[00:18] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerk1: That's very weird.
[00:23] <milkii> does not appear to be in use? not as in it's invisible, busy making PA, JACK, etc. all run together? :)
[01:15] <OvenWerk1> milkii: pactl info does not say pipewire
[01:16] <OvenWerk1> and carla shows my firewire device using the ffado backend... not pipewrie I'm using. but ps shows two pipewire processes
[01:17] <OvenWerk1> Also pipewire has not opened any alsa devices
[01:21] <milkii> Curious...
[16:45] <OvenWerk1> I guess this should really be for the kubuntu guys... konversation defaults to #kubuntu on freenode... which is no longer free
[16:51] <RikMills> OvenWerk1: nope. it defaults to #kubuntu on libera
[16:52] <OvenWerk1> RikMills: it could be that I installed on an old home directory then.
[16:52] <RikMills> unless you have some old config
[16:53] <RikMills> sounds likely
[16:53] <RikMills> we changed the default for when there was no previous config
[16:53] <OvenWerk1> it was just that I didn't recall having ever run that app before.
[16:53]  * OvenWerk1 uses irssi
[16:54] <RikMills> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/konversation/+bug/1929378
[21:15] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: I *may* have to change that default using a skel or something. We don't install it by default, but making a default that does what it should do on a per-flavor basis seems like a better way.
[21:16] <OvenWerk1> Eickmeyer: hmm, where did it come from if it is not installed by default. I didn't install it afterwards.
[21:17]  * Eickmeyer blinks
[21:17] <Eickmeyer> Taking a look now.
[21:18] <OvenWerk1> is it pulled in by something else?
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> No, it's directly in the seed for desktop-recommends. Should I pull it?
[21:18] <OvenWerk1> if it is the only irc client what would it be replaced with?
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> ...
[21:19] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, we should keep it, but I'll have to override the default in -default-settings.
[21:19] <OvenWerk1> we used to have pidgen? (i don't remember...
[21:21] <Eickmeyer> Probably x-chat or hexchat? Either way, not very KDE-friendly. I *could* install Quassel instead of Konversation.
[21:22] <OvenWerk1> I haven't seen *chat for years
[21:22] <OvenWerk1> maybe it was quassel I saw last
[21:23] <Eickmeyer> Maybe. Quassel's all-in-one is very straightforward. You can split server and client (which is what I do), but quassel is pretty simple.
[21:23] <OvenWerk1> but if my 20.04 already had an old config, I am guessing konversation was there too.
[21:23] <Eickmeyer> Konversation is hard-patched for #kubuntu, it's not a config.
[21:24] <Eickmeyer> (wrong way to do it IMO).
[21:24] <OvenWerk1> what RikMills said above is that is only used where there is no config in place
[21:26] <Eickmeyer> Right, which is why we could 1) Add a config to replace the default, or 2) replace Konversation with something else like Quassel.
[21:26] <OvenWerk1> I think almost all apps are: ~/.config or /etc or /usr/share or built in
[21:26] <Eickmeyer> There's another config for us: /usr/share/ubuntustudio/kf5-settings
[21:26] <OvenWerk1>         logging.debug("reconfiguring pulse bridges")
[21:27] <OvenWerk1> what? wierd
[21:27] <Eickmeyer> hehe
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> Basically, XDG has its own config path and kf5-settings is just below ~/.config in priority.
[21:29] <OvenWerk1> So they skip /etc not uncommon.
[21:29] <Eickmeyer> No, that's the complete base fallback.
[21:29] <Eickmeyer> The biggest problem is that anything in /etc doesn't get automatically replaced by packaging unless one of the maintscripts explicitly overwrites it.
[21:30] <OvenWerk1> that is also the idea of it.
[21:30] <OvenWerk1>  ... /usr/share is install defaults, /etc is for site defaults
[21:31] <Eickmeyer> Right, which is why other defaults are set in /usr/share/{something}. Kubuntu uses /usr/share/kubuntu/kf5-settings while we use the same, s/kubuntu/ubuntustudio though.
[21:33] <Eickmeyer> So, one could theoretically install a kconversationrc file to /usr/share/ubuntustudio/kf5-settings to override the defaults if they aren't already a thing in ~/.config, therefore overriding the hardcoded (patched) default.
[21:33] <OvenWerk1> yup
[21:34] <OvenWerk1> I think no c in that though ;)
[21:34] <Eickmeyer> That or we use Quassel and Kubuntu does whatever they want with Konversation.
[21:34] <OvenWerk1> wouldn't the same thing apply?
