[08:51] <nicoz> o/
[15:56] <ddstreet> o/
[15:59] <mapreri> o/
[16:00] <Mr_Pan> hi o/
[16:01] <ddstreet> teward around?
[16:02] <ddstreet> let's give teward a minute or two, then get started
[16:02] <mapreri> sure
[16:04] <ddstreet> ok let's go ahead then
[16:04] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backporters
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:04:09 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:04] <ddstreet> ok! let's go over previous action items...i think some did get done :)
[16:04] <ddstreet> #topic Previous Action Items
[16:04] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:04] <ddstreet> sadly not yet :( i definitely will before next mtg :)
[16:05] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over)
[16:05] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet open bug on u-d-t to update backportpackage script
[16:05] <ddstreet> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/1959115
[16:05] <ddstreet> done!
[16:05] <mapreri> oh, reading
[16:06] <ddstreet> well it's only a bug opened to track it
[16:06] <ddstreet> so, the actual *work* isn't done
[16:06] <mapreri> sorry, reading what you wrote here heh
[16:06] <mapreri> I was distracted
[16:06] <mapreri> yeah, I've seen that bug in my mailbox, cool, ta
[16:06] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update wiki page clarifying requestors should subscribe ~ubuntu-backporters to BPO bugs
[16:06] <ddstreet> mapreri did this one - thanks! :)
[16:06] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over)
[16:06] <mapreri> I actually forgot it was part of the meeting todo when I did lol
[16:07] <ddstreet> yeah me too :)
[16:07] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over)
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over)
[16:07] <teward> i'm late sorry
[16:07] <teward> got busy with a call to GoDaddy
[16:07] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)
[16:07] <ddstreet> need to carry that as well - and as before, if either of you want to do the tool updates please feel free
[16:08] <mapreri> wait, the one about backportpackage, was that checked recetly?
[16:08] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)
[16:08] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)
[16:08] <mapreri> i figured unit193's patch was enough, or..?
[16:08] <ddstreet> i have not actually checked...
[16:08] <ddstreet> does it match our new process?
[16:08] <mapreri> well, in backportpackage it was mostly about adapting the changelog version, and that was done, so I *think* so
[16:09] <mapreri> but should probably be extra-verified…
[16:09] <ddstreet> ok yeah, let's leave the action in there at least until we double-check it works as we expect
[16:10] <mapreri> also, perhaps the bug above should be changed to include also requestbackports, perhaps
[16:10] <mapreri> if you ack I'll tweak the title and text
[16:10] <ddstreet> yep ack
[16:10] <ddstreet> thanks!
[16:10] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet fix-released bugs for accepted uploads
[16:11] <ddstreet> that's done, for all bugs our team is subscribed to
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet raise topic of rescheduling meeting on ML
[16:11] <ddstreet> i did not send this email yet...should we just discuss now? or will it be easier to work it out on ML?
[16:12] <mapreri> here would be quicker most likely.
[16:12] <ddstreet> this day/time works ok for me for the first 30 min...i have an overlap at the bottom of the hour though
[16:12] <ddstreet> mapreri teward is there a better day and/or time for you?
[16:13] <teward> i don't mind adjusting the schedule times
[16:13] <teward> my schedule is relatively flexible until chaos erupts at FT job
[16:13] <mapreri> I'd have a preference if we could move this back 1 hour.  In practice, follow DST, so in winter it would be at 17 UTC instead of 16 UTC (but not in summer)
[16:14] <ddstreet> that would probably work for me, though i would have a mtg right before it so i may be late sometimes
[16:14] <mapreri> → https://time.is/compare/1700_26_Jan_2022_in_UTC
[16:14] <ddstreet> actually, my meeting usually ends on time, so 17:00 utc should work for me
[16:14] <teward> that works for me
[16:15] <mapreri> perhaps 17.15 or .30 so it's not a risk of overlaps?  it's not our meeting takes up much
[16:15] <mapreri> and what does your other meeting do wrt DST?
[16:15] <ddstreet> mapreri if we track DST though, i believe USA and Europe have different DST start/end dates?
[16:15] <ddstreet> my other meeting does track USA DST
[16:15] <mapreri> yeah well, in that time normally either one side or the other just suck it for one round :3
[16:16] <mapreri> (leaving the choice to whoever organizes)
[16:16] <ddstreet> ok so are we all ok with 17:30 UTC, following USA DST?
[16:17] <ddstreet> meaning, 12:30PM Eastern time
[16:17] <mapreri> so next round would be https://time.is/compare/1730_09_Feb_2022_in_UTC ?
