[01:19] <fikran_> Hi all! I have an ubuntu server that is headless. I want to have the serial port function as a terminal. Are there instructions on how to do that?
[01:19] <fikran_> Its running Ubuntu 20.04
[01:25] <jhutchins> "A serial console can be used to administrate a system or capture kernel crash/panic information.
[01:25] <jhutchins>              https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/serial-console.html .  You will also want your bootloader to use the
[01:25] <jhutchins>              serial console"
[03:49] <fikran> hi all. does anyone know if there is a way to have a console port function as a terminal?
[03:49] <fikran> i recall there is a way, but I haven't been abl eto figure it out.
[03:51] <zer0fun> fikran. I found and article about it.  Its from 2018 but it seems fairly straight forward.  Would you like me to send it to you?
[03:53] <zer0fun> I thought I would ask again, I have been trying all day to disable vsync on my ubuntu 20.04 install.  I get terrible frame rates with it enabled and I just can't find a solution
[04:14] <fikran> zer0fun: figured it out
[04:14] <fikran> its a systemd service...
[04:14] <fikran> wow, that was confusing.
[04:14] <fikran> and unnecessarily difficult
[04:15] <Marmotte> fikran: once you know this, it's a single simple command to run to enable a new console :)
[04:16] <leftyfb> fikran: you mean to start and enable serial-getty@ttyS0.service ?
[04:17] <fikran> yes.
[04:17] <fikran> i had to edit it
[04:17] <fikran> I'm new'ish to systemd (still). I'm coming from FreeBSD
[04:17] <leftyfb> what did you have to edit?
[04:17] <fikran> uff.../lib/systemd/...I lost the path...
[04:17] <fikran> I'm sorry
[04:18] <leftyfb> fikran: I mean what did you have to change in the file exactly?
[04:18] <fikran> /lib/systemd/system/serial-getty@.service
[04:19] <leftyfb> fikran: right, what did you have to change in the file exactly?
[04:19] <fikran> Changed the ExecStart to this: ExecStart=-/sbin/getty -L 115200 %I vt102
[04:19] <fikran> then restarted the service with ttyS0 as the option
[04:19] <fikran> and it worked
[04:19] <fikran> I'm using it as a backup
[04:22] <leftyfb> fikran: you didn't actually have to edit it
[04:22] <leftyfb> fikran: sudo systemctl enable serial-getty@ttyS0.service && sudo systemctl start serial-getty@ttyS0.service
[04:23] <leftyfb> fikran: editing it was the wrong way. You should put it back
[04:23] <Marmotte> (you can enable --now to do both operations in a single command :P)
[04:23] <leftyfb> or that
[04:24] <leftyfb> fikran: enabling serial-getty@ttyS0.service creates a link back to /lib/systemd/system/ serial-getty@.service, but since the link name has the @ttyS0, it knows it's for the 1st serial port
[04:27] <Marmotte> even if the command is wrong for a reason, adding a drop-in override is a cleaner way to change it, instead of editing files installed from packages :)
[04:28] <leftyfb> fikran: right, if you're going to edit a service, do:   sudo systemctl edit serial-getty@.service    # and then make your changes. That will create an override and not edit the file in /lib
[04:29] <gevreeen> is ubuntu and subsidiaries of canonical, in particular launchpad.net subject to US export restrictions?
[04:29] <gevreeen> s/and/alongside/
[04:30] <leftyfb> gevreeen: ask in #launchpad or contact Canonical
[04:30] <gevreeen> what of ubuntu then?
[04:30] <leftyfb> gevreeen: it's software downloadable from the internet
[04:30] <gevreeen> only ubuntu and launchpad is of concern to me
[04:31] <gevreeen> leftyfb: but does the export restriction apply when I hand the downloaded software to a third party?
[04:31] <Rockwood> o/
[04:32] <Rockwood> rockwood@cyberia:~$ ping registry.npmjs.org
[04:32] <Rockwood> ping: registry.npmjs.org: Temporary failure in name resolution
[04:32] <Rockwood> i am facing this error
[04:32] <leftyfb> gevreeen: Canonical is a UK based company
[04:32] <gevreeen> try dig on registry.npmjs.org, Rockwood?
[04:33] <Rockwood> means?
[04:33] <leftyfb> Rockwood: can you resolve other hosts on the internet?
[04:33] <gevreeen> meaning just "dig registry.npmjs.org a" or s/a/aaaa/
[04:34] <gevreeen> or drill if you run the unbound toolchain
[04:34] <leftyfb> gevreeen: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/understanding-us-export-controls-and-open-source-projects-2021-update/
[04:34] <gevreeen> leftyfb: nice articles. my thanks!
[04:35] <Rockwood> gevreeen, https://dpaste.com/763N8HTQE
[04:35] <leftyfb> Rockwood: can you resolve other hosts on the internet?
[04:35] <Rockwood> rockwood@cyberia:~$ ping www.google.com
[04:35] <Rockwood> ping: www.google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
[04:36] <leftyfb> !paste | Rockwood
[04:36] <Rockwood> unable to resolve others too
[04:36] <gevreeen> do you even have a dns server set up in /etc/resolv.conf?
