/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/01/10/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== Kilos- is now known as Kilos
ddstreethi all o/15:56
* ddstreet coffee refill before mtg starts15:56
nicoz-o/15:56
maprerioh guess I missed another DMB for me :316:00
rbasako/16:00
sil2100o/16:00
ddstreetmapreri indeed, you need to get your application on the schedule ;-)16:00
ddstreetwe're still missing teward, you around?16:01
ddstreetok well let's get started anyway, hopefully he'll join16:01
ddstreetper the new chairing list (which we can discuss during the mtg) i'm up16:02
tewardat eye docs16:02
ddstreet#startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board16:02
meetingologyMeeting started at 16:02:23 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology16:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick16:02
tewardbut can weigh in on apps16:02
tewardso o/16:02
ddstreetlet's start with the chairing list, for members who haven't caught up on email after the holidays yet16:02
ddstreet(even though it's later in the agenda, hopefully it won't take long)16:03
ddstreet#topic DMB rotating chair list16:03
ddstreet#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-December/001845.html16:03
ddstreetthe replies were positive, so I updated the agenda page16:03
ddstreetdoes any member have any objections to bring up to the new chair list?16:03
ddstreetrbasak do you want to be included in the chair list?16:04
ddstreetcurrently it's just sil2100 and myself16:04
rbasakI'm happy to chair but can't when I have a concurrent meeting, like right now.16:04
rbasakI don't know how that works with a specific list and expectations on such a list.16:04
ddstreetack, let's leave you off the chair list then, but i dont think anyone will have any problem if you want to chair on any specific mtg date and volunteer to16:05
ddstreetok moving on, no previous action items to review (besides long-term ones)16:05
ddstreet#topic PPU application from Luca Boccassi16:05
ddstreetbluca you around?16:06
blucahi16:06
ddstreetHello! can you introduce yourself?16:06
blucasure!16:06
ddstreet#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bluca/PerPackageUploaderApplication16:06
blucaI put details on that wiki link, but in short: I'm a software eng by trade, currently working at msft16:06
blucabeen a debian developer since ~2017 with upload rights16:06
blucabeen working with various folks from Canonical on a few packages, like src:dpdk, and would like to step up the collaboration and effort with PPU16:07
blucathat's the short version :-)16:07
ddstreetthanks! I'll give some time for rbasak and sil2100 to review the application details16:07
ddstreetand as you saw, I did already review everything over email and provided my +1 on the ML16:08
rbasakbluca: thank you for looking after you packages in Ubuntu! I'm concerned though that there's a mismatch of expectations in your application though. Giving upload access to DDs for their packages in Ubuntu isn't automatic. It's predicated on the applicant having a demonstrated understanding of Ubuntu-specific processes. But I don't see much (if any) evidence of that in your application. Is it your16:08
rbasakview that you meet this requirement already?16:08
ddstreetoh and time for teward to review application as well, sorry teward i just saw you joined16:08
blucaI believe so - now I'm not the greatest expert (yet) but I have been working with other folks like cpaelzer who constantly show me the ropes w.r.t. ubuntu-specific processes16:09
blucaI do u nderstand the different requirements, schedule cadence, timing, channels that ubuntu has w.r.t. debian, for example16:09
bluca(eg: sru processes for stable fixes)16:09
blucaI do not plan to go gun-blasting, but start slowly and asking for help when in doubt16:11
rbasakhttps://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Boccassi*&sponsoree_search=name is the list of sponsored uploads you have already.16:11
rbasakThere I see one backport, and a single SRU that took two uploads to get right I think?16:11
sil2100I'm still reading the application, if anything. I have a concurrent meeting right now + just got back from holidays16:11
cpaelzerSaw the highlight, indeed I can confirm that bluca does really well whatever he does. And TBH the ubuntu-specifics I told him he knows, and I'm very sure that he'd ask if he runs into something unknown.16:12
blucayes - given cpaelzer has full upload rights, he does the uploads himself when we work on src:dpdk16:12
rbasakIn the SRU bug, it looks like your upload needing quite a bit of correcting on the Ubuntu-specific procedural details - like you didn't know them at all at the time.16:12
cpaelzerThat isn't a core-dev application where we expect that he knows all forward and backward, I'm rather confident he will do really well with what he applies for here16:12
rbasakeg. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azure-cli/+bug/1897586/comments/416:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1897586 in azure-cli (Ubuntu Focal) "azure-cli: global import of antlr4 for optional sub-feature" [Undecided, Fix Released]16:12
rbasakI very much appreciate your contributions to Ubuntu here.16:13
blucayes - all learning experiences :)16:13
rbasakBut the usual expectation is to see a track record of generally correct Ubuntu uploads with respect to Ubuntu-specific process. I don't see that at all here.16:13
rbasakSo feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken or missing something, but I would like to see that track record in the form of sponsored uploads before granting this request.16:14
blucasure, it will require annoying cpaelzer a bit more :-P but it can happen16:15
sil2100I guess bluca is a debian developer, right?16:15
blucay16:15
rbasakWhat I generally suggest is to deliberately make the new developer prepare all the uploads.16:16
rbasakAnd get them sponsored.16:16
rbasakThat helps build up a demonstrated track record and helps give everyone else confidence about their understanding too.16:16