[16:17] <ddstreet> yep
[16:17] <teward> yup
[16:17] <teward> works here
[16:17] <mapreri> cool
[16:17] <ddstreet> awesome! i'll action item that change
[16:18] <mapreri> that said, the 9th of Feb I might be travelling during the whole afternoon so I might miss it (i'll confirm it later on though)
[16:18] <mapreri> :/
[16:18] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet schedule next meeting at 12:30pm Eastern time, following USA DST schedule
[16:18] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet schedule next meeting at 12:30pm Eastern time, following USA DST schedule
[16:18] <mapreri> now, to just drop DST what do we do
[16:18] <mapreri> re-aligning the world
[16:18] <ddstreet> i really want everywhere to drop DST
[16:18] <ddstreet> it's just too annoying
[16:19] <ddstreet> annoying enough locally - but then having to work out the differences with contacts in other countries/TZs
[16:19] <ddstreet> it hurts my head
[16:19] <ddstreet> ok anyway, let's move on
[16:19] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:19] <mapreri> yeah, carried over
[16:20] <ddstreet> #action mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:20] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:20] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:20] <ddstreet> #action mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:20] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)
[16:20] <ddstreet> i assume carry over for that and the next one
[16:20] <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399)
[16:20] <ddstreet> lintian isn't done yet is it?
[16:20] <mapreri> mh is taht miissing still?
[16:20] <mapreri> the one about uploading the tools
[16:21] <mapreri> probably mh
[16:21] <mapreri> there are a couple to update at the very least, so just leave it there sure
[16:21] <mapreri> I'll get to it rsn
[16:21] <ddstreet> ack
[16:21] <ddstreet> yeah no hurry, we can leave it or drop it whenver
[16:21] <mapreri> I think lechner pretty much ignored that bug, I'll poke him on irc later
[16:21] <ddstreet> i suspect it'll be a never-ending process of keeping the tools updated
[16:22] <mapreri> that's the point :)
[16:22] <ddstreet> :)
[16:22] <ddstreet> ok i'll action the lintian one too for now
[16:22] <ddstreet> #action mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399)
[16:22] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399)
[16:23] <mapreri> ah, I see now that lechner did raise some points about it mh
[16:23] <mapreri> I'll follow up
[16:23] <ddstreet> we have unassigned actions too, i'll go thru them, if anyone wants to take any of them (or has completed any) please speak up, otherwise i'll just re-action them
[16:23] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:24] <mapreri> that should likely come after the membership process above
[16:24] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:24] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:24] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:24] <mapreri> mh
[16:24] <mapreri> how is that any different than "propose text for membership process to add to KB page" ?
[16:25] <ddstreet> probably not really different
[16:25] <mapreri> drop it?
[16:25] <ddstreet> yeah, i think it came up from concerns about non-participating DMB members...but it definitely should just be part of the whole 'membership process'
[16:25] <ddstreet> ack to dropping it
[16:26] <mapreri> non-partecipating members is the one before, which is fine to leave separate so we make sure it's included
[16:26] <ddstreet> ah right ok
[16:26] <mapreri> this current one looks just a duplicate, however :)
[16:26] <ddstreet> yeah definitely :)
[16:26] <mapreri> pls nobody disappear until we have the text in place :3
[16:27] <ddstreet> lol
[16:27] <ddstreet> maybe we should remove this unassigned item and update the action you have to specify 'including non-participating'
[16:27] <ddstreet> does seem like just a subset of the process action
[16:27] <mapreri> as you'd like
[16:28] <ddstreet> ack, yeah just administriva details - i'll update next mtg's agenda with them folded togehter
[16:28] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:28] <ddstreet> don't think this is done?
[16:28] <mapreri> nope
[16:28] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:28] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)
[16:28] <mapreri> and nobody likes dechange's code, so it'll likely stay there for a while :3
[16:28] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs
[16:29] <ddstreet> i think this is an important one we should get assigned either now, or next mtg
[16:29] <mapreri> looking at my own todo list, I'd rather not take this one myself, sorry
[16:29] <ddstreet> ok
[16:30] <ddstreet> teward you have time? if not we can carry it to next mtg
[16:30] <ddstreet> assign it then
[16:30] <ddstreet> ok let's just carry it
[16:30] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs
[16:30] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs
[16:31] <ddstreet> #subtopic make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog
[16:31] <ddstreet> i haven't actually checked this
[16:31] <mapreri> it's not there
[16:31] <ddstreet> ok i'll take it, should be a quick change
[16:31] <mapreri> ack
[16:31] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog
[16:31] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog
[16:31] <ddstreet> ok that's all the action items!
[16:31] <mapreri> alright
[16:31] <ddstreet> let's move to AOB?
