cloned device) ?
[13:07] <tomreyn> zteam: can you also show the output of    sudo file -s /dev/mapper/luks-c845bd3f-1d60-47d8-b90d-dd1e95ec58d7
[13:08] <zteam> TJ-, no :-)
[13:08] <TJ-> zteam: have you resized the partitions on the device containing that file-system?
[13:09] <webchat8> Hiiii I'm so sorry ...... I don't know what to do with this
[13:10] <webchat8> I went with manual
[13:10] <webchat8> https://imgur.com/a/3mw41zW
[13:10] <zteam> tomreyn, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/k4nxbxyXwR/
[13:10] <pasiz> hard to say what you are doing
[13:10] <Aavar> What do I need to install (or do) to get tab completion with systemctl (in lxc)?
[13:11] <tomreyn> Aavar: sudo apt install bash-completion
[13:11] <tomreyn> zteam: and for dm-0 that gives?
[13:11] <Ali-Karam> hello again .. https://termbin.com/9bam am I missing anything? it worked fine but there was lots of warnings and a couple of errors
[13:12] <tomreyn> Ali-Karam: we only support ubuntu on this channel
[13:12] <tomreyn> try #linux
[13:12] <Ali-Karam> okay
[13:12] <zteam> TJ-, nope (not recently anyway, maybe several years ago), I also think it was converted from ext3, but I'm not sure if it was that Disk or not (but none of this is done recently anyway)
[13:12] <Ali-Karam> thanks
[13:13] <Aavar> tomreyn: THank you, but that did not help unfortunately. Even after a reboot of the container.
[13:13] <webchat8> Can i pm someone for help please
[13:13] <webchat8> Through installer
[13:14] <tomreyn> webchat8: please ask your questions here on the channel. there's also #kubuntu which is less busy
[13:14] <zteam> tomreyn, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Z23Rk443ts/
[13:15] <TJ-> zteam: I was considering if the container of the file-system had shrunk and therefore the file-system was having some of its data (most likely at the very end) over-written
[13:15] <webchat8> Ok Here it lists all my partitions and I'm not sure what to do : https://imgur.com/a/3mw41zW
[13:16] <webchat8> When i click change on something there's so mny formats and options
[13:16] <zteam> tomreyn, TJ- also note that Ubuntu 18.04 seems as happy as ever to mount the volume (I tried this over 10 times, it works as expected every single time)
[13:18] <tomreyn> zteam: i noticed that running the same file command against ext4 file systems i have on a 18.04 system also reports "(64bit)" (as a file system feature), but yours does not. i'm not sure whether or not that's a red herring, though.
[13:19] <webchat8> I never noticed the sda2 partition on windows before.. and it shows 553 mb used..
[13:20] <webchat8> Wht boot loader device should i use?
[13:21] <TJ-> zteam: are both architectures 64-bit?
[13:22] <zteam> I also been attempting to dig around with dmesg -wH (it list events as they happens) but the only thing I was able to find was that it complains about the superblock on 21.04 whereas Ubuntu 18.04 seems happy about it, I'm not really able to draw any conclusions from this
[13:22] <tomreyn> webchat8: /dev/sda should be fine if you have just this one disk installed.
[13:23] <ravage> You only have one device. SDA is fine
[13:23] <zteam> tomreyn, all pastes here is from Ubuntu 21.04 so far.
[13:24] <ravage> But it looks like you need to resize your windows partition. As the installer can't figure out how much is in use you may not be able to resize it
[13:24] <tomreyn> zteam: so, would you like to compare to the other system then?
[13:24] <zteam> TJ-, yes :-)
[13:24] <ravage> Usually there why Windows did not completely shut down and blocks Access
[13:24] <ravage> So you would need to go back to windows and do a complete shutdown
[13:25] <ravage> Maybe google how to do that. Was something like holding shift while pressing shutdown
[13:25] <zteam> tomreyn, I be happy to, just need to reboot first
[13:25] <tomreyn> ravage: webchat8 plans to replace the windows OS installation on sda1
[13:25] <TJ-> zteam: my feeling is some file-system flags are affecting this
[13:25] <ravage> Oh ok
[13:25] <webchat8> Ok, so if i want to clean the windows 10 and install kubuntu on the same partition..  mark it blue only? And click install now? Also is 74 GB enough for Kubuntu? Should i keep formats as ntfs?
[13:25] <ravage> 74gb will be ok for a normal installation yes
[13:26] <ravage> But you have way too many partitions. I would backup data and just do the installation on a clean drive. But it will work on the 74gb
[13:26] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:27] <zteam> TJ-, well, I tried to commeent out the the entries in /etc/fstab for /dev/dm-0 but it didn't do any difference
[13:27] <webchat8> I'm so confused and worried T-T
[13:27] <zteam> TJ-, tomreyn BRB, just need to reboot into 18.04
[13:27] <tomreyn> webchat8: if you want to destroy the windows installation to make room for Kubuntu, you should first of all click on the /dev/sda1 device, then click on "delete". this should provide "available space" which you can then select and use to "add" partitions for Kubuntu in.
[13:27] <ravage> Nothing to worry about with a backup
[13:27] <ravage> Never do anything without it
[13:28] <tomreyn> webchat8 has no backup. we previously recommended against continuing until backups are available.
[13:29] <ravage> As usual wise advice here :)
[13:30] <webchat8> Indeleted sd1
[13:31] <webchat8> It's now free space in gray
[13:31] <webchat8> When i click... It ask logical or primary?
[13:31] <webchat8> Beginning or end
[13:32] <ravage> create an ext4 partition and assign / as the mount point. primary partitiion at the beginning
[13:32] <Zteam> nad I'm back again
[13:32] <webchat8> Use as... And mount point
[13:32] <ravage> that should be all you need to stat the installation
[13:32] <ravage> *start
[13:33] <webchat8> Primary - beginning of this space - ext4 journaling file system - /
[13:33] <webchat8> Click ok?
[13:33] <ravage> zes
[13:33] <ravage> yes
[13:34] <tomreyn> TJ-: you had probably asked about resizing due to the mismatch of FS size and physical size at https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mNzHVSpTfH/ ?
[13:34] <tomreyn> TJ-: (this is output zteam had previously posted)
[13:35] <webchat8> I clicked ok... But now the free space gray.. turned bck to (blue windows 10 (ext4)
[13:35] <ravage> thats just the name
[13:35] <ravage> should be fine
[13:35] <webchat8> Click install?
[13:35] <ravage> yes
[13:36] <tomreyn> webchat8, ravage: this is missing /boot
[13:36] <ravage> you dont need /boot with ext4
[13:36] <tomreyn> uh no, ignore this
[13:36] <TJ-> tomreyn: I never saw that - that's the problem Zteam
[13:36] <webchat8> A warning came up
[13:37] <ravage> webchat8, maybe a little more detail?
[13:37] <webchat8> No efi system partion was found... This sistem will likely not be able to boot success ly and the installation process may fail
[13:37] <ravage> oh. do you know if you have EFI enabled in windows?
[13:38] <webchat8> I don't know what is efi
[13:38] <ravage> anyway we should just create one
[13:38] <TJ-> Zteam: so as I surmised; the LUKS container is 1060864 bytes smaller than the ext4 file-system it contains
[13:38] <webchat8> Go back?
[13:38] <ravage> yes
[13:38] <EriC^> webchat8: are you dual booting?
[13:38] <ravage> you need a EFI partition at the beginning of the drive. 100 megabyte or so is enough
[13:38] <tomreyn> webchat8 / ravage: there is no EFI system partition on this disk, even though there is a windows installation. we will need to assuem that windows was installed in bios mode, and that the kubuntu installer was boote din uefi mode
[13:39] <ravage> i think the partition type is called EFI? or boot?
[13:39] <webchat8> I'm not dual booting.. I'm on live usb and i want to delete windows and install kubuntu
[13:39] <EriC^> if he's dual booting and windows is using legacy, it would be better to just reboot the live usb in legacy mode
[13:39] <ravage> i dont remember the installer 100%
[13:39] <ravage> true
[13:39] <EriC^> ah ok webchat8, then create an efi partition, ~300mb close to the start of the disk
[13:40] <tomreyn> ravage: /boot would be something else, it would be called EFI or ESP by the installer, it would be a FAT32 / VFAT file system.
[13:40] <ravage> im not sure if he has enough primary partition sleft
[13:40] <ravage> with all his partitons already setup
[13:40] <webchat8> Could it be that 856 partition i. Don't know what it has on?
[13:40] <tomreyn> ravage: there's no need to make the ubuntu / a primary partiton
[13:40] <ravage> maybe the smartest way is to reboot and start withour EFI
[13:41] <Zteam> TJ-, I see
[13:41] <webchat8> Wht should i do now
[13:41] <EriC^> webchat8: are you making any custom partitioning? if not you could just go back and choose erase disk and install ubuntu
[13:41] <TJ-> Zteam: this should be solvable with "resize2fs /dev/dm-0"
[13:42] <tomreyn> ravage: your suggestion to create an ESP (on a primary partition) in addition to the Ubuntu / partition (which could be an extended partition) should actually work.
[13:42] <TJ-> Zteam: that should ensure the file-system is the same size as the container
[13:42] <Swift110-mobile> good morning folks
[13:42] <ravage> ok lets do that then, webchat8
[13:42] <ravage> remove the ext4 partition. create a 300M ESP partiton
[13:43] <webchat8> Ravage: please i don't want to wipe my data on other partions please note ok
[13:43] <coconut> EriC^, he wants to re-use personal files after installation
[13:43] <ravage> after that create the ext4 partition with mountpoint / again with the rest of the free space
[13:43] <EriC^> oh i see coconut
[13:43] <webchat8> Click Undo all changes?
[13:44] <ravage> webchat8, if you only delete the one you created it will not delete anything else. but as we all said before: no backup, no mercy
[13:44] <ravage> yes undo should be ok
[13:44] <Zteam> TJ-, tomreyn nice catch guys :D
[13:45] <webchat8> Ok it's back to the imgur screenshot again
[13:45] <webchat8> https://imgur.com/a/3mw41zW
[13:45] <ravage> ok. the delete the partion again
[13:45] <tomreyn> ravage: sorry, i missed one thing: i don't know whether (a) this mainboard / BIOS and (b) ubuntu can boot off a disk with dos partition table (i do not know whether this is what we have here), with an ESP on it. in fact, i don't think you can have an ESP on a dos partition table.
[13:46] <ravage> we will see :)
[13:46] <ravage> webchat8, create the ESP partition and then your system partition
[13:46] <tomreyn> hmm right thats an option
[13:46] <webchat8> Delete sda1?
[13:46] <Zteam> TJ-, so the way to compare this two is to use dmsetup and compare it with the output from fsck right?
[13:47] <tomreyn> Zteam: it's still unclear how this (file system larger than device) happened in the first place, though
[13:47] <tomreyn> Zteam: especially since you mentioned you had not reized or otherwise modified it
[13:48] <tomreyn> webchat8: yes, delete sda1
[13:48] <webchat8> Sda1 deleted
[13:48] <webchat8> Now it's free space
[13:49] <tomreyn> webchat8: click on "free space" that's there now. then click on "add", add primary partition of type "ESP"
[13:49] <tomreyn> if there is no "ESP", look for "EFI" instead
[13:49] <Zteam> tomreyn, I'm not sure, I might have been resizing it several years ago and forgotten about it, I know resized some partitions in the past, but I'm not sure whetever it was this drive or not
[13:49] <tomreyn> webchat8: size 300 MB
[13:50] <TJ-> Zteam: doesn't explain why 18.04 doesn't complain. Makes me wonder if it's due to the changes in cryptsetup between 18.04 and 21.04
[13:51] <webchat8> Primary * 300mb * beginning? * Efi system partition * mount point?
[13:52] <webchat8> Sorry no mount point
[13:52] <TJ-> Zteam: can you do this command in 18.04 and 21.04? "sudo cryptsetup luksDump /dev/XXX" where XXX is the block device containing the LUKS container?
[13:52] <tomreyn> webchat8: mount point should be set automatically or none
[13:52] <webchat8> None
[13:52] <tomreyn> webchat8: "beginning" is fine
[13:52] <Zteam> TJ-, yeah no idea, your knowledge greatly exceeds mine, so guess If I was confused or not when I found this :D
[13:52] <webchat8> Click ok
[13:52] <tomreyn> webchat8: right
[13:53] <webchat8> Now 5 partition
[13:53] <ravage> there should be some free space left now
[13:53] <webchat8> Efi 298 mb
[13:53] <ravage> create the system partition like last time
[13:53] <ravage> with ext4 and mount point /
[13:53] <TJ-> Zteam: makes me think the partitions may have changed size (that contain the LUKS!)
