=== cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
=== didrocks999 is now known as didrocks
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teward*tosses a small stick at sil2100 for reasons*19:03
tewardwhere's my caffeine :|19:03
sil2100I don't know!19:03
tewardTHEN GO GETME SOME :P19:04
sil2100Even if we don't have a quorum today, I'd propose to start the meeting anyway - but let's see19:05
sil2100fnordahl: hey! I see that your'e on the agenda, but with no date - did you announce your application via e-mail? Since I cannot find it19:06
tewardi don't think they did19:06
fnordahlsil2100: I did, I'll find a reference.19:06
sil2100Thank you19:06
fnordahlsil2100: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2022-March/001917.html19:07
tewardah yes the SPF Failures chaos days19:07
tewardsil2100: ^^19:07
fnordahlIf we're not ready today I'm fine with postponing to a different day, let me know your preference19:07
sil2100I searched my inbox but didn't find anything, thanks! ;)19:07
sil2100I think since we have 3 members here, we might want to start the meeting, maybe ask some questions, and then finish it of via e-mail (or on the next meeting, whichever is preferred)19:08
fnordahlack, sounds good I'll stick around19:08
sil2100Ok, let's do this19:10
sil2100Let me just grab something to drink and start19:10
tewardi have a hard-deadline in 20min for me so19:10
tewardbetter start soon :p19:10
tewarddoc appts19:11
sil2100#startmeeting DMB meeting19:11
meetingologyMeeting started at 19:11:14 UTC.  The chair is sil2100.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology19:11
meetingologyAvailable commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick19:11
sil2100So maybe let's start with our applicant!19:11
sil2100#topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications19:12
sil2100#subtopic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages19:12
sil2100#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fnordahl/uppuapp19:12
sil2100fnordahl: hello!19:12
fnordahlHello there, thank you for receiving my application!19:12
sil2100fnordahl: please introduce yourself briefly!19:12
fnordahlMy name is Frode, I'm located in Oslo/Norway and have worked with/on Ubuntu for several years. I have always have had a focus on network pieces and I stil find those very interesting.19:13
sil2100So you're applying for PPU for 'openvswitch' and 'ovn', right?19:15
fnordahlThat is correct. The interest in Open vSwitch and OVN started out from its use in cloud, but recently it has become a more and more important piece in the infrastructure due to developments of network bandiwdth and the need for offloading flows into hardware etc.19:16
sil2100One thing to think about for our DMB members is whether we should create a packageset or maybe just a personal PPU - but we'll think about it later, I don't think this is relevant to the application itself19:16
sil2100Ok, questions? teward? ddstreet?19:16
sil2100I need a moment to take a look at the application19:17
tewardfnordahl: under what cases should you *NOT* upload a package during a cycle?19:17
ddstreetfnordahl i assume you did not see my ping in ubuntu-release after you sent your email, but why aren't you applying to be part of the openstack packageset/team instead?19:17
tewardalso ^^ that19:17
sil2100ddstreet: we'd have to add ovn and openvswith to that packageset though!19:17
ddstreetwell...right, isn't that more appropriate?19:17
fnordahlddstreet: the team is split into multiple focused sub teams, so I work solemnly on Open vSwitch and OVN.19:17
fnordahlddstreet: sometimes we aid in stuff above such as OpenStack too of course, but I would not be working on the other OpenStack packages.19:18
sil2100ddstreet: ...I guess, I always grouped them together in my mind. But then again I think they're more like 'related' but not 'part of'. Maybe it's a good discussion to have19:19
fnordahlteward: It is important for me to stay up to date on the release schedule. As Ubuntu is a time based release, it is very important that everyone work with this in mind so that we hit the release on time.19:19
tewardthat... isn't an answer to the question I asked :P19:19
tewardat what points in the development cycle should you be cautious about uploading package updates during the cycle?19:20
teward... and now i'm overly redundant >.<19:20
teward(i have a 10min hardstop btw for awareness)19:20
fnordahlteward: that is what I'm getting at :) Any major changes would need to be uploaded prior to the FeatureFreeze19:20
tewardsorry i'm running in "VeryImpatientMode" today >.>19:20
tewardFT job has me running at a billion RPMs.19:21
ddstreetopenvswitch/ovn are a subset of openstack, they make no sense at all without the rest of openstack, so it wouldn't make sense to create a separate packageset just for them (separate from openstack) - so i think the only rational choices here are either fnordahl goes into openstack pkgset/team, or gets ppu for those specific pkgs19:21
fnordahlddstreet: openvswitch/ovn is used outside of OpenStack, both in LXD and in Kubernetes.19:21
ddstreetand it seems fnordahl would prefer just ppu instead of joining openstack pkgset team19:21
ddstreetlxd uses ovn?19:21
fnordahlddstreet: yes19:22
ddstreetyou mean it *can* use ovn, or it always uses ovn?19:22
fnordahlddstreet: it can use it19:22
fnordahlteward: did that answer your question btw?19:22
ddstreetyeah...would anyone ever set up lxd with ovn without openstack?19:22
fnordahlddstreet: yes19:22
ddstreetah ok well i suppose it is separate then19:22