[21:34] <Eickmeyer> Not exactly. Quassel isn't hard-patched to join #kubuntu.
[21:34] <Eickmeyer> It's basically a clean slate.
[21:35] <OvenWerk1> but not #ubuntustudio either
[21:35] <Eickmeyer> Right.
[21:35] <OvenWerk1> whichever package you like or other like is fine by me.
[21:35] <Eickmeyer> I mean, either way, it's not hard to do.
[21:35] <Eickmeyer> I prefer Quassel myself, but that's just me.
[21:36] <Eickmeyer> Konversation is an official KDE project, whereas Quassel just integrates.
[21:36] <OvenWerk1> Quassel does have a lot more options of chat type I think.
[21:36] <Eickmeyer> That is true for sure.
[21:37] <OvenWerk1> I don't know how import that is for a media production iso
[21:37] <Eickmeyer> It's not, honestly.
[21:39] <OvenWerk1> size of package matters more maybe
[21:40] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, for sure. Lemme take a look.
[21:41] <Eickmeyer> Konversation is about 15MB with both konversation and konversation-data.
[21:41] <Eickmeyer> Quassel is about 11MB.
[21:42] <Eickmeyer> (quassel + quassel-data)
[21:42] <Eickmeyer> So, 4MB difference. 
[21:44] <OvenWerk1> not a lot.
[21:44] <OvenWerk1> (anymore)
[21:48] <Eickmeyer> Right, that's 0.01% of our 4GB allowance.
[21:48] <Eickmeyer> I might be missing a 0 too.
[21:48] <OvenWerk1> does idjc work these days?
[21:49] <Eickmeyer> As far as I know, it does not.
[21:49] <OvenWerk1> there are three releases in 2021
[21:49] <Eickmeyer> Hmmm....
[21:49] <OvenWerk1> https://sourceforge.net/projects/idjc/files/
[21:50] <Eickmeyer> Only thing that exists in the archives is libshout-idjc3 and its corresponding -dev.
[21:52] <Eickmeyer> Not sure why, per the dependencies, it hasn't been reintroduced.
[21:52] <OvenWerk1> except the 0.9* files to DL do not seem to have tags on the code page
[21:52] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, not sure what's going on there.
[21:52] <OvenWerk1> I wonder if the main work has been moved
[21:53] <Eickmeyer> Nothing indicating that. Activity shows it's got a commit as of 1 day ago.
[21:55] <Eickmeyer> Weird, activity but no tags.
[21:56] <OvenWerk1> and version changes
[21:56] <Eickmeyer> Bad git practices, imo.
[21:58] <Eickmeyer> I can look into resurrecting it and at least get it into the archives. Not sure I want to seed it until I know how big it is.
[21:58] <OvenWerk1> understood
[22:00] <Eickmeyer> In the meantime, I guess I'll switch Konversation out with Quassel. We can use all the space we can get, even if it's a fraction of a percentage.
[22:01] <OvenWerk1> OBS can be used... but it is a pain for audio only
[22:03] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's true, but it's jack-enabled, which is nice.
[22:04] <OvenWerk1> I think I will release one more non-pw -controls
[22:05] <OvenWerk1> mostly bug fixes
[22:05] <Eickmeyer> Probably a good idea. Reinventing the wheel prior to an LTS is not a great idea. BTW, I made changes to the .desktop and icon files to keep it from showing up as Android Studio. Not sure why it was doing that, but I worked around the problem.
[22:06] <OvenWerk1> Makes sense
[22:06] <Eickmeyer> I patched the versions prior, but if you do a release I can remove the patches.
[22:06] <Eickmeyer> But no hurry just for that. :)
[22:07] <OvenWerk1> So I should get your patches in? or have you just put them in the package?
[22:10] <OvenWerk1> Eickmeyer: feel free to add the patches to github 
[22:10] <OvenWerk1> just remind me you have done so ;)
[22:11] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerk1: Oh, it's already done. I committed directly.
[22:11] <Eickmeyer> I just didn't do a release upstream and considered it a downstream patch in the meantime.
[22:13] <OvenWerk1> right I see that
[22:15] <OvenWerk1> Those kinds of changes (in many apps) mean our menu stub needs to be rewritten.
[22:16] <OvenWerk1> A lot of the desktop files have a url in front of them too
[22:25] <Eickmeyer> Ah, true.
[22:26] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's because the new XDG standard is a reverse-domain URL for icon names, which is why I went with that. Makes it easier for the system to distinguish.