[13:53] <ravage> use all the space thats left
[13:53] <webchat8> Unusuable 74340 mb no type
[13:53] <tomreyn> webchat8: you should actuall yhave four partitions on sda now
[13:54] <tomreyn> ah crap that's because of the primary then
[13:54] <ravage> i had the feeling we run into that problem :)
[13:54] <tomreyn> ravage: i didn't ;-)
[13:55] <webchat8> I can't touch
[13:55] <tomreyn> webchat8: you should boot insto windows and convert the partition table to gpt type
[13:55] <webchat8> The unusable space
[13:55] <ravage> or we just do a legacy install
[13:55] <ravage> without EFI
[13:55] <tomreyn> that's the other option, requires a reboot, too
[13:55] <ravage> i dont remember the boot menu is there install and install bios on it?
[13:56] <ravage> i usually just disable EFI in my BIOS for that
[13:56] <ravage> so the installer has no other choice
[13:56] <tomreyn> ravage: no, you can't choose boot mode (legacy bios/uefi) on the OS
[13:56] <Zteam> TJ-, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SwJjtXrycQ/
[13:56] <tomreyn> the firmware decides
[13:57] <TJ-> ravage: tomreyn: webchat8: can you not use an extended partition there?
[13:57] <ravage> TJ-, can the EFI partition be on that?
[13:57] <tomreyn> TJ-: it says "unusable space", so i guess not
[13:57] <ravage> we can only create one more primary partition really now
[13:57] <webchat8> Windows 10 (ext4) 298.8mb - free space 74.3 gb - sda2 (ntfs) - sda3 - sda4
[13:57] <TJ-> tomreyn: that is usually because the extended is /before/ a primary
[13:58] <webchat8> Undo all changes?
[13:58] <ravage> yes undo sounds good
[13:58] <Zteam> tomreyn, there is no easy way to convert MBR to GPT without losing data in Windows (as far as I know)
[13:58] <tomreyn> webchat8: can we see a screenshot of what you have now?
[13:58] <webchat8> Ok wait
[13:59] <ravage> webchat8, do you know how to get into your BIOS and change some settings?
[13:59] <TJ-> ravage: hold one moment. What sector does partition #1 begin at? if it is greater than 34 AND you can shrink the last partition slighlty, you can slip in a GPT alongside the MBR, and create identical partitions in the GPT to match the current MBR, to create a hybrid/protective MBR on a GPT layout :)
[13:59] <ravage> TJ-, i only have his screenshot really :)
[13:59] <TJ-> ravage: GPT primary is sectors 1-33
[14:00] <TJ-> ravage: and you need the last 34 sectors of the disk free for the secondary GPT
[14:00] <tomreyn> Zteam: https://www.thewindowsclub.com/convert-mbr-to-gpt-disk
[14:00] <ravage> TJ-, https://imgur.com/a/3mw41zW thats all we know so far. and that Ubuntu wants to use EFI
[14:01] <ravage> so the best way in my opinion is to disable EFI. install all to sda1 in one partition.
[14:01] <tomreyn> TJ-: sda1 contains the windows OS installation, and can be destroyed.
[14:01] <webchat8> https://imgur.com/a/u3yrHtq
[14:02] <webchat8> Undo all changes?
[14:03] <ravage> webchat8, you can just reboot. it did not modify anything yet. do you know how to get into your BIOS?
[14:03] <tomreyn> to me, the only user compatible option here seems to be to boot the installer in bios mode and create just the single partition for / (replacing sda1)
[14:04] <Zteam> tomreyn, ... but you learn new stuff everyday, I had no idea that Microsoft was actually providing built-in tools for doing this without data loss
[14:04] <tomreyn> Zteam: and i don't know how well those work
[14:04] <webchat8> The only one thing appear with my usb on is kubuntu and check ram and other 2 options  i don't rememberi don't
[14:05] <webchat8> Undo everything and go back?
[14:05] <Zteam> tomreyn, no idea here either :D
[14:05] <ravage> webchat8, you need to disable EFI in your BIOS first
[14:06] <TJ-> tomreyn: thanks. ravage: webchat8 using command-line tools (fdisk) it is possible to change the partition ordering (not moving the actual data) so you can make 2 > 1, 3 > 2, 4> 3 and have 4 free to make the extended
[14:06] <tomreyn> webchat8: in cae you're wondering why all of this is so complicated: it's primarily so because you're trying to install a new OS to an existing disk with existing data on it, which needs to be retained.
[14:06] <ravage> TJ-, i think he does not have the experience to do that really. and he has no backup
[14:06] <tomreyn> *case
[14:07] <webchat8> Why it's not just as simple as installing the kubuntu on windows 10 partition after clean it
[14:07] <webchat8> :(
[14:08] <ravage> your partition layout just sucks
[14:08] <webchat8> Make the 300 mb efi at the end?
[14:08] <ravage> no
[14:08] <webchat8> Ok
[14:09] <webchat8> Turn off pc?
[14:09] <ravage> i already wrote 2 times what you have to do/check
[14:09] <TJ-> Have we gathered the /exact/ partition sector offsets? a BIOS/MBR install should be possible into sda1 with GRUB taking over sector 0 and using os-prober to dual-boot Windows
[14:09] <Zteam> TJ-, why not just use Gparted instead much more beginner friendly ? :-)
[14:10] <TJ-> Zteam: because Gparted moves the partition data, not just the 16 bytes that are the partition entry
[14:10] <tomreyn> TJ-: we have not gathered the /exact/ partition sector offsets. only GUI was used so far. webchat is new to Linux, I think.
[14:10] <webchat8> I clicked try kubuntu
[14:10] <TJ-> webchat8: can you start a terminal? press Ctrl+Alt+T
[14:10] <webchat8> Ok
[14:11] <webchat8> Terminal on
[14:11] <TJ-> webchat8: and does the installer have internet access right now?
[14:11] <webchat8> Yes connected
[14:11] <ravage> TJ-, im not really comfortable with letting him fiddle with his partitons. he made clear he has no backup but also needs the data. so i will not advice him to do anything the installer does not support by clicking
[14:11] <TJ-> webchat8: fantastic! do this "sudo apt install pastebinit"
[14:12] <webchat8> Installed
[14:12] <TJ-> ravage: blind clicking is more dangerous than knowing the underlying structure and working to it
[14:12] <Zteam> TJ-, Good point, totally missed that was the goal :P
[14:12] <ravage> TJ-, ok. i will let you guide him then
[14:12] <TJ-> webchat8: show us "pastebinit <( sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda; lsblk -f; )"
[14:13] <TJ-> ravage: don't worry - I wrote the boot process and FDE guides :)
[14:13] <ravage> TJ-, its not you im worried about here :P
[14:13] <tomreyn> ravage: it's good that you pointed this out. i'm also sure that TJ- is in the best position of (not just) the three of us to make this work
[14:14] <tomreyn> i see :)
[14:14] <TJ-> I fix these kind of issues in my sleep
[14:14] <Zteam> TJ-, just one last question, which commands where used to determine my luks container size to compare it against the psycial size of the ext4 partition?
[14:15] <tomreyn> oh that's why you're willing to spend hours on it.
[14:15] <webchat65> hi i'm on ubuntu live now
[14:15] <webchat65> i really apprreciate your help guys but i only need to install this Os without damaging my personal files
[14:16] <TJ-> webchat65: what were you on before!?
[14:16] <tomreyn> Zteam: we only looked at the fsck output you had posted
[14:16] <TJ-> Zteam: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mNzHVSpTfH/
[14:16] <webchat65> you TJ- and tomreyn and ravage
[14:16] <webchat65> bash: /dev/sda: Permission denied
[14:16] <webchat65> fdisk: cannot open -: No such file or directory
[14:16] <webchat65> NAME FSTYPE FSVER LABEL UUID                                 FSAVAIL FSUSE% MOUNTPOINT
[14:16] <webchat65> loop0
[14:16] <webchat65>      squash 4.0                                                    0   100% /rofs
[14:16] <webchat65> sda
[14:17] <tomreyn> !paste | webchat65
[14:17] <tomreyn> we have not gotten to see what you just pasted, you will need to post it to the pastebin again
[14:17] <tomreyn> webchat65: ^
[14:18] <tomreyn> Zteam: lines 4 and 5 specifically
[14:18] <webchat65> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Mdwpy2VsCZ/
[14:18] <tomreyn> Zteam: it reports that filesystem size > physical size
[14:19] <TJ-> webchat8: try again, you can copy/paste the commands inside the " " marks: show us " pastebinit <( sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda; lsblk -f; ) "
[14:20] <Zteam> TJ-, so just comparing psycial size against filesystem size then? (I thought that was supposed to be different, since the filesystem itself occupies some space... )
[14:20] <tomreyn> webchat65: to paste to the konsole window, you may need to press ctrl-shift-v
[14:20] <webchat65> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6Sq6NGQ7VD/
[14:21] <TJ-> Zteam: yes, but the file-system cannot be LARGER than the container it is in!
[14:22] <pycurious> gcc-11 and g++-11 - what apt can get me those?
[14:23] <tomreyn> pycurious: hi, which ubuntu release are you running there?    lsb_release -ds
[14:23] <TJ-> webchat65: it is possible to install in BIOS/MBR mode to that disk if partition #1 is replaced, but using the installer you will not be able to do encryption
[14:24] <Zteam> TJ-, well.... good point :D
[14:24] <webchat65> TJ- : i understand that i will go with the ( manual) option.. as the guided options will erase my data
[14:24]  * Zteam sigs at himtself :D
[14:25] <Nitrousoxide> what are you guy’s preferred pronunciation of Ubuntu?
[14:25] <webchat65> TJ- i think i will give up installer encryption for now, i may want to encrypt it manually later
[14:26] <lotuspsychje> !discuss | Nitrousoxide
[14:26] <Nitrousoxide> :|
[14:26] <Nitrousoxide> my bad
[14:27] <lotuspsychje> dont worry its an invite Nitrousoxide
[14:27] <TJ-> webchat65: do an LVM install into sda1 and do not assign all space to LVs initially
[14:27] <TJ-> webchat65: that will leave free space in the LVM volume group which you can later use to create a LUKs container, and then a new LVM VG inside that, and finally transfer your LVs into that!
[14:28] <Zteam> BRB
[14:28] <webchat65> TJ- how can i do that safely please
[14:28] <webchat65> TJ- i'm sorry i'm not familiar with all of this
[14:29] <TJ-> webchat65: with a lot of practice in a virtual machine first :)
[14:29] <TJ-> we could get Kubuntu installed into sda1 encrypted, using LUKSv1+LVM, but it'd have to be pre-configured manually
[14:30] <TJ-> webchat65: once the new disk layout was created the installer's manual mode can be used to choose the pre-configured devices correctly
[14:30] <webchat65> i can encrypt that partition and sintall kubuntu on it? without touching other partitions?
[14:31] <TJ-> webchat65: but it is a lot of steps and if you don't understand the implications it is safer not to. I do it routinely but I've been working with LUKS/LVM for 15 years
[14:31] <webchat65> i'll stick with "safer"
[14:31] <webchat65> i just stped into linux world
[14:31] <webchat65> lol
[14:32] <pycurious> tomreyn: Its docker ubuntu:latest will try to get lsb_release -a (its more than likely 20.04.x)
[14:32] <webchat65> TJ- ok what should i do now to install Kubuntu?
[14:33] <TJ-> webchat65: you'll still need to do some manual steps, because you first need to wipe sda1 and convert it to LVM and create LVs in the VG (logical volumes in the volume group)
[14:34] <webchat65> can you walk me through these steps please? TJ-
[14:35] <tomreyn> TJ-: if webchat65 just wants to replace the windows OS on sda1 by an unencrypted kubuntu installation this can be achieved by booting the installer in legacy mode, and installing to a single partition at sda1
[14:36] <TJ-> tomreyn: I was going to help get sda1 as LVM so it leaves flexibility for the future
[14:36] <tomreyn> ok :)
[14:36] <TJ-> if ext4 is written directly in sda1 its cast in stone
[14:38] <webchat65> what is this partition: /dev/sda2       145782784 147455999   1673216   817M 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE?
[14:39] <webchat65> i never saw it in windows
[14:39] <TJ-> webchat65: presumably the Windows Recovery image
[14:40] <webchat65> can we use it to solve the problem?
[14:40] <webchat65> i don't think i will need it
[14:41] <tomreyn> webchat65: do you actually know for sure that your windows data is not on what used to be C: ?
[14:41] <webchat65> so we will not touch the primary sda1 if dividing it makes problems
[14:41] <webchat65> tomreyn: i know for sure that my C: has windows installation files
[14:42] <tomreyn> webchat65: okay, but that's not what i asked
[14:42] <webchat65> tomreyn i'm sorry i don't understand your question
[14:43] <tomreyn> webchat65: if you look at https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6Sq6NGQ7VD/ on lines 10 to 13 and 17 to 20, you have three large NTFS partitions. i am wondering which of these actuallycontain the data that needs to be preserved.
[14:44] <webchat65> sda4 and sda3
[14:44] <tomreyn> webchat65: line 20 suggests that what we now know as sda4 is a partition created or managed by "Norton Ghost"?
[14:44] <tomreyn> okay, if you know this for sure, then please go on.
