[00:00] <leftyfb> Oh, you typod it
[00:01] <leftyfb> It’s elpa-eproject not elpa-project
[00:03] <bobdobbs> ok, this is where I'm at: http://pastie.org/p/2L732MezmVPmtGQQ2v6BSx
[00:04] <bobdobbs> whoops. still got one dupe in there
[00:05] <leftyfb> You still didn’t specify elpa-eproject
[00:06] <bobdobbs> leftyfb: omg
[00:06] <bobdobbs> that... actually seems to do it!
[00:06] <bobdobbs> leftyfb: thank you
[00:06] <leftyfb> bobdobbs: sudo apt autoremove # don’t hit enter if it asks you to confirm. What does it tell you it wants to remove?
[00:07] <bobdobbs> http://pastie.org/p/5i2guOjOupc4GPN4ujMf8u
[00:08] <bobdobbs> leftyfb: should I remove that stuff?
[00:08] <leftyfb> Yup, remove all of that
[00:08] <bobdobbs> kk
[00:09] <leftyfb> Then put the PPA back and then install ppa-purge and run the ppa-purge command posted earlier
[00:09] <bobdobbs> ok
[00:10] <leftyfb> You’ll want to remove everything installed from the ppa otherwise you could very well just end up right back here again
[00:11] <bobdobbs> ok, done
[00:11] <bobdobbs> can I breath now?
[00:12] <bobdobbs> I swear it's been two hours since I inhaled
[00:13] <bobdobbs> Seriously though, after all that is it ok if I install emacs27 via snap?
[00:13] <leftyfb> You added the PPA back and ran the ppa-purge command? Did it remove any packages ?
[00:14] <leftyfb> If it’s available via snap, go for it
[00:14] <bobdobbs> yep - I re-added the PPA files back into the sources.list.d directory, then did "apt-get update". Then did ppa-purge on them
[00:14] <bobdobbs> then did "apt-get update" again
[00:17] <bobdobbs> leftyfb: I'm gonna jump off channel for bit. I want to stop running emacs while I look into reinstalling it. But I'm using emacs as my irc client.
[00:17] <bobdobbs> leftyfb: so I'll be off-channel for a while. Thank you very much for your help!
[00:17] <oerheks> i would get the snap, 28 in edge https://snapcraft.io/emacs
[00:18] <bobdobbs> oerheks: for some reason I have the idea that 28 is not considered stable
[00:20] <leftyfb> Can’t be any worse than the 27 they had installed
[00:22] <oerheks> i have given worse advice :-D
[00:22] <oerheks> !ot > oerheks
[00:40] <ogra> oerheks, the 28 snap is in the edge channel... edge is typically not for production ..
[00:40] <ogra> stable has 27.2
[01:14] <figtree93> I am getting a new laptop soon, I intend to install 22.04 lts and stick with lts when it is released. Would it be best to install 20.04, 21.10 or the 22.04 daily build while I wait?
[01:18] <rfm> figtree93, I cannot say what is "best",   I was in a similar situaltion two years ago, although somewhat later in the year, and installed 20.04 and upgraded it along.  It has worked well.
[01:20] <rfm> figtree93, the main risk is that there are problems in 22.04 that will make the installation troublesome, if that risk bothers you use one of the supported paths.
[01:20] <sarnold> figtree93: it feels a bit early to me to use the 22.04 dailies -- I'm less sure about the other two. 21.10 is more likely to have wider hardware support, 20.04 is more likely to be 'solid', if it works for you at all :)
[01:21] <oerheks> go wild; zfs and 22.04 beta
[01:22] <oerheks> zfs gives a snapshot feature
[01:24] <oerheks> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/using-zfs-snapshots-clones#1-overview
[01:24] <figtree93> oerheks does 22.04 use zfs by default?
[01:25] <oerheks> no, i think it is an option hidden in the installer
[01:25] <figtree93> I see, so in other words I would have to reinstall when 22.04 hits anyways if I wanted the snapshot feature is what you are saying?
[01:25] <figtree93> if I didnt go 22.04 daily now
[01:26] <sarnold> I think even 20.04 offers zfs in the desktop installer
[01:26] <oerheks> no, when LTS arrives, you would get the same packages, if any changes
[01:26] <figtree93> Oh right, he means I can use snapshot if its unstable or whatever... I'm with you now
[01:26] <oerheks> sarnold, yes, but a bit hidden https://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=2020&image=ubuntu_2004_zfs1_med
[01:27] <sarnold> oerheks: hah I'll say..
[01:29] <figtree93> That picture shows experimental, is it still experimental in 22.04?
[01:31] <oerheks> if it appears in LTS, i think it is pretty stable.
[01:32] <figtree93> Alright, thanks for the advice. Will try 22.04 with zfs and move back to 20.04/21.10 if I am having issues.
[01:33] <oerheks> you might want to stick to lvm
[01:34] <oerheks> pretty good article https://frameboxxindore.com/linux/your-question-should-i-use-zfs-ubuntu.html
[02:22] <axsuul> I'm on 20.04 and kernel 5.11. I'd like to update it to 5.13 or 5.15. Would it be better to update Ubuntu to something like 21.10 for a newer kernel or update the kernel in 20.04?
[02:23] <oerheks> there is !HWE for that
[02:23] <oerheks> !hwe
[02:23] <axsuul> oerheks : I have used the HWE on 20.04 but it seems to only have gotten me up to 5.11
[02:24] <oerheks> you would end up with 5.13 i guess
[02:24] <axsuul> I did it with `apt-get install linux-generic-hwe-20.04`
[02:25] <oerheks> oh right https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe-5.11
[02:26] <Bashing-om> !edge
[02:30] <Bashing-om> !info linux-generic-hwe-20.04-edge
[02:35] <axsuul> ubottu : nice! will give that a try, thanks
[05:15] <mannequin> so i route all my traffic trought tor
[05:15] <mannequin> sometimes i need to restart tor service
[05:16] <mannequin> and my unity stops being responsive and i need to restart gdm
[05:16] <mannequin> any fix to this?
[05:16] <mannequin> maybe i should restart whole networking instead?
[06:08] <mannequin> KBar: hey
[06:08] <mannequin> KBar: so i started routig all my traffic via tor and sometimes i need to restart the tor service and then my unity stops being resposive
[06:09] <mannequin> is there any fix for this? because it basically means i need to restart gdm
[06:09] <KBar> mannequin: Unity as in the desktop environment?
[06:09] <mannequin> that is correct
[06:10] <KBar> It's not supported by Canonical anymore. It's currently maintained by community members.
