[05:45] <JanC> Jeremy31: I don't know about the DKMS part, but the driver itself has been broken forever; to get that chip & similar chips working, you usually have to hunt down a different version with up-to-date kernel patches provided by someone new every couple years, because people figure out quickly that it is less work to buy new properly supported hardware than try to keep this out-of-tree driver working
[05:46] <JanC> the driver itself is quite horrible from what I understand
[05:47] <JanC> and will never make it into the upstream kernel because of that
[05:47] <daftykins> this sounds fun, what hardware is this?
[05:48] <JanC> Realtek rtl8812au, rtl8821au, & similar
[05:50] <daftykins> ah ha, thanks :)
[05:52] <JanC> basically, every couple years someone buys an USB wifi adapter wit ha variation of that chip, finds out it doesn't work, that the existing drivers for it don't work with recent kernels, fixes it (more or less), fixes it a couple more times for new kernel versions, gets tired of it & buys better hardware
[05:53] <JanC> so users end up chasing down who was the latest guy who got it working more or less
[05:53] <daftykins> gotta keep the Linux + WiFi meme going
[05:54] <JanC> (tech-savvy users who know how to get a git repository working with DKMS)
[05:55] <JanC> nowadays most internal WiFi tends to work fine actually
[05:56] <daftykins> it's not my first rodeo fwiw
[05:57] <JanC> it's mostly that no manufacturer cares about USB WiFi on linux
[05:58] <daftykins> there was that spate of cheap adapters that had only one antenna attached out of a pair and the default driver fired up the wrong one iirc
[05:59] <JanC> laptop manufacturers like Dell, Lenovo (Thinkpad), HP, Asus, etc. all want WiFi to work
[05:59] <JanC> as do mobile chips that are intended to use Android
[06:00] <JanC> the USB/WiFi chips don't really seem to have much support for linux
[06:00] <JanC> or maybe a throwaway pile of crap at best
[06:01] <JanC> (I'm sure there are exceptions)
[07:12] <ducasse> morning
[10:57] <Jeremy31> JanC: There are github repos by aircrack-ng that seem to stay on top of the changes for the 8812, 8814, and 8821 chipsets
[17:05] <ELQEYNN> There was nobody in this channel nine hours ago.
[17:07] <Maik> not true, there are always people here.... just ideling
[17:08] <Maik> if you want more chatter join the offtopic channel instead
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> or start a discussion yourself
[17:15] <Maik> which ends up in talking to yourself 90% of the time XD
[17:16] <lotuspsychje> unless you say something interesting :p
[17:16] <Maik> attention seeking isn't something i'm waiting for :P
[17:17] <ELQEYNN> In the computer support channels, aren't people looking for computer support more than attention?
[17:18] <Maik> yep but it looks like you're seeking attention :P
[17:19] <ELQEYNN> In these days, I was calling everyone's attention to the fact that Linux generally had trouble with Dell Alienware's WiFi card.
[17:20] <ELQEYNN> yeah ... attention to a certain issue is what I was looking for.
[17:21] <ELQEYNN> And one other issue about nouveau and the NVIDIA card ...
[17:22] <Maik> you got help with that, didn't you?
[17:22] <ELQEYNN> The latter, a few others had trouble with, but not me.
[17:25] <ELQEYNN> But this all could be part of a larger issue, namely that many consider consumer Linux to be just a hobbyist curiosity -- and this includes both hardware makers and software developers.
[17:26] <Maik> same old story i heard many times before in my 14+ years with Linux, i started to care less about that
[17:26] <Maik> i just use it and am happy
[17:28] <ELQEYNN> You might want to Google "nouveau & nvidia", and you'll see a lot about the nvidia helping with nouveau but not releasing their propietary drivers to the Linux makers.
[17:28] <ELQEYNN>  
[17:28] <Maik> as i said, same old story
[17:28] <Maik> i simply don't care
[17:29] <ELQEYNN> I didn't understand: same old story .... You don't care, but you are happy using it?
[17:29] <Maik> i use intel stuff, not nvidia crap
[17:30] <Maik> and i'm not further interested in the conversation
[17:30] <ELQEYNN> So, you have a non-nvidia video card?
[17:30] <Maik> sigh
[17:31] <ELQEYNN> If you have a non-nvidia card that does well with Linux and Windows, I'm sure that lots of people would want to hear about it!