[14:45] <webchat65> yes i renamed the sda4 partition as `Ghost
[14:45] <webchat65> it has also important files
[14:45] <tomreyn> ok
[14:46] <webchat65> but i'm not sure sda2 , so TJ- said it has windows related items.. if so .. i don't really need them
[14:46] <webchat65> and C: should be sda1
[14:46] <webchat65> my personal files partitions are sda3 and sda4
[14:46] <tomreyn> right. you won't need sda2.
[14:47] <tomreyn> TJ-: sorry for interrupting there, if i did
[14:47] <webchat65> ok
[14:49] <webchat65> please what should i do
[14:50] <webchat65> i've been trying to install Kubuntu for like 3 hours now
[14:53] <tomreyn> webchat65: i think we discussed several options now, and we have repeatedly pointed out that the best option will be to make backups first of all.
[14:54] <webchat65> tomreyn i really got lost in the discussion there's a lot i don't understand....
[14:54] <tomreyn> webchat65: if you want to continue without a backup, you can wait for TJ- to return and guide you (if he can spend the time) or you can try by yourself, by booting to bios mode, and installing ubuntu using manual partitioning as we tried so far
[14:55] <webchat65> ok
[14:55] <webchat65> i appreciate your help, thank you so much for your time
[14:56] <webchat65> and the others too
[14:56] <tomreyn> webchat65: if sda2 can be removed, then you should be able to install in eufi mode (the way you were booting so far)
[14:56] <webchat65> ok tomreyn
[14:57] <pycurious> tomreyn: Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS - How do i get gcc-11 and g++-11 on this machine?
[14:59] <pycurious> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67298443/when-gcc-11-will-appear-in-ubuntu-repositories - is this the way to get gcc 11 on ubuntu 20.04?
[15:00] <tomreyn> webchat65: i think the only way you can make things work by yourself is to boot the installer into bios mode (something you need to set up on the bios setup screens or with the "boot override menu" the bios may provide). and then delete partition 1 (sda), and create a new ext4 parititon there, primary, covering the full space, starting at the beginning, and install the boot loader to /dev/sda
[15:01] <tomreyn> pycurious: ubuntu repositories oinly provide gcc-11 packages starting Ubuntu 21.04
[15:01] <TJ-> whoops, sorry, got lost reading something!
[15:02] <pycurious> tomreyn: so use hirsute ppa?
[15:03] <tomreyn> pycurious: what do you mean by "hirsute ppa"?
[15:03] <TJ-> pycurious: no, you'll need to install it in a container to avoid breaking the system
[15:04] <pycurious> TJ-: So stick with gcc 10 on ubuntu 20.04 lts?
[15:04] <TJ-> pycurious: "lxc launch ubuntu:21.04 my2104" "lxc exec my2104 bash" then you're in a root shell in the 21.04 container and can install as you like, use it to build (by bind-mounting your source-code into the container) and so forth
[15:05] <pycurious> TJ-: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67298443/when-gcc-11-will-appear-in-ubuntu-repositories - this looks ok?
[15:06] <TJ-> pycurious: NO! not at all, that is taken completely out of context
[15:06] <tomreyn> pycurious: doing what's suggested there is a recipe to break your system
[15:06] <TJ-> pycurious: that'd miz hirsute packages with focal and break things in nasty ways
[15:10] <tiepolo> !list
[15:12] <pycurious> TJ-: clang used to provide an alias for g++-11 - do you know anything about that?
[15:14] <TJ-> pycurious: no idea, are you sure you're not confusing that with C++ alias templates?
[15:15] <pycurious> TJ-: I think its just aliasing that it provides. I was wondering if a 20.04 lts clang install aliases g++-11 and gcc-11?
[15:16] <webchat65> sorry i was making a sandwich
[15:20] <TJ-> I'm not able to do it now webchat65 I've been on the go for 10 hours already
[15:21] <TJ-> but as tomreyn  recommended, you first need to reboot the installer in BIOS mode so it aligns with how the disk is currently configured
[15:23] <webchat65> TJ-: ok thank you anyway
[15:23] <webchat65> appreciate it
[15:25] <tomreyn> webchat65: i can offer to guide, for 30 minutes, through the 'easy' approach i duscussed above.
[15:28] <webchat65> tomreyn: ok
[15:28] <webchat65> please do
[15:29] <tomreyn> webchat65: so reboot, and bring up either the bios provided boot menu (if any) or the bios settings screen.
[15:29] <webchat65> ok i'll come here with mobile
[15:29] <webchat65> a second please
[15:30] <webchat8> Without the live usb right?
[15:30] <tomreyn> webchat8: with the live usb attached
[15:30] <tomreyn> have you checked that this system provides sufficient resources to run kubuntu 20.04?
[15:31] <webchat8> I think it does
[15:31] <tomreyn> ok
[15:31] <tomreyn> let me know when you're at either of these screens
[15:31] <webchat8> Bios is f2?
[15:32] <tomreyn> this depends on your computer
[15:32] <tomreyn> it's often f9 or f11 for the boot menu, and delete or f2 for the bios
[15:32] <webchat8> Ok I'm at toshiba set-up utility
[15:33] <tomreyn> there should be a 'tab' or some main menu option about "boot"
[15:33] <tomreyn> navigate there
[15:33] <webchat8> Boot order?
[15:33] <tomreyn> can you post a screen shot?
[15:34] <webchat8> There's also boot mode which is set to csm boot
[15:34] <tomreyn> boot mode needs to remain set to CSM
[15:34] <tomreyn> CSM stands for "compatibility support module" which means backward compatibility for classic BIOS booting.
[15:35] <tomreyn> we want to boot in classic bios mode off the attached USB stick
[15:35] <webchat8> https://imgur.com/a/r6P7cQX
[15:36] <tomreyn> oh, i was hoping you'd post the "boot order" screen
[15:36] <webchat8> Ok
[15:38] <webchat52> https://imgur.com/a/r6P7cQX
[15:39] <webchat52> Sorry it will disconnect sometimes when i upload screenshot
[15:39] <tomreyn> webchat52: thanks. while i'll look at it, can you tell what it says for "cpu type " and total memory size" on the "main" screen?
[15:39] <webchat52> Intel r core tm i3-4005u cpu
[15:40] <webchat52> 4096 ram
[15:40] <tomreyn> okay, now back to where you took the last screenshot, and press enter on "change boot order"
[15:40] <webchat52> Ok
[15:40] <tomreyn> this should bring up another screen, which we need another screen shot of (or you can type it, whatever you prefer)
[15:40] <webchat52> Usb / odd / hdd-ssd / lan
[15:41] <tomreyn> do you know which toshiba model this is?
[15:41] <webchat52> Satellite C55-B1055
[15:42] <tomreyn> okay, this should enable us to find its documentation, which should enbale us to understand which key to press during boot to bring up the boot override menu
[15:42] <webchat52> Ok
[15:43] <webchat52> Go back?
[15:43] <tomreyn> you can also just try to reboot and press different keys and see which will bring up the boot menu
[15:43] <ravage> (youtube says alt+f12 on bootup)
[15:44] <webchat52> Pressed f 12
[15:44] <webchat52> I'm on boot menu
[15:44] <ravage> please send a screenshot again :)
[15:45] <webchat52> Usb / odd/ hdd-ssd / lan
[15:45] <webchat52> Ok
[15:45] <webchat52> Second pls
[15:45] <tomreyn> hmm i wonder what is "odd"
[15:45] <ravage> your dvd drive
[15:45] <tomreyn> optical disk drive, right
[15:46] <webchat52> https://imgur.com/a/r6P7cQX
[15:47] <ravage> i dont see any indication about the boot mode here
[15:47] <webchat52> https://imgur.com/KEG957s
[15:47] <webchat52> I'm so sorry :(
[15:47] <webchat52> Copied wrong link
[15:47] <ravage> thats ok
[15:50] <ravage> can you go back to the BIOS and check what other options you have at "boot mode" ?
[15:50] <webchat52> Ik
[15:50] <ravage> where is currently shows CSM Boot
[15:51] <webchat52> Uefi boot
[15:51] <webchat52> And csm boot
[15:51] <ravage> ok. keep csm boot
[15:51] <ravage> can you go to Security
[15:51] <ravage> does it say anything about secure boot or UEFI?
[15:51] <webchat52> Bios password / hdd- sdd password
[15:51] <webchat52> No
[15:52] <tomreyn> hmm, thanks for taking over, ravage, i had a delivery incoming
[15:52] <ravage> im a little lost with this BIOS. from what i see it should not boot in UEFI boot
[15:52] <tomreyn> it doesn't seem easy  (possible?) to boot the USB in CSM mode, though
[15:52] <TJ-> ravage: it may prefer UEFI but fallback to CSM if UEFI isn't available
[15:53] <TJ-> you'd have to do it from the /manual/ boot selector menu, accessed at start-up via a bot-key
[15:53] <ravage> we did that
[15:53] <TJ-> in that case there should be options for the USb to boot in either mode
[15:53] <tomreyn> that'S what the latest screenshot shows
[15:53] <ravage> but it only shows the USB drive once with no indication of the boot mode
[15:54] <hans> how can i check where a specific apt package was installed from? which repository provided it?~
[15:54] <webchat52> If i keep and press nothing there's 4 options come in regarding kubuntu
[15:54] <webchat52> Test ram and other
[15:54] <ravage> webchat52: thats already too late in the boot process
[15:55] <TJ-> ahhh, I see the photos. OK, the easy way is to simply wipe out the EFI-SP entry in the GPT of the USB :)
[15:55] <tomreyn> hmm test ram? that should only be available on bios boot
[15:55] <ravage> ok. he should be able to do that from windows?
[15:55] <ravage> or terminal from the installer?
[15:55] <webchat52> Try other f1-12?
[15:55] <webchat52> To see if anything comes up?
[15:56] <hans> nvm found it, "apt policy package"
[15:56] <tomreyn> ravage: i'd think that if there's a "test ram" option on the grub menu this means that grub was booted in bios mode already, and you could continue with the installer
[15:56] <webchat52> The 4 options are :
[15:56] <webchat52> Kubuntu
[15:56] <TJ-> ravage: no, unfortunately. It'd need to be done from a UEFI boot itself, from a terminal but it sounds like it may have booted in BIOS mode if tomreyn is correct about the test RAM option
[15:56] <webchat52> Kubuntu safe mode
[15:57] <ravage> ok
[15:57] <webchat52> Oem install
[15:57] <ravage> so lets just hit install
[15:57] <webchat52> Test memory
[15:57] <TJ-> tomreyn: is it GRUB, or sylinux? has the installer changed recently?
[15:57] <ravage> and hope that its in BIOS mode now
[15:57] <webchat52> Gnu grub v2.04
[15:58] <tomreyn> TJ-: hmm, i thinkthose options are from a grub menu, aligned vertically on the top of the screen, i don't thjink syslinux would show it this way
[15:58] <ravage> webchat52: just choose "Install"
[15:58] <ravage> like you did before
[15:58] <TJ-> tomreyn: did I miss a photo of this ?
[15:59] <tomreyn> TJ-: there was none
[15:59] <webchat52> Should i choose try? So i can use commands or just installer menu?
[15:59] <tomreyn> echo -n 'This system booted via: '; [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo UEFI || echo BIOS      can be run from a temrina (ctrl-alt-t should spawn one, at leats on the ubuntu installer, at any time on either graphical mode)
[16:00] <tomreyn> temrina -> terminal
[16:00] <ravage> you can use try. so we can try the command tomreyn posted
[16:00] <tomreyn> (AKA konsole)
[16:00] <webchat52> Ok
[16:00] <ravage> you can start the installer from the live enviroment later
[16:00] <TJ-> tomreyn: ravage  the photo of the Boot menu was accessed from the configuration screen, it isn't the manual boot menu  - just noticed the sequence of those 3 photos of the UEFI config
[16:01] <tomreyn> TJ-: hmm you're right, these options can be presented by syslinux
[16:01] <TJ-> I'm betting there is a hotkey to press on Toshiba to get the manual boot menu; and it is probably displayed at startup if the splash screen is disabled
[16:01] <ravage> he said he pressed F12. so i think it is the boot menu?
[16:01] <webchat52> Tj- : the boot menu came from pressing f9.. but the boot.order from bios .. they're the same options thugh
[16:02] <webchat52> F 12 i mean
[16:02] <TJ-> tomreyn: indeed, syslinux always mean BIOS mode, GRUB is UEFI (due to layout restrictions of ISO9660 )
[16:02] <TJ-> webchat52: OK, thanks for explaining that.
[16:02] <ravage> if we are in BIOS mode a basic install should work now
[16:03] <TJ-> webchat52: typical of Toshiba and other manufacturers who 'simplify' things and complicate matters in the process
[16:03] <tomreyn> kubunmtu bios mode (syslinux) boot menu screen https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_new_2/kubuntu-9-10-boot-menu.png
[16:03] <TJ-> ravage: agreed. webchat52  when you say the "test ram" did you start the "Try ubuntu" mode?
