/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/03/09/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

mapreriddstreet, teward: you here?17:29
ddstreetyep o/17:29
teward*flops in*17:29
mapreriwhoa17:30
mapreriI love when people appear at meetings right on time ^^17:30
teward*yawns*17:30
maprerican't be so early there, can it?17:30
mapreriFYI, I want to discuss with you 2 proposed bpos in the AOBs17:31
ddstreetteward aren't you in my TZ? it's after noon here! xD17:31
ddstreetwe're all here, lets get started i suppose17:31
ddstreet#startmeeting Ubuntu Backports Team17:32
meetingologyMeeting started at 17:32:11 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology17:32
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick17:32
ddstreet#topic previous action items17:32
ddstreet#subtopic ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)17:32
ddstreetcarrying this over17:33
ddstreet#action ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)17:33
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over)17:33
ddstreet#action ddstreet draft a team charter for discussion17:33
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet draft a team charter for discussion17:33
ddstreetdone, let's discuss this later tho, after the previous actions17:33
maprerik17:33
ddstreet#action ddstreet raise issue of non-participating member policy17:33
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet raise issue of non-participating member policy17:33
ddstreeti think this is wrapped into the charter, so lets continue17:34
mapreriwait17:34
ddstreetah ok17:34
maprerias a "policy" do you think it would be useful to code what "non-participating" means?  like, skipping X meetings or not writing to the ML/bugs for X months, etc?17:34
maprerior should we just leave it to our feeling as I mentioned via mail?17:35
maprerialso, should we code what to do when we think somebody is "non-participating"?  like writing him a mail saying so before voting on it, or so?17:35
ddstreetyeah we should work it out17:35
mapreri.17:35
mapreriin that case, let's do that once the charter is completed, in the separate policy page you recommended writing, I suppose.17:36
ddstreeton one hand, i'd like to think that the participating members would be able to figure out who isn't participating and follow up with them and then appropriately remove them17:36
maprerithat's what I feel, however that proves very awkward in debian (as I'm in the MIA team, I know the feeling…)17:37
ddstreetbut...on the other hand, if that process is ambiguous, i've seen years go by with non-participating members17:37
mapreriyes, I'd like to see some clear line marked myself17:37
ddstreetyep i agree17:37
mapreriat least a line where we say "hey do something NOW or else.."17:37
ddstreetbut, it should be separate from the charter, right?17:37
mapreriyes17:37
ddstreetok yeah17:38
mapreriso it's not "i think this is wrapped into the charter,"17:38
mapreri:)17:38
ddstreetso lets' discuss the charter in more detail after the previous items, but re: this point, we should probably create a specific wiki page for 'policies'?17:39
ddstreetand keep all 'official' team policies in one place?17:39
maprerididn't you already recommend so in the mail?17:39
mapreriI wonder how many policies we want17:39
ddstreetin the charter, the wording is that team polciies are 'in or linked from' the public docs, and the 'public docs' is the main backports wiki page17:39
ddstreet*hopefully* we need very few official policies17:40
mapreribut yes, this kind of thing should be written, but it doesn't fit the charter, so a separate page it is, that i like it or not :317:40
ddstreetok let's put an action for me to update the charter with that, and create a draft 'policies' wiki page17:40
ddstreetand i think the draft 'membership' page should move into the 'policies' wiki page?17:41
ddstreetso all our 'policies' are together?17:41
maprerii'm not fussy about the naming17:41
ddstreetack17:41
mapreriit's a membership policy, so it can be either way17:41
ddstreet#action ddstreet update draft charter to point to team policies at single wiki page, create draft wiki page for team policies17:41
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet update draft charter to point to team policies at single wiki page, create draft wiki page for team policies17:41
mapreri17:42
ddstreet#subtopic ddstreet update agenda page with ML review topic item17:42
ddstreetdone17:42
ddstreet#subtopic ddstreet update agenda page with open bug review topic item17:42
