[15:59] <mapreri> ddstreet, teward: shall we?
[15:59] <ddstreet> o/ yep
[15:59] <ddstreet> teward around?
[16:00] <mapreri> btw: i'd like to ask if we could move back this meeting by 1 hour
[16:00] <ddstreet> to 15:00 UTC?
[16:00] <ddstreet> fine by me
[16:00] <mapreri> we didn't change the time after DST changed, but I have somewhat of a preference for what is currently is 17 UTC (and used to be 16 UTC)
[16:00] <mapreri> err
[16:00] <ddstreet> oh later ok
[16:00] <mapreri> i guess "move back" and "move forward" is always troublesome :D
[16:00] <ddstreet> yeah lol
[16:01] <ddstreet> i actually do have a mtg at that time slot
[16:01] <mapreri> let's say, to 18 of what my clock here say? :>
[16:01] <ddstreet> would 18:00 UTC work for you?
[16:02] <ddstreet> might be getting late in your day though
[16:02] <mapreri> it would normally but every so often it doesn't, I'd rather not have to reschedule "sometimes" if I can save it
[16:02] <mapreri> it 17 UTC you can't, we can keep at 16 UTC, no real issue
[16:02] <ddstreet> we should check with teward as well, and seems he isn't around, maybe we should bring it up on ML?
[16:02] <mapreri> it's just a minor inconvenience to me, I can easily make it work
[16:03] <ddstreet> yeah but surely we can find a time that works ok for just the 3 of us :)
[16:03] <ddstreet> let's start the mtg and we can add an action item for it
[16:03] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backporters
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:03:44 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:03] <mapreri> making 3 people agree can be harder than one can imagine :D
[16:04] <ddstreet> lol that is indeed true :)
[16:04] <ddstreet> i've been trying to reschedule the DMB meeting too, and that was WAY harder than i thought it would be...still not even done yet...
[16:04] <ddstreet> anyway
[16:04] <ddstreet> ok let's review the previous items
[16:05] <ddstreet> #topic ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:05] <ddstreet> ugh, i dont think i did this yet, but let's carry over and i definitely will before EOY
[16:05] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:05] <ddstreet> i'm going to carry over teward actions since he isn't here
[16:05] <ddstreet> #action teward update tooling, requestbackport (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: teward update tooling, requestbackport (carried over)
[16:05] <ddstreet> #action teward review backportpackage tool (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: teward review backportpackage tool (carried over)
[16:06] <ddstreet> we might need to get that backportpackage tooling change sped up, i think there's been some confusion with people trying to use it still
[16:06] <ddstreet> #topic mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:06] <ddstreet> carry over i assume?
[16:06] <mapreri> that will happen by EOY as well, I'm sure!
[16:06] <ddstreet> #action mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:06] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:07] <ddstreet> all the unassigned actions let's carry over
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:07]  * mapreri doesn't fully understand why people would even need a tool such backportpacakge to do such trivial task… tbh
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:07] <mapreri> I can take this
[16:07] <mapreri> in the form of opening a bug
[16:07] <ddstreet> great!
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:08] <mapreri> don't you need #undo i guess?
[16:08] <ddstreet> oh wow does that work?
[16:08] <ddstreet> #undo (unassigned) fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:08] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
[16:08] <ddstreet> ha nice!
[16:08] <mapreri> mh
[16:08] <mapreri> does THAT work
[16:08] <mapreri> back "in my times" it used to remove the "last recorded item"
[16:08] <ddstreet> mh
[16:08] <ddstreet> doesnt' seem to
[16:08] <mapreri> we'll discover in the produced minutes i guess
[16:09] <ddstreet> i should probably read the docs for meetingology some day
[16:09] <ddstreet> yep :)
[16:09] <ddstreet> you want the DEB_VENDOR action too?
[16:09] <mapreri> nope
[16:09] <ddstreet> ack
[16:09] <ddstreet> and for the rescheduling
[16:10] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet raise topic of rescheduling meeting on ML
[16:10] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet raise topic of rescheduling meeting on ML
[16:10] <ddstreet> feel free to raise the topic if you'd like to also
[16:10] <mapreri> don't we have an item for me to upload all of the tools ?