* ddstreet starts to set up ovn with lxd ;-)19:25
ddstreetnothing else from me19:25
tewardi keep getting pulled left right up and down at FT job even though i work from home so  *summons Cthulu for reasons*19:25
sil2100fnordahl: can you tell me what's happening to a package uploaded to Ubuntu from the moment of upload until the moment it moves to the release pocket?19:25
teward(I have no more questions 'cause sil asked the other one i was going to ask)19:26
fnordahlsil2100: In Ubuntu there is multiple pockets where packets live. Before going to the -main or -updates pocket the package will sitt in the -proposed pocket for a period (normally a week I believe) before it gets further promotion. If the upload is for a stable release (SRU) it would also need extra verification to confirm the upload addresses the issue at hand.19:27
fnordahlThere are also other queues, autopackage tests that packages need to go through before hitting any pocket.19:28
sil2100fnordahl: that's almost good. You mentioned a wait period in -proposed - can you elaborate a bit more about that?19:29
ddstreeti have 1 more q actually once you are done sil210019:31
fnordahlsil2100: So in the development release it appears I was mistaken about there being a fixed time before promotion.19:33
fnordahlThere is a set of criterias that need to be met, such as builds for all architectures, dependencies satisfiable, no bugs on -proposed, passes tests etc before it can be promoted.19:34
fnordahlThe purpose is also to get exposure to a smaller audience which have opted into -proposed so that one can get a reading before the package goes into -main in case there are unforseen problems19:35
sil2100fnordahl: is the promotion from -proposed a manual process?19:35
sil2100fnordahl: and a final follow up question - you're mentioning a -main pocket. Can you tell me more about it? Is the name correct?19:37
fnordahlI would think the package test infrastructure is at least partially automated, but I do not currently know if the promotion in the -development release is automatic if the criterias are met or if there is a manual vetting process at the end.19:40
fnordahlSo pockets, when you frame the question it in that way it makes me wonder if I've used the wrong name19:42
fnordahlmain is a set of packages that receive support, other classes of packages are described as being in "universe", "multiverse" etc19:43
fnordahlBut regardless of support state, there are -updates -proposed and other pockets for them.19:43
fnordahlSo I guess main is not a correct name for a pocket in that sense19:44
ddstreetsil2100 any follow up? i have just 1 more q19:44
sil2100fnordahl: correct, we call this the 'release' pocket basically. As you have written, main and universe are components19:44
sil2100No more questions from me, ddstreet go ahead!19:45
ddstreetfnordahl are you familiar with, or do you currently participate in, the sru exception process for openstack packages (which includes openvswitch/ovn)?19:45
ddstreetspecifically the point release exception19:45
fnordahlddstreet: yes, I am aware of there being what is described as an MRE, which allows SRU of upstream appointed point releases19:46
ddstreeti assume you would participate in that for the openvswitch/ovn packages, i.e. you would be uploading new point release versions sometimes?19:47
fnordahlYes, that is the intention. We are currently behind on one of the OVN  ones now which we want to correct19:47
ddstreetcan you summarize the differences between the normal sru process and the openstack sru exception process?19:48
ddstreetat least the most important one(s)19:48
fnordahlIf we for example have patches for three LP bugs in OVN and want to SRU those under the normal process, we need to perform full verification which includes a control test with a unpactched pacakge and demonstrate that a patched package resolves the problem for each separate bug (i.e. on 3 LP bugs).19:50
fnordahlWith the sru exception process we instead perform a distro regression test on a whole set of changes, blessed by the upstream community, and when we find no problems we can SRU the set of changes from the point releae in one go.19:51
fnordahlddstreet: at least that is the most important difference from performing the verification perspective. did that answer your question?19:52
ddstreetyep, thanks! nothing else from me19:52
sil2100Ok, thank you for answering our questions19:54
fnordahlThank you for asking them and taking the time to consider my application!19:54
sil2100hm, I think we'll move this to the ML, but it should hopefully be fast as there's just one member that didn't yet have the occassion to ask questions19:54
sil2100I think we'll vote then, via e-mail, since questions provide valuable information for all of us19:55
sil2100So that would be most fair19:55
fnordahlSounds good to me, should I subscribe to the devel-permissions list or will I be on Cc?19:55
sil2100Ok... bad news is that I also actually have to go AFK in a moment, so I'd say let's end the meeting - I finished like one action item, but everything else is still in progress19:56
sil2100fnordahl: I'll keep you in the loop o/19:56
sil2100But subscribing to devel-permissions is a good idea anyway ;)19:56
meetingologyMeeting ended at 19:57:01 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-03-21-19.11.moin.txt19:57
fnordahlack, will do :)19:57
fnordahl\o Thanks all19:57
sil2100Apologies for having to end this early o/19:57
sil2100I'll follow up with an e-mail later19:57

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