[06:10] <KBar> mannequin: I don't know if there's a fix. Sorry.
[06:13] <mannequin> well i use 20.04
[06:13] <mannequin> i'm not sure is that called unity or just gnome 3
[06:14] <mannequin> ok that's just gnome now
[06:14] <KBar> `echo $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP`
[06:15] <KBar> echo $XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP
[06:15] <KBar> What's the output?
[06:15] <mannequin> ubuntu:GNOME
[06:15] <KBar> Then it's GNOME Shell.
[06:16] <mannequin> ok so is there any fix for that?
[06:16] <KBar> mannequin: just use Tor Browser.
[06:16] <mannequin> maybe i should restart whole networking instead?
[06:16] <KBar> Maybe.
[06:16] <mannequin> i used to use tor browser but i decided to route everything trought tor
[06:34] <movo> mannequin, should freeballing here. maybe turn on airplane mode before restart the service?
[06:35] <mannequin> will try that
[06:35] <mannequin> thanks
[07:01] <Denislav> server irc.all4.net
[07:04] <nicoz-> :|
[07:04] <nicoz-> o/
[07:14] <ELQEYNN> mannequin would you consider upgrading to 20.10?
[07:16] <KBar> mannequin: do NOT upgrade to 20.10. It's EoL and no longer supported.
[07:17] <mannequin> KBar: huh? I never meant to
[07:17] <mannequin> Im staying on 20.04 untill 22.04 gets usable
[07:17] <KBar> mannequin: I'm just warning you, since ELQEYNN asked/suggested doing so..
[07:18] <KBar> mannequin: yes. This was my next suggestion. Wait until April and upgrade then.
[07:18] <mannequin> I understand
[07:19] <ELQEYNN> Kbar, what's your warning?
[07:19] <ELQEYNN> EoL?
[07:19] <ELQEYNN> end of life?
[07:19] <KBar> ELQEYNN: please don't recommend users to install or upgrade to deprecated software.
[07:20] <ELQEYNN> And 20.04 is not deprecated?
[07:20] <mannequin> It is lts
[07:20] <KBar> ELQEYNN: no. It's supported until 2025.
[07:21] <KBar> ELQEYNN: for more information, visit: https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
[07:21] <ELQEYNN> a higher number is deprecated ... Hmm.
[07:22] <ELQEYNN> And the lower number is still supported for a few more years. Hmm...
[07:22] <geirha> 20.04 is LTS (Long Term Support)
[07:22] <KBar> ELQEYNN: I think you need to inform yourself and be a bit humble, my friend.
[07:22] <geirha> LTS is supported for 5 years, regular releases only 9 months
[07:23] <KBar> ELQEYNN: otherwise, do not provide false information.
[07:23] <ELQEYNN> sorry.
[07:24] <ELQEYNN> Does 20.10 have a bug in it?
[07:25] <geirha> No more than usual
[07:29] <ELQEYNN> 22.04is the lateest release, accordidng to https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle.
[07:30] <ELQEYNN> That's twenty-two .
[07:31] <JackFrost> That's the current dev release, not LTS.
[07:31] <JackFrost> April, 2022 hasn't happened yet.
[07:31] <geirha>  it will be the next LTS release when it gets released in april
[07:32] <KBar> ELQEYNN ...
[07:35] <mannequin> ELQEYNN: stop saying nonsense
[07:39] <ELQEYNN> Hello EriC^^
[07:39] <EriC^^> hello ELQEYNN
[08:40] <mort> so Ubuntu Software says this any time I click the refresh button in the updates tab: "Unable to get list of updates: Failed to update metadata for lvfs: checksum failure: failed to verify data, expected cacca7432e1cc193eddcc7c99000c9a9800dbb33"
[08:40] <mort> I don't think it's supposed to say that
[08:44] <KBar> mort: version of Ubuntu? Are we talking about a classic deb-based Ubuntu Software or a snap plugin which enables Snap Store? Do you have any third-party PPAs in your sources?
[08:45] <mort> I'm on the jammy jellyfish development branch
[08:45] <KBar> !ubuntu-next | mort
[08:45] <mort> right
[08:46] <ducasse> !ubuntu+1
[08:46] <mort> Ubuntu Software has so consistently been a load of crap on all versions of ubuntu I've used that I didn't consider it a next issue
[08:46] <ducasse> mort: ^^
[08:46] <KBar> ducasse: thanks.
[08:48] <KBar> mort feel free to file bug reports, discuss in #ubuntu-discuss or offer suggestions to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:49] <mort> alright
[09:03] <mannequin> KBar: ok so instead restarting tor i just restart wifi and this works ok
[09:39] <node1> Hi how to fix Google chromium browser? It's unable to open when i click on it's icon.
[11:54] <krim> Hi. I really need some help with app armor - I have a nested system (lxd -> docker) and no docker container can listen to an network port. It is an app armor problem as running them unconfined or in complain mode works. the loaded profile already contains full network access, aa-logprof will not return anything, syslog looks also fine in complain mode...
[11:56] <krim> Does someone have an idea how to further debug this?
[12:08] <Aim> Hi, I accidentally allowed apt to remove 316 packages while attempting to install steam on my main, daily computer - https://imgur.com/a/Pdfnl3d
[12:08] <Aim> I'm kind of panicking, many of the packages seem pretty essential.  Any advice on how best to proceed would be greatly appreciated.  I'm kind of afraid of restarting my machine.  Should I just manually try to reinstall all of the removed packages..?
[12:18] <KBar> Aim that's not an accident. Can you access that list again? You didn't close that terminal window, right?
[12:19] <Aim> Thank you.  I still have the terminal open
[12:19] <Aim> Well, it certainty wasn't what I wanted.  It removed many packages I certainty wanted (emacs for example)
[12:20] <KBar> Aim, just paste them back after `sudo apt install`. But I thing the lines end with a newline character so you're gonna have to translate them to spaces. Could you paste this part to pastebin.com?
[12:20] <KBar> *think
[12:21] <KBar> Aim, wait, did you confirm to remove those packages at the prompt?
[12:22] <Aim> I ran this just before you responded: https://pastebin.com/XxSv5ymi
[12:22] <Aim> Yes, I pressed 'y' and confirmed the removal by accident..
[12:23] <KBar> Aim entering a password and confirming an action is not an accident.
[12:23] <KBar> Aim is that list the same list of packages that got removed?
[12:24] <Aim> I had entered my password earlier for something else, so I wasn't asked again, but yes, I admit this is entirely my fault
[12:24] <Aim> Yes, it is the same list
[12:25] <KBar> Aim for example, I don't see adb in there. Are you sure you pasted it or did you manually type the names in and might have missed a package or two?