[16:04] <TJ-> sorry, typo, say == saw
[16:04] <webchat52> Test ram is the last option of the 4 (gnu grup v 2.04) menu
[16:05] <webchat52> No try kubuntu option
[16:05] <webchat52> There's kubuntu and kubuntu safe mode
[16:05] <TJ-> webchat52: OK, the title at the top has GRUB, that means UEFI mode still. I think memtest86+ for UEFI was added recently tomreyn
[16:05] <TJ-> webchat52: "Kubuntu"
[16:06] <webchat52> Echo -n on terminal shows nothing
[16:06] <TJ-> webchat52: looks like that Toshiba UEFI won't do CSM if it sees UEFI on the device, so we'll need to delete the EFI label to get it to boot in CSM mode :)
[16:07] <webchat52> How to do so
[16:07] <TJ-> webchat52: which ISO file did you download? I'm going to fetch it and quickly test the steps to do this in a virtual machine here
[16:07] <webchat52> X64 kubuntu
[16:07] <webchat52> Latest version
[16:07] <TJ-> what is 'latest'
[16:08] <TJ-> do you mean kubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso
[16:08] <tomreyn> TJ-: i just tried the kubuntu 21.04 installer. it uses grub in both modes
[16:08] <webchat52> Yes that
[16:08] <TJ-> tomreyn: recent change then
[16:08] <webchat52> 21.04
[16:08] <TJ-> webchat52: OK, hang on a mo. I have that ISO here
[16:08] <webchat52> Ok
[16:10] <tomreyn> the https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_new_2/kubuntu-9-10-boot-menu.png screen i posted earlier may be outdated
[16:11] <webchat52> Tomreyn yes it's not the same here
[16:11] <TJ-> webchat52: since we now know Kubuntu uses GRUB for both BIOS and UEFI mode, you should check which mode it did use. Try in a terminal "journalctl -k | grep EFI"
[16:11] <tomreyn> kubuntu 21.04 bios boot screen https://i.imgur.com/x3B40fR.png
[16:12] <TJ-> webchat52: access the "Try" option of course, first
[16:13] <tomreyn> kubuntu 21.04 efi boot screen https://i.imgur.com/2fUK0ek.png
[16:13] <tomreyn> both are when booting to the .iso
[16:13] <webchat52> It shows UEFI
[16:13] <webchat52> 4 times
[16:13] <webchat52> In red
[16:13] <TJ-> webchat52: if you ran that command and nothing came back it'd be BIOS mode; as you see EFI it is definitely UEFI mode
[16:13] <TJ-> webchat52: now I have to reboot the ISO in UEFI mode in the VM
[16:13] <tomreyn> bbl, good luck
[16:14] <webchat52> Ok
[16:14] <webchat52> Thank tomreyn
[16:15] <TJ-> OK, something strange here, booting in UEFI mode, GRUB menu DOES NOT HAVE a "test memory" entry
[16:15] <webchat52> Reboot and post screenshot?
[16:15] <webchat52> With grub menu?
[16:15] <tomreyn> TJ-: that's expected, there is no open source uefi based memtest
[16:15] <TJ-> it has "Kubuntu", "Kubuntu (safe graphics)", "Boot from next volume", "UEFI Firmware Settings"
[16:15] <TJ-> tomreyn: I know, but I thought webchat52  reported seeing 'test memory' on the menu?
[16:16] <webchat52> There's test memory!
[16:16] <webchat52> No uefi formware setting
[16:16] <TJ-> webchat52: there isn't!
[16:16] <webchat52> Wait pls
[16:16] <webchat52> I will reboot
[16:16] <webchat52> Ok
[16:16] <tomreyn> i see
[16:16] <TJ-> See mine https://imgur.com/fXGrG01.png
[16:17] <colin_> hi
[16:17] <tomreyn> thats identical to https://i.imgur.com/2fUK0ek.png
[16:17] <tomreyn> (though mine is 21.04)
[16:18] <tomreyn> hi colin_
[16:18] <TJ-> tomreyn: 21.04 is the latest :)
[16:19] <tomreyn> TJ-: i'm aware. but seem to remember webchat52 was using 20.04. i may be wrong there.
[16:19] <colin_> hi tomreyn
[16:20] <webchat52> https://imgur.com/UzmUB38
[16:20] <webchat52> Gnu grub v2.04
[16:21] <tomreyn> TJ-: i am wrong, webchat52 has 21.04 according to the title bar at https://imgur.com/a/xpteBfC
[16:21] <TJ-> tomreyn: when I asked about the ISO filename "do you mean kubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso" and was told "Yes that"
[16:21] <tomreyn> ok
[16:21] <TJ-> tomreyn: makes things easier :)
[16:21] <colin_> im back
[16:21] <colin_> :)
[16:22] <webchat52> Yes it's latest 21.04
[16:22] <TJ-> webchat52: that /must/ be BIOS mode, so  start Kubuntu
[16:22] <webchat52> There's few lines
[16:22] <webchat52> E edit commands?
[16:22] <webchat52> C for command line?
[16:23] <webchat52> Or no use for those?
[16:23] <tomreyn> webchat52: move to the topmost option on the menu, and press enter
[16:23] <TJ-> webchat52: hilight the "Kubuntu" entry and press enter
[16:23] <webchat52> Ok
[16:24] <webchat52> Try?
[16:24] <TJ-> Yes
[16:24] <webchat52> Ok
[16:25] <webchat52> I'm in
[16:25] <TJ-> webchat52: start a terminal and "journalctl -k | grep EFI" and it should return nothing
[16:26] <webchat52> It returned with 4 ubuntu karnel events
[16:26] <webchat52> UEFI
[16:26] <TJ-> Whaaaa!
[16:26] <webchat52> Kubuntu*
[16:27] <TJ-> webchat52: "sudo apt install pastebinit"
[16:27] <TJ-> webchat52: then "pastebinit <( journalctl -k )"
[16:29] <colin_> um hello
[16:29] <webchat90> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5q9F2YzGYP/
[16:29] <tomreyn> colin_: hi again. this is the ubuntu support channel. if you have an ubuntu support question, just ask it.
[16:30] <luizfrds> don't really think this is the right place for ask this question, but maybe you guys may direct me to the right place. I develop embedded devices, and this one have a multitude of diffrent configurations, and today i'm doing it manually. So to the question: Can i have a .img (that would later be flashed on the device), this .img would have the linux on it, the main applications, everything already configurated, and upon running a script could i
[16:30] <luizfrds> dinammicaly add or remove files/folders?
[16:30] <tomreyn> colin_: ideally on a single line or two.
[16:30] <colin_> what do you mean tomreyn
[16:30] <tomreyn> colin_: i mean what i just wrote.
[16:31] <webchat90> TJ- : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5q9F2YzGYP/
[16:31] <colin_> oh ok :) tomreyn
[16:32] <tomreyn> luizfrds: is this ubuntu specific?
[16:32] <TJ-> webchat90: it's not EFI mode :)
[16:32] <colin_>   ok
[16:32] <TJ-> webchat90: those are just incidental strings with EFI in them - yay we finally have BIOS mode
[16:32] <luizfrds> i would like to solve this problem in an ubuntu enviroment
[16:32] <TJ-> ravage: are you still around or has it made you faint!?
[16:33] <webchat90> TJ-: i thought if i run the command it show nothing but it shows these 4 events so i had to say UEFI
[16:33] <ravage> im here :)
[16:33] <webchat90> sorry
[16:33] <TJ-> webchat90: I tested it in my VM which doesn't have firmware with the 'EFI' as a string inside!
[16:33] <colin_> what is vm
[16:34] <TJ-> webchat90: but to be an EFI boot you'd have string with a colon after them, as in "kernel: EFI: ..."
[16:34] <TJ-> webchat90: I need to get another coffee. but you're now on the way to gettinh Kubuntu installed
[16:34] <webchat90> TJ-:https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bzMS8YCygx/
[16:34] <ravage> webchat90: start the ubuntu installer from the desktop
[16:34] <TJ-> webchat90: after all this, and given your aims for later, I strongly recommend we use LVM here :)
[16:35] <colin_> i am now using virtualbox
[16:35] <webchat90> ok i'm ready for whatever LVM is
[16:35] <TJ-> ravage: we should hold off on the installer
[16:35] <TJ-> webchat90: LVM = Logical Volume Management
[16:35] <ravage> ok. if you want to configure LVM with him thats fine of course
[16:35] <TJ-> webchat90: remain in a terminal for now
[16:36] <webchat90> ok
[16:36] <webchat90> T-T
[16:36] <webchat90> i'm standing still, where else would i go
[16:36] <tomreyn> luizfrds: this image file would need to contain an ubuntu installation (i.e. one that was already installed), so it would have a boot sectors, partition table, partitions, file systems on those, and one or more of those file systems you could write your changes to.
[16:36] <webchat90> i feel dumb sitting on a chair
[16:36] <TJ-> webchat90: let's just confirm the layout by gathering some info first. "pastebinit <( sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda; lsblk; sudo blkid; sudo file -s /dev/sda1 )"
[16:37] <webchat90> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8V6YbDByJX/
[16:38] <colin_> (webchat90) what
[16:38] <tomreyn> luizfrds: said installation would be architecture specific, and boot mode specific (iether legacy bios or uefi boot mode, or whatever you are using in your embedded sytem). your other options, maybe better, are OEM installation and network installation
[16:38] <webchat90> hello colin_: i'm trying to install kubuntu :)
[16:39] <colin_> oh hi webchat90 :)
[16:39] <tomreyn> colin_: unless you have an ubuntu support question (or are answering others' questions with the level of competency that it requires), please don't chat here, thanks!
[16:39] <tomreyn> there's also #ubuntu-offtopic for other chat.
[16:39] <colin_> ok tomreyn
[16:39] <tomreyn> thanks
[16:40] <luizfrds> tomreyn, exactly this .img does have the os installation, it is partitioned and everything, it is ready to go, as soon i flash to my device, the OS would come alive. i just need to "insert" my application which varies wildy between use cases. I would like to generate these .imgs as they could be sent to the end user in some cases
[16:41] <TJ-> webchat90: OK, so for the final time - you are OK to wipe sda1 NTFS file-system?
[16:41] <webchat90> the windows 10 partition? yes
[16:41] <webchat90> there's nothing i want in C:
[16:42] <webchat90> but i want other partitions intact please
[16:42] <colin_> ok i need to go bye
[16:42] <webchat90> sda3 and sda4
[16:42] <webchat90> bye colin_
[16:44] <tomreyn> luizfrds: you could look into how the Ubuntu ARM images are created. I'm not sure whether there is documentation on it. They seem to be using the OEM installation mode somehow.
[16:45] <tomreyn> luizfrds: i.e. these for example https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi
[16:46] <TJ-> webchat90: OK, first we should change the partition type of sda1 using "sudo fdisk /dev/sda"
[16:46] <webchat90> ok
[16:46] <TJ-> webchat90: at the menu press 'p' to print the current table
[16:46] <luizfrds> tomreyn, but modifying an .img on the fly is absolutely out of reach?
[16:47] <webchat90> Welcome to fdisk (util-linux 2.36.1).
[16:47] <webchat90> Changes will remain in memory only, until you decide to write them.
[16:47] <webchat90> Be careful before using the write command.
[16:47] <webchat90> Command (m for help):
[16:47] <tomreyn> luizfrds: not if you read the partition table on it, and mount the file systems on it
[16:47] <luizfrds> my embedded device is an debian like system, this would be possible?
[16:48] <TJ-> webchat90: press 't' (for type) then choose partition '1' then set the type to '8e' (LVM) then back at the menu press 'p' again and confirm you see "Linux LVM"
[16:48] <webchat90> TJ- https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Dxb53mb5jh/
[16:48] <tomreyn> luizfrds: <luizfrds> i would like to solve this problem in an ubuntu enviroment
[16:49] <tomreyn> luizfrds: ubuntu is a debian derivative. but we only support ubuntu here. are you using ubuntu?
[16:49] <webchat90> Device     Boot     Start       End   Sectors   Size Id Type
[16:49] <luizfrds> tomreyn, on the "image generator server"  yes.
[16:49] <tomreyn> luizfrds: https://superuser.com/questions/211338/how-to-mount-a-multi-partition-disk-image-in-linux
[16:50] <webchat90> TJ- :https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HdHxRHK6zv/
[16:50] <webchat90> Command (m for help): ^C
[16:50] <webchat90> All unwritten changes will be lost, do you really want to quit?
[16:50] <tomreyn> luizfrds: both the kpüartx and the losetup approach should work
[16:50] <webchat90> typed ctrl + c mistake
[16:50] <TJ-> webchat90: as long as you see partition 1 showing as "Linux LVM" you're good. now press 'w' to write that change to the disk and quit fdisk
[16:51] <webchat90> press w now?
[16:51] <webchat90> it asks me if i want to quit
[16:52] <TJ-> webchat90: yes
[16:52] <luizfrds> tomreyn, after mounted, it would work like an virtual device? i could write it and close? easy like that?
[16:52] <webchat90> TJ- : now it's back to konsole and nothing returned after (w)
[16:53] <TJ-> webchat90: that'll commit the change to the disk. Then do " sudo wipefs /dev/sda1 " which will remove the file-system signature from sda1
[16:53] <tomreyn> luizfrds: as long as you mount the file system in read-writable mode, yes.