[17:33] <ELQEYNN> I have talked to several people who now use Apple-Mac computers, and they want nothing more to do with either Windows or Linux.
[17:34] <Maik> last reply then i'm out.... I use INTEL as i said before. And by the way i do not use windows at all.
[17:34] <ELQEYNN> Intel makes video cards?
[17:35] <Maik> on what planet you live on?
[17:37] <ELQEYNN> OK. And that is what's in your computer?
[17:39] <Maik> Graphics: Device-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics vendor: Lenovo driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.13 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics (ILK) v: 2.1 Mesa 21.0.3 direct render: Yes 
[17:39] <Maik> enough said
[17:40] <ELQEYNN> Does that card have a GPU in it?
[17:41] <Maik> have a nice one, i'm out
[17:41] <Maik> laters
[17:43] <ELQEYNN> Maik, is your computer a Lenovo?
[17:43] <ELQEYNN> Hello Sven_vB ?
[17:43] <Sven_vB> hi ELQEYNN :)
[17:45] <ELQEYNN> Sven, does your machine use a NVIDIA card?
[17:45] <Sven_vB> nope
[17:45] <ELQEYNN> an Intel card?
[17:46] <ELQEYNN> an Intel video card?
[17:47]  * lotuspsychje grabs popcorn
[17:58] <CodeMouse92> Only people with nothing to contribute to the world feel the need to join official chatrooms for one thing just to talk about how something else is so much better.
[17:59] <CodeMouse92> It's just a cry for purpose, really.
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> +1
[18:03] <ELQEYNN> CodeMouse, how about yourself?
[18:04] <Sven_vB> ELQEYNN, yes, "Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)"
[18:04] <CodeMouse92> I'm good, thanks. Working on a code refactor @ work that will make a lot of people's lives easier. :)
[18:04] <CodeMouse92> Thanks for asking, though.
[18:05] <ELQEYNN> Dven, is your graphics controller like a GPU ?
[18:05]  * CodeMouse92 gazes meaningfully at the word "integrated"
[18:06] <ELQEYNN> CodeMouse92, I'd like to hear more about how you might be making my life easier.
[18:06] <CodeMouse92> ELQEYNN: You might be shocked to know, not everything revolves around you.
[18:06] <CodeMouse92> This change being one such example. The people who benefit actually do real work.
[18:07] <ELQEYNN> revolves around me and others,I hope
[18:07] <Maik> ELQEYNN: if it's not Ubuntu related take it to offtopic please
[18:07] <CodeMouse92> ...yes, please do. We do enjoy snacking on trolls who aren't smart enough to do anything but whine about how inferior Linux is.
[18:09] <ELQEYNN> I'm not whining. Linux has its advantages.
[18:09] <CodeMouse92> We know. ;)
[18:10] <ELQEYNN> I am quite comfortable with SuSE on my desktop -- more comfortable than with Windows.
[18:11] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: then join a Suse channel
[18:11] <Maik> if you're comfortable with SuSE then what are you even doing here
[18:12] <ELQEYNN> I had trouble with Linux on my new laptop; and it took an expensive session with a consultant to get ubuntu to work.
[18:13] <ELQEYNN> after all these people told me that getting Linux to work with Alienware's WiFi hardeare was a lost cause.
[18:13] <Maik> get yourself hardware that actually works OOTB on Linux
[18:14] <CodeMouse92> Or maybe use what you like, and leave those of us with real lives to use what works for us.
[18:14] <ELQEYNN> O0TB?
[18:14] <Maik> google it
[18:14] <CodeMouse92> Out Of The Box, for those of you who aren't technically inclined enough to be in here.
[18:15] <Maik> probably a total newb
[18:15] <ELQEYNN> This is my first experience with ubuntu.
[18:15] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: I didn't see you post your chipset to the #ubuntu channel for help with it
[18:15] <CodeMouse92> Maik: That is the #1 cause of coming in here with the sole purpose of being a noise generator.
[18:15] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: if you want help with wifi on ubuntu, please go and ask for help with wifi in #ubuntu 
[18:15] <Maik> ELQEYNN: but not first with Linux i guess
[18:16] <Maik> basically it's all the same in the end
[18:16] <Maik> leftyfb: didn't he do so already a few days ago?