[12:26] <Aim> You're are right, thank you for noticing.  It seems I copied the wrong part of the output
[12:26] <KBar> Aim I can see that you're also missing some libraries like libcanberra-pulse and libcairo
[12:27] <Aim> It seems I sent you the list of dependencies set to autoremove now that the packages are removed
[12:28] <KBar> Aim you probably removed some essential package priot to Steam installation which then asked you to autoremoved its dependencies, since they weren't needed anymore. Furthermore, install Steam launcher from their website.
[12:28] <KBar> *prior
[12:29] <KBar> Aim in any case, if you have that terminal window open, don't panic and just reinstall those packages.
[12:34] <Aim> Here is more of the output from my initial command: https://pastebin.com/rU6gyVAr .  This is the output when I try to reinstall the packages https://pastebin.com/pTLiEYsR .  It does seem like I must have messed up my repository list recently somehow.
[12:38] <KBar> Aim they are not essentials. Omit them from the list and re-run the command.
[12:40] <KBar> Aim did you modify /etc/apt/sources.list?
[12:44] <Aim> I removed those packages, and this was my result: https://pastebin.com/zKmwqQte .  I did try to use softare-properties-gtk recently to clean up repositories I added but thought were no longer necessary.. I am guessing now that that was not the proper way to do this..
[12:45] <Aim> This was over a week ago though, that I made those changes
[12:46] <Aim> (I am on ubuntu 18.04.4)
[12:48] <Aim> This is the only line in /etc/apt/sources.list: "deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ bionic main universe restricted multiverse"
[12:50] <ThinkT510> are you mixing releases? I hope not since that isn't supported
[12:54] <Aim> I am not intentionally, but perhaps I've accidentally done something to that affect by adding incompatible repositories to /etc/apt/sources.list.d when trying to follow installation guides for something
[12:54] <Aim> I've realize I don't properly know how to properly maintain my repository list, which is something I was trying to corrrect
[12:55] <ogra> Aim, you definitely want the ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard tasks back ... "sudo apt install ubuntu-minimal^ && sudo apt install ubuntu-standard^" (mind the carets, they tell apt it is a task, not a metapackage)
[12:55] <KBar> Aim I've never used aptitude but it might help you resolve this dependency hell.
[12:56] <ThinkT510> using aptitude is not recommended
[12:56] <KBar> ThinkT510: yes, it's not. It's being deprecated, but it's a good tool for this specific scenario.
[12:57] <KBar> ogra neat trick. thanks for sharing!
[12:58] <ogra> Aim, not sure why ubuntu-desktop is not being removed as well, since there are quite a bunch of essential desktop packages listed too ... is this some flavour or remix or was it an original ubuntu-desktop install
[12:58] <Aim> I realize I should just do a clean install sometime soon.  Unfortunately I'm about to start a new college semester though, and really just need a functioning machine with basic programs gimp and firefox in the short term
[12:59] <Aim> It's an original ubuntu-desktop install of 18, but with gnome-classic
[12:59] <ThinkT510> If "about to" means within the next few hours then a reinstall really isn't out of the question.
[12:59] <ogra> well, but then it once had the ubuntu-desktop task
[12:59] <Aim> (sorry, I meant gnome fallback)
[12:59] <Aim> agh, flashback
[13:00] <ogra> so you should install that as well, with a similar command as i pointed out above
[13:00] <ogra> (again with caret)
[13:01] <ogra> it also seems to have reoved some kernel packages, make sure you still have the one you are running installed before rebootin
[13:01] <ogra> g
[13:03] <KBar> ogra isnt the current one always locked/put to hold
[13:03] <KBar> but yeah, making sure is always a good idea
[13:03] <ogra> it should ... but who knows what condition this system is in
[13:03] <KBar> ogra +1
[13:04] <ogra> checking once too much is still better than an unbootable PC 😉
[13:04] <KBar> i would certainly expect that scenario, looking at the whole picture
[13:06] <jchittum> Aim : I noticed you tried to install `steam-launcher`. That may be part of the issue. Where are you getting that? The "official"  debian I know of is `steam-installer`, which is in the ubuntu multiverse packages back to bionic. or just `steam` : https://linuxnightly.com/how-to-install-steam-on-ubuntu/
[13:06] <Aim> https://pastebin.com/cE7hLE5e (output of sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop^)
[13:06] <KBar> jchittum: Valve recommends this: https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/client/installer/steam.deb
[13:08] <jchittum> KBar: That's fine, if you want to install from their site. but the installer is sort of <shrug>. Steam will autoupdate itself once installed. This is especially true if you enable Proton support (which I'm running the experimental channel).
[13:09] <Aim> Is one of these the issue? https://imgur.com/a/jqk2X0I
[13:09] <Aim> I really do not want steam at this point.  I was actually only initially installing it to uninstall some games to clear up storage space
[13:10] <KBar> Aim just remove the files. That's all what steam does anyway. There's no "uninstall" even though the button says so.
[13:11] <Aim> Yes, that's what I'm thinking I'll do, I just thought it would be nice to have a clear interface to see what games were installed
[13:11] <Aim> Anyway, my priority is just to get a working system again
[13:13] <Aim> I really don't need any of the software offered by anything in https://imgur.com/a/jqk2X0I anymore.  Realizing this, I have also unchecked a few boxes in the past few weeks in that list, which might be causing some of these problems..?
[13:15] <Aim> Yes, it seems to me like there's some sort of repository nonsense going on.  Unfortunately, I don't know how to either track down the problem or fix it
[13:16] <KBar> Aim there's too much wrong/broken stuff. Back up your data and reinstall, preferrably 20.04.
[13:17] <ogra> well, if you enabled a PPA (you seem to trust the world a lot ! ... note that enabling a PPA gives the owner of this PPA full root access to your machie, i'd only enable the ones you really really trust), installed packages from it that replace system packages and then disabled the PPA such issues can happen
[13:17] <Aim> Is that really my best option?  I don't think I'll be able to reinstall and setup my workflow before my classes in a few hours
[13:17] <KBar> Aim, yes. Literally the easiest way out.
[13:18] <ogra> an install is done within 20min or so ... how much work is it to "setup your workflow" ?