ddstreetdone17:42
ddstreet#subtopic mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)17:43
mapreriwell, I guess this is superseded now17:43
ddstreeti think this is included in the charter discussion17:43
ddstreetyep17:43
maprerithx for basically taking it over17:43
ddstreetlol np, i was motivated by...things... ;-)17:43
ddstreet#subtopic mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)17:43
maprericarryover yep17:44
ddstreet#action mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)17:44
meetingologyACTION: mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress)17:44
mapreriwork took me over these few weeks :s17:44
ddstreet#subtopic mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)17:44
ubottuDebian bug 1001399 in lintian "lintian: adjust backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number for ubuntu" [Normal, Open]17:44
mapreriyeah, I chatted with lechner (lintian maint) but got nowhere, I have trouble following his mind sometime...  he is complaining about what for me is fictional troubles17:45
mapreriI'll try again when I'm less stressed17:45
ddstreetack, lol :)17:45
ddstreet#subtopic mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)17:45
ddstreetugh17:45
ddstreet#action mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)17:45
meetingologyACTION: mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) (carried over)17:45
ubottuDebian bug 1001399 in lintian "lintian: adjust backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number for ubuntu" [Normal, Open]17:45
ddstreet#subtopic (unassigned) review delegation email on ML17:45
ddstreetthis is in the new ML section too, but i think this is superceded by the charter?17:46
mapreriI think it should just stay there until we vote on our charter, then tell robie to take that charter and have the tb vote on it?17:46
ddstreetack17:46
mapreriit's not superseded, it's like the final step of it, i think?17:46
ddstreetyes right, the TB ratification should definitely be the final step, of whatever we have - charter or the delegation email content17:47
ddstreet#action (unassigned) review delegation email on ML17:47
meetingologyACTION: (unassigned) review delegation email on ML17:47
ddstreet#subtopic (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)17:47
ddstreeti'll carry this17:47
ddstreetwell, i won't carry it...it will be carried :)17:48
maprerilol17:48
ddstreet#action (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)17:48
meetingologyACTION: (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over)17:48
ddstreet#subtopic (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)17:48
ddstreetcarry this as well i think17:48
mapreriya17:48
ddstreet#action (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)17:48
meetingologyACTION: (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs (carried over)17:48
ddstreet#subtopic (unassigned) reminder to review 'no-bug-required' backport exception email thread on ML17:48
maprerioh17:48
ddstreetlet's drop this action since it's in the 'open ml thread' section too17:48
ddstreetbut we should still follow up on this on the ML, of course17:49
maprerithat dropped from my mind, it got buried in my todo17:49
maprerithanks for the reminder, i guess17:49
ddstreetlol17:49
ddstreetok that's all the previous action items17:49
mapreriit didn't fall out of my inbox, so it wasn't lost, but totally buried yes17:49
ddstreetshould we move on to the ML threads? anyone want to discuss any previous actions first?17:49
ddstreet(besides the charter)17:50
maprerii think besides the charter i don't have anything to discuss17:50
ddstreet#topic open mailing list threads17:50
ddstreet#subtopic clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions17:50
ddstreetgonna carry this one, just a reminder for us to look at it on the ML17:51
mapreriyeah, I don't have the topic in my mind atm, sorry17:51
ddstreet#action (ML) clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions17:51
mapreriwould just lose time right now17:51
meetingologyACTION: (ML) clarification on specific wording for no-bug-required backport exceptions17:51
ddstreetyep, same for me...been consumed with the charter stuff and didn't get to everything else17:51
ddstreet#subtopic Ratifying a formal delegation17:51
ddstreetsame here, as discussed earlier17:51
ddstreet#action (ML) Ratifying a formal delegation17:52
meetingologyACTION: (ML) Ratifying a formal delegation17:52
ddstreet#subtopic team charter17:52
ddstreetok here is it17:52