[16:10] <ddstreet> no but we can create one :)
[16:10] <mapreri> unfortunately I failed to get around to it
[16:10] <mapreri> better to have it tracked
[16:10] <ddstreet> #action mapreri upload all the tools
[16:10] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri upload all the tools
[16:11] <mapreri> so, I didn't even get around to it yet, but I see you handling the LO bug and one another.  how was the "feeling" from this side of the job of reviewing?
[16:11] <mapreri> I think that was the real first contribution under the new rules?
[16:11] <ddstreet> yep i believe so
[16:11] <mapreri> "to it" = "to read it"
[16:12] <ddstreet> it seemed pretty straightforward, though i think there's still some confusion over the need to simply 'open a bug' vs. actually finding a sponsor to upload
[16:12] <ddstreet> but this was just from 2 bugs so small sample size, and new process
[16:12] <mapreri> the LO process required a sponsor?
[16:12] <ddstreet> no that one didn't
[16:12] <mapreri> wasn't it done by the mail ubuntu LO maintainer?
[16:12] <mapreri> ah the other one then
[16:12] <ddstreet> it was yeah
[16:12] <mapreri> sdbus-cpp ?
[16:13] <ddstreet> yep
[16:13] <mapreri> it has a "Please" at the start of the subjct :(
[16:13] <ddstreet> to be fair, i am pretty sure it was opened long before the new process
[16:13] <ddstreet> April, i think
[16:13] <mapreri> 2021-02-18
[16:13] <ddstreet> yeah so back when 'open a bug' was the process :)
[16:13] <mapreri> fair, i guess
[16:13] <mapreri> it's still early, and not even announced
[16:14] <ddstreet> from our side of it, i do think we need to work out some better tooling, or at least figure out how to use the 'queue' script
[16:14] <mapreri> ack
[16:14] <mapreri> anyway, should we move to the main part of the meeting?
[16:15] <ddstreet> yep
[16:15] <ddstreet> #topic Discussion
[16:15] <ddstreet> I added some items to the agenda, obviously you or anyone should feel free to add items anytime too, or just bring up stuff during this part of the mtg
[16:15] <ddstreet> let's go thru the 2 listed items
[16:16] <ddstreet> #subtopic Clarification on BPO bug assignee
[16:16]  * mapreri look at Mr. anyone :eyes:
[16:16] <ddstreet> lol i'm sure we have just so many lurkers interesting in backports, don't we? xD
[16:17] <ddstreet> anyway for this clairification, in the sdbus-cpp bug it was brought up that the wiki isn't clear about who should 'own' the BPO bug, or if that's even important to the process
[16:17] <ddstreet> for SRUs, it's not really important, but for other stuff like the MIR process, it is important
[16:18] <ddstreet> i don't think I care either way, but it might be helpful if ~ubuntu-backporters gets assigned the bug after it's uploaded, so we would get an email?
[16:18] <ddstreet> or at least, the bug would be visible in a bug search
[16:18] <ddstreet> what do you think?
[16:19] <mapreri> I think it could help in case too many bugs gets subscribed to us AND ~ubuntu-sponsors, in which case, effectively, there is nothing for us to do.
[16:19] <mapreri> i guess right now our "working queue" is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+subscribedbugs
[16:19] <mapreri> (which we should really clean up, #action ?  I can take this)
[16:20] <mapreri> i suppose the real question is: do we think it's worth the extra "procedure line" just so that we can split the above bug lists *also* into https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+assignedbugs ?
[16:20] <ddstreet> personally i don't think it's worth it
[16:21] <mapreri> fwiw, the sru page doesn't even have one match for /assign/.
[16:21] <ddstreet> i think our mandate is to review uploads to the backports queues, right? we aren't taking responsibility for guiding BPO bug requests along
[16:21] <mapreri> well, we want to be subscribed to the bugs so that we can review things, even before uploads, aren't we?
[16:21] <mapreri> else why are bothering with bugs at all.
[16:22] <mapreri> plus I suspect people subscribing the teams actually want something from us, in general? :O
[16:22] <ddstreet> the bugs can be useful to have a discussion when rejecting uploads
[16:22] <ddstreet> but yeah, i think *subscribing* us to bugs is ok; i don't think we should care about who is actually the bug *owner* though right?