[16:53] <colin_> im back
[16:53] <mybalzitch> hi back, so very nice to meet you
[16:53] <webchat90> TJ-: DEVICE OFFSET TYPE UUID             LABEL
[16:53] <webchat90> sda1   0x3    ntfs F61694AA16946CFD
[16:53] <tomreyn> colin_: there is no need to announce your entrance and departure to this channel. please don't.
[16:54] <TJ-> webchat90: confirm it can be wiped if it asks you
[16:54] <luizfrds> tomreyn, thanks a lot! this would save like a ton of manual work! and server space
[16:54] <webchat90> TJ- it didn't ask me anything
[16:54] <webchat90> i wrote the command and that's what came up
[16:54] <webchat90> those two lines i pasted
[16:54] <colin_> mybalzitch: my name is colin
[16:54] <TJ-> webchat90: OK, so it should be done. check it now with "sudo file -s /dev/sda1"
[16:54] <tomreyn> luizfrds: you're welcome
[16:55] <tomreyn> onelegend: please leave the channel during repeated nickname changes
[16:55] <webchat90> TJ- : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/d5CwHD2Knh/
[16:56] <TJ-> webchat90: oh! we need to tell it to actually wipe! " sudo wipefs --all --backup /dev/sda1 "
[16:57] <colin_> hello webchat90
[16:57] <webchat90> TJ-: /dev/sda1: 8 bytes were erased at offset 0x00000003 (ntfs): 4e 54 46 53 20 20 20 20
[16:57] <TJ-> colin_: if you don't have a support issue please chat in #ubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-discuss
[16:58] <TJ-> webchat90: great, now we can start being constructive. "sudo pvcreate /dev/sda1"
[16:58] <webchat90> colin_: i'm sorry i'm really busy to chat and it's a matter of life and death to me now
[16:58] <TJ-> webchat90: what do you want to call the volume group?
[16:59] <webchat90> the whole disk name?
[16:59] <colin_> i allready have a support   TJ
[16:59] <TJ-> webchat90: no, a volume group name, semantic word that means something to you
[16:59] <colin_> ok webchat
[16:59] <ravage> TJ-: i think you should just provide some default values here :)
[16:59] <TJ-> webchat90: e.g. I generally make the VG the hostname capitalised
[17:00] <TJ-> webchat90: we can't call it "WEBCHAT90" :)
[17:00] <webchat90> no hahha not webchat90
[17:00] <webchat90> ok
[17:00] <webchat90> call it Memories
[17:00] <TJ-> ravage: maybe we should use "VG_REALLY_NOT_UEFI" :)
[17:00] <webchat90> 😅
[17:01] <TJ-> webchat90: OK. " sudo vgcreate MEMORIES /dev/sda1 "
[17:01] <webchat90> created
[17:01] <TJ-> webchat90: a VG is rather like a while disk; inside it we create LVs (Logical volumes) but unlike partitions these can be resized later and we can leave free space in the VG itself
[17:02] <webchat90> ok i don't fully understand this but i think it's a good thing
[17:02] <TJ-> webchat90: We'll create 3 LVs for best flexiblity and won't use all the free space
[17:02] <webchat90> ok
[17:02] <TJ-> webchat90: I'm preparing the way for you to later be able to switch to an encrypted setup
[17:03] <webchat90> thank you master <3
[17:03] <TJ-> webchat90: show us " pastebinit <( sudo vgdisplay ) "
[17:03] <webchat90> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CrJBsscdjc/
[17:03] <TJ-> webchat90: I want to see how many 'extents' (space) the VG uses (last few lines)
[17:04] <webchat90> 69.51 Gb?
[17:05] <TJ-> webchat90: now we'll create the 3 LVs with semantic names. "sudo lvcreate -L 750M -n boot MEMORIES"  then "sudo lvcreate -L 16G -n rootfs MEMORIES" then "sudo lvcreate -L 16G -n home MEMORIES"
[17:05] <colin_> ok i need to go bye
[17:05] <TJ-> webchat90: we're leaving 50% of the space free to begin with. I'll show you later how to easily expand LVs into that if needed
[17:06] <webchat90> boot - rootfs - home created
[17:07] <TJ-> webchat90: great. Now you can start the installer. At the step that asks how you want to partition the disk choose Manual and then we'll 'tell' the installer to select those LVs
[17:07] <webchat90> okay second
[17:08] <webchat90> should i check install 3rd party software for graphics etc?
[17:08] <ravage> yes :)
[17:09] <webchat90> ok
[17:09] <webchat90> ok i'm at disk setup now
[17:11] <TJ-> webchat90: I'm just about to follow along, in a VM installing to a new LV :)
[17:11] <webchat90> waiting :3
[17:11] <TJ-> webchat90: you should see a list with the LVs named of the form /dev/mapper/MEMORIES-something
[17:11] <webchat90> yes i see them
[17:12] <webchat90> there's still sda1 though
[17:12] <webchat90> with no type
[17:12] <TJ-> webchat90: you'll select each in turn, then press the "Change" button below and set the file-system type, and mountpoint
[17:12] <TJ-> webchat90: ignore sda1 - it is now the parent container of all the LVs
[17:12] <webchat90> ok
[17:13] <webchat90> boot first
[17:13] <webchat90> what should i change
[17:13] <webchat90> 788 Mb
[17:15] <TJ-> let me catch up! I've just created the LVs and am starting the installer
[17:15] <webchat90> i'm so excited :D
[17:16] <TJ-> OK, off we go. you'll notice there are 2 entries for each /dev/mapper/ entry. The 2nd one showing the size is the one we always want to choose, before pressing Change
[17:16] <TJ-> start with boot
[17:17] <webchat90> ok
[17:17] <TJ-> in the "Use As" scroll to top of the list and choose Ext4
[17:17] <webchat90> format?
[17:17] <TJ-> tick Format the partition, and in Mount Point choose /boot
[17:18] <webchat90> ext4 boot done
[17:18] <TJ-> it'll then spin while it thinks then select the -home and do the same but choose /home, same for -rootfs and choose /
[17:19] <webchat90> ext4 home yes format done
[17:19] <TJ-> now, after that, at the bottom of the entire dialog ensure "Device for boot loader installation" shows "/dev/sda"
[17:19] <webchat90> there's no rootfs option in the mount point
[17:20] <TJ-> webchat90: its "/" - the pat
[17:20] <TJ-> path
[17:20] <webchat90> leave it / ?
[17:20] <TJ-> rootfs is where the OS will be put
[17:20] <TJ-> yes
[17:20] <TJ-> if you've confirmed the boot loader is /dev/sda you can "Install Now"
[17:21] <webchat90> not selecting anything?
[17:21] <TJ-> how do you mean not selecting anything?
[17:22] <webchat90> should we do anything to sda2?
[17:22] <TJ-> No!
[17:22] <webchat90> i mean not making anything blue?
[17:22] <webchat90> like select
[17:22] <webchat90> where it should be installed?
[17:22] <webchat90> the rootfs?
[17:22] <TJ-> you want the install ONLY in sda1, which is what we've done
[17:22] <webchat90> ok
[17:22] <TJ-> rootfs is in MEMORIES-rootfs (an LV)
[17:23] <webchat90> No EFI System Partition was found. This system will likely not be able to boot successfully, and the installation process may fail.
[17:23] <webchat90> Please go back and add an EFI System Partition, or continue at your own risk.
[17:23] <TJ-> disk arrangement is now sda > sda1 > MEMORIES > rootfs > ext4 > /
[17:23] <TJ-> webchat90: yes, I just got that! that must be a bug in the installer
[17:23] <TJ-> webchat90: wait whilst I investigate WHY
[17:24] <webchat90> actually memories VLs are BEFORE the sda and sda1
[17:24] <TJ-> no, they're not. I was drawing the container heirachy. block devices to the left contain block devices to the right
[17:25] <TJ-> as you move to the left each one is inside the previous
[17:25] <TJ-> sorry, as you move to the RIGHT !
[17:25] <webchat90> boot > home>  / > sda > sda1 > sda2> sda3 > sda4
[17:25] <webchat90> wait i will post screenshot
[17:25] <webchat90> oh how doi take screenshot
[17:26]  * tarzeau__ usually does scrot the.png
[17:27] <TJ-> webchat90: tell the installer it is OK to Continue, it'll then ask for confirmation of the LVM layout to be written to disk, confirm that, and the install will commence
[17:27] <TJ-> webchat90: don't get confused by the Disk Setup list order, that isn't important
[17:28] <webchat90> ok
[17:28] <TJ-> I've done the timezone and User Info and its copying to disk
[17:28] <webchat90> TJ- : https://imgur.com/NQ6nhmM
[17:28] <webchat90> is this what yo umeant?
[17:29] <ravage> TJ-: so from what i read here we have benn in BIOS mode from the start and the installer throws useless warnings about UEFI?
[17:29] <TJ-> webchat90: correct
[17:29] <webchat90> ok
[17:29] <TJ-> ravage: at this stage of the disk setup, it seems so, yes!!
[17:30] <webchat90> can i change my name later?
[17:32] <TJ-> webchat90: yes
[17:32] <TJ-> although it can cause some issues if you leave it too long
[17:33] <webchat90> what's the differnece between name and username
[17:34] <TJ-> "name" is the friendly display name, username is entered into the system and is the name of your $HOME directory
[17:34] <TJ-> username is what you log-in as
[17:36] <webchat90> it's now installing
[17:36] <webchat90> :D
[17:40] <webchat90> TJ- thank you so so so so so much for your help <3
[17:40] <webchat90> thank youuuuu ravage and tomreyn <3
[17:40] <webchat90> thanks a lot for your time and support
[17:41] <ravage> let's wait until it actually boots :D
[17:41] <webchat90> hahha ok
[17:42] <ravage> TJ-: maybe a grub-install /dev/sda and update-grub from the chroot before reboot just to make sure?
[17:43] <TJ-> ravage: shouldn't be needed; we will check grub is where it is expected though
[17:47] <TJ-> my VM is starting with a blank display, in fact looks to not be starting after grub
[17:48] <webchat90> Installation has finished. You can continue testing Kubuntu now, but until you restart the computer, any changes you make or documents you save will not be preserved.
[17:49] <webchat90> restart?
[17:49] <webchat90> should i remove the Usb when restarting?
[17:49] <TJ-> No, continue testing
[17:49] <webchat90> ok
[17:50] <TJ-> we need to check the install is correct. I'm checking things out here to see why my VM won't start
[17:51] <TJ-> webchat90: back to the Konsole terminal. "sudo -i" if not already 'root'
[17:51] <webchat90> ok
[17:51] <webchat90> i'm root
[17:52] <TJ-> webchat90: then " mkdir /target; mount /dev/MEMORIES/rootfs /target; for n in proc sys dev; do mount --rbind /$n /target/$n; done; chroot /target mount -a "
[17:52] <TJ-> you can copy/paste that group of commands
[17:52] <TJ-> we're mounting the newly installed system at /target/ so we can check it
[17:52] <TJ-> :q
[17:53] <webchat90> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘/target’: File exists
[17:53] <webchat90> mount: /target: /dev/mapper/MEMORIES-rootfs already mounted on /target.
[17:53] <TJ-> webchat90: that means the installer left it in place
[17:53] <DuncanAcer> Trying to install a wifi driver for an Acer Aspire 7 with realtek. getting SSL Error. https://pastebin.com/j7jHggSx
[17:54] <webchat90> is that a good thing TJ-?
[17:54] <TJ-> webchat90: that is fine. if you do "lsblk /dev/sda1" you should see all the LVs correctly mounted under /target/
[17:54] <DuncanAcer> suggestions anyone?
[17:55] <webchat90> yes
[17:55] <webchat90> all listed
[17:55] <webchat90> 752 mb
[17:55] <webchat90> 16gb
[17:55] <webchat90> and 16gb
[17:55] <TJ-> webchat90: good. so now let's do a manual grub-install capture the log and let me see it.
[17:55] <webchat90> ok
[17:55] <TJ-> webchat90: " chroot /target grub-install -v |& tee /tmp/grub-install.log"
[17:56] <TJ-> webchat90: then "pastebinit /tmp/grub-install.log"
[17:56] <webchat90> error: install device isn't specified.
[17:56] <TJ-> webchat90: you're correct it isn't :D
[17:56] <TJ-> webchat90: " chroot /target grub-install -v /dev/sda |& tee /tmp/grub-install.log"
[17:57] <webchat90> :D
[17:58] <webchat90> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gczYVDbvXK/
[18:01] <TJ-> line 528 looks good. " grub-install: info: grub-mkimage --directory '/usr/lib/grub/i386-pc' --prefix '(lvmid/ZtMLB6-obuK-zY2Q-80mm-zyr3-3pu8-wY0QS9/6bfqBt-DZxG-UW26-BsHg-mmxn-LqsN-j1u6cZ)/grub' --output '/boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img'  --dtb '' --sbat '' --format 'i386-pc' "
[18:02] <TJ-> ... "--compression 'auto'  'ext2' 'part_msdos' 'lvm' 'biosdisk' "
[18:03] <TJ-> so let's jsut check the config " pastebinit /target/boot/grub/grub.cfg "
[18:03] <DuncanAcer> Looking for help with realtek wifi
[18:04] <webchat90> TJ- : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2hY5mtcjY2/
[18:04] <TJ-> webchat90: that all looks good but I want you to change the default GRUB config because it is a bad one as done by the installer!
