=== Kilos- is now known as Kilos [15:56] hi all o/ [15:56] * ddstreet coffee refill before mtg starts [15:56] o/ [16:00] oh guess I missed another DMB for me :3 [16:00] o/ [16:00] o/ [16:00] mapreri indeed, you need to get your application on the schedule ;-) [16:01] we're still missing teward, you around? [16:01] ok well let's get started anyway, hopefully he'll join [16:02] per the new chairing list (which we can discuss during the mtg) i'm up [16:02] at eye docs [16:02] #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board [16:02] Meeting started at 16:02:23 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:02] Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick [16:02] but can weigh in on apps [16:02] so o/ [16:02] let's start with the chairing list, for members who haven't caught up on email after the holidays yet [16:03] (even though it's later in the agenda, hopefully it won't take long) [16:03] #topic DMB rotating chair list [16:03] #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-December/001845.html [16:03] the replies were positive, so I updated the agenda page [16:03] does any member have any objections to bring up to the new chair list? [16:04] rbasak do you want to be included in the chair list? [16:04] currently it's just sil2100 and myself [16:04] I'm happy to chair but can't when I have a concurrent meeting, like right now. [16:04] I don't know how that works with a specific list and expectations on such a list. [16:05] ack, let's leave you off the chair list then, but i dont think anyone will have any problem if you want to chair on any specific mtg date and volunteer to [16:05] ok moving on, no previous action items to review (besides long-term ones) [16:05] #topic PPU application from Luca Boccassi [16:06] bluca you around? [16:06] hi [16:06] Hello! can you introduce yourself? [16:06] sure! [16:06] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bluca/PerPackageUploaderApplication [16:06] I put details on that wiki link, but in short: I'm a software eng by trade, currently working at msft [16:06] been a debian developer since ~2017 with upload rights [16:07] been working with various folks from Canonical on a few packages, like src:dpdk, and would like to step up the collaboration and effort with PPU [16:07] that's the short version :-) [16:07] thanks! I'll give some time for rbasak and sil2100 to review the application details [16:08] and as you saw, I did already review everything over email and provided my +1 on the ML [16:08] bluca: thank you for looking after you packages in Ubuntu! I'm concerned though that there's a mismatch of expectations in your application though. Giving upload access to DDs for their packages in Ubuntu isn't automatic. It's predicated on the applicant having a demonstrated understanding of Ubuntu-specific processes. But I don't see much (if any) evidence of that in your application. Is it your [16:08] view that you meet this requirement already? [16:08] oh and time for teward to review application as well, sorry teward i just saw you joined [16:09] I believe so - now I'm not the greatest expert (yet) but I have been working with other folks like cpaelzer who constantly show me the ropes w.r.t. ubuntu-specific processes [16:09] I do u nderstand the different requirements, schedule cadence, timing, channels that ubuntu has w.r.t. debian, for example [16:09] (eg: sru processes for stable fixes) [16:11] I do not plan to go gun-blasting, but start slowly and asking for help when in doubt [16:11] https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Boccassi*&sponsoree_search=name is the list of sponsored uploads you have already. [16:11] There I see one backport, and a single SRU that took two uploads to get right I think? [16:11] I'm still reading the application, if anything. I have a concurrent meeting right now + just got back from holidays [16:12] Saw the highlight, indeed I can confirm that bluca does really well whatever he does. And TBH the ubuntu-specifics I told him he knows, and I'm very sure that he'd ask if he runs into something unknown. [16:12] yes - given cpaelzer has full upload rights, he does the uploads himself when we work on src:dpdk [16:12] In the SRU bug, it looks like your upload needing quite a bit of correcting on the Ubuntu-specific procedural details - like you didn't know them at all at the time. [16:12] That isn't a core-dev application where we expect that he knows all forward and backward, I'm rather confident he will do really well with what he applies for here [16:12] eg. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azure-cli/+bug/1897586/comments/4 [16:12] Launchpad bug 1897586 in azure-cli (Ubuntu Focal) "azure-cli: global import of antlr4 for optional sub-feature" [Undecided, Fix Released] [16:13] I very much appreciate your contributions to Ubuntu here. [16:13] yes - all learning experiences :) [16:13] But the usual expectation is to see a track record of generally correct Ubuntu uploads with respect to Ubuntu-specific process. I don't see that at all here. [16:14] So feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken or missing something, but I would like to see that track record in the form of sponsored uploads before granting this request. [16:15] sure, it will require annoying cpaelzer a bit more :-P but it can happen [16:15] I guess bluca is a debian developer, right? [16:15] y [16:16] What I generally suggest is to deliberately make the new developer prepare all the uploads. [16:16] And get them sponsored. [16:16] That helps build up a demonstrated track record and