| === Kilos- is now known as Kilos | ||
| ddstreet | hi all o/ | 15:56 |
|---|---|---|
| * ddstreet coffee refill before mtg starts | 15:56 | |
| nicoz- | o/ | 15:56 |
| mapreri | oh guess I missed another DMB for me :3 | 16:00 |
| rbasak | o/ | 16:00 |
| sil2100 | o/ | 16:00 |
| ddstreet | mapreri indeed, you need to get your application on the schedule ;-) | 16:00 |
| ddstreet | we're still missing teward, you around? | 16:01 |
| ddstreet | ok well let's get started anyway, hopefully he'll join | 16:01 |
| ddstreet | per the new chairing list (which we can discuss during the mtg) i'm up | 16:02 |
| teward | at eye docs | 16:02 |
| ddstreet | #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board | 16:02 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 16:02:23 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 16:02 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 16:02 |
| teward | but can weigh in on apps | 16:02 |
| teward | so o/ | 16:02 |
| ddstreet | let's start with the chairing list, for members who haven't caught up on email after the holidays yet | 16:02 |
| ddstreet | (even though it's later in the agenda, hopefully it won't take long) | 16:03 |
| ddstreet | #topic DMB rotating chair list | 16:03 |
| ddstreet | #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-December/001845.html | 16:03 |
| ddstreet | the replies were positive, so I updated the agenda page | 16:03 |
| ddstreet | does any member have any objections to bring up to the new chair list? | 16:03 |
| ddstreet | rbasak do you want to be included in the chair list? | 16:04 |
| ddstreet | currently it's just sil2100 and myself | 16:04 |
| rbasak | I'm happy to chair but can't when I have a concurrent meeting, like right now. | 16:04 |
| rbasak | I don't know how that works with a specific list and expectations on such a list. | 16:04 |
| ddstreet | ack, let's leave you off the chair list then, but i dont think anyone will have any problem if you want to chair on any specific mtg date and volunteer to | 16:05 |
| ddstreet | ok moving on, no previous action items to review (besides long-term ones) | 16:05 |
| ddstreet | #topic PPU application from Luca Boccassi | 16:05 |
| ddstreet | bluca you around? | 16:06 |
| bluca | hi | 16:06 |
| ddstreet | Hello! can you introduce yourself? | 16:06 |
| bluca | sure! | 16:06 |
| ddstreet | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bluca/PerPackageUploaderApplication | 16:06 |
| bluca | I put details on that wiki link, but in short: I'm a software eng by trade, currently working at msft | 16:06 |
| bluca | been a debian developer since ~2017 with upload rights | 16:06 |
| bluca | been working with various folks from Canonical on a few packages, like src:dpdk, and would like to step up the collaboration and effort with PPU | 16:07 |
| bluca | that's the short version :-) | 16:07 |
| ddstreet | thanks! I'll give some time for rbasak and sil2100 to review the application details | 16:07 |
| ddstreet | and as you saw, I did already review everything over email and provided my +1 on the ML | 16:08 |
| rbasak | bluca: thank you for looking after you packages in Ubuntu! I'm concerned though that there's a mismatch of expectations in your application though. Giving upload access to DDs for their packages in Ubuntu isn't automatic. It's predicated on the applicant having a demonstrated understanding of Ubuntu-specific processes. But I don't see much (if any) evidence of that in your application. Is it your | 16:08 |
| rbasak | view that you meet this requirement already? | 16:08 |
| ddstreet | oh and time for teward to review application as well, sorry teward i just saw you joined | 16:08 |
| bluca | I believe so - now I'm not the greatest expert (yet) but I have been working with other folks like cpaelzer who constantly show me the ropes w.r.t. ubuntu-specific processes | 16:09 |
| bluca | I do u nderstand the different requirements, schedule cadence, timing, channels that ubuntu has w.r.t. debian, for example | 16:09 |
| bluca | (eg: sru processes for stable fixes) | 16:09 |
| bluca | I do not plan to go gun-blasting, but start slowly and asking for help when in doubt | 16:11 |
| rbasak | https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Boccassi*&sponsoree_search=name is the list of sponsored uploads you have already. | 16:11 |