[13:18] <KBar> Aim or 10 hours of headache trying to pin point packages one by one
[13:18] <KBar> ppas 1 by 1
[13:18] <Aim> ogra, yes, that seems to be what happened.  This is essentially the first linux install that I've ever had, that I've just kept over the years.  I have been fairly naively trusting PPAs
[13:21] <Aim> I've just done a lot of customization over the years.  There are a lot of dot files and hardlinks and things, and scripts I assume won't just work with 20.04.  I realize that I'll have to move over eventually anyway
[13:22] <Aim> Hah, aptitude isn't even installed
[13:22] <KBar> Aim, if you back everything up properly, you will at least get most of your configs back
[13:23] <movo> Are ppas really any worse than most AURs, flatpaks, snaps, nix packages which are unverified programs from random sources? (not to mention the wild west of windows installers, chrome addons, android apps, etc.)
[13:24] <KBar> movo that depends
[13:25] <Aim> I have most things packed up properly into a git repository, but I really didn't want to commit to making small changes over the course of the next few weeks fixing things that don't behave how I expect them to
[13:25] <movo> afk only debian actually guarantees the security of apps in their repos (and i guess most debian based distros benefit from that including ubuntu)
[13:25] <KBar> Aim dot files are just dot files. you can literally copy and paste your .bashrc, for example, to thousands of computers
[13:25] <Aim> this is really not the ideal time for me to be making the switch
[13:26] <movo> Ah i have been where you are . i still might be there tho. Things amateur me does to manage :
[13:26] <KBar> Aim and hardlinks are just duplicate copies of the original file
[13:26] <movo> 1. make notes of changes i have made (i use zim for notes)
[13:26] <movo> especially note which files i need to back up such as dot files
[13:27] <movo> 2. have a second pc or second bootable partition so that if 1st one goes down at least you have a backup for work
[13:27] <KBar> and 3. have common sense
[13:27] <KBar> dont paste random commands with sudo
[13:28] <movo> 3. backup important files every now and then. i still do this manually mostly since i am too lazy to study back up solutions
[13:29] <jchittum> Aim: If the system is still somewhat usable, the "fastest" way is to copy your entire home directory onto a removable media. Then you can copy your entire homedir back after install
[13:29] <Aim> Actually, that's a really good point, thank you.  I totally forgot about a backup of this install I have from about a month ago.  At this point, I'll probably just revert to it and update it with changes I've made since then
[13:29] <movo> i have started using syncthing for syncing though (not a backup solution)
[13:29] <movo> also important i keep a note of all the files configs to back up when i plan to reinstall
[13:29] <jchittum> libraries and packages normally won't be in your homedir, but it'll copy your dot files, and most other basics. FWIW, the most basic backup tool that comes with Ubuntu is pretty good
[13:30] <Aim> I'm just aware that 20 will have new versions of software than the 18 ones I'm used to, and I don't want to commit to making the change right now.  Even just moving from emacs25 to a newer version would be hours of headache for me
[13:30] <movo> yes your homefolder should contain most of your dotfiles if you configured correctly.
[13:30] <jchittum> it's called "Backups" or "Deja Dupe" and is a frontend for `duplicity`. At its most basic it, it copies your homedir and keeps a registry of backups (and only copies deltas between the original copy)
[13:31] <jchittum> Aim: You can still reinstall to 18.04 if you wish then
[13:31] <jchittum> the installer is still available, and it is still supported
[13:31] <KBar> hell, even the iso for 14.04 is still up
[13:31] <movo> I know this headache. upgrading distro is almost as stressful as moving to a new house. Solution is backup, take notes, have second pc , and do reinstalls frequently so that it doesnt feel stressful anymore
[13:32] <Aim> Thank you, I know that's still an option too.  I guess I would just feel silly going to the trouble to setup again for 18.04, since I do have to move eventually.  I think I'll just move to my old 18.04 backup for now, and then reinstall to 20.04 later when I have more time
[13:33] <Aim> I do have notes for how to replicate my setup, but I know from trying to move before that not everything works the same way in 20.04
[13:34] <movo> yeah may not work.. but if your configs are human-readable you can apply 1 by 1 manually
[13:35] <movo> reason #13493843 why i love icewm... all my DE/WM related changes are in 1 folder ~/.icewm ... no mucking with gnome-tweaks, or scouring through 20 different dot files and dot folders
[13:36] <movo> everything from startup programs, to themes and wallpapers
[13:36] <KBar> > #ubuntu-discuss
[13:40] <movo> It was the one thing that gave me 100% confidence about migrating since i had added each and every line in the files okay i am done (its hard to silence this icewm partisan !)
[13:42] <movo> You may want to look at GNU Stow (another tool i haven't gotten round to using) . It allows you to manage all your dotfiles in a single repo and deploy it to the correct location on your system
[13:43] <movo> https://venthur.de/2021-12-19-managing-dotfiles-with-stow.html for more info
[13:43] <movo> If you incorporate this, you dont have to remember all the files you changed and where they are located
[13:44] <Aim> Thank you everyone for your advice.  I guess I am still fairly amateur when it comes to a lot of things, this has been my first linux install that I've just kept adding to over the past few years.  How do I avoid making this mistake on my next install? Sometimes when I wanted a more up to date version of some software, a guide online will tell me
[13:44] <Aim> to add a repository, and I just do it.  I guess I need to be much more reluctant to do so?  Is there a proper way to remove the repository and revert back to supported packages if I later decide I no longer need the software offered by the repository?
[13:45] <ioria> Aim, you use ppa-purge
[13:48] <KBar> If you want more up-to-date software, maybe Ubuntu stable releases aren't for you. You can try other distros which are based on Arch's rolling release cycle.
[13:48] <KBar> Aim. or you can switch to a devel release of Ubuntu.
[13:49] <KBar> which still might not satisfy your hunger and needs
[13:49] <Aim> Thank you.  So, to clarify, even if I have unchecked a repository from 'Other Software' in software-properties-gtk, I am still continuing to use unsupported packages from that repository?  So all of the repositories I have listed in the picture I sent above are continuing to add to this mess, even if I unchecked them months ago?
[13:50] <Aim> It is tempting, but I think I actually care a lot more about stability and predictability.  Like, I've stuck on with 18.04 all these years because I've had a setup I liked and didn't want anything to change
[13:50] <KBar> Aim you unchecked them from being updated/fetched. The packages that they installed are still on your system.
[13:51] <KBar> Aim it doesn't look like you aim (no put intended) for stability at all. At least to me.