[18:05] <webchat90> is it okay to change these values?
[18:05] <TJ-> yes!
[18:05] <webchat90> "
[18:05] <webchat90> # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE"
[18:06] <webchat90> ok
[18:07] <TJ-> webchat90: here, copy/paste this exactly as shown, every line including the first "cat << EOF > ..." and last "EOF"  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rccfgpkpYd/
[18:08] <TJ-> webchat90: that'll write a new file into the target with the changes we need, then you do "chroot /target update-grub" to apply it
[18:09] <TJ-> webchat90: the effect is to ensure you will see the GRUB boot menu and it'll wait for 5 seconds. The default is to hide it and set the timeout to zero so you've no time to intercept if something goes wrong
[18:10] <webchat90> where to paste it?
[18:11] <TJ-> into your terminal
[18:11] <webchat90> the 6 lines?
[18:11] <TJ-> it'll immediately execute and write the file. Yes, copy/paste the entire block
[18:11] <TJ-> I've got a kernel panic here, so hang on whilst I analyse why
[18:11] <webchat90> ok
[18:12] <TJ-> oh I think i know!
[18:12] <webchat90> what :o
[18:13] <TJ-> webchat90: whilst I prove I'm correct, you correct it there after you've added that file, and done the "chroot /target update-grub" also do "chroot /target apt install lvm2"
[18:13] <webchat90> i still didn't paste the 6 lines into terminal
[18:13] <TJ-> webchat90: then after that do "chroot /target update-initramfs -uv |& tee /tmp/initrd.log "
[18:14] <TJ-> keep up keep up!
[18:14] <webchat90> wait for me xD
[18:14] <TJ-> weeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzroooooom
[18:15] <webchat90> vm2 is already the newest version (2.03.11-2ubuntu4).
[18:15] <webchat90> The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
[18:15] <webchat90>   libreoffice-help-common
[18:15] <webchat90> Use 'apt autoremove' to remove it.
[18:15] <webchat90> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 200 not upgraded.
[18:16] <webchat90> do chroot /target update-initramfs -uv |& tee /tmp/initrd.log?
[18:16] <TJ-> webchat90: yes, same here, says installed - trying to solve the last bit now, wait
[18:18] <TJ-> webchat90: found here it hasn't correctly created the initialramfs file
[18:18] <TJ-> webchat90: show me "pastebinit <( ls -latr /target/boot/ )"
[18:18] <webchat90> what should we do about that
[18:18] <webchat90> btw i didn't do "chroot /target update-initramfs -uv |& tee /tmp/initrd.log" yet
[18:18] <webchat90> u told me to wait
[18:18] <TJ-> ok, good
[18:19] <TJ-> leave that command for now
[18:19] <TJ-> jsut give me this latest pastebin
[18:19] <Razva> Hello. I know this is not directly related to Ubuntu, but do you have any idea how can I fix this? `Err:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/system76/pop/ubuntu hirsute/main amd64 libpop-desktop-widget amd64 0.1.0~1627939102~21.04~38f3385   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.95.85 80]`
[18:19] <webchat90> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Mn7FjttvzN/
[18:19] <cluelessperson> Question, what wifi AC chipsets are well supported by ubuntu?
[18:19] <cluelessperson> Razva, works for me.
[18:20] <tomreyn> !popos | Razva
[18:21] <TJ-> webchat90: yours looks ok - mine is failing to find any kernels and therefore not creating an initrd.img-*
[18:22] <TJ-> webchat90: but we still want to be sure yours includes the lvm2 tooling
[18:22] <webchat90> ok
[18:22] <webchat90> let's find out
[18:22] <tomreyn> Razva: there are https://chat.pop-os.org/ and https://support.system76.com/ for System76 / Pop OS support
[18:22] <tomreyn> Razva: you could also try #linux here
[18:22] <TJ-> webchat90: doing the create here now, just need to check its build log
[18:23] <Razva> can any of you see if you can download http://ppa.launchpad.net/system76/pop/ubuntu/pool/main/p/pop-desktop-widget/libpop-desktop-widget_0.1.0%7e1627939102%7e21.04%7e38f3385_amd64.deb ?
[18:23] <Razva> because I can't.
[18:23] <webchat90> TJ- ok :d
[18:23] <ravage> Razva: the file does not exist. ask the PPA maintainer
[18:23] <Razva> That would be Pop I guess.
[18:25] <TJ-> webchat90: "pastebinit <( lsinitramfs /target/boot/initrd.img )"
[18:26] <webchat90> TJ- : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/s2JTcHFbGr/
[18:28] <tomreyn> Razva: we'll be happy to support you here when you have Ubuntu questions. those above are not.
[18:29] <Razva> Yeah, I'm going back to Arch and Debian I guess. :\
[18:29] <Razva> Thanks anyway, have a great evening
[18:29] <TJ-> webchat90: good, /usr/sbin/lvm is installed. You should be good to try a reboot now. Tell the live session to reboot,note it'll ask you to press Enter afer removing the USB key
[18:29] <webchat90> ok
[18:29] <tomreyn> Razva: you, too, and please consider installing Ubuntu.
[18:30] <webchat90> i hope to see you again :D
[18:30] <webchat90> be back in few minutes
[18:33] <TJ-> ahhh, found my cause. due to a failure to create the initrd, the grub.cfg had no "initrd /initrd.img-..." line
[18:35] <Ali-Karam> in case of system failure, how should I use Timeshift?
[18:36] <tomreyn> Ali-Karam: this tool is supported by its developer only, not this channel
[18:36] <Ali-Karam> ok
[18:37] <tomreyn> Ali-Karam: or, if you somehow ended up here even though you're using Linux Mint, https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift#support
[18:38] <Ali-Karam> I'm not using Linux Mint
[18:38] <Ali-Karam> Ubuntu 21.04
[18:39] <Ali-Karam> Linux Juventus 5.11.0-25-generic #27-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jul 9 23:06:29 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:39] <tomreyn> Ali-Karam: okay, so what i said before applies
[18:40] <webchat24> hello from Kubuntu!
[18:40] <webchat24> :D
[18:41] <TJ-> webchat24: we did it then?
[18:41] <rud0lf> hello from the other side
[18:41] <webchat24> TJ- yes we did !
[18:41] <webchat24> but it first it showed grup minue for 5 seconds as you said
[18:41] <webchat24> then some commands went by their own
[18:41] <TJ-> webchat24: ok, so now it's working I need to educate you on LVM and making use of the free space as needed
[18:41] <TJ-> webchat24: yes, that'd be the kernel messages as it starts
[18:41] <tomreyn> now that was easy.
[18:42] <TJ-> we disabled the splash display
[18:42] <webchat24> got you :D
[18:42] <TJ-> webchat24: I prefer to /see/ what is going on not have it hidden - then if something does go wrong you have a chance to see the clues
[18:42] <TJ-> webchat24: start Konsole again
[18:42] <webchat24> ok
[18:43] <webchat24> it says i'm not admin
[18:43] <TJ-> webchat24: as I said earlier I didn't assign all the free space in the Volume Group MEMORIES to the 3 Logical Volumes
[18:43] <TJ-> webchat24: "sudo -i" ?
[18:43] <webchat24> it asks for my password
[18:44] <webchat24> but it won't write
[18:44] <TJ-> yes, that is correct
[18:44] <TJ-> you won't see any typing
[18:44] <webchat24> oh
[18:44] <TJ-> type your own password and press Enter
[18:44] <webchat24> i'm a root :D
[18:44] <TJ-> then you'll be root@<hostname>
[18:44] <Ali-Karam> what TJ- is doing is wonderful
[18:45] <Ali-Karam> god bless you TJ-
[18:45] <TJ-> OK, so, to find out how much space is left in a Volume Group (hereinafter VG) we use "vgdisplay" and look at the last few lines that report the 'Free extents
[18:45] <webchat24> yes indeed Ali-Karam
[18:45] <TJ-> webchat24: you see the "Free PE / Size" line?
[18:46] <webchat24> gdisplay didn't find
[18:46] <TJ-> webchat24: "vgdisplay"
[18:46] <Razva> Here are some questions, before trying Ubuntu. 1) I have 3 monitors. Can I have 200% DPI scaling on two of them and 100% on the third? 2) how can I have a "classic" dock, like in Windows? 3) in a multi-monitor setup, can I list only the icons of apps that are currently running on that screen?
[18:46] <webchat24> my bad sorry
[18:46] <webchat24> Free  PE / Size       9415 / <36.78 GiB
[18:47] <TJ-> each of the LVM entities have a *display command: pvdisplay (Physical Volume PV), vgdisplay (Volume Group VG) and lvdisplay (Logical Volume LV)
[18:48] <webchat24> okay
[18:48] <TJ-> webchat24: right, so at present you've got 36GiB free - not allocated to any block device or file-system, so you can use that free space to increase the size of existing LVs, or to create new LVs for other purposes (e.g. I often create a separate LV for Videos, Sourcecode, and so on)
[18:48] <webchat24> i'm not sure what to do with that free space
[18:49] <TJ-> webchat24: for the sake of argument now let's assume your separate /home/ file-system (in /dev/mapper/MEMORIES-home) has run out of space
[18:49] <TJ-> webchat24: if this were a partition you're stuffed. But with LVM, when you have free space remaining in the VG, you can simply enlarge the LV and file-system *LIVE* (this includes the rootfs).
[18:50] <webchat24> the rootfs is where my kubuntu installed right?
[18:50] <TJ-> webchat24: you can do this now, just to see how simple it is. Let's add 1GiB to the /home/ file-system and LV: "lvextend -L +1G --resizefs MEMORIES/home"
[18:50] <webchat24> you mean if i installed enough programs with it's data to make the voolume full, with this unallocated space i can increase that volume later
[18:51] <TJ-> webchat24: yes, the OS is in MEMORIES-rootfs. Because you have MEMORIES-home separately you could install another distro in a new LV and share /home/
[18:51] <TJ-> webchat24: correct
[18:51] <TJ-> webchat24: run the command I gave you for home and you'll know what to expect
[18:52] <TJ-> webchat24: and if you ever reinstall, as long as you don't erase /dev/sda1 or this VG MEMORIES, your files in /home/ would not be touched by the installer
[18:52] <webchat24> extended!
[18:53] <TJ-> webchat24: right, so the key is the "-L +<somesize>"
[18:53] <TJ-> note the "+" that means 'add this amount to the existing size'
[18:53] <webchat24> but it actually in hard drives shown it's not named anything like home or rootfs
[18:53] <TJ-> without the + you'd be saying I want this absolute size
[18:53] <TJ-> webchat24: correct, the free space is part of the VG MEMORIES
[18:54] <webchat24> it's shown under devices
[18:54] <TJ-> webchat24: I use free space to be able to create and destroy temporary virtual machines, as I did for this kubuntu test
[18:55] <TJ-> webchat24: I don't use GUI so wouldn't know - GUI doesn't give me control I need to do stuff like this :)
[18:55] <webchat24> :D
[18:55] <webchat24> i mounted my other partitions
[18:55] <webchat24> files seem to be working fine
[18:56] <TJ-> webchat24: if you were to create a temporary LV as described, you can later delete it by first ensuring its file-system is unmounted, and then using "lvremove VG-NAME/LV-NAME"
[18:56] <TJ-> webchat24: note that LVs are bare block devices; you still need to format a file-system inside them
[18:57] <webchat24> how to know which one is home
[18:57] <webchat24> i know it's the 17 gb one
[18:57] <TJ-> webchat24: so, assuming you did "lvcreate -L 5G -n test MEMORIES" and now have /dev/mapper/MEMORIES-test you would then do "mkfs.ext4 -L some-label-i-like /dev/mapper/MEMORIES-test"
[18:57] <webchat24> but it's not labled
[18:57] <TJ-> webchat24: give them file-system labels then :)
[18:58] <webchat24> i understand now that the 30gb left with no use can be used for almost anything i want
[18:58] <TJ-> webchat24: "tune2fs -L home /dev/MEMORIES/home"
[18:59] <TJ-> webchat24: "tune2fs -L rootfs /dev/MEMORIES/rootfs"
[18:59] <TJ-> webchat24: "tune2fs -L boot /dev/MEMORIES/boot"
[18:59] <TJ-> webchat24: "blkid /dev/MEMORIES/*"
[19:00] <TJ-> webchat24: correct, that free space can be used for what needs it rather than - with partitions - having to pre-guess where you'll need it
[19:01] <webchat24> but if assign them to something like (home for example)
[19:01] <webchat24> and they run out of space
[19:01] <webchat24> i can't get them back as flexible
[19:01] <webchat24> so it's one time use unless i create them for a test purpose lik eyou did?
