[01:15] <ball> popey!
[10:53] <daftykins> morning all
[10:53] <daftykins> (barely)
[10:55] <penguin42> yawning daftykins
[10:57] <daftykins> penguin42: the NICs have made it to me via a circuitous route, having been 'muled' over by my pal Andy's parents who must have been visiting him :D
[10:58] <penguin42> wahey!
[12:44] <penguin42> right, rtc battery replaced in mums pc; poor thing thought it was 2010
[12:45] <penguin42> she noted it had been taking longer to startup and seemed to restart as it was powering on, I'm wondering if it was that
[12:45] <daftykins> hrmm
[12:46] <daftykins> maybe it just wanted to feel young again ;)
[13:47] <ball> Well that doesn't happen often to me: Ubuntu just crashed.
[13:48] <daftykins> entire OS or just desktop?
[13:49] <ball> At least the desktop.  I was eventually able to get to another virtual console to perform an orderly reboot.
[13:50] <ball> When it eventually came back up it said something about an "internal error".
[13:51] <ball> I clicked [Send], in case that provides breadcrumbs that will eventually help someone else down the road.
[13:52] <daftykins> have a read of what you find in /var/crash/ dated today
[13:52] <daftykins> you only need to restart the desktop service, not the entire system :D
[13:52] <ball> daftykins: I don't know enough about Linux to do that.
[13:53] <ball> If it was BSD I'd have a clue.
[13:53] <ball> (well, that and I don't know Gnome)
[13:53] <ball> _usr_bin_gnome-shell.1000.crash
[13:56] <ball> Is there a good VNC viewer for Ubuntu?
[13:57] <daftykins> given the history of that being a completely insecure protocol i would caution against using it 
[13:57] <daftykins> unless there's some kind of modern spin that's got encryption and passwords implemented now
[13:57] <ball> There are and it's also possible to tunnel it through ssh.
[13:58] <ball> (where "it" is traditional unencrypted VNC)
[13:58] <daftykins> yeah but that's a little bit daft if you can't just run something saner to begin with
[13:58] <daftykins> for my client sites i prefer to have OpenVPN as the means to reach the 'site', then go from there
[13:58] <ball> I'm not aware of anything else that can do what VNC does.
[13:59] <ball> Yes, I wouldn't run it across the Internet or a big LAN
[13:59] <daftykins> i popped xrdp on a xubuntu VM the other day and use the Windows remote desktop client to hit it
[14:00] <ball> I've used RDP a lot but never to serve up an X desktop.
[14:00] <daftykins> i was a bit surprised that it was even a thing
[14:01] <daftykins> anywho i've seen Remmina before, that seems to handle VNC and RDP, not sure if it fits the bill
[14:01] <daftykins> i don't know how possible encryption additions may have complicated all that side of things
[14:01] <ball> Let me fetch it and have a look.
[14:02] <ball> Ooh, thought I was going to have another crash then.  Desktop locked up for a second or two.
[14:03] <daftykins> worth watching a process monitor to see if something is going nuts?
[14:04] <ball> Let's see what shows up in top.
[14:07] <ball> I'll keep that open.
[14:07] <ball> Remmina looks promising.
[14:07] <ball> Let me test the clipboard integration...
[14:09] <ball> I don't see it.
[14:13] <daftykins> if it's just basic top, i don't recall if it sorts by CPU % by default
[14:13] <daftykins> i started dabbling with htop a bit more recently
[14:14] <safiyyah> before I break my fresh install. I need to set up mu Kensington expert mouse which is a trackball. It isn't happy with the scroll wheel and two other buttons. I goodgled and found a patch for xorg.conf.
[14:14] <safiyyah> but I want to ask about it firts
[14:15] <safiyyah> the patch is here: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~pmaydell/misc/expertmouse.html
[14:17] <safiyyah> the current contents of my xorg.config are here https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/V2NQVJSzyh/
[14:17] <safiyyah> daftykins
[14:19] <daftykins> i don't really see why you even have one at all given that's just setting intel which should be default, i forget if you said that machine had additional graphics hardware
[14:26] <daftykins> in fact you need to remove that because you're not running intel anything
[14:29] <safiyyah> am I the only one with handpain and shoulderpain from the mouse and keyboard?
[14:29] <safiyyah> remove the xorg.conf?
[14:29] <daftykins> well just remove everything and stick in the contents from your link instead
[14:30] <daftykins> i have a couple of clients that developed issues but i think they are mostly down to their poor chair + desk arrangements more than anything
[14:30] <safiyyah> okay... brace yourself.... here comes the stupid questions but I dont know how to open a superuser pluma
[14:30] <daftykins> pluma?