[13:51] <Aim> I don't need bleeding edge, but there have been applications that just started to become a bit too outdated in 18.04 that I started looking for ways to get somewhat recent versions while staying on 18.04
[13:51] <KBar> Aim install snap versions/AppImages
[13:51] <KBar> only way to ensure you dont break your system
[13:52] <KBar> bonus points for security
[13:53] <Aim> Like, if I update my system, that evince has new menus or something I'm not expecting while I'm trying to focus on an exam or something, I'll be annoyed
[13:54] <Aim> I don't want the behavior of anything on my system to change when I don't have time to look into it.  I was actually thinking of going to plain debian from ubuntu next install
[13:54] <KBar> Aim I think you might want to create your own personal blog.
[13:55] <Aim> Hm..?
[13:55] <Aim> Sorry if I should be moving this discussion to a different channel or something, I'm not too familiar with that's here
[13:55] <Aim> what's*
[13:56] <ogra> here is "technical support for ubuntu" ... nothing beyond this
[13:56] <ogra> there are #ubuntu-discuss for wider ubuntu discussion and #ubuntu-offtopic for the rest
[13:57] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:58] <movo> Aim, haha i know exactly what you feel.. after 10 years of ubuntu and gnome i finally am distrohopping (trying kde neon now which is ubuntu based; baby steps haha)... i am not sure you will find your home in debian though. ubuntu might better for desktop userssince its debian based... although lot of such ppl  now recommending pop os!
[14:03] <Aim> movo I sent you a message in #ubuntu-discuss
[14:12] <mannequin> KBar: my crackling noise problem comes back and goes away and then comes back
[14:26] <tens66> Hello, right now I still have 20.10 which is no longer supported.. I see that 21.10 is only supported till July this year, so my best option is to downgrade to 20.04?
[14:29] <tens66> as I don't want to re-install again in July this year
[14:29] <mannequin> what kernel will 22.04 run?
[14:30] <KBar>  tens66 you can upgrade to 21.10, wait until April and then upgrade again to 22.04, which is LTS.
[14:31] <KBar> !next | mannequin
[14:31] <mannequin> ok, thanks
[14:32] <tens66> ah next LTS comes already in April.. problem is my apt system is broken, so I have to download and install over the existing system
[14:32] <tens66> if I do this, I can also do 20.04 I guess at then I just have to do that again in 6 months and not like in 3. Just wondering, as my /home sits on a different partition, if I could get problems with downgrading
[14:33] <tens66> ah sorry, so basically I could run 20.04 a whole year even
[14:46] <KBar> tens66: if you're on standard Ubuntu and not on a flavor, LTS releases are supported for 5 years meaning 20.04 will be supported for 3 more years.
[14:57] <tens66> KBar ok, yes indeed I am using Ubuntu Budgie.. so a downgrade to 20.04 isn't a bad idea per se?
[15:00] <KBar> tens66 there is no clean, reliable way of downgrading, as far as I know. If by downgrade you mean reinstall, then yes.
[15:00] <KBar> tens66: the better idea would be to upgrade to 21.10
[15:01] <tens66> yap, so I meant re-install.. but good, downloading 21.10 atm. As I can't even install the usb-startup disc create I guess some dd moves will do the trick?!
[15:03] <KBar> tens66: you can also boot up a Live session and do it from there, if you prefer GUI. But yes, dd should do the job.
[15:04] <tens66> problem is I have no live session medium right now, first have to create one.. this I wanted to do with dd
[15:04] <KBar> tens66: my bad. Yes, `dd` is superb
[15:05] <tens66> but thx in any case.. was lazy, it's my fault the state my system is in atm :D
[15:05] <KBar> np
[15:06] <Maik> KBar: only main Ubuntu LTS is supported for 5 years, all other flavors only 3 years.
[15:08] <Maik> tens66: ^
[15:22] <Aim> ogra Ok, I did 'sudo rm openvpn3.list' from /etc/apt/sources.list.d, and that seems to have been the major problem.  I forgot I had tried to setup openvpn last night, and it wasn't showing up in software-properties-gtk, which is why it took me so long to find
[15:23] <Aim> I was able to do sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop, and also reinstall almost all of the packages in the list of packages removed
[15:23] <ogra> ah, god catch
[15:23] <ogra> *good even
[15:23] <ogra> dont forget the caret !
[15:23] <Aim> In addition to ubuntu-desktop, what were the other two packages you recommended I made absolutely sure were installed?
[15:24] <ogra> ubuntu-minimal^ and ubuntu-standard^
[15:24] <Aim> Ah, I think I forgot the caret.  Is there something I should do now, having forgotten to do it the first time?
[15:24] <ogra> check if it installs other stuff if you re-run it with caret added
[15:25] <ogra> tasks and metapackages used to resolve their dependencies slightly different ... the installer uses tasks by default, so to get the same state you should use the task (which the caret defines)
[15:25] <ogra> (not sure if that difference still exists though ... has been a while since i was involved with that)
[15:25] <Aim> Anyway, the system is messed up enough that I know I should do a full reinstall soon, but hopefully this might last me through until the weekend
[15:26] <ogra> yur next reboot should tell 🙂
[15:26] <Aim> I see, doing it with the caret is more true to the original install, thanks
[15:26] <KBar> :D
[15:26] <Aim> Yup.. scary stuff hahah
[15:27] <Aim> I know, thanks so much for all the help everyone.  Now just to cross my fingers and reboot haha
[16:07] <Aim> Woohoo, I've restarted, and nothing is overtly broken.  I should probably still do a fresh install soon, but I'm very happy to have something up and (ostensibly) usable
[16:07] <Aim> Thanks again everyone for the help
[16:09] <lotuspsychje> !cookie | everyone
[16:46] <CoCo96> Hello, is there a way to prevent an entry in the crypttab to be used during the initramfs update?
[17:14] <movo> the internet suggest installing 32 bit version of nvidia drivers in addition to 64 bit for better steam/WINE support
[17:15] <oerheks> weird suggestion.
[17:15] <movo> how do i do this. i have added the i386 architecture via dpkg. but which package i install after that
[17:15] <oerheks> Not.
[17:15] <CodeMouse92> oerheks: I was gonna say, I don't think 32-bit drivers work on a 64-bit kernel
[17:16] <movo> debian tells to install nvidia-driver-libs:i386 but this doesnt exist
[17:16] <movo> https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
[17:16] <oerheks> no, debian did not tell you that.
[17:16] <movo> sorry 32-bit libraries
[17:16] <oerheks> only on a 32 bit system itself.
[17:16] <movo> "n many cases, such as when running proprietary 32-bit games from Steam or in Wine, you may need 32-bit graphics libraries on your 64-bit system in order for them to function properly. This has been made much easier since Debian 9/Stretch and now requires minimal extra work. " debian wiki
[17:16] <movo> 32-bit libraries.. not drivers
[17:17] <oerheks> but you seem to run debian, follow their advise?