[18:17] <CodeMouse92> ELQEYNN: If you actually want help, quit going on about how much better <X> is than Ubuntu and ask questions so you can learn. If you're not capable of that, please take your trolling elsewhere.
[18:17] <leftyfb> Maik: Imaybe I'm missing it(they post a lot) but I'm not seeing any outputs from lspci or the like
[18:18] <ELQEYNN> CodeMouse92 I did need help, and I think I got it.
[18:18] <CodeMouse92> ELQEYNN: Heck of a funny way of asking for it.
[18:18] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: is your wifi on ubuntu wokring?
[18:18] <leftyfb> working*
[18:18] <ELQEYNN> It is working now, with ubuntu.
[18:18] <CodeMouse92> Oh, excellent, then we're done here.
[18:19] <Maik> well then
[18:19] <leftyfb> then WTF
[18:19] <Maik> so what are you complaining about if it works
[18:19] <CodeMouse92> Maik: His aspiration is clearly to be a noise generator.
[18:19] <Maik> as i said earlier: Attention seeking
[18:19] <CodeMouse92> Yup.
[18:20] <CodeMouse92> The hobby of the aimless and irrelevant soul.
[18:20] <ELQEYNN> I was hoping to bring some pressure on the hardware makers and software makers to give us better products.
[18:21] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: this channel isn't how you do that. Contact Intel
[18:21] <CodeMouse92> Kinda a pity, too. No one *has* to be that way. Such individuals just don't want to do things that require real effort.
[18:22] <ELQEYNN> I have been finding out some interesting things about hardware and associated drivers.
 I was hoping to bring some pressure on the hardware makers and software makers to give us better products. ---> then you're at the wrong place
[18:23] <ELQEYNN> hoping to engage other people in the effort 
[18:24] <ELQEYNN> With what I spent on the consultant to get ubuntu working with the WiFi, I could have bought a new AppleMac.
[18:24] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: that is your own fault.
[18:24] <Maik> sure....
[18:25] <ELQEYNN> I guess so.
[18:25] <Maik> i find that hard to believe to be honest
[18:28] <ELQEYNN> As I said before, people here and on other Linux-related channels were telling me that Linux on my Alienware laptop was a lost cause. And my consultant proved them wrong.
[18:29] <Maik> 95% of the people here are just users and volunteers, not experts
[18:29] <ELQEYNN> ok
[18:30] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: I do not think anyone in #ubuntu told you it was a lost cause. In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw someone post that they had the same hardware and it worked fine.
[18:30] <Maik> can we move on now? Looping the whole story again doesn't get you anywhere. You got it working so be happy.
[18:30] <ELQEYNN> fine.
[18:30] <Maik> leftyfb: exactly that's what i remember too
[18:37] <ELQEYNN> There is a SUSE employee in the opensuse channel. Is there any employee of the ubuntu developers on this channel? or in #ubuntu ?
[18:37] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: irrelevant 
[18:38] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: Ubuntu does not do their support through IRC. Feel free to contact Canonical for support with Ubuntu support technicians 
[18:38] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: if feel free to file and contribute to bugs on launchpad.net
[18:40] <Maik> i don't think the ubuntu developers have time to waste on IRC
[18:42] <ELQEYNN> We're not worthy of their contempt.
[18:42] <ELQEYNN> WE are customers and consumers.
[18:42] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: Feel free to contact Canonical for support with Ubuntu support technicians 
[18:42] <CodeMouse92> No, they just have better avenues for support than weeding through random conversations bordering on mindless drivel in IRC
[18:43] <CodeMouse92> (This convo being a PRIME example)
[18:44] <ELQEYNN> We are people who have problems with their software systems that we need help with.
[18:44] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: Feel free to contact Canonical for support with Ubuntu support technicians 
[18:45] <Maik> ELQEYNN: you forget that in #ubuntu we provide support that is given by the community and volunteers, NOT professionals/experts. If you want pro help then get payed support....
[18:46] <Maik> for now it's enough imo
[18:46] <CodeMouse92> And before you whine about paying for support, remember that you paid nothing for Ubuntu itself. You're welcome to buy an OS you are less inclined to complain about if you prefer.
[18:47] <ELQEYNN> SUSE had one of their employees hanging out in its IRC support channel. So, the ubuntu developers would be sell-served to do the same.