| rbasak | There I see one backport, and a single SRU that took two uploads to get right I think? | 16:11 |
| sil2100 | I'm still reading the application, if anything. I have a concurrent meeting right now + just got back from holidays | 16:11 |
| cpaelzer | Saw the highlight, indeed I can confirm that bluca does really well whatever he does. And TBH the ubuntu-specifics I told him he knows, and I'm very sure that he'd ask if he runs into something unknown. | 16:12 |
| bluca | yes - given cpaelzer has full upload rights, he does the uploads himself when we work on src:dpdk | 16:12 |
| rbasak | In the SRU bug, it looks like your upload needing quite a bit of correcting on the Ubuntu-specific procedural details - like you didn't know them at all at the time. | 16:12 |
| cpaelzer | That isn't a core-dev application where we expect that he knows all forward and backward, I'm rather confident he will do really well with what he applies for here | 16:12 |
| rbasak | eg. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azure-cli/+bug/1897586/comments/4 | 16:12 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1897586 in azure-cli (Ubuntu Focal) "azure-cli: global import of antlr4 for optional sub-feature" [Undecided, Fix Released] | 16:12 |
| rbasak | I very much appreciate your contributions to Ubuntu here. | 16:13 |
| bluca | yes - all learning experiences :) | 16:13 |
| rbasak | But the usual expectation is to see a track record of generally correct Ubuntu uploads with respect to Ubuntu-specific process. I don't see that at all here. | 16:13 |
| rbasak | So feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken or missing something, but I would like to see that track record in the form of sponsored uploads before granting this request. | 16:14 |
| bluca | sure, it will require annoying cpaelzer a bit more :-P but it can happen | 16:15 |
| sil2100 | I guess bluca is a debian developer, right? | 16:15 |
| bluca | y | 16:15 |
| rbasak | What I generally suggest is to deliberately make the new developer prepare all the uploads. | 16:16 |
| rbasak | And get them sponsored. | 16:16 |
| rbasak | That helps build up a demonstrated track record and helps give everyone else confidence about their understanding too. | 16:16 |
| rbasak | I appreciate you're a DD so I have no concern about the quality of your work in general - this is just for the Ubuntu-specific bits. | 16:16 |
| bluca | the way we usually work on src:dpdk is that I upload to Debian and Christian to Ubuntu to make things faster - but there's no harm in me doing a few more sponsored uploads for the coming LTS changes and so on | 16:17 |
| bluca | so that's not a problem at all | 16:17 |
| rbasak | I would prefer that as it would force you to do all the Ubuntu-specific bits yourself, which would demonstrate that you do understand them. | 16:18 |
| bluca | makes sense | 16:18 |
| rbasak | Anyway, that's just my opinion. I only have one vote :) | 16:19 |
| rbasak | And I'd like to reiterate that I very much appreciate and value your contribution. Just that I'd prefer the Ubuntu-specific bits that you do to be reviewed until you have a demonstrated record of getting them right, and that's what's missing at the moment. The mechanism we use for that is sponsorship :) | 16:20 |
| ddstreet | teward sil2100 any q from you? | 16:20 |
| sil2100 | bluca: regarding that: sorry if this was already answered somewhere, but did you before work on any of the packages from the Ubuntu POV? Like, checking proposed-migration for it, preparing the paperwork etc.? | 16:20 |
| bluca | in terms of ubuntu-specific paperwork, I worked on it directly myself only a couple of times that were linked above - getting some late bug fixes in 20.04 before it shipped, and getting a new backport in focal | 16:22 |
| sil2100 | bluca: to know a bit more if you'd be able to shepheard packages by yourself - once you upload some package to, let's say, Ubuntu jammy, and you see that your package is stuck in jammy-proposed and not moving: how would you investigate? | 16:23 |
| bluca | (maybe it was after it shipped? there was some bug in openconnect, memory is faint at this point) | 16:24 |
| sil2100 | *shepherd | 16:25 |
| bluca | it would depend if it's a new (binary: or source: new) package I guess - if it is, if I remember correctly it's at that step that it needs an ack, like ftp-new in debian | 16:26 |