[17:17] <tigefa> https://github.com/sopel-irc
[17:17] <tigefa> sorry wrong tab
[17:17] <movo> oh wait , i found it.. it was in a warning in that same section
[17:17] <movo> the package name is nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver-libs:i386
[17:18] <CoCo96> after update the initramfs i got always the warning: w: Possible missing firmware /lib...../amdgpu/vangogh_gpu_info.bin and more ...
[17:18] <CoCo96> anyone knows why?
[17:18] <CoCo96> i have amdgpu installed, the opensource version..
[17:18] <movo> sonofagun .... "Package not found"
[17:19] <oerheks> CoCo96, ignore that, it is just a warning, probably not even for your GPU
[17:20] <CoCo96> and also the cryptsetup: WARNING: REsmue targed Swa_dec uses a key file?
[17:20] <tuvok> hi guys.. i have a problem .. i have running a ipv6 tunnel .. but when i enable the ufw i get no ping replay and i can not connect to IRCservers with this v6 can anybody help me
[17:20] <CoCo96> why is it not possible to just prevent the initramfs update to use every entry in the crypttab...
[17:22] <oerheks> CoCo96, for that last issue; no idea :-(
[17:22] <movo> oerheks, i am actually on kde neon which is based on ubuntu 20.04.. ubuntu documentation doesnt seem to cover my old driver.. so i had followed instructions from askubuntu and reddit  add filling in blanks from debian wiki
[17:22] <oerheks> neon, is not supported, here or in #kubuntu
[17:22] <movo> i just need instructions for ubuntu
[17:25] <oerheks> the steam installer package pulls in all the nessasary 32 bit libs, no?
[17:25] <lotuspsychje> tuvok: sounds like an issue for #networking or #netfilter perhaps?
[17:26] <tuvok> iam not so good in this things
[17:29] <movo> oerheks, not sure. i dont think nvidia driver libraries are included.. have to be installed separately as per sources like https://github.com/lutris/docs/blob/master/InstallingDrivers.md
[17:29] <cart_man> I have installed Plasma on my new Ubuntu installation. Ever since then when I boot up the Login screen is just one giant Keyboard but I can not see or select a BOX to type te password in
[17:30] <movo> i guess my situation is even more convoluted since i am using old nvidia-340.. i thought it would be a simple matter of finding correct package name but looks i will have to go rooting around the internet more
[17:30] <cart_man> Is there a way I can remove this huge keyboard overlayed on my entire screen?
[17:31] <oerheks> 304/340 are solely in the driver ppa ; https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[17:31] <oerheks> but i wonder if that guide is correct
[17:31] <oerheks> = lutris
[17:35] <movo> i wonder too.. it might well apply to newer drivers.. but i see references to 32-bit libs in different sources. (like reddit). my steam (flatpak version) correctly detected the nouveau drivers but after installing nvidia-340 now it reports driver as Mesa/X.org llvmpipe (LLVM 12.0.1, 128 bits)
[17:35] <CoCo96> maybe i missed something, but it is required to install the linux firmwares and not enough to use the shipped admgpu from the linux kernel?
[17:36] <lotuspsychje> CoCo96: we often see users benefit latest kernel versions for amd
[17:36] <oerheks> It's not a firmware issue. Newer kernels give that message for AMD GPUs. It's irrelevant.
[17:37] <CoCo96> I don't like warnings that say nothing ;-)
[17:37] <oerheks> there *is* a firmware git, but i doubt it will wipe those errors https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/
[17:38] <oerheks> jsut make sure you have linux-firmware installd
[17:39] <CoCo96> jup thanks
[17:39] <nshirelaptop> is there a way to share a wireless connection in ubuntu?
[17:40] <nshirelaptop> I tried mobile hotspot but that disables the wifi connection. I  want to have my laptop connected to a network and rebroadcast its own network but piggyback off the original wifi
[17:40] <CoCo96> see you all next time, bye and thanks
[17:41] <oerheks> nshirelaptop, only when you use a cable between phone and device
[17:42] <nshirelaptop> I worked in windows with the same laptop =/
[17:42] <nshirelaptop> no cables or anything
[17:50] <cart_man> I have installed Plasma on my new Ubuntu installation. Ever since then when I boot up the Login screen is just one giant Keyboard but I can not see or select a BOX to type te password in. Is there a way I can remove this huge keyboard overlayed on my entire screen?
[19:01] <MrCollinsGA> I have ubuntu 20.04 best practice for executing another script inside a script for instance https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/raw/ubokexojah
[19:04] <sarnold> MrCollinsGA: I prefer the second version
[19:05] <MrCollinsGA> sarnold, thank you!
[19:06] <leftyfb> sarnold: right, you want to call a bash script a bash script and not sh. Also, why not check some state and choose to do rsync in the 2nd script?
[19:09] <MrCollinsGA> leftyfb, the second script wouldnt have any files to render, and I want to kick things off on my windows machine so when I move files into the dir it is syncing with, cron will kick off the script chain I have
[19:11] <leftyfb> MrCollinsGA: windows copies files -> constantly running script in background is looking for files (that haven't changed in size for X seconds) -> rsync's them -> renders
[19:12] <MrCollinsGA> leftyfb, right. let me show you what I have so far. https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/raw/keciweqobi
[19:14] <MrCollinsGA> batch script on windows deletes the files in the original directory, AFTER I have them backed up, via the script. Now I am trying to figure out how to make the scripts wait between each command.
[19:14] <leftyfb> MrCollinsGA: good progression and great start. This can all be 1 constantly running script called with systemd at boot, not cron and no need to start and stop things. I would suggest getting it all working as-is and then slowly start consolidating and improving
[19:15] <MrCollinsGA> leftyfb, ok. what would you do next?
[19:15] <MrCollinsGA> and thank you for saying that :)
[19:15] <leftyfb>  /path/to/script && /path/to/other/script-that-doesnt-run-unless-the-previous-one-finishes-successfully
[19:19] <MrCollinsGA> so for instance: https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/raw/omobayiyat
[19:21] <leftyfb> yes, but thus also works and is easier to read https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/WjYfygPQjX/
[19:22] <leftyfb> you don't need ./ for full path calls
[19:22] <sarnold> it might be worth using a set -e  instead of && on each one
[19:23] <leftyfb> sarnold: I think this is ok progression. I feel their next step would be to consolidate these scripts into 1 anyway
[19:25] <MrCollinsGA> thank you!