[04:36] <gevreeen> (which points a loop-back address)
[04:36] <leftyfb> Rockwood: systemd-resolve --status | grep "DNS Servers"
[04:37] <Rockwood> leftyfb, ok
[04:37] <Rockwood> done but still the same issue
[04:37] <leftyfb> Rockwood: what did the command result in?
[04:38] <leftyfb> Rockwood: it should spit out an ip address, maybe 2
[04:39] <Rockwood> leftyfb, https://dpaste.com/FAPDQFRWM no result
[04:39] <gevreeen> if you could dig/drill the name with @74.82.42.42 then you have a configuration problem, or you have a network problem
[04:39] <Marmotte> systemd-resolve has been replaced by resolvectl a while ago
[04:39] <leftyfb> Rockwood: dpaste isn't working. Either way, you don't have a DNS server configured.
[04:39] <gevreeen> leftyfb: or a caching server who listens on loopback
[04:40] <leftyfb> Rockwood: what version of ubuntu is this?
[04:40] <Rockwood> Welcome to Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS (GNU/Linux 5.4.0-91-generic x86_64)
[04:40] <leftyfb> Rockwood: desktop or server?
[04:40] <gevreeen> if it's a caching server, then you need check the upstream dns
[04:41] <leftyfb> gevreeen: I got this, you are going way too far into the weeds
[04:41] <Rockwood> VM based OS
[04:41] <Rockwood> leftyfb, ^^
[04:41] <leftyfb> Rockwood: which hypervisor?
[04:42] <Rockwood> what is means of hypervisor?
[04:42] <gevreeen> a vm
[04:42] <gevreeen> for example kvm/xen
[04:42] <leftyfb> Rockwood: which Virtual Machine software are you using on the host?
[04:43] <n-iCe> Guys, just bought a new laptop, AMD A10-8700P Radeon R6, 12GB RAM, SSD 256GB HDD 1TB, just installed Ubuntu, how am I sure if all drivers were the correct ones and all installed?
[04:43] <n-iCe> most important the graphics ones
[04:43] <leftyfb> n-iCe: does everything work?
[04:43] <n-iCe> leftyfb: yes, but slower than Windows. Which makes me think something is not correct.
[04:43] <gevreeen> well, lsmod is your friend and look for amdgpu
[04:44] <leftyfb> n-iCe: run: ubuntu-drivers
[04:44] <n-iCe> with list I guess?
[04:45] <leftyfb> Rockwood: yeah, sorry
[04:46] <n-iCe> I'm not getting any outputs
[04:46] <leftyfb> n-iCe: you can also just open the Software & Updates util and click on the Additional Drivers tab
[04:46] <gevreeen> this reminds me of those years when we could get a ubuntu/kubuntu live cd mailed to the door alongside opensolaris
[04:48] <gevreeen> and those people are always in need of someone troubleshooting
[04:48] <leftyfb> gevreeen: lets stay on topic please. Feel free to join #ubuntu-discuss or #ubuntu-offtopic for chatting
[04:49] <gevreeen> ah, all right.
[04:50] <leftyfb> Rockwood: did you get your issue sorted?
[04:54] <Rockwood> no
[04:54] <Rockwood> sorry i was doing breakfast
[04:54] <Rockwood> leftyfb, yes
[04:55] <leftyfb> Rockwood: What Virtual Machine software are you running on the host? Is the Ubuntu 20.04 guest OS a server or desktop? Does it have a GUI?
[04:56] <Rockwood> its not GUI
[04:56] <Rockwood> server
[04:56] <leftyfb> Rockwood: ok, What Virtual Machine software are you running on the host?
[04:56] <Rockwood> Oracle VM VirtualBox
[04:57] <leftyfb> Rockwood: is the networking the default NAT or a bridged interface?
[04:57] <Rockwood> i have to chk
[04:57] <gevreeen> (and possibly a network namespace)
[04:57] <Rockwood> bcz i forget settings
[04:58] <leftyfb> gevreeen: it's VirtualBox, there's no namespacing. Please stop taking this 4 levels deeper than it needs to be
[04:59] <Rockwood> NAT network is empty
[05:00] <leftyfb> Rockwood: what do you mean by empty?
[05:00] <Rockwood> 2 sec sharing screen shot
[05:04] <lord_daemon> Can anyone help with one of these questions:
[05:04] <lord_daemon> - some website that offers free shell;
[05:04] <lord_daemon> - some website that offers free BNC/PSYBNC (bouncer)
[05:05] <leftyfb> !ot | lord_daemon
[05:05] <Rockwood> leftyfb, https://ibb.co/GRCyyTX
[05:06] <leftyfb> Rockwood: how did you configure the networking on your Ubuntu guest?
[05:08] <Rockwood> from where i can chk it?
