=== launchd is now known as BuddyTheElf
[19:02] <alkisg> tomreyn: e.g. suppose one has an old ubuntu pc around and just needs python3 to do a quick homework for a day,
[19:02] <alkisg> do you think it's OK to tell him how to get it, or is it better to set "we don't help with unsupported releases, period" as a channel rule? (I'm asking, I don't know the answer...)
[19:02] <tomreyn> thanks for joining, alkisg
[19:02] <alkisg> Of course, after giving proper notification about the security issues involved, and also the advice to upgrade asap
[19:03] <tomreyn> personally, i'd say it's fine to help anyone who runs an outdated ubuntu release to take the steps needed to replace their current release by a supported one, through either backup and fresh install, or upgrading.
[19:04] <tomreyn> that's my opinion on #ubuntu - i have less of an opinion on other channels
[19:04] <tomreyn> i was looing for guidelines on this earlier, but did not see anything specific
[19:05] <alkisg> OK, so me mentioning that "it's possible to install python3 in 12.04" wasn't against the rules or something...
[19:05] <tomreyn> we have the general guidelines at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines and the supporters guide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide
[19:05] <tomreyn> alkisg: i'm saying that i don't think there are rules on this, so i was just stating my personal POV.
[19:06] <tomreyn> you could maybe say that #ubuntu is about ubuntu support only (that for sure), and that what is unsupported is outside of support
[19:07] <alkisg> E.g. "reminding them PPA's are not officially supported (!ppa) on the channel(s) but by their maintainers."
[19:07] <tomreyn> i think others have taken this stance before. i would prefer it being explicitly stated in thouse guidelines, though.
[19:07] <alkisg> I think that's similar; it doesn't say "PPAs are not officially supported so they can't be discussed in #ubuntu:matrix.org 
[19:07] <alkisg> (from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide)
[19:10] <tomreyn> hmm, maybe pointing out "what you are doing is a bad idea" can be sufficient. but effectively it does not seem to be. there are people who just ignore these notices repeatedly and do themselves a disservice. just like samfire, who has ignored this suggestion many times.
[19:13] <tomreyn> this would probably need to be discussed on mailing lists to reach an agreement and extend the guidelines. i'm not sure i want to spend the energy on that. i'd rather prefer spending some energy and, if needed, some money, on getting sam and others in this situation a way forward (because just upgrading a 32-bit system toto 18.04 really isn't much of a way forward)
[19:14] <tomreyn> if anyone else has opinions on this, i'd be delighted to hear those
[19:15] <alkisg> In some cases, an ubuntu pc around isn't the "main device", they launch it e.g. once per month. I wouldn't want to spend the energy to get THAT pc to an updated state. Of course I would advice the user to do it, but if the user doesn't care, he may have a reason...
[19:16] <alkisg> I wouldn't mind helping a user to find a way to get his homework done though
[19:16] <alkisg> If #ubuntu doesn't mind me doing so, that's what I would personally prefer to do...
[19:18] <alkisg> E.g. in Greece there are probably 500 computer labs with Ubuntu 12.04. Of course I put a lot of pressure on teacher that want my support to get them updated, but I don't refuse helping them just because it's not officially supported
[19:19] <alkisg> Thank you for your thoughs tomreyn , much appreciated! :)
[19:19] <tomreyn> that's great of you. but i'd say that your personal take on when you're willing to support others does not have to be identical with that of the official ubuntu support channel
[19:21] <tomreyn> but, yes, there do't seem to be *specific* rules on supporting EOL releases for #ubuntu now, for all i can tell.
[19:21] <tomreyn> helping with homework assignments does not seem to be on topic, though
[19:21] <tomreyn> I also thank you for sharing your opinion, alkisg!
[19:22] <tomreyn> (and I very much like that you dedicate a lot of your time on supporting education in Greece)
[19:22] <alkisg> Of course my thoughts doesn't need to be the same as the support channel guidelines. I believe that the community members that do the support should be able to voice their preference, then the community (which also involves canonical, but not only canonical) should decide about the rules, and when they're set, everyone should respect them
[19:23] <alkisg> Helping with homework certainly isn't on topic, but helping with ubuntu would be, even if the user just wants to do a homework later on
[19:24] <alkisg> I.e. "how to install python", not "how can I solve my homework"
[19:25] <tomreyn> Oh, of course, that would be on topic.
[19:27] <tomreyn> if there won't be others voicing their opinions here and there won't be a general consensus on this, i'll try to hold back on asking others not to support this in #ubuntu for now.
[19:28] <tomreyn> (though i think i can still suggest not to do so, but should point this out as a personal POV)
[19:49] <alkisg> 👍️