[16:23] <ddstreet> meaning the wiki should mention 'subscribe ~ubuntu-backporters to BPO bugs' but the wiki shouldn't say anything about the bug owner/assignee right?
[16:23] <mapreri> i agree, yes
[16:24] <ddstreet> ack, let's action item that then, you want to update the wiki or should i? i'm fine doing adminitrative stuff like this unless you're eager to :)
[16:24] <mapreri> I think I'll give this to you
[16:24] <mapreri> and I take cleaning up https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+subscribedbugs from old stuff
[16:24] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update wiki page clarifying requestors should subscribe ~ubuntu-backporters to BPO bugs
[16:24] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet update wiki page clarifying requestors should subscribe ~ubuntu-backporters to BPO bugs
[16:25] <ddstreet> awesome
[16:25] <ddstreet> #action mapreri clean up https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+subscribedbugs
[16:25] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri clean up https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+subscribedbugs
[16:25] <ddstreet> #subtopic Does wiki page need hint about checking the New upload queue?
[16:25] <mapreri> "Backport xtables-addons 2.6-1 to trusty" - fwiw, are uploads to trusty still actually open?
[16:25] <ddstreet> sorry, that's all for the last topic right?
[16:25] <ddstreet> no
[16:25] <ddstreet> trusty repo is closed
[16:26] <mapreri> yes, let's go ahead
[16:26] <ddstreet> for this clarification, the issue was that the sdbus-cpp package didn't exist at all in focal, so the upload went into the 'New' queue, instead of the 'Unapproved' queue
[16:27] <ddstreet> essentially, normal SRU uploads always wind up here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+queue?queue_state=1
[16:27] <mapreri> that's not weird at all, isn't it?
[16:27] <mapreri> it's the same for any kind of upload, also for SRU for non-existing packages
[16:27] <ddstreet> but a backport of a *new* package goes here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+queue?queue_state=0
[16:28] <ddstreet> yeah, but non-existing packages are rarely (if ever?) SRUed
[16:28] <mapreri> every so often *shrugs*
[16:28] <ddstreet> yep
[16:28] <mapreri> I also did upload one, and the sru team didn't notice but handled stuff besides that one
[16:28] <mapreri> (like, an sru to multiple releases, some with that package, some without)
[16:28] <mapreri> which is saying, even the sru gets "confused" about it :D
[16:28] <ddstreet> the question from the sponsor was, shoudl the wiki have a statement (hint, really) for sponsors to check the 'New' queue if their upload doesn't appear in the 'Unapproved' queue
[16:29] <ddstreet> yep
[16:29] <mapreri> I don't think uploaders should care about this implementation detail, at all.
[16:29] <mapreri> they get an email on upload, that should be it
[16:29] <ddstreet> as a side note, when we approve an upload, the binaries get put into the 'New' queue and need our approval - so we actually have a 2-step approval process, first the source upload, then the binary packages
[16:30] <mapreri> at most, add it as a line on the KB "internal" page, surely not for the people contributing.
[16:30] <ddstreet> that's my feeling too, we shouldn't mention it in the wiki
[16:30] <ddstreet> if the sponsor isn't aware of it, the email to them should clear it up
[16:30] <ddstreet> ack the KB page does seem right for this detail
[16:30] <ddstreet> i'll update that page with the info
[16:31] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue
[16:31] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue
[16:31] <ddstreet> ok nothing else for discussion in the agenda
[16:31] <ddstreet> #topic AOB
[16:31] <ddstreet> anything else to bring up?
[16:31] <ddstreet> should we have another mtg in 2 weeks?
[16:32] <mapreri> yes pls
[16:32] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet schedule next meeting
[16:32] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet schedule next meeting
[16:33] <ddstreet> ok anything else?
[16:33] <ddstreet> let's wrap then!
[16:33] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[16:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:33:31 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-12-01-16.03.moin.txt
[16:33] <ddstreet> thanks mapreri o/
[16:34] <mapreri> thank you.  enjoy! :D
[17:00] <teward> ddstreet: mapreri: I owe y'all apologies
[17:01] <teward> i've literally been chaotically busy
[17:01] <teward> but 2 weeks is right in the holiday week
[17:01] <teward> can we move it to 3 or wait until January for next meet?
[17:01] <teward> (all the vendors are calling today >.>)