[05:08] <leftyfb> Rockwood: cat /etc/netplan/*
[05:09] <Rockwood> leftyfb, https://dpaste.com/74RUGRUCL
[05:10] <leftyfb> Rockwood: please stop using dpaste, it's a very poor pastebin site
[05:10] <n-iCe> one more thing guys, my cpu is not going over 1.8Ghz how to set it free? lol supposed to be max to 3.2Ghz
[05:10] <tykling> leftyfb: how is it a poor pastebin site
[05:10] <leftyfb> n-iCe: maybe don't worry about that until you actually need it
[05:11] <leftyfb> tykling: "DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN"
[05:11] <leftyfb> tykling: it's intermittent
[05:11] <tykling> uh, what?
[05:11] <n-iCe> leftyfb:  might be the reason why the laptop feels slow you know
[05:12]  * mybbgirl  https://www.mybbgirl.com BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP 20% Extra Credit. www.mybbgirl.com 
[05:12] <leftyfb> !op | mybbgirl
[05:14] <leftyfb> Rockwood: ?
[05:14] <leftyfb> Rockwood: try termbin.com, pastebin.com or pastebin.ubuntu.com
[05:15] <gevreeen> leftyfb: wow, what did that line just do?
[05:15] <Rockwood> ok
[05:15] <leftyfb> gevreeen: ?
[05:15] <gevreeen> the line ending with "mybbgirl"
[05:15] <leftyfb> gevreeen: it's spam, ignore it
[05:16] <Rockwood> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/xgPR5hZPjw/
[05:16] <Rockwood> leftyfb, ^^
[05:17] <leftyfb> Rockwood: ok, so you did manually edit your network config. You have 1 interface on DHCP and the other with a static ip but no DNS configured
[05:17] <leftyfb> Rockwood: https://netplan.io/examples/
[05:18] <Rockwood> so now
[05:19] <leftyfb> Rockwood: why do you have 2 network interfaces configured for the VM?
[05:19] <Rockwood> one for internet i think
[05:19] <leftyfb> :/
[05:19] <Rockwood> one for ssh and other stuff
[05:19] <leftyfb> Rockwood: what is the purpose of this VM?
[05:20] <Rockwood> for backend of my app
[05:20] <Rockwood> even my node also there
[05:20] <Rockwood> oops node react
[05:20] <leftyfb> Rockwood: shut the VM down, delete the 2nd network interface and boot it back up. You should be fine at that point
[05:20] <Rockwood> but it was working
[05:21] <leftyfb> Rockwood: do you have other VM's that this machine talks to?
[05:21] <Rockwood> after delete my setting will be disturb
[05:22] <Rockwood> yes other OS also in
[05:22] <leftyfb> Rockwood: is the 2nd interface set to NAT or bridged?
[05:25] <leftyfb> Rockwood: hello?
[05:25] <Rockwood> yes
[05:26] <leftyfb> Rockwood: if you'd like help, you really need to focus on the task at hand and be a bit more responsive to answering questions.
[05:26] <leftyfb> Rockwood: is the 2nd interface set to NAT or bridged?
[05:26] <Rockwood> 2 sec i was on call
[05:26] <Rockwood> now free
[05:26] <Rockwood> let me chk
[05:27] <Rockwood> first one on NAT
[05:27] <Rockwood> second having Host only Adapter
[05:27] <leftyfb> Rockwood: what's the point?
[05:28] <leftyfb> Rockwood: why would you have a NAT and a host only(with a static ip)?
[05:29] <Rockwood> it was created by another person
[05:29] <Rockwood> so i don't know the proper reason
[05:30] <Rockwood> 64 bytes from 192.168.200.200: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.036 ms
[05:31] <leftyfb> Rockwood: shut the VM down, delete the 2nd network interface and boot it back up. Leave the single interface on NAT and set to DHCP. If you need more than that, you need to spend some time learning and understanding basic networking, mainly NATing, bridged and how to configure netplan properly
[05:31] <Rockwood> okay
[05:32] <leftyfb> Rockwood: if the machine needs a static ip on the main physical network, it needs to be bridged. You do not need a static ip to access the vm from your host machine
[06:21] <n-iCe> hi
[07:31] <fdan> hi there
[07:31] <fdan> i keep getting this error
[07:31] <fdan> https://dpaste.org/53XZ
[07:34] <Bashing-om> fdan: See: http://ppa.launchpad.net/damien-moore/codeblocks-stable/ubuntu/dists/ - that the author has not upgraded the ap for bionic.
[07:35] <fdan> Bashing-om what can be done
[07:37] <chronon> Is Unity desktop still supported?
[07:37] <hello-smile6> Probably
[07:39] <Bashing-om> fdan: Contact damien-moore and see what his plan is - also in respect to the Debian repo: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian -- the reverse holds true too.
[07:39] <Bashing-om> !unity | chronon
[07:40] <fdan> Bashing-om can anything else be done to fix this
[07:41] <Bashing-om> fdan: Well of ya remove the source - the error notice will go away. Agerall the source is bob-supported in bionic.
[07:41] <fdan> whre is the source located?
[07:41] <Bashing-om> afterall*
[07:41] <chronon> Yes, I am using Unity, but I am fearful to upgrade to a later Ubuntu release because there seems to be a prevalence of apps that do not work neatly with Unity.