[19:25] <MrCollinsGA> well the search one is wild the one I had so much trouble with replacing the text
[19:25] <MrCollinsGA> finally got that figured out too
[19:25] <MrCollinsGA> that tok me 3 solid days
[19:25] <MrCollinsGA> took*
[19:26] <leftyfb> that's called learning :)
[19:26] <sarnold> leftyfb: oh that's a good idea
[19:26] <MrCollinsGA> yes :)
[19:27] <MrCollinsGA> leftyfb, so when I put this in a script but DO NOT turn off cron, what stops cron from constantly changing the files or overwriting them during render
[19:29] <leftyfb> MrCollinsGA: you could go about that several ways. But lets leave that as-is for now and work on other improvements. But lets take this to maybe #ubuntu-discuss as it's not really Ubuntu support-related. Also, I'm still working and can't devote a lot of focus here today but I'll see what I can do
[19:29] <MrCollinsGA> anything is fine and I expect nothing thank you kindly
[19:47] <Guest7348> hi
[19:48] <Guest7348> I have an issue. when some process uses more cpu such as the browser, xrdp and vnc stop responding and eventually i cannot connect to the server. is there a way to fix this issue?
[19:51] <sarnold> Guest7348: it'll probably take some effort to figure out why exactly you're having problems; if the issue is CPU, you could 'nice' or 'renice' the browser, to give other processes a better shot at the cpu
[19:51] <sarnold> Guest7348: but if the browser is using so much memory that other processes are starved of memory and the system starts to swap, you'll need to do something else to restrict memory use of the browser
[19:51] <Guest7348> sarnold hm
[19:52] <Guest7348> sarnold killing the browser from a ssh fixes the problem but if i delay the manual sshing, the sshd daemon stops responding as well
[19:53] <Guest7348> sarnold is there a way to make the sshd run on some special privilege so that it never freezes
[19:53] <Guest7348> so that at-least some cpu cycles/ram is always given to sshd
[19:54] <Guest7348> is it possible somehow?
[19:56] <sarnold> Guest7348: yes, it is, but that's also a bit dangerous :) you could run it with a realtime scheduling priority
[19:57] <Guest7348> looks like giving sshd such a privilege will be good
[19:57] <Guest7348> atleast to one process
[19:57] <sarnold> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#Scheduling
[19:57] <Maik> Guest7348: don't you already get help in #linux?
[19:58] <sarnold> oh if you're getting help elsewhere I don't want to step on anyone's toes
[19:58] <Guest7348> maix talking to one guy there and sarnold here
[19:58] <Maik> as said, try to keep it in one channel
[19:58] <Guest7348> sarnold your scheduling idea looks better to me though!
[19:59] <Maik> stop cross posting please
[20:00] <Guest7348> Maik hm.. sorry. but i am not pasting the same thing at both places
[20:00] <Maik> doesn't matter, keep it in one channel
[20:03] <Guest7348> sarnold its a cloud vps. once it freezes i need to get to their console website and stop and start it
[20:03] <Guest7348> ;)
[20:03] <sarnold> well that beats having to drive across the country to poke a button :)
[20:03] <Guest7348> so if i can make the freezing stop/or atleast one sshd responsive, it will do good
[20:04] <Guest7348> but maybe the better idea is to put a php page or something that execs sudo killall -9 palemoon
[20:04] <Guest7348> until i am able to fix the reason why it hangs
[20:05] <Guest7348> a better idea*
[20:06] <sarnold> heh I hope there's somethign better than that :D
[20:07] <Guest7348> suggest something please sarnold
[20:08] <Guest7348> the best thing to do
[20:08] <Guest7348> right now i have disable js and its fine so far
[20:08] <Guest7348> but if i enable js in palemoon
[20:08] <Guest7348> or in any other browser it freezes eventually
[20:08] <Guest7348> the whole system hangs
[20:08] <Guest7348> its a 1GB ram vps
[20:09] <sarnold> ouch!
[20:09] <sarnold> heh, realtime scheduling for sshd isn't going to help much
[20:09] <sarnold> browsers eat memory
[20:09] <sarnold> bump that up to 4 or 8 gigs or something
[20:09] <Guest7348> LOL
[20:10] <Guest7348> says 488 MB RAM avail
[20:10] <Guest7348> 972.1 total
[20:10] <Guest7348> in top
[20:12] <sarnold> keep an eye on that as you use the browser and see what happens..
[20:12] <Guest7348> i say the cpu shoot to 97% use before it froze
[20:12] <Guest7348> saw*
[20:14] <Guest7348> is there a way to run the browser process inside a jail
[20:14] <Guest7348> so that it doesnt go beyond a specific MB/cpu%?
[20:17] <sarnold> cgroups can do that
[20:17] <sarnold> I'm not sure the best way to get there, though
[20:18] <Guest7348> i saw in system monitor it says swap not available
[20:19] <Guest7348> should i enable it
[20:20] <sarnold> yes, having some swap space would help
[20:20] <Guest7348> sarnold do you think making a 1G swap will prevent the crash
[20:20] <sarnold> not as much as more RAM, obviously
[20:20] <sarnold> dunno, that's still very tight
[20:20] <Guest7348> i have 200GB storage
[20:20] <Guest7348> i can add maybe 10G swap
[20:20] <Guest7348> lol
[20:20] <Maik> standard swap on Ubuntu is 2GB
[20:20] <Guest7348> but dunno if it will help
[20:20] <Guest7348> i see
[20:21] <Guest7348> i will try this site as reference https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-add-swap-space-on-ubuntu-20-04
[20:21] <Maik> since 18.04 swapfiles are created by default when installing Ubuntu
[20:21] <Guest7348> will revert here if it worked
[20:21] <Guest7348> fixed the issue or not
[20:22] <Guest7348> Maik gnome-system-monitor says swap not available
[20:22] <Maik> weird
[20:23] <Guest7348> the instance had terminal only. i added the xfce4 vnc xrdp stuff
[20:23] <Guest7348> it was console only
[20:23] <Guest7348> maybe the swap needs to be manually enabled :)
[20:23] <Guest7348> brb
[20:36] <irl25519> anyone have an idea about what's coming in 22.04?
[20:37] <Guest7348> sarnold Maik it was the swap not existing issue! now the vps does not crash at all
[20:37] <Guest7348> uses 859 MB ram max and puts rest to swap
[20:38] <Guest7348> without crashing
[20:38] <sarnold> woot
[20:38] <Guest7348> yes
[20:40] <Maik> Guest7348: that's great :)
[20:43] <Guest7348> hm. thanks all
[21:00] <rjwiii> I created a bootable USB using "Startup Disk Creator", but when I try to boot a laptop (Asus K601), it defaults to the internal disk even though I put "external device" as the first boot device. I can see the USB drive being recognized at the boot screen. Any ideas?