[18:47] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: no
[18:47] <Maik> ELQEYNN: isn't it better for you to go back to Suse then?
[18:47] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: does Apple have their employees on IRC helping users? How about Microsoft? Or maybe Ford or Samsung?
[18:47] <CodeMouse92> ELQEYNN: The Canonical engineers are too busy doing real work to repeat the purpose of the Canonical support team by listening to your misdirected blather in IRC.
[18:48] <CodeMouse92> If you don't want to use the established contact channels, then you really don't want help, and just want to complain.
[18:48] <Maik> and remember Ubuntu or any other linux distribution comes with absolutly no warranty. If something doesn't work you seek community support, search for solutions yourself and file bugs.
[18:48] <CodeMouse92> Which...of course, is already an established fact that you only want to complain.
[18:49] <Maik> exactly
[18:50] <ELQEYNN> What is the purpose of this channel and  other Linux-related IRC channels, then?
[18:50] <Maik> can you read?
[18:50] <CodeMouse92> ELQEYNN: Since you're too lazy to read, I'll summarize the above for you.
[18:50] <CodeMouse92> Are you ready?
[18:50] <CodeMouse92> FOR THE COMMUNITY TO SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER
[18:50] <Maik> it's COMMUNITY support you get 
[18:50] <ELQEYNN> fine.
[18:51] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: the purpose if THIS channel is "for quality ubuntu discussions". 
[18:51] <CodeMouse92> (And this ain't one)
[18:51] <leftyfb> I love how someone put that in there
[18:52] <ELQEYNN> And while waiting for call-backs with paid support, there should be no problem with asking questions in an IRC community.
[18:53] <Maik> just stop it, we explained enough
[18:54] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: we do not want to hear your complaints about "linux"
[18:54] <Maik> that^
[18:57] <CodeMouse92> Well, this has been a kick, but unlike ELQEYNN, I actually have something worthwhile to do with my life, so I'm going to get back to work.
[18:58] <Maik> have fun CodeMouse92
[18:58]  * ogra notes that plenty of canonical employees are in their respective team channels and do most of their work communication through IRC 
[18:58] <leftyfb> I was going to mention that, but didn't feel it would have contributed to anything
[18:58] <CodeMouse92> ogra: Um...no, Canonical employees largely left for Mattermost quite some time back. A few stick around as community members
[18:59] <ogra> CodeMouse92, ubuntu distro development still happens in #ubuntu-devel
[18:59] <ogra> admittedly we are using mattermost for internal discussion and planning etc
[18:59] <leftyfb> there's no more canonical IRC server?
[18:59] <ogra> nope
[18:59] <ogra> matermost replaced it
[18:59] <CodeMouse92> IRC is basically just a backup in case MM goes kaboom
[19:00] <ogra> for prvate stuff, sure
[19:00] <CodeMouse92> AFAIK, a lot of #ubuntu-devel is because it's involving non-Canonical developers who are integral to Ubuntu.
[19:00] <leftyfb> sad. I enjoyed that aspect when I worked there
[19:12] <ELQEYNN> In a book about "The Psychology of Computer Programming", written in the 1970s, it said that there are "computer bums" and "computer freaks" who often neglected personal hygiene but were well-tolerated around the computer centers ... because if it weren't for them, a lot of important softare systems would have never existed.
[19:13] <ELQEYNN> So, when home computers became available ... what happened?
[19:14] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: I'm going to say one last time. stop
[19:15] <JimBuntu> Seems off-topic
[19:18] <JimBuntu> In which case, there is a thriving community happy to talk about this sort of thing in #linux-offtopic
[19:18] <leftyfb> JimBuntu: they've been told
[19:19] <JimBuntu> Oh, ok
[19:19] <leftyfb> and have never joined
[19:19] <leftyfb> ELQEYNN: type:    /join #ubuntu-offtopic    go to town 
[19:21] <CodeMouse92> leftyfb: No, no, not #u-o...we don't want that convo there either.
[19:21] <CodeMouse92> #linux-offtopic. MUCH better for this sort of conversation.
[19:22] <Maik> ELQEYNN: so now you know the drill.... take it over to #linux-offtopic
[19:22] <Maik> have fun
[19:22] <Maik> you know how to joing channels
[19:23] <Maik> *join
[21:02] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue717 is now available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue717 :D
[21:02] <ogra> wooo !