[07:42] <Bashing-om> Non-supported ** sheesh :(
[07:43] <chronon> For example, I tested a later release and even after installing Unity, I had lots of apps with buttons in the title bar of the windows, so obviously the titlebars did not merge seamlessly into the Unity menu bar, instead they took up gobs of wasted space.
[07:44] <chronon> Who on earth thought to put buttons in window title bars?
[07:44] <fdan> hi there, when i do a ls on /var/lib/apt/lists
[07:44] <fdan> i dont see the file that has codeblocks or damien moore
[07:44] <chronon> I cannot live with that. So I'm wondering how to get the sleek well-integrated Unity experience on later Ubuntu releases. Does anyone know?
[07:49] <alkisg> chronon: the trend in gnome is to use such buttons and popovers and a lot of other stuff we see in chrome/android. The only way to avoid that afaik is not to use anything based on gnome, i.e. to use kde
[07:49] <alkisg> (which of course is in major conflict with the "unity" requirement)
[07:50] <Bashing-om> fdan: ' cat -n /etc/apt/sources.list ' but chances are wull find then in the 3rd party directory ' tail -v -n +1 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* ' .
[07:51] <chronon> alkisg, wow, so this infection of mobile design in a desktop GUI is deliberate?
[07:52] <alkisg> chronon: yeah, many users left gnome because of that
[07:52] <chronon> Mobile needs big fat buttons for fat fingers, but on a desktop system it is just wasteful of screen real estate.
[07:52] <alkisg> E.g. I"m using MATE, and some of the apps are from gnome, so I do see these silly burger buttons
[07:52] <chronon> Would I lose some of my favourite apps if I leave Gnome for KDE?
[07:53] <alkisg> You can install the apps you want. If they're from gnome, they'll keep their big buttons
[07:53] <chronon> Damn, there's no escape?
[07:54] <alkisg> Maybe someone could dig into the libraries and pull the buttons from there and put them e.g. in normal menus, but I doubt any sane developer would want to chase after them like that
[07:54] <chronon> Who is setting such a policy and what can possibly be the advantage of it?
[07:54] <fdan> Bashing-om https://dpaste.org/qgFO
[07:55] <alkisg> chronon: eh, these questions are outside of what can be discussed in #ubuntu, but in general, redhat sets the gnome human interface guidelines
[07:55] <Bashing-om> fdan: run in teminal ' apt show codeblocks ' . is this the sdame as what was in the PPA ?
[07:55] <fdan> http://dpaste.org/gE49
[07:55] <alkisg> When the bar is "what is the UI that facebook / android users are used to?", then productivity takes a big dive
[07:56] <chronon> Hmmm, so if I want to stick with Ubuntu, but absolutely do not want to have huge buttons in title bars, what are my options?
[07:56] <matsaman> alkisg: psyops? =)
[07:56] <alkisg> matsaman: nah, plain disappointment :)
[07:56] <chronon> I liked Unity because it stayed out of the way and maximised application workspace.
[07:56] <matsaman> alkisg: heh
[07:57] <matsaman> chronon: what're you using now, GNOME 3 without Unity?
[07:57] <alkisg> chronon: reusing the titlebar for buttons saves even more space; and you even save the left unity bar. If space is the goal, then gnome is better than unity
[07:57] <fdan> Bashing-om http://dpaste.org/j77V
[07:57] <gevreeen> I never ran the Unity *Desktop*, but does it have something to do with the *Unity* engine who maintains a fork of mono/dotnet?
[07:58] <chronon> I have an onld Unity system and a VM running Gnome that I hate with a burning passion because of the appalling waste of space on buttons that are in the wrong place anyway.
[07:58] <chronon> This has held me back from upgrading Ubuntu for years now, but it cannot go on.
[07:58] <matsaman> gevreeen: the game engine? No
[07:58] <matsaman> just a dumb english word that people like to name lots of different projects
[07:59] <chronon> I need to make a decision about whether I can stay on Ubuntu, (and keep my users on Ubuntu), or whether I just have to abandon it and retrain on a while new distro.
[07:59] <alkisg> Desktop environments != distributions
[07:59] <gevreeen> well, U.E. could stand for Unity of the Empire. we should refrain from labelling any word *dumb* on its own
[08:00] <fdan> Bashing-om http://dpaste.org/j77V
[08:00] <fdan> anything to fix?
[08:00] <gevreeen> a better alternative would be *overused*
[08:01] <chronon> alkisg, I do not see how giant bat buttons in title bars, takign up about three times the screen area *below* the menu bar, can possibly be seens as a saving over just the menu bar with title bar merged into it.
[08:01] <matsaman> chronon: I'm sure you can have whatever you want, with an up-to-date system
[08:01] <Bashing-om> fdan: Ehat I am asking you is if codeblocks from " apt show " is the same package as you got from the PPA - - maybe the PPA version has mograted to mainline and we can:
[08:01] <Bashing-om> !ppa-purge | fdan
[08:01] <matsaman> chronon: I don't really know what change it is you're disliking, though
[08:02] <matsaman> chronon: screenshot?