[21:03] <sarnold> is there windows on the machine? I wonder if the windows' "fast boot" option could do something like that
[21:11] <rjwiii> saribro: I turned off fast boot and even tried disabling the hard drive all together ... still won't boot.
[21:12] <rjwiii> from USB
[21:13] <marc_> can anyone tell me how i reinstall nvidia drivers from fresh i got some kind of slowdown as like graphics card isnt sync with monitor
[21:15] <marc_> it says Gsync not enabled
[21:28] <jhutchins> rjwiii: I have a system where even if I set the USB as the default, it still boots to the last used device.  I have to go into the boot menu and manually select it once, then we're fine.
[21:29] <sarnold> I wonder if asus has published a firmware update to fix that?
[21:29] <sarnold> sometimes they include fixes beyond just new cpu firmware
[21:29] <pony> how do I enable cron to start at each boot?
[21:31] <sarnold> systemctl enable cron.service  might do the trick, unless you've masked it
[21:31] <pony> all right i'll try it thx
[21:32] <rjwiii> jhutchins: I tried disabling the HD all together ... Still didn't find the USB boot ...
[21:33] <rjwiii> jhutchins: and I've tried ESC & F8 to bring up the boot menu. Both failed.
[22:06] <jemark> anyone issues with bluetooth audio since latest updates in Ubuntu 20.04 ? It worked yesterday, and now the bluetooth device is not detected (AMD Ryzen 7 2700U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx (8) @ 2.200GHz)
[22:10] <jemark> trying: sudo apt install linux-lowlatency-hwe-20.04 , I'll report back...
[22:13] <jemark> fixed
[22:15] <jemark> it was an issue with the xanmod1 kernel and the latest updates or firmware update caused the issue... maybe it will help someone else.
[22:20] <tomreyn> jemark: only ubuntu kernels are supported here
[22:23] <jemark> tomreyn: thank you for letting me know ;-)
[22:23] <jemark> I supported myself...
[23:11] <nuala2> rjjwiii: when you disable HD and bring up the boot menu can you select the USB drive? What happens then? Also: Have you tried a different USB port? (If possible try a different computer and/or USB device?)
[23:11] <Gallomimia> if i have this readout in "top", then opening a video game that runs in proton and takes about 5gb of ram to itself.... should perform fine right? MiB Mem :  15955.7 total,    885.1 free,   4471.7 used,  10598.9 buff/cache
[23:12] <Gallomimia> usually doesn't tho.
[23:12] <Gallomimia> a reboot is needed to get any framerate above 10
[23:13] <sarnold> Gallomimia: it depends how much of that 10g cached contents is needed on a regular basis
[23:14] <sarnold> Gallomimia: you might want to run vmstat 1 > /tmp/log    while loading and playing the game -- check the 'si' and 'so' columns, if they aren't 0 then your machine is being pushed too far
[23:17] <Gallomimia> a good suggestion. what can i do about this? it only happens from leaving things to run for too long
[23:18] <Gallomimia> i also seem to have lots of blank "menu items" in the top right where icons appear from various programs being open. steam, hexchat, discord...
[23:19] <Gallomimia> actually, i think discord has a repeated crash problem
[23:20] <Gallomimia> i'm really rather upset that this machine has such poor performance with newer software. under ubuntu 18.04 i would routinely run games, browser, music player, chats... lots of stuff. and i had no swap file.
[23:21] <Gallomimia> negative. degraded performance, severe input lag. not quite as slow as usual tho... gonna try a reboot after i check this log you mentioned
[23:21] <Gallomimia> sarnold, what.... am i looking at? how do i read this?
[23:22] <sarnold> Gallomimia: there's different columns, showing different statistics, one line per second
[23:22] <Gallomimia> so, has lots and lots of stuff
[23:22] <sarnold> Gallomimia: my favourite columns are 'si' and 'so', they show how much swap in and swap out traffic you've had in that previous second
[23:23] <Gallomimia> like i said, i used to live without a swap file at all. never worry about churn
[23:25] <Gallomimia> now. i recently downgraded from nvidia driver 470 to 450-server, because there was an insane memory leak and performance problem from failing to grab modeset ownership
[23:25] <Gallomimia> so.... maybe it's possible i could live without that swap file again?
[23:32] <Gallomimia> any suggestions on that matter? most people suggest not running without swap, but i say i did it for years with never an issue, except for one game that doesn't like proton
[23:33] <sarnold> I strongly recommend swap, the kernel can make better memory management decisions if it has a place to throw unused memory
[23:33] <Gallomimia> "can"
[23:34] <Gallomimia> but it doesn't. at least not for me
[23:35] <Gallomimia> i tell you, my system runs better without. the only reason i turned it back on was because that driver memory leak was murdering it
[23:36] <oerheks> proton, i think it loves 4gb+ cards
[23:36] <sprout_> with 256GB dimms around the corner maybe we'll get rid of swap
[23:40] <nuala2> I liked sarnold's idea with vmstat very much (thanks for sharing this). If you don't see lots of 0  in so/si I guess its safe to assume you run out of memory (because swap is used).
[23:41] <nuala2> If you day it only happens 'after some time' it might points towards a memory leak? Start every application in order and monitor your memory. You night find the offender?
[23:41] <nuala2> s/day/say (et .al.)
[23:42] <sarnold> yeah, and you can plot all the values using your favourite tools if you want.. it's not a full-blown observability thing, but it's an excellent and easy summary of some of the most important numbers
[23:55] <shepherd_> Hi, having trouble getting getting my touchscreens to map properly. They have the same names in xinput, and the ID's do not stay the same after reboots. Consequently they must be remapped on almost every reboot. I tried to make a little script here ~ note: I'm not a programmer in anyway. Anyone have any ideas? https://pastebin.com/NPnSFazM if there was any human way to rename the touch devices that show
[23:55] <shepherd_> up in xinput that would be the real saviour
[23:56] <sarnold> shepherd_: oh dang :( I was hoping you'd found a solution :(
[23:57] <shepherd_> sarnold: they helped me to make that script, but if you look at it youll see its not very well thought through haha
[23:59] <shepherd_> sarnold: i mean the links you sent helped haha. but I think a better solution is out there, I may just not be good enough to write it / do it.
[23:59] <sarnold> shepherd_: yeah, it does feel like there's got to be something friendlier than this :) hehe