[19:01] <webchat24> as a new partition
[19:02] <webchat24> use then delete again
[19:02] <TJ-> if you used up all the free space by assigning it to LV(s) then you'd have to /shrink/ an LV (if the file-system inside it had free space) in order to give space back to the VG :)
[19:02] <webchat24> i seee
[19:02] <TJ-> webchat24: we also have "lvreduce" for that situation - to reduce a file-system it has to be unmounted though, so can't be done live on the rootfs (has to be done from a liveISO boot)
[19:02] <webchat24> very flexible
[19:03] <TJ-> as you wrote above - not "as a new partition" -> "as a new Logical Volume"
[19:04] <TJ-> Forget partitions for ever and embrace Logical Volumes :)
[19:04] <webchat24> okay xD
[19:04] <webchat24> i'm not sure i will be using this free space for anything for testing any time soon though
[19:04] <webchat24> until i have very large information on using volumes
[19:04] <TJ-> webchat24: that's fine, it's happy where it is but its waiting to be used
[19:05] <webchat24> because i honestly get very skeptical with these kind of things because i don't want to mess things up
[19:05] <webchat24> and lose files
[19:05] <TJ-> webchat24: if it were already assigned into file-systems it'd be locked up even if you needed it for something else
[19:06] <webchat24> so what's the differnece between my home and other partitions?
[19:06] <TJ-> webchat24: if you have multiple physical disks/SSDs you can extend the VG onto them and convert your LVs to RAID with a simple command
[19:06] <webchat24> i can store normal files in home?
[19:06] <tomreyn> Razva: i would have answered your questions, but i really don't know the answers. if you can't get help with this here, i suggest you just give it a try. i assume your chances will be best without nvidia graphics, with the standard ubuntu gnome-based shell on xwayland
[19:06] <TJ-> webchat24: /home/ contains all the user files. Your specific home is $HOME which will be /home/$USER/
[19:06] <TJ-> webchat24: on my systems that is /home/tj/
[19:07] <webchat24> that's like windows where documents are
[19:07] <TJ-> webchat24: that's what you see by default in the File Manager
[19:07] <TJ-> webchat24: correct
[19:08] <TJ-> webchat24: not that I want you to try this, but to blow your mind and realise how powerful LVM is, it has a concept of 'thin provisioning' whereby you can create LVs that, added together, are larger than the physical storage!
[19:08] <webchat24> i shouldn't touch boot or rootfs then?
[19:08] <TJ-> webchat24: that is, instead of having space allocated at creation of the LV, the LV expands as it is used
[19:09] <webchat24> woah!
[19:09] <webchat24> what do you mean larger than physical sotrage??
[19:09] <TJ-> webchat24: you shouldn't need to unless you're installed a LOT of programs. if rootfs does get tight just lvextend it
[19:10] <webchat24> rootfs is like my C: - and boot is like that hidden sda2 partion windows created?
[19:11] <TJ-> webchat24: The other daty I installed Kubuntu into a 32GB USB3 device. I used LVM, created an LV 'thin pool' and then created several LVs whose total apparent size is 64GB. In fact, they only use about 5GB right now but as I add files to the file-systems LVM will immediately add 'extents' to those LVs - just enough for what is needed, but the file-system inside the LV thinks it is very big
[19:11] <TJ-> webchat24: yes, roughly. /boot/ contains the boot-loader files and the linux kernel and initialramfs (initrd.img files)
[19:12] <TJ-> webchat24: if you don't keep the kernels pruned (removing older ones that have been superceded) /boot/ could run out of space. In that case 1st job is to remove the older kernels (as here if that happens) or 2nd is to simply lvextend it
[19:13] <TJ-> err, ask here, not as here
[19:13] <webchat24> i will always come to you
[19:13]  * TJ- hides
[19:13] <webchat24> hahahhaha
[19:14] <TJ-> There are plenty of others here that know what to do
[19:14] <webchat24> i know this is very nice community
[19:14] <webchat24> <3
[19:14] <Ali-Karam> is there a visual studio express alternative for ubuntu ?
[19:14] <TJ-> sharing knowledge is always good
[19:15] <webchat24> i can't imagine what would i've done without this much of help really
[19:15] <webchat24> so thank you very much for getting my linux alive
[19:15] <TJ-> Ali-Karam: Visual Studio Code is available for Linux
[19:16] <webchat24> really really appreciate it <3
[19:16] <Ali-Karam> thanks
[19:17] <webchat24> what should i do now as a starter
[19:17] <webchat24> i wanna start digging tomorrow
[19:18] <TJ-> webchat24: write your own kernel? :P
[19:18] <webchat24> like what kind of commands and being easy with terminal
[19:18] <webchat24> maybe some day TJ- :p
[19:19] <webchat24> and i will always remember it only started from here :D
[19:20] <TJ-> :)
[19:20] <TJ-> webchat24: in Debian/Ubuntu the policy requires every command to have a manual page. You can view those with "man <command>" e.g. "man lvcreate"
[19:21] <TJ-> webchat24: get used to them, they have a standard predictable layout and describe command line options, and much more
[19:21] <tomreyn> !a-cookie-so-large-ubottu-cannot-imagine | TJ-
[19:21] <TJ-> webchat24: read the man-pages for the system tools you have never heard of by listing the files with "ls /usr/bin/" - all those are commands and most will have man-pages
[19:22] <TJ-> webchat24: "echo $PATH" will show you the paths the OS searches for executable files
[19:23] <quantum_> I installed ubuntu 20.04 with ZFS, and am trying to remove old states that are filling up my drive. It seems tedious trying to enter them in one by one, and now I ran into a state for a delete user that I can't even seem to delete. I am trying zsysctl state remove --user badcup 'rpool/USERDATA/badcup_49ubm4@autozsys_3rybdl'
[19:23] <quantum_> ERROR Permission denied: Couldn't retrieve user for "badcup": user: unknown user badcup
[19:23] <quantum_> have been searching but there seems next to no information on how to get rid of old states on Ubuntu
[19:24] <TJ-> quantum_: presumably the user's entry was removed from /etc/passwd and /etc/shadown?
[19:24] <quantum_> I think so since the user was deleted or removed when I revereted to an old snapshot
[19:25] <webchat24> TJ-: thank you sooo much sir <3  there's a lot to learn - i'm happy i installed linux finally and got rid of windows
[19:25] <webchat24> linux is much more exciting
[19:25] <quantum_> guess I could try to add the user back or something
[19:25] <quantum_> not sure if that would work, probably the id would not match or something
[19:26] <TJ-> quantum_: if you can rediscover the uid you could
[19:26] <webchat24> i should go now to eat
[19:26] <TJ-> quantum_: check if it exists in the backups /etc/passwd- /etc/shadow-
[19:26] <webchat24> and have some rest and sleep
[19:26] <TJ-> webchat24: same here; dinner time
[19:26] <webchat24> bon appetite!
[19:26] <TJ-> bye :)
[19:27] <quantum_> I guess, but there should be some way to just force it
[19:27] <quantum_> no user exists
[19:27] <webchat24> enjoy your time all, and thank you so o=sooooo much again! i'm very very grateful really <3
[19:27] <webchat24> thank you
[19:27] <webchat24> see you later all
[19:43] <grtestuser> install-mbr:/dev/sda: Failed to find MBR signature.
[19:47] <tomreyn> grtestuser: hi again, do you have an ubuntu support question this time?
[19:49] <TJ-> grtestuser: please don't cross-post especially on different IRC networks as well (OFTC #debian)
[19:49] <cluelessperson> is there any way to check if it's possible for ubuntu to support full wifi AC speeds with the Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201 802.11AX ?
[19:51] <TJ-> cluelessperson: iperf
[19:52] <cluelessperson> TJ-, iperf is a speedtest, my question is about knowing whether or not I just need to install something to use gigabit wifi speeds?
[19:53] <TJ-> cluelessperson: install the device :) that's what will control the speed (oh, and clear radio frequencies with no clashing devices)
[19:53] <cluelessperson> TJ-, intel devices for example, might have custom proprietary drivers?
[19:53] <TJ-> cluelessperson: just be aware the AX201 will not support master mode (acting as an Access Point)
[19:54] <cluelessperson> I'm only getting 60mpbs, which is awful.
[19:54] <TJ-> cluelessperson: no, Intel are one of the best at open-sourcing their drivers immediately
[19:54] <cluelessperson> okay, so why am I getting 60mbps?
[19:54] <TJ-> cluelessperson: throughput will depend on a lot of things, most important the signal-to-noise ratio and quality
[19:55] <TJ-> other devices in the same frequencies only doing 802.11a/n will also slow it down. AX will only get full claimed throughput if no other transmission schemes are also operating in the same range
[19:56] <coconut> cluelessperson, i dunno if you are interested in it, but my laptop has an intel wifi 6 chip, and started to work with ubuntu 20.04 after an uefi bios.(from 1.34 to 1.36 if i am not mistaken).
[19:56] <coconut> just saying...
[19:56] <TJ-> cluelessperson: check which actual transmission scheme the device is using,it may not even be using AX mode
[19:58] <TJ-> cluelessperson: e.g. "sudo iw dev wlp4s0 station dump"
[19:59] <bet0x> Hello everyone!
[19:59] <bet0x> I have Ubuntu 20.04 on a Acer Nitro (Ryzen with integrated graphics) plus a Nvidia.
[20:00] <bet0x> When i do install the nvidia graphics the machine won't boot.
[20:03] <tomreyn> bet0x: do you select the "additional drivers" option when installing?
[20:04] <bet0x> tomreyn, Yes i did.
[20:04] <tomreyn> also, which model is this exactly, and which graphics chipset
[20:04] <tomreyn> and are you using the older 20.04(.0) release, or a freshly downloaded (from ubuntu.com) ISO?
[20:05] <bet0x> tomreyn, Acer Nitro 5 AN515-44-R58M 15.6" Full HD, AMD Ryzen 5 4600H 3GHz, 16GB, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650.
[20:05] <bet0x> tomreyn, Latest 20.04 from Ubuntu.com, can't use the 21 release yet.
[20:05] <tomreyn> because of the graphics drivers?
[20:06] <tomreyn> you probably mean 21.04
[20:06] <bet0x> tomreyn, Yes.
[20:06] <bet0x> So, dunno what the issue is right now.
[20:07] <tomreyn> have you tried disabling secure boot?
[20:07] <bet0x> I don't have SB enabled.
[20:07] <bet0x> I need to use CrowdStrike due work so is kinda mandatory to disable that.
[20:08] <bet0x> I reinstalled 4 times because it won't go after the crypt password. (I have full disk encription).
[20:08] <bet0x> I also tried nomodeset, blacklisting nouveau, etcetera.
[20:08] <tomreyn> what do you mean by "won't go after the crypt password"?
[20:09] <bet0x> I power the laptop, input my passfor beause the disk encryption. After that nothing happens, accepts the password but remains "black".
[20:10] <bet0x> So i didn't install the Nvidia graphics and now is using llvmpipe. Dunno what that is.
[20:10] <tomreyn> does the disk access LED show any activity at this point, though?
[20:10] <tomreyn> the point where it remians black after entering the passphrase
[20:11] <tomreyn> is the crowdstrike agent already installed, or is this still a fresh installation?
[20:11] <bet0x> No, i did fresh install with luks, then normal upgrade with nothing else to discard that too.
[20:12] <Gaboradon> Hello
[20:12] <tomreyn> bet0x: what about the disk indicator, if you know?
[20:12] <bet0x> I'm using 5.4.0-72-generic.
[20:12] <tomreyn> hi Gaboradon
[20:12] <bet0x> tomreyn, No disk indicator. But if i do get grub it means i have a disk working right? :D
[20:13] <Gaboradon> I can't install an older version of firefox, I mistakenly updated to 91 from 81, but I still have data/profile with 81 and firefox is actually still running, I don't want any glitches so I would like to revert this mistake and update it properly at a later time
[20:13] <tomreyn> bet0x: of course. i was wondering whether the system continues to start up and you just don't see it
[20:13] <bet0x> I tried to edit brug, from quiet to verbose and splash to nosplash
[20:14] <bet0x> so i can see how it boots, but if i do that there is no luks input for password LOL
[20:14] <Gaboradon> I don't want the new version messing with the user profile and settings
[20:14] <Gaboradon> I tried sudo aptitude install firefox=81.0 but it's not found
[20:14] <bet0x> Gaboradon, https://support.mozilla.org/bm/questions/952279
[20:15] <bet0x> You might need to get an older version because firefox self-updates
[20:15] <tomreyn> bet0x: since you're able to boot it in vesa mode, you should be able to access logs. can you see boot normally oince, so you end up with the black screen, then press ctrl-alt-del and then alt-sysrq-s alt-sysrq-u alt-sysrq-b
[20:16] <tomreyn> bet0x: then boot with failsafe graphics and access the log from last but one boot using   journalctl -b-1
[20:16] <Mekaneck> Older versions of FF could be vulnerable so it's not adviced to use those Gaboradon
[20:17] <bet0x> Then let me try one time more :D
[20:17] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: the profile will probably only get updated when you start the new version. create a backup of your profile if you'd like to.