[14:30] <ball> What's a pluma?
[14:31] <safiyyah> text editor for mate
[14:31]  * ball looks for a superuser currin
[14:31] <daftykins> first mistake is trying to do it with a graphical application
[14:31] <daftykins> fire up a terminal and just edit it with something nice and simple like nano
[14:31] <daftykins> ball: i almost called Mario and Luigi ;D
[14:32] <ball> More of a joe man myself but I put that down to my CP/M background.
[14:33] <safiyyah> nano makes no sense to me it never did
[14:34] <safiyyah> doesn't gksudo work for all editors?
[14:34] <daftykins> all you need to know is that you open the file with it, Ctrl+K lets you delete all the current lines, copy the contents from that website and paste it in by right clicking... then Ctrl+X, hit yes and enter to save
[14:34] <daftykins> i was under the impression that was a long dead package
[14:35] <daftykins> that or it was a bad move to try and run most programs with it these days due to changes, not sure
[14:36] <safiyyah> gedit?
[14:36] <safiyyah> gedit?
[14:37] <daftykins> still graphical, doesn't change the task
[14:37] <safiyyah> gedit?
[14:37] <ball> I don't gedit.
[14:37] <daftykins> i've just outlined how to do it all in one - what more do you want?
[14:37] <safiyyah> okay I am at the directory
[14:38] <ball> safiyyah: Do you own the file in question?
[14:41] <safiyyah> daftykins, I did it!!!!
[14:41] <safiyyah> i have been scared of that nano thing for years!
[14:41] <safiyyah> it wasn't so bad
[14:42] <safiyyah> do I reboot?
[14:42] <daftykins> if you don't know how to restart just the desktop, yeah
[14:43] <daftykins> no date on that website's post so mentions of kernel 2.x make it seem ancient xD
[14:43] <safiyyah> brb
[14:44] <safiyyah> i couldnt find anything newer but the mouse is ancient to be honest
[14:44] <safiyyah> they never improved the design just repackaged it with the little USB connector and bluetooth
[14:44] <safiyyah> I dont think the bluetooth work
[14:45] <safiyyah> will have to try it later
[14:45] <daftykins> rubbish protocol anyway
[14:50] <safiyyah> I don't see that anything changed at all
[14:52] <safiyyah> and I don't know why the text is soooo tiny on here (hexchat) I need a magnifying glass
[14:53] <safiyyah> oh that is better!
[14:55] <safiyyah> I suppose this means I need to google harder
[14:57] <daftykins> suspect your .conf is in the wrong place
[14:57] <daftykins> easy to read the logs to confirm
[14:59] <safiyyah> it is in /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg-video-intel
[15:01] <safiyyah> isn't that where it is meant to be?
[15:01] <ball> safiyyah: Any idea what the resolution of your monitor is?
[15:03] <daftykins> that's not where xorg.conf would go, nah
[15:03] <daftykins> and as mentioned earlier you are no longer intel
[15:04] <safiyyah> my monitor is 1920 by 1080
[15:05] <safiyyah> where is that meant to be?
[15:06] <daftykins> don't know, too much has changed in desktop land... i'm not current with it
[15:07] <daftykins> anyway i'm heading out to check progress at a client's place
[15:08] <ball> daftykins: Good luck!
[15:09] <daftykins> hehe thanks, thankfully we're still a ways off but muggins here will have a patch panel to re-terminate and a telephone DP to identify all the unlabelled phone cables of at some point 
[15:09] <ball> safiyyah: That's a mode, not a resolution but I get it.  I just wondered whether the OS (or its GUI) knew the resolution of your screen.
[15:09] <ball> Is a DP like a butt set?
[15:09] <daftykins> hey, family friendly :P
[15:10] <ball> (test telephone)
[15:10] <daftykins> 1920x1080 *is* the resolution
[15:10] <ball> daftykins: No it's not ;-)
[15:15] <ball> I was looking at some monitors recently where 1920x1080 could be either 82 DPI on a 27" monitor or 102 DPI on a 21.5" one.
[15:15] <ball> Hey what's a DP, anyway?
[15:15] <daftykins> that's just a semantic argument
[15:18]  * ball nods
[15:19] <ball> Is the patch panel 8-pin modular jacks or 4-pin?
[15:19]  * ball tries to think whether he's actually seen 4-pin.
[15:19] <ball> 6-pin?
[15:19]  * ball googles
[15:21] <ball> Over here I usually see 1 to 3 lines on a 6-pin or 8-pin modular jack for proprietary PABX or key system.
[15:21] <ball> ...or Ethernet for anything new.