helps give everyone else confidence about their understanding too. [16:16] I appreciate you're a DD so I have no concern about the quality of your work in general - this is just for the Ubuntu-specific bits. [16:17] the way we usually work on src:dpdk is that I upload to Debian and Christian to Ubuntu to make things faster - but there's no harm in me doing a few more sponsored uploads for the coming LTS changes and so on [16:17] so that's not a problem at all [16:18] I would prefer that as it would force you to do all the Ubuntu-specific bits yourself, which would demonstrate that you do understand them. [16:18] makes sense [16:19] Anyway, that's just my opinion. I only have one vote :) [16:20] And I'd like to reiterate that I very much appreciate and value your contribution. Just that I'd prefer the Ubuntu-specific bits that you do to be reviewed until you have a demonstrated record of getting them right, and that's what's missing at the moment. The mechanism we use for that is sponsorship :) [16:20] teward sil2100 any q from you? [16:20] bluca: regarding that: sorry if this was already answered somewhere, but did you before work on any of the packages from the Ubuntu POV? Like, checking proposed-migration for it, preparing the paperwork etc.? [16:22] in terms of ubuntu-specific paperwork, I worked on it directly myself only a couple of times that were linked above - getting some late bug fixes in 20.04 before it shipped, and getting a new backport in focal [16:23] bluca: to know a bit more if you'd be able to shepheard packages by yourself - once you upload some package to, let's say, Ubuntu jammy, and you see that your package is stuck in jammy-proposed and not moving: how would you investigate? [16:24] (maybe it was after it shipped? there was some bug in openconnect, memory is faint at this point) [16:25] *shepherd [16:26] it would depend if it's a new (binary: or source: new) package I guess - if it is, if I remember correctly it's at that step that it needs an ack, like ftp-new in debian [16:26] if it's not new, I'd go and look at the process on the wiki, as I don't remember it off the top of my head - and if I get stuck, I'd ask for help from the friendly collaborators on irc :-) [16:27] I can't remember if it's at that stage or another that autopkgtest gates migration, but that's one of the obvious things to look at [16:29] teward sil2100 rbasak any further questions or comments? [16:29] No more questions from me thanks [16:30] ok let's move to a vote then [16:30] none from me sil and robie asked wbat i was gonna ask [16:30] fyi still on via my phone so replies are slower [16:31] #vote Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights [16:31] Please vote on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights [16:31] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname') [16:31] -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! [16:31] -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! received from rbasak [16:31] +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning [16:31] +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning received from ddstreet [16:33] -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. [16:33] -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. received from teward [16:33] sil2100: [16:33] +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing [16:33] +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing received from sil2100 [16:34] #endvote [16:34] Voting ended on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights [16:34] Votes for: 1, Votes against: 2, Abstentions: 1 [16:34] Motion denied [16:34] so *technically* the vote isn't denied, since we are missing 3 members [16:35] it's ok, I can do sponsored uploads for a couple of months and resubmit :) [16:35] but it would require a unanimous +1 from the remaining 3 members to approve, and 2 of them are not active anymore [16:35] yep i think that's the best course of action :) [16:35] thanks for the feedback! [16:35] which brings me to a q at AOB ;P [16:35] but i will wait for that one [16:35] i dont think we have anything else, the ML item was discussed at the top [16:35] #topic AOB [16:35] teward all yours! :) [16:36] given two of our members are inactive - one for well over a year at this point - do we need to start looking @ restaffing for the inactives? [16:37] or at least discuss how to handle this case. [16:37] since our recent rule for attendance was approved late last year, those 2 members will become 'inactive' at the first meeting in Feb [16:37] since we're here i bring it uo as a questio but not needing today's action [16:38] meaning, yes, we should plan to replace them ASAP after the 2022-02-07 meeting [16:38] especially since i am heading back in to the eye doc's chair now. o/ [16:38] bluca: from my POV, I guess even if you'd just take a look at our ProposedMigration process, try to play around with it a bit, it should be a +1 then ;) [16:38] (at least from me) [16:38] ddstreet: 👍 [16:38] ddstreet: +1 [16:39] teward i can add an action item for the 2022-02-07 mtg to schedule a new vote for their seats [16:40] #action ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats [16:40] ACTION: ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats [16:40] ddstreet: yep that will work [16:40] ok anythign else from anyone? [16:41] let's call it then [16:41] #endmeeting [16:41] Meeting ended at 16:41:35 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-01-10-16.02.moin.txt [16:41] thanks all o/ [16:43] Thanks o/ === genii-core is now known as genii