ddstreet#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2022-March/022719.html17:52
ddstreet:)17:52
ddstreetmapreri fyi i did just reply to your last reply minutes before the mtg17:52
mapreriyeah, I was reading it while chatting here17:52
ddstreet#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/Charter17:52
mapreriI think generally, both me and teward agreed with pretty much everything, roughly?17:53
tewardyep as long as we clarify membership requirements either in charter or out of charter17:53
ddstreetack, and that should be covered by the 'policies' wiki page action17:54
mapreriso you think very very strict requirements that really shouldn't change easily (like the team requirement) don't need to be within the charter?17:54
mapreribecause in mind I'd like those things there.  then more details like ("has provided at least X bpo uploads before applying" or similar) is the kind of thing to go outside of the charter, in the policies17:56
ddstreetpersonally, no...my feeling is, we're already going to vote on whoever gets into the team, right? so why do we need the TB to decide specific qualifications?17:56
mapreriIt looks like both of you think so, so I suppose that'll be fine :)17:57
tewardTB can always override us by governance17:57
tewardso :P17:57
mapreriright17:58
ddstreetmapreri if you feel strongly, i'm not strongly opposed to putting it in the charter17:58
ddstreetbut i feel like it's more than is needed - if our team members are trusted to vote on new members, we should also be capable of voting to adjust candidate qualifications, right?17:59
ddstreetand for sure as teward said, the TB can undo anything we break :)17:59
mapreriI don't feel strong about *that* specific point, nope17:59
ddstreetok so let's keep the membership qualifications in the team policies wiki then, yeah?18:00
mapreriI suppose so.  sometimes I just think it can be better to bind my/ourselves with rules that are harder to break, but…. looks like this is not the case here18:00
ddstreetbesides the action to set up the team policy wiki page and point the charter at it, anything else in the charter we should discuss or change?18:01
ddstreetif not i can update the wiki after the mtg and send out a ML email for review before we send it to the TB18:01
maprerisince we're moving requirements out of the doc, the sru-dev thing is also out of scope now (and i'll follow up via ml anyway)18:02
ddstreetack18:02
ddstreetok moving on18:02
mapreriPlease update it yes, I don't think there is anything that bothers me after it.  I'd like to read it a couple of more times before we vote, however18:02
maprerijust send a note after the next refresh ^^18:02
ddstreetyep for sure18:02
ddstreetlemme action that just to be sure18:02
ddstreet#action ddstreet send ML email after updating charter18:03
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet send ML email after updating charter18:03
ddstreet#topic open bugs18:03
ddstreet#subtopic update backportpackage and requestbackport scripts to behave according to new backport process18:03
ddstreeti think this is a carry-over18:03
mapreriisn't thi covered by an above action already?18:03
mapreride-dup the agenda? :P18:03
ddstreetyeah, we probably don't need to track it here18:04
ddstreeti suppose this section is better served by tracking actual backport bugs18:04
ddstreet:)18:04
mapreribut I suppose I can take here about my 2 bpo bugs18:04
ddstreetsure go for it18:04
maprerimy Q is about LP#1962743 and LP#1962614 (disclosure, they are from an italian dev that hangs out in the italian channel and as such bothered to me privately…)18:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1962743 in freeipmi (Ubuntu Focal) "[BPO] freeipmi/1.6.9-2 from Jammy to Focal" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196274318:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1962614 in memtest86+ (Ubuntu) "[BPO] memtest86+/5.31b+dfsg-4  from Jammy to Focal" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196261418:05
mapreriin particular about memtest, I'm less concerned about freeipmi.  anyhow, my point is: the "pushing reason" behind both of those request is to fix actual bugs in focal.18:06
ddstreetthis is similar to my ML thread about systemtap18:06
mapreriI'm aware that both packages carry new features that as such deserve to be backported, but the maintainer (that's a new maintainer in debian that took over) is basically telling me that he doesn't want to spend time figuring out patches or so for them to fix the bugs in focal.18:07