rbasakI appreciate you're a DD so I have no concern about the quality of your work in general - this is just for the Ubuntu-specific bits.16:16
blucathe way we usually work on src:dpdk is that I upload to Debian and Christian to Ubuntu to make things faster - but there's no harm in me doing a few more sponsored uploads for the coming LTS changes and so on16:17
blucaso that's not a problem at all16:17
rbasakI would prefer that as it would force you to do all the Ubuntu-specific bits yourself, which would demonstrate that you do understand them.16:18
blucamakes sense16:18
rbasakAnyway, that's just my opinion. I only have one vote :)16:19
rbasakAnd I'd like to reiterate that I very much appreciate and value your contribution. Just that I'd prefer the Ubuntu-specific bits that you do to be reviewed until you have a demonstrated record of getting them right, and that's what's missing at the moment. The mechanism we use for that is sponsorship :)16:20
ddstreetteward sil2100 any q from you?16:20
sil2100bluca: regarding that: sorry if this was already answered somewhere, but did you before work on any of the packages from the Ubuntu POV? Like, checking proposed-migration for it, preparing the paperwork etc.?16:20
blucain terms of ubuntu-specific paperwork, I worked on it directly myself only a couple of times that were linked above - getting some late bug fixes in 20.04 before it shipped, and getting a new backport in focal16:22
sil2100bluca: to know a bit more if you'd be able to shepheard packages by yourself - once you upload some package to, let's say, Ubuntu jammy, and you see that your package is stuck in jammy-proposed and not moving: how would you investigate?16:23
bluca(maybe it was after it shipped? there was some bug in openconnect, memory is faint at this point)16:24
sil2100*shepherd16:25
blucait would depend if it's a new (binary: or source: new) package I guess - if it is, if I remember correctly it's at that step that it needs an ack, like ftp-new in debian16:26
blucaif it's not new, I'd go and look at the process on the wiki, as I don't remember it off the top of my head - and if I get stuck, I'd ask for help from the friendly collaborators on irc :-)16:26
blucaI can't remember if it's at that stage or another that autopkgtest gates migration, but that's one of the obvious things to look at16:27
ddstreetteward sil2100 rbasak any further questions or comments?16:29
rbasakNo more questions from me thanks16:29
ddstreetok let's move to a vote then16:30
tewardnone from me sil and robie asked wbat i was gonna ask16:30
tewardfyi still on via my phone so replies are slower16:30
ddstreet#vote Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights16:31
meetingologyPlease vote on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights16:31
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')16:31
rbasak-1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future!16:31
meetingology-1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! received from rbasak16:31
ddstreet+1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning16:31
meetingology+1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning received from ddstreet16:31
teward-1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help.  I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record.16:33
meetingology-1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help.  I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. received from teward16:33
tewardsil2100:16:33
sil2100+0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing16:33
meetingology+0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing received from sil210016:33
ddstreet#endvote16:34
meetingologyVoting ended on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights16:34
meetingologyVotes for: 1, Votes against: 2, Abstentions: 116:34
meetingologyMotion denied16:34
ddstreetso *technically* the vote isn't denied, since we are missing 3 members16:34
blucait's ok, I can do sponsored uploads for a couple of months and resubmit :)16:35
ddstreetbut it would require a unanimous +1 from the remaining 3 members to approve, and 2 of them are not active anymore16:35
ddstreetyep i think that's the best course of action :)16:35
blucathanks for the feedback!16:35
tewardwhich brings me to a q at AOB ;P16:35
tewardbut i will wait for that one16:35
ddstreeti dont think we have anything else, the ML item was discussed at the top16:35
ddstreet#topic AOB16:35
ddstreetteward all yours! :)16:35
tewardgiven two of our members are inactive - one for well over a year at this point - do we need to start looking @ restaffing for the inactives?16:36
tewardor at least discuss how to handle this case.16:37
ddstreetsince our recent rule for attendance was approved late last year, those 2 members will become 'inactive' at the first meeting in Feb16:37
tewardsince we're here i bring it uo as a questio  but not needing today's action16:37
ddstreetmeaning, yes, we should plan to replace them ASAP after the 2022-02-07 meeting16:38
tewardespecially since i am heading back in to the eye doc's chair now.  o/16:38
sil2100bluca: from my POV, I guess even if you'd just take a look at our ProposedMigration process, try to play around with it a bit, it should be a +1 then ;)16:38
sil2100(at least from me)16:38
tewardddstreet: 👍16:38
sil2100ddstreet: +116:38
ddstreetteward i can add an action item for the 2022-02-07 mtg to schedule a new vote for their seats16:39
ddstreet#action ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats16:40
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats16:40
tewardddstreet: yep that will work16:40
ddstreetok anythign else from anyone?16:40
ddstreetlet's call it then16:41
ddstreet#endmeeting16:41
meetingologyMeeting ended at 16:41:35 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-01-10-16.02.moin.txt16:41
ddstreetthanks all o/16:41
sil2100Thanks o/16:43
=== genii-core is now known as genii

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