| bluca | if it's not new, I'd go and look at the process on the wiki, as I don't remember it off the top of my head - and if I get stuck, I'd ask for help from the friendly collaborators on irc :-) | 16:26 |
| bluca | I can't remember if it's at that stage or another that autopkgtest gates migration, but that's one of the obvious things to look at | 16:27 |
| ddstreet | teward sil2100 rbasak any further questions or comments? | 16:29 |
| rbasak | No more questions from me thanks | 16:29 |
| ddstreet | ok let's move to a vote then | 16:30 |
| teward | none from me sil and robie asked wbat i was gonna ask | 16:30 |
| teward | fyi still on via my phone so replies are slower | 16:30 |
| ddstreet | #vote Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights | 16:31 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights | 16:31 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname') | 16:31 |
| rbasak | -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! | 16:31 |
| meetingology | -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! received from rbasak | 16:31 |
| ddstreet | +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning | 16:31 |
| meetingology | +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning received from ddstreet | 16:31 |
| teward | -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. | 16:33 |
| meetingology | -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. received from teward | 16:33 |
| teward | sil2100: | 16:33 |
| sil2100 | +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing | 16:33 |
| meetingology | +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing received from sil2100 | 16:33 |
| ddstreet | #endvote | 16:34 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights | 16:34 |
| meetingology | Votes for: 1, Votes against: 2, Abstentions: 1 | 16:34 |
| meetingology | Motion denied | 16:34 |
| ddstreet | so *technically* the vote isn't denied, since we are missing 3 members | 16:34 |
| bluca | it's ok, I can do sponsored uploads for a couple of months and resubmit :) | 16:35 |
| ddstreet | but it would require a unanimous +1 from the remaining 3 members to approve, and 2 of them are not active anymore | 16:35 |
| ddstreet | yep i think that's the best course of action :) | 16:35 |
| bluca | thanks for the feedback! | 16:35 |
| teward | which brings me to a q at AOB ;P | 16:35 |
| teward | but i will wait for that one | 16:35 |
| ddstreet | i dont think we have anything else, the ML item was discussed at the top | 16:35 |
| ddstreet | #topic AOB | 16:35 |
| ddstreet | teward all yours! :) | 16:35 |
| teward | given two of our members are inactive - one for well over a year at this point - do we need to start looking @ restaffing for the inactives? | 16:36 |
| teward | or at least discuss how to handle this case. | 16:37 |
| ddstreet | since our recent rule for attendance was approved late last year, those 2 members will become 'inactive' at the first meeting in Feb | 16:37 |
| teward | since we're here i bring it uo as a questio but not needing today's action | 16:37 |
| ddstreet | meaning, yes, we should plan to replace them ASAP after the 2022-02-07 meeting | 16:38 |
| teward | especially since i am heading back in to the eye doc's chair now. o/ | 16:38 |
| sil2100 | bluca: from my POV, I guess even if you'd just take a look at our ProposedMigration process, try to play around with it a bit, it should be a +1 then ;) | 16:38 |
| sil2100 | (at least from me) | 16:38 |
| teward | ddstreet: 👍 | 16:38 |
| sil2100 | ddstreet: +1 | 16:38 |
| ddstreet | teward i can add an action item for the 2022-02-07 mtg to schedule a new vote for their seats | 16:39 |
| ddstreet | #action ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats | 16:40 |
| meetingology | ACTION: ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats | 16:40 |
| teward | ddstreet: yep that will work | 16:40 |
| ddstreet | ok anythign else from anyone? | 16:40 |
| ddstreet | let's call it then | 16:41 |
| ddstreet | #endmeeting | 16:41 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 16:41:35 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-01-10-16.02.moin.txt | 16:41 |
| ddstreet | thanks all o/ | 16:41 |
| sil2100 | Thanks o/ | 16:43 |
| === genii-core is now known as genii | ||
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