[20:17] <tomreyn> !bootlog | bet0x: this might also help
[20:21] <bet0x> tomreyn, it will allow me to input the luks pass? coz i did that but didn't work.
[20:22] <tomreyn> bet0x: yes it should
[20:22] <bet0x> here we go again!
[20:23] <bet0x> tomreyn, i can do sudo ubuntu-drivers install nvidia-driver-470 safely right?
[20:24] <tomreyn> bet0x: it should not break your hardware, if that's what you mean by "safely"
[20:25] <bet0x> sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall seems more logical
[20:29] <cluelessperson> TJ-, not sure how to identify the transmission scheme
[20:29] <cluelessperson> in that output
[20:30] <bet0x> tomreyn, well now did boot, still llvmpipe :D
[20:31] <Gaboradon> Mekaneck, bet0x: Thanks for all the security babysitting but in many cases practicality and usability is paramount and this is why I update only a few times a year as most softwares these days introduce more and more changes I don't agree with, to hell with security.
[20:32] <Gaboradon> I don't want the stupid weekly update messing with my settings, I set it up and I'm done with it for 4-5 months.
[20:33] <Mekaneck> then don't come asking here for support with or for software that's EOL for a long time
[20:34] <bet0x> +1
[20:38] <tomreyn> bet0x: so do the failed boot, llvmpipe (software rendering / failsafe graphics) boot, and inspect logs from last but one boot.
[20:40] <Gaboradon> I'm just saying how security obsession is harming usability an experience, and thus work performance, if I have to deal with dumb software it take time off my work
[20:40] <Mekaneck> maybe it's not the software that's dumb
[20:41] <Gaboradon> I guess they purposelly remove archives once a newer version rolls over.
[20:41] <kilzool> I write my own...then I have myself to blame.
[20:41] <alkisg> All archives are archives; they're just not in the repositories anymore
[20:41] <alkisg> *archived
[20:41] <tomreyn> let's not get personal, Mekaneck
[20:41] <Gaboradon> Look, I've never been hit by anything via web-browser and if anyone came in I'd know about it, I know how to deal with security in other ways, so a lot of the security obsession may be excessive.
[20:42] <Gaboradon> If security updates were separate from functional an subjective changes mozilla's forcing down our throat, I would have no problem with it.
[20:42] <Mekaneck> Gaboradon: if you don't have a Ubuntu support question and only about Firefox, moving over to -discuss or -offtopic would be better
[20:43] <alkisg> E.g. firefox publishing history is at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+publishinghistory
[20:43] <alkisg> With links to all the .deb packages
[20:43] <Mekaneck> go complain over at Mozilla then Gaboradon maybe the listen and change things
[20:44]  * Mekaneck is afk for now
[20:44] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: you are still welcome to come here, but please note that ubuntu support, and especially volunteerr support, assumes that you keep the system updated. there's no need to discuss this on this channel. we can continue this discussion for a bit in #ubuntu-discuss if you are actually interested in the reasoning.
[20:44] <Gaboradon> I agree, I apologize for my own subjective response, but as I said, I would only temporairly downgrade until I'm ready to update, saving addon data (can't extract from raw files, needs a running browser)
[20:57] <cluelessperson> TJ-, well it seems my wifi adapter is not using AC speeds
[20:57] <cluelessperson> so how do I get there?
[21:00] <bet0x> tomreyn, dunno how but is working
[21:01] <bet0x> tomreyn, i did GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="amdgpu.runpm=0" on /etc/default/grub
[21:01] <tomreyn> bet0x: this doesn't have an amdgpu though, or does it?
[21:01] <bet0x> Yes
[21:01] <bet0x> tomreyn, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 4600H with Radeon Graphics @ 12x 3GHz
[21:02] <tomreyn> oh so that's the integrated, and you have nvidia additionally, ok
[21:02] <tomreyn> what a waste
[21:02] <bet0x> Double video card Hybrid.. GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 now this is my default OwO
[21:02] <bet0x> Yeah
[21:03] <bet0x> Desktop running at 700 FPS
[21:03] <bet0x> LOL
[21:03] <tomreyn> so disabling power management on the amd gpu makes handover to nvidia graphics work, interesting
[21:03] <tomreyn> hmm 700, that's really not the amd?
[21:03] <bet0x> tomreyn, Yeah, took me a while to figure it out.
[21:03] <bet0x> tomreyn, is the Nvidia, GLXGears is reporting that
[21:04] <tomreyn> ok, glad you worked it out. did you read this somewhere?
[21:04] <bet0x> My screen is an 144Hz
[21:04] <bet0x> tomreyn, https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1304
[21:05] <tomreyn> thanks
[21:06] <tomreyn> had you looked at the logs, too?
[21:06] <bet0x> yes, nothing reported there, was a leap of faith
[21:06] <tomreyn> but did the kernel seem to have crashed there, i.e. did logs end abruptly?
[21:07] <bet0x> no, normal boot
[21:07] <bet0x> i started to read about switches
[21:07] <bet0x> and "just tried that"
[21:07] <tomreyn> i see
[21:07] <bet0x> lucky guess
[21:07] <bet0x> I can see Nvidia on the Gnome About
[21:07] <tomreyn> can you file a bug repor ton this?
[21:08] <tomreyn> ubuntu-bug amdgpu    i guess, could also be nvidia, i'm not sure
[21:08] <bet0x> I'm using an Older kernel, they might not like that :(
[21:08] <tomreyn> oh i must have missed that, you're not o the GA kernel?
[21:09] <bet0x> tomreyn, 5.4.0-72-generic
[21:10] <bet0x> latest supported by CrowdStrike
[21:10] <tomreyn> bet0x: oh, ok. did you try with the latest, too, though?
[21:10] <tomreyn> booting, not falcon
[21:11] <bet0x> With the latest it just works after that amdgpu switch. Nothing else except the ubuntu-drivers autoinstall so is the kernel.
[21:11] <bet0x> Dunno if to grab the config from the "new" kernel and recompile the older
[21:11] <tomreyn> right, but needing this switch is an issue in itself
[21:11] <bet0x> Yeah
[21:12] <tomreyn> so if you can be bugged to boot the latest kernel once, and report it to the bug tracker using ther "ubuntu-bug" command, that could save others some hours of research.
[21:12] <tomreyn> it probably wuold
[21:13] <bet0x> I will read how to report it properly, I don't want to be "that guy" where everyone is asking coz missing information
[21:14] <tomreyn> I think it's fine to report it and also state that you won't be able to contribute to testing / fixing it. at least you'll have provided others with a searchable record of how to work around the problem.
[21:14] <tomreyn> !bug
[21:15] <bet0x> thank you tomreyn !
[21:15] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[21:21] <compdoc> is there a good app for finding and displaying all the images in a directory?
[21:21] <compdoc> videos too
[21:24] <tomreyn> compdoc: i think you can make file browsers do so
[21:24] <kilzool> I use vlc for video (great), and really any image viewer is good for showing pictures....if you want to edit picture GiMP.
[21:26] <kilzool> What flavor of Ubuntu? gnome, KDE? etc?
[21:26] <compdoc> mate
[21:26] <tomreyn> oh, so not gnome
[21:27] <compdoc> imageindex sounds interesting
[21:27] <tomreyn> mate is gtk based though, right?
[21:28] <tomreyn> eog, when pointed to a directory, will show show all the images in it (one by one, not an index)
[21:28] <compdoc> a 2d desktop. I can install any program from the ubuntu repos
[21:29] <kilzool> Eye of Mate?
[21:30] <cluelessperson> frankly, gimp sucks
[21:30] <cluelessperson> sorry
[21:32] <kilzool> what are your favorites cluelessperson?
[21:33] <cluelessperson> kilzool, I've experimented with several desktop environments.   I just go with ubuntu.
[21:33] <cluelessperson> it's the easiest by far
[21:34] <kilzool> cluelessperson, Understood.  What viewers for pictures is your favorite?
[21:35] <kilzool> Eye is good for mate, compdoc.
[21:35] <cluelessperson> kilzool, I found Ubuntu mate to be less reliable and crashing when I was testing it.
[21:35] <cluelessperson> kilzool,   for picture viewers I use ubuntu's built in
[21:36] <cluelessperson> but it depends on what you're trying to do.
[21:36] <cluelessperson> going to the grocery store, brb
[21:36] <cluelessperson> need eggs
[21:36] <compdoc> I just tried it and its better than nothing, but it displays one main image and thumbnails of other images in the folder. and theyre too small to see enough detail
[21:37] <kilzool> Should be an options to get it to where you like it, compdoc.
[21:37] <cluelessperson> compdoc, you're saying you don't like the size of the thumbnails in the image viewer?
[21:38] <kilzool> I don't have Mate, so just trying to google and assist.  I will stand down and let someone else add their opinion.
[21:38] <compdoc> they have shotwell in the app store thing
[21:39] <kilzool> that's pretty good.. customizable... doesn't hurt to try.
[21:39] <kilzool> you can remove anything that doesn't fancy you.
[21:39] <cluelessperson> I suggest not using the app store
[21:39] <cluelessperson> I think app stores should be avoided
[21:40] <kilzool> why? cluelessperson?
[21:40] <cluelessperson> specifically centralized app stores
[21:40] <cluelessperson> because it puts power in the hands of the company that manages it
[21:41] <cluelessperson> google/apple don't allow you to filter/sort out apps that include ads for example,  or they hide good options
[21:41] <cluelessperson> also, your letting the app store to hide installation details that users should generally be aware of.
[21:41] <cluelessperson> you're*
[21:42] <kilzool> A small concern when someone is trying to view photos on their mate.
[21:42] <kilzool> To get it how they like it.  Trial and error... try until you like.
[21:44] <kilzool> I'll assume Mate is window manager in Ubuntu, and I'm sure there is a section on the forums for that.  Good place to look if you are stumped, compdoc.
[21:44] <compdoc> shotwell seems fine
[21:45] <kilzool> :)  great.
[21:46] <kilzool> use shotwell in gnome too, its good...for editing I use what cluelessperson doesn't like, but it suits me well. ;P
[21:49] <kilzool> Good night world.........zzzzz
[21:51] <compdoc> I use gimp too, and it does what I need. I also have a very old version of photoshop that Ive used for years so i know where are the menu items are
[21:52] <rud0lf> gimp is wonky with advanced alpha masks
[21:52] <rud0lf> converted color to alpha, then separated alpha and tried to invert it
[21:52] <rud0lf> no friggin way to do it
[21:52] <compdoc> *where all
[21:53] <rud0lf> what's wrong with the concept of inverting alpha channel?
[21:53] <rud0lf> it made whites go crazy green
[21:54] <Gaboradon> Hi again
[21:55] <Gaboradon> Aptitude wants to remove 123 packages about (node and js) when I tell it to install the same version of a program already installed.
[21:55] <tomreyn> !aptitude | Gaboradon
[21:55] <Gaboradon> What's going on?
[21:55] <Gaboradon> oh, ok
[21:56] <tomreyn> does it also happen with apt?
[21:56] <tomreyn> (or apt-get)
[21:59] <Gaboradon> I think I saw that before but never came across a problem to figure out about it, apt says the following packages were automatically installed and are not longer required, use apt utoremove to remove them
[22:00] <Gaboradon> I think I can sort of speculate what it's trying to say but the message is a bit unclear and confusing with "automatically installed and no longer required" ... probably means they're no longer needed by the new version of the parent program that installed them, right?
[22:00] <Gaboradon> or in other words the parent that installed them is gone, I think
[22:01] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: yes, one of the two
[22:01] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: do run    sudo apt update    before applying any changes, though
[22:02] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: you can also look over this list of installed packages that have no known origin and no upgrade path:  apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$' | nc termbin.com 9999
[22:03] <tomreyn> (i.e. lingering security risks on your system)
[22:19] <Gaboradon> Interesting
[22:22] <bbbbb> what are the disadvantages of installing from a downloaded .deb vs using a snap? (not in official repo yet, and no flatpak)
[22:23] <Gaboradon> Now I'm wondering if I could pipe output of "ls" into  sudo dpkg -i ""
[22:24] <Gaboradon> Trying to get more creative in terminal
[22:26] <tomreyn> bbbbb: you'll need to (a) ensure this is from a trusted source and has not been modified by a third party after posted there by that trusted source, since it can run any commands on your system as root (b) unless you have also configured an apt repository providing security updates for it you're exposing your system to attacks through vulnerabilities in this software which may only be revealed in the future (or maybe it's already vulnerable to
[22:26] <tomreyn> begin with)
[22:26] <tomreyn> although the latter oyu can also have with snaps to a degree
[22:27] <tomreyn> and the former, too, it'll be hard to tell whether a snap can be trusted. but it could not easily run commands as root
[22:34] <bbbbb> Interesting, thank you. It's Slack so while proprietary I'm not terribly worried about giving it root access. It seems like the deb sets up the repo for updates, so I am going to go with that.
[22:35] <bbbbb> Turns out there is a flatpak available too, but I'd rather do my package managment through apt as much as I can.
[23:01] <oerheks> c/is