[08:02] <alkisg> chronon: there's no menu now => space saved. Anyways, even if we agree on that, you cannot change the gnome HIG (guidelines) from this channel
[08:03] <chronon> The huge buttons in title bars of windows is what I object to. The title bars of such windows no longer disappear into the Unity menu bar, they take up twice as much space below it, and often that's for buttons I rarely use, and there's no way to collape them away.
[08:03] <alkisg> There's no unity menu bar. The bigger title bars are for hi-dpi
[08:03] <chronon> That's the other issue, you've just reminded me, many of these new style apps have no menu, so discovering functionality by browsing a menu is impossible.
[08:04] <matsaman> chronon: still don't know what you're talking about, but I'm sure you can change them or use something else mostly the same but without them
[08:04] <matsaman> chronon: you should probably switch to Xfce and be wary of GTK changes in general
[08:05] <alkisg> chronon: anyways, my goal in a DE is productivity, not saving screen space; so I'm preferring MATE and KDE; while saving space is a goal for GNOME and Unity; I can't defend any of these too...
[08:05] <chronon> Some of these new style apps have a button in the title bar that I believe means Menu, but the menu that appears is never complete. And instead of opening up as the mouse passes over, you have to keep clicking and watching an animation as the submenu slides into place. Productivity killer.
[08:05] <alkisg> *two
[08:06] <chronon> So can anyone tell me about MATE? Is it as mature as Unity was, with good support for multiscrreen and hi dpi, and so on?
[08:07] <matsaman> chronon: it's basically GNOME 2, so fairly mature
[08:07] <chronon> That sounds good.
[08:07] <matsaman> Unity was never that mature, it was pretty experimental its entire time
[08:08] <alkisg> I left vanilla Ubuntu for MATE when they started Unity, so I can't really compare them. I can tell you that it's mature/stable though.
[08:08] <matsaman> but you could probably still use Unity now if you want
[08:08] <chronon> Maybe but it worked really well for me.
[08:09] <chronon> I wonder if I could install Unity under Ubuntu MATE. That would presumably give me a space saving desktop, plus apps that were properly designed for a desktop environment instead of trying to look like smartphone apps. Right?
[08:10] <matsaman> so
[08:10] <matsaman> I'm not 100% sure which Unity experience you're talking about
[08:10] <matsaman> but Unity was basically a window manager combined with what mostly was GNOME 3
[08:10] <alkisg> chronon: the apps are the same in any distribution and desktop environment
[08:10] <matsaman> now Ubuntu is apparently using plain entirely GNOME 3
[08:11] <matsaman> if you can get unity7/8/lomiri whatever to install & run, you can probably use it with GNOME 3 in a similar fashion
[08:11] <alkisg> If the applications you're using have been upgraded to the new gnome guidelines, they'll be the same in any distro/de
[08:11] <matsaman> but sure, MATE/MATE+Unity might give you a similar experience to what you were used to also
[08:11] <chronon> Ah, so using MATE is not going to save me from the fat title bar buttons?
[08:11] <alkisg> chronon: for example, mate has *forked* gedit into pluma. Pluma doesn't have these buttons
[08:11] <matsaman> chronon: well, it might not, but my point is that you likely do not need to make such a large change to avoid this issue
[08:12] <alkisg> But this is true only for the "desktop environment apps", not for "additional apps"
[08:12] <chronon> Ah, so MATE is philosophically againt the fat title bar buttons? If so, I want to give them money.
[08:12] <alkisg> MATE emerged as a fork of gnome2 because they didn't like the new directions, yeah
[08:13] <alkisg> But for example, 2-3 applications in mate are not forked, so they still have the big buttons. They might get forked in the future.
[08:13] <matsaman> chronon: it probably is
[08:13] <chronon> It is amazing to me that someone, RedHat?, is able to do something so destructive to the user experience, and push it out into every other desktop and distro whether they ant it or not. How does that level of influence and control come about?
[08:13] <matsaman> chronon: MATE spawned from people being philosophically against a ton of GNOME changes
[08:14] <matsaman> chronon: no not Red Hat, this time
[08:14] <alkisg> chronon: they're the ones that pay the developers that write the code
[08:14] <matsaman> the leadership of the GNOME project has long been kinda bananas
[08:14] <matsaman> KDE made a similar huge change, too, though
[08:14] <chronon> bananas? Please elaborate.
[08:14] <matsaman> it's hard to find projects that set goals, meet those goals, and then _stop tinkering_
[08:15] <matsaman> unfortunately that's the human condition
[08:15] <matsaman> Xfce is a pretty good example, though
[08:15] <chronon> I'm totally with you matsaman. I just want stability. Get it right and then stop fiddling.
[08:15] <matsaman> I've had very few surprises with Xfce over many, many yeras
[08:15] <matsaman> years*
[08:16] <chronon> There is an Ubuntu Xfce flavour I think. Can't remember its name.
[08:16] <chronon> Xubuntu?
[08:17] <chronon> Is that still well supported?
