[05:30] <marcoagpinto> Heya
[15:58] <TJ-> am I really here or has it been silent for the last 6 hours?
[16:00] <leftyfb> looks like 9. hours to me :)
[16:00] <PaulW2U> TJ-: I've been here since 11:04 (my time, UTC) and yes this channel has been silent ....
[16:01] <hggdh> not anymore ;-)
[16:01] <TJ-> thanks! I've had it where SASL wasn't working when the client connected and for registered channels it wasn't obvious they hadn't been joined - just looked rather quiet
[16:01] <TJ-> Shhhhhh you rowdy lot :P
[16:01] <TJ-> Some people are trying to sleep
[16:03] <TJ-> I'm exhausted just wrestling TLS certificate installation for libvirt. Only did it about 3 weeks ago and had to do it again today and couldn't remember how, where, or why!
[16:06] <tomreyn> "i'll only need to do this this one time for now, and next time it will work entirely different anyways, so let's not take notes"
[16:08] <TJ-> hehehe well yes I keep meaning to deploy a note-taking service but get stuck deciding in which one there are so many, then later I can't find my notes on which note-taking services I've considered
[16:11] <TJ-> Just been reading about the malacious hijacking of the npm coa library yesterday; Just cannot understand that dev-ops mentality that relies on just fetching/updating/deploying unvetted code in thay way. Apparently it broke a lot of React 'apps' 
[16:11] <TJ-> if it hadn't it wouldn't have been noticed
[16:13] <tomreyn> apparently, some of what used to be considered fundamentals are no longer being taught at dev and sysop school these days.
[16:14] <tomreyn> "no time to learn this concept, need to ship product" :(
[16:14] <TJ-> infrastructure becoming much more fragile and accelerating 
[16:14]  * TJ- nods
[16:15] <TJ-> all devs should have to spend 6 months writing assembler and C at a machine level - without a fundamental understanding of what is going on under the hood they're too darned dangerous to let out without training wheels and bubble-wrap
[16:16] <TJ-> 6 months working on security code too
[16:17] <TJ-> one of the projects I've been working on this last 18 months is a course for a UK modern apprenticeship that covers all this and more. Aiming to take on the 1st apprentices later next year
[16:25] <tomreyn> lovely, i'd send my kids if i had any. ;-)
[22:00] <cbreak> they have apprenticeships in the UK?
[22:00] <cbreak> neat
[22:00] <cbreak> I thought that was something that's not very popular outside switzerland