[16:32] <mapreri> yes pls
[16:32] <ddstreet> #topic AOB
[16:32] <mapreri> Q:
[16:32] <mapreri> do we want to enforce bugs also for trivial updates of already backported things?
[16:33] <mapreri> Case that happened: a guy already had their bpo approved and already there.  they uploaded an updated that I accidentally noticed the other day, and after looking at it, it just felt fine to approve it…  but there wasn't a bug.  tbh this felt mostly "fine" to me, but perhaps we want more tracking for some reason?
[16:33] <ddstreet> i think we dont need them if it's trivial...but if the reviewer rejects, the rejection comment should probably ask for a bug opened to discuss it
[16:33] <mapreri> s/an updated/an update/
[16:33] <mapreri> the rejection case sounds fair, yep
[16:34] <teward> i got called to fix something sorry
[16:34] <ddstreet> yeah basically i think we agree, ok to upload without a bug for simple backports, we can request a bug if we have any concerns, yeah?
[16:34] <teward> ddstreet: for super simple i agree, for anything that requires any deviation from 'simple' then it needs a bug
[16:34] <teward> my 2 cents
[16:34] <mapreri> k.  do we want to make this written, or just keep it as a tribal knowledge, so people don't get over-excited of skipping bugs?
[16:34] <teward> i'd keep it as tribal knowledge
[16:35] <teward> because we don't want to *encourage* skipping the processes
[16:35] <teward> or make people think that 'what's simple to them is actually a simple case that doesn't need a bpo bug"
[16:35] <ddstreet> well, that leaves it ambigous for reviewers as well
[16:35] <ddstreet> i'd say we work out specific wording for an 'acceptable' no-bug backport?
[16:35] <teward> agreed
[16:36] <teward> and potentially detail some examples
[16:36] <ddstreet> like 'if there are no code changes and the package is already in the target backport pocket' or something like that?
[16:36] <teward> > if there are no code changes
[16:36] <teward> that's where i start saying "Define code changes"
[16:36] <mapreri> that sounds like a job for another #action to propose a fine wording.  The term "trivial" is clearly too ambiguous too
[16:36] <ddstreet> should we work out the specific wording on ML? I can start a thread...I just started my other mtg, so my attention is divided now :(
[16:36] <teward> yes lets start on specific wording on the ML
[16:36] <mapreri> yeah
[16:36] <ddstreet> yep definitely 'trivial' can mean different things :)
[16:37] <teward> i'm diverted to my FT job because somehting's on 'fire'
[16:37] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet start thread on ML to clarify wording for no-bug-required backports
[16:37] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet start thread on ML to clarify wording for no-bug-required backports
[16:37] <mapreri> teward's job is clearly too hot, being on fire so often /o\
[16:37] <ddstreet> lol
[16:37] <teward> lol
[16:37] <ddstreet> yeah
[16:37] <ddstreet> i hope you have a fireproof suit teward
[16:37] <teward> mapreri: not my fault that the one team that has yielded their stuff to IT at my FT job are all using legacy/EOL crap
[16:37] <teward> literally EOL crap that i'm having to use bits of my UA-I seats for temporarily >.>
[16:37] <teward> (8.04 anyone?)
[16:38] <teward> (that's the oldest i'm currently porting stuff to a 20.04 system for)
[16:38] <mapreri> I knoe the fealing, having inherited a bunch of 14.04 myself... or so I though but at least it doesn't get to single-digit releases
[16:38] <teward> ddstreet: i'm literally fireproof now heh
[16:38] <teward> mapreri: two 12.04s, six 14.04s, one 8.04
[16:38] <teward> but i digress
[16:38] <mapreri> yep
[16:39] <mapreri> alright, ddstreet: let's close up? :)
[16:39] <teward> the old stuff is breaking so i keep having to move things into emergency migration mode
[16:39] <teward> yep yep
[16:39] <ddstreet> sounds good, last call for anything else?
[16:39] <ddstreet> 5...
[16:39] <ddstreet> 4...
[16:39] <ddstreet> 3...
[16:39] <ddstreet> 2...
[16:39] <teward> give coffee?
[16:39] <teward> :P
[16:39] <ddstreet> 1...
[16:39] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[16:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:39:48 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-01-26-16.04.moin.txt
[16:39] <teward> (no other buisness from me)
[16:39] <mapreri> ty both, o/
[16:39] <ddstreet> thanks all!
[16:40] <teward> thank you!
[21:49]  * genii sweeps up and washes the coffeepot
[22:40] <nicoz> o/
[22:55] <nicoz> genii: Don’t drink too many cups of coffee, which are not good
[22:56] <nicoz> :P
[23:04] <nicoz> Wasn’t there supposed to be a meeting right now?