[08:17] <matsaman> sure, but you can just install Xfce or the desktop metapackage
[08:17] <matsaman> I'm beginning to think you're talking about a GTK change, though
[08:17] <matsaman> it's annoying how much GTK is tied to GNOME, but
[08:17] <matsaman> you can simply config your way out of this
[08:17] <matsaman> if you've never had to config your way out of a change you didn't like before, consider yourself lucky
[08:17] <matsaman> this won't be the last time
[08:18] <chronon> I have to suppurt a number of other people (friends, clients, family) so I'm looking for an out of the box experience as much as is possible.
[08:18] <matsaman> yeah, but
[08:18] <matsaman> you're not going to find something that never changes
[08:18] <matsaman> _one_ change you don't like that you can config around is not a good reason, IMO, to swtich your entire stack
[08:18] <chronon> Why do you think I like LTS releases?
[08:18] <matsaman> especially if it's tied to GTK in general and not merely GNOME in particular
[08:18] <matsaman> chronon: you tell me?
[08:19] <chronon> Stability.
[08:19] <matsaman> LTS isn't really about stability
[08:19] <matsaman> it's about putting off updates
[08:19] <matsaman> it only gives you a longer amount of time to figure out your update path
[08:19] <chronon> I have work to do. I don't want to waste part of every day fretting over how to reverse config changes that were pushed onto me.
[08:19] <matsaman> I feel you, truly
[08:19] <matsaman> but if you switch your whole DE, you could easily have two problems instead of one
[08:20] <chronon> Yaeah, there is that.
[08:20] <matsaman> that said, I will say again, switching to Xfce might make you much happier in the long run
[08:20] <alkisg> XFCE will still have the big buttons for their extra GNOME apps
[08:21] <matsaman> yup, a GNOME app will be a GNOME app, no matter what you run it from
[08:21] <alkisg> KDE too. No DE too. The buttons are in the app, not in the DE.
[08:21] <matsaman> if you have GNOME apps you can't replace (weird, but arguably possible), you'll be in trouble
[08:22] <chronon> So I want to choose carefully and then go all in on a DE that is philosophically committed to a stable and productive environment, that doesn't waste space, and doesn't chase new gimmicks for the sake of it.
[08:22] <matsaman> from some casual browsing, it seems like a pretty simple CSS-style rule you can pop into your GTK config
[08:22] <matsaman> which will probably work for the lifespan of GTK 3
[08:22] <matsaman> er, 4 I guess
[08:22] <matsaman> chronon: sounds smart
[08:23] <matsaman> I'd say Xfce is the easiest choice to investigate at this time
[08:23] <matsaman> GNOME & KDE have both betrayed their users to varying extents, in the name of being as macOS-like as possible, and other odd goals they have
[08:23] <chronon> So are Inkscape, GIMP, Audacity, etc, considered to be Gnome apps?
[08:24] <matsaman> not Inkscape & Audacity I don't think
[08:24] <matsaman> GIMP might be
[08:25] <matsaman> yeah, GIMP probably is
[08:25] <chronon> I wonder why Gnome did not provide a config option, so that people could still get the tranditional layout, and not be forced into putting fat buttons in title bars.
[08:25] <matsaman> they did, but I know what you mean -- and _easy_ config option
[08:25] <matsaman> that isn't GNOME's way
[08:25] <matsaman> they like to hide things, like macOS
[08:26] <matsaman> an* _easy
[08:26] <chronon> So are you saying there *is* a config options I could apply?
[08:26] <matsaman> yup
[08:26] <chronon> To globally turn off the fat buttons?
[08:27] <chronon> And restore the full and complete app menus?
[08:27] <matsaman> almost certainly
[08:27] <alkisg> The developers go to their code and remove the menus and replace them with popovers etc. You can't undo hard code removal. You can only mitigate some stuff by moving the popover elsewhere.
[08:28] <chronon> Well, what is the config option you are alluding to?
[08:29] <chronon> And if the code for menus and sensibly placed dialogue buttons has actually been hacked out of the code base of numerous large important apps, then I tihnk the whole world has gone bonkers.
[08:31] <alkisg> That's exactly the reason why migrating an app from gtk2 to gtk3 may take months, and then to gtk4 more months. For gimp, it needs years...
[08:31] <matsaman> it's a total pain in the butt sometimes, but you should be able to fix it from GTK's regular config/style system
[08:31] <alkisg> But functions get deprecated and then removed in later versions; if you want your app to keep using gtk, you need to obey
[08:32] <matsaman> gtk.css or something
[08:36] <matsaman> if you can find an engine other than adwaita that you like, that might be enough, too
[08:37] <matsaman> other than adwaita or yaru*
[08:48] <chronon> Hmmm, I have much to learn it seems. Perhaps it's too much swimming against the tide.
[08:50] <chronon> I'm shocked that the Gnome people can do so much damage to the world of open source apps, and there not be a practical way for anyoen to avoid that damage.
[08:51] <chronon> I wonder what political or economic structures exist to be able to fight against what Gnome are doing.