ddstreeti totally agree with your rejection of it - backports shouldn't be used as a 'easier' bug fix pocket18:07
mapreri(the freeipmi one is extra-annoying because it was clearly caused by canonical applying a patch (for a customer?) in bionic, then the patch got dropped, so focal regressed, and now jammy is fixed because the patch is upstream finally)18:08
mapreriI feel bad just rejecting them outright, however, because they do provide value.18:08
ddstreetlol that freeipmi definitely sounds like it should be sru'ed18:08
ddstreetyep i feel the same18:09
mapreriand I'm positive that those bugs won't be SRUd anytime soon, especially for memtest, where it got a big leap in the upstream version.18:09
ddstreetagreed18:10
ddstreeti don't know what the right thing to do is18:10
mapreriso basically I'm asking to provide your own opinion on what to do for those 2 bugs.  probably something you shouldn't decide right now, but after looking a bit in the next days?18:10
ddstreet+118:10
mapreriand I suspect try to come up with some kind of vague "guidance" for similar cases, maybe?18:10
ddstreetyep18:10
ddstreetand once we have that, we should likely update the docs to clarify for uploaders18:11
mapreriteward: ↑ if you could give us your opinion too on these 2 bugs in the coming days, that would be most appreciated18:11
mapreri(by us, I won't speak for the uploader :P)18:11
tewardsorry i keep getting pulled off for work18:11
tewardwhich two, ipmi and memtest?18:12
mapreriyep18:12
* mapreri wonder how did he trigger "surge protection" on wiki.u.c18:12
tewardi'll have to review them.  i can't guarantee today but yes I can review and give my opinion in the next few days18:12
ddstreeti'll add action in the bugs section so we at least can follow up on them next mtg18:12
tewardmapreri: not sure if you saw #canonical-sysadmin but they've been migrating today18:12
tewardso it might be a fluke18:12
mapreriddstreet: istr I left some "empty paragraph" in the main wiki page specifically for after we figure these kind of cases.18:13
cjwatsonYeah, there was a problem around surge protection earlier today related to the wiki migration18:13
mapreriteward: haven't read the backlog there, nope18:13
teward*points at cjwatson's message*18:13
mapreriteward: next few days is fine, nothing urgent18:13
maprericjwatson: ack, thanks18:13
ddstreet#action (BUGS) LP#196274318:13
meetingologyACTION: (BUGS) LP#196274318:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1962743 in freeipmi (Ubuntu Focal) "[BPO] freeipmi/1.6.9-2 from Jammy to Focal" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196274318:13
ddstreet#action (BUGS)  LP#196261418:13
meetingologyACTION: (BUGS)  LP#196261418:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1962614 in memtest86+ (Ubuntu) "[BPO] memtest86+/5.31b+dfsg-4  from Jammy to Focal" [Undecided, Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196261418:13
ddstreetok i think that's all the bugs, at least in the agenda list18:14
ddstreet#subtopic AOB18:14
ddstreetok AOB, anything else?18:15
mapreriI think the other bugs currently are fine, yes18:15
maprerimh, no more aob from me18:15
ddstreeti hope once we get the administrative stuff e.g. charter, etc done, these mtgs will be shorter18:15
ddstreetoh i suppose i should mention, our agenda currently lists our mtgs as 'as needed', but we probably should just admit they are fortnightly :)18:16
ddstreetok with both of you?18:16
mapreriI think as the charter says we should aim to ditch them and make them quarterly (unless "a member calls for one"?)18:16
maprerilike, really18:16
mapreriI don't want to do meetings /o\18:16
ddstreethey i am *all* for that!18:17
maprerialthough I appreciate chatting with fellow devs18:17
ddstreetso should we just decide now to set them for quarterly?18:17
maprerikeep the "as needed" as a sign for an idealistic dream?18:17
ddstreetlol18:17
ddstreetack that works for me :)18:17
maprerilet's decide on that at some future point :)18:17
ddstreetwe'll get to that 'as needed' one day! xD18:17
ddstreetyep18:17
ddstreetok leaving that as is18:18
ddstreetnothing else from me18:18
mapreriaye18:18
ddstreetok thanks mapreri teward !!!!!18:18
ddstreet#endmeeting18:18
meetingologyMeeting ended at 18:18:43 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-03-09-17.32.moin.txt18:18
maprerio/ thank yo uboth18:18
tewardo/18:18
ddstreeto/18:18
teward*goes back to beating his head against an Exchange server*18:18

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