[08:52] <chronon> I bet it comes down to just a handful of powerfully positioned people.
[08:53] <chronon> It's odd to me that so many open source authors feel forced to comply.
[08:54] <matsaman> oh there's a really easy way
[08:54] <matsaman> don't use their software
[08:54] <matsaman> it's hard work maintaining software
[08:54] <matsaman> I'm honestly amazed MATE still exists
[08:54] <matsaman> it'd be nice if someone forked GTK and stopped fiddling with it for a while
[08:55] <chronon> Or maybe they are drinking the coolaid too. Maybe I should get myself some of that and convince myself that fat buttons and thick titlebars are really a space saving rather than a waste of scpace, and that limiting the accessibility and discoverability of menus is somehow a good thing.
[08:55] <matsaman> I don't think I'd worry about the space, but
[08:55] <matsaman> not sure I care for the style regardless
[08:55] <matsaman> anyway, I'm not sure why you use open source software, but this is the #1 reason I do
[08:55] <dkjfk> combining tittlebars with toolbars definitely saves space
[08:56] <matsaman> I can fix anything without having to find complete alternatives to switch to
[08:56] <matsaman> so I save time in the long run by not having to relearn entire systems
[08:56] <chronon> I care about space in my terminal windows, every line of code I'm editing is more valuable when I can see it.
[08:56] <matsaman> seeing all the code at once isn't realistic =)
[08:57] <chronon> Same with graphical apps like GIMP and Inkscape. I want to see more. I don't want to give up a whle inch of screen to a super fat title bar.
[08:58] <matsaman> they certainly have poor leadership, but most projects have
[08:59] <chronon> I was, perhaps naively, under the impression that open source projects did not suffer from the design by pointy haired boss syndrome.
[09:00] <chronon> Where did the freedom go?
[09:02] <lotus|TUX> !ot
[09:11] <matsaman> lotus|TUX: boy you really cleared the way for all the rest of the 4am conversation =P
[09:13] <lotus|TUX> we got some nice channels to discuss & chat in matsaman
[13:08] <B1773rm4n> Any recommendations or warnings regarding webcam companies?
[13:09] <B1773rm4n> I plan to get a new webcam but want to avoid those which aren't UVC compliant
[13:12] <Maik> B1773rm4n: since it's not a ubuntu related support question try asking in #ubuntu-offtopic, #linux or #hardware...?
[13:46] <ice9> why apt installs snap packages instead?
[13:48] <leftyfb> ice9: which package?
[13:48] <ice9> leftyfb, chromium browser
[13:48] <leftyfb> ice9: chromium has only been available as a snap in ubuntu for years
[13:49] <ice9> leftyfb, what about google chrome?
[13:49] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[13:50] <leftyfb> ice9: google chrome is provided by google as a .deb from their own repository. It is not available in ubuntu
[13:52] <lotus|TUX> ice9: try falkon browser as apt alternate
[13:52] <leftyfb> ice9: mind you, the Falkon browser is completely unsupported here
[13:53] <lotus|TUX> its on our repos leftyfb
[13:54] <leftyfb> lotus|TUX: ah, sorry about that.
[13:55] <lotus|TUX> pretty nifty lightweight, i reccomend
[14:20] <coz_> hello all
[14:23] <izzy_> Hi, I'm on Ubuntu 20.04.3. How do I install a pkg-config file for udisks2?
[14:25] <leftyfb> izzy_: like any other package. But why do you need pkg-config for udisks2? Did you try just: sudo apt install udisks2?
[14:27] <izzy_> leftyfb: I need it for an application I maintain that uses udisks2, so the CMake file is looking for it. sudo apt install udisks2 doesn't do anything because it's installed by default on this version of Ubuntu if I'm not mistaken.
[14:27] <izzy_> But yes, I tried that, and apt told me udisks2 was already installed.
[14:27] <leftyfb> izzy_: then you're done.
[14:27] <izzy_> There is no udisks2.pc file in /usr/lib/pkgconfig though
[14:28] <izzy_> And cmake can't find udisks2 either.
[14:29] <leftyfb> izzy_: libudisks2-dev
[14:30] <izzy_> Ah thanks, I was trying stuff, how did you find the name of that package?
[14:30] <BluesKaj> check your package manager
[14:30] <BluesKaj> :-)
[14:30] <leftyfb> izzy_: apt-file search udisks2.pc    # but also, you should be installing the dev libraries of packages if you want to compile against it.
[14:31] <izzy_> leftyfb: Right, I suppose the convention is lib<package_name>-dev?
[14:31] <leftyfb> sometimes
[14:33] <izzy_> Ok cool. Thanks again, my Ubuntu build is working again!
[16:17] <BlackMage> whatis the recommend kernel version for Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS?
[16:18] <Maik> the current one is 5.13.0-28-generic
[16:23] <BlackMage> hmm, ok. why exists 5.13.0-29-generic and linux-image-5.13.0-30-generic ?
[16:26] <leftyfb> BlackMage: the latest HWE kernel for 20.04 is 5.13.0.28.31~20.04.15. Feel free to update to it
[16:27] <BlackMage> what is a HWE kernel?
[16:28] <Maik> !HWE
[16:29] <Maik> BlackMage: ^
[16:30] <leftyfb> BlackMage: sudo apt install linux-image-generic-hwe-20.04
[16:32] <Maik> leftyfb: isn't that already installed by default on 20.04.3?
[16:32] <leftyfb> Maik: if it is, they'll update it
[16:32] <jhutchins> BlackMage: Hardware Enablement - adds hardware support to Long Term Support kernels.
[16:33] <Maik> since he's on 20.04.3 he should have the 5.13.0-28-generic kernel
[16:35] <ioria> -29 and -30 are in focal-proposed
[16:35] <BlackMage> ohh, okay
[16:55] <alkisg> 20.04.3 users may have either 5.4 or 5.13, depending on their initial installation, if it was <= 20.04.1 or >= 20.04.2
[16:56] <alkisg> I.e. the -hwe kernels are only preinstalled since the .2 minor LTS releases
[16:56] <Jeremy31> And people that installed the 20.04 beta can still be using 5.4
[18:20] <recyclehero> hi
[18:20] <recyclehero> does ubuntu download differs for uefi and bios?
[18:21] <recyclehero> 20.04 lte
[18:21] <recyclehero> lts
[18:23] <rfm> recyclehero, no, same iso for both.  May have to select boot mode in bios setup.
[18:39] <morganu> Please, beginners question. (man grep sends me in a tizzy) this is all I want to do- search for a file path.  VIZ:  search ls of home, recursively, for all filenames containing <any expression containing "word"> and print each on a line with its path.  --- How do I do that?
[18:40] <leftyfb> morganu: find -iname <some regex> -exec ls -l {} \;
[18:41] <hello-smile48> Use `find ~|grep word`
[18:41] <morganu> leftyfb, thanks. It is much fancier than I figured. hello-smile48  OK. -- Appreciations.
[18:42] <hello-smile48> morganu  the kind of person who uses `for` loops and `find /` together.
[18:42] <hello-smile48> I'm'
[18:42] <EriC^^> morganu: find /home -iname '*word*'
[18:48] <mattf> how can i check out how ubuntu is building some package?
[18:48] <mattf> well i want to see how it is building curl, is there something like an arch pkgbuild equivalent for ubuntu packages
[19:13] <rfm> mattf, look at https://askubuntu.com/questions/28372/how-do-i-get-and-modify-the-source-code-of-packages-installed-through-apt-get
[19:14] <leftyfb> mattf: apt source <package name>
[19:14] <mattf> i want to know what were the configure flags
[19:15] <mattf> but i think i figured it out from curl --version
[19:45] <recyclehero> thanks rfm
[19:54] <eli> Hi!
[19:54] <eli> What's up?
[19:55] <eli> What do you guys normally do in this channel?
[19:55] <Maik> eli: if you have a Ubuntu support question just ask, casual talk is in #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:55] <Maik> and they left...
[20:12] <n-iCe> Hello guys, is there a way to set cpu gpu to performance?
[20:19] <Guest8319> hello
[20:19] <Guest8319> i have Problems with sddm
[20:20] <Guest8319> it doesnt start a lxde session
[21:31] <Swift110-mobile> sup folks
[21:36] <Maik> Swift110-mobile: if your looking for a chit-chat join #ubuntu-offtopic for that
[21:39] <tomreyn> Guest2534789: i responded in #lubuntu, where you asked the same question.
[22:47] <jafa> seeing a problem with 20.04 where memory utilization for a process is miss-reported by tools like top when using hugetlb pages (locked resident)
[22:48] <jafa> free reports the correct utilization for the entire system, as does top reporting the summary for entire system
[22:48] <jafa> problem is the process information reported by top, htop, etc
[22:48] <jafa> reports correctly when not using hugetlb pages
[22:53] <jafa> system configured without hugetlb, allocate 97GB (locked) - top reports the app is using a bit over 97GB
[22:53] <jafa> system configured with 97x1GB hugetlb pages, allocate 97GB hugetlb (locked) - top reports small memory utilization
[22:55] <jafa> system-wide summary information correctly reports >100GB memory used
[23:35] <cluelessperson> sigh
[23:35] <cluelessperson> I hate fighting ubuntu
[23:39] <gordonjcp> cluelessperson: hello
[23:39] <gordonjcp> cluelessperson: what are you trying to do?
[23:51] <cluelessperson> gordonjcp, meh, just random errors here and there.
[23:52] <cluelessperson> My wifi card *never* gets gigabit, MTP isn't currently working,  printing barely works.
[23:52] <cluelessperson> I recognize it's not entirely ubuntu's fault
[23:52] <cluelessperson> but I do fault it for not being clear about what's going on in UIs and errors and such.
[23:54] <cluelessperson> I just installed a brother printer driver
[23:54] <cluelessperson> and no printing works at all.
[23:55] <gordonjcp> what kind of printer?
[23:55] <cluelessperson> brother laser printer
[23:58] <Nickfra05> hello