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| sil2100 | o/ | 19:01 |
|---|---|---|
| fnordahl | o/ | 19:01 |
| ddstreet | o/ | 19:03 |
| teward | *tosses a small stick at sil2100 for reasons* | 19:03 |
| teward | where's my caffeine :| | 19:03 |
| sil2100 | I don't know! | 19:03 |
| teward | THEN GO GETME SOME :P | 19:04 |
| teward | :P | 19:04 |
| sil2100 | Even if we don't have a quorum today, I'd propose to start the meeting anyway - but let's see | 19:05 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: hey! I see that your'e on the agenda, but with no date - did you announce your application via e-mail? Since I cannot find it | 19:06 |
| teward | i don't think they did | 19:06 |
| fnordahl | sil2100: I did, I'll find a reference. | 19:06 |
| sil2100 | Thank you | 19:06 |
| fnordahl | sil2100: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2022-March/001917.html | 19:07 |
| teward | ah yes the SPF Failures chaos days | 19:07 |
| teward | sil2100: ^^ | 19:07 |
| fnordahl | If we're not ready today I'm fine with postponing to a different day, let me know your preference | 19:07 |
| sil2100 | I searched my inbox but didn't find anything, thanks! ;) | 19:07 |
| sil2100 | I think since we have 3 members here, we might want to start the meeting, maybe ask some questions, and then finish it of via e-mail (or on the next meeting, whichever is preferred) | 19:08 |
| fnordahl | ack, sounds good I'll stick around | 19:08 |
| sil2100 | Ok, let's do this | 19:10 |
| sil2100 | Let me just grab something to drink and start | 19:10 |
| teward | i have a hard-deadline in 20min for me so | 19:10 |
| teward | better start soon :p | 19:10 |
| teward | doc appts | 19:11 |
| sil2100 | #startmeeting DMB meeting | 19:11 |
| meetingology | Meeting started at 19:11:14 UTC. The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 19:11 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick | 19:11 |
| sil2100 | So maybe let's start with our applicant! | 19:11 |
| sil2100 | #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | #subtopic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fnordahl/uppuapp | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: hello! | 19:12 |
| fnordahl | Hello there, thank you for receiving my application! | 19:12 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: please introduce yourself briefly! | 19:12 |
| fnordahl | My name is Frode, I'm located in Oslo/Norway and have worked with/on Ubuntu for several years. I have always have had a focus on network pieces and I stil find those very interesting. | 19:13 |
| sil2100 | So you're applying for PPU for 'openvswitch' and 'ovn', right? | 19:15 |
| fnordahl | That is correct. The interest in Open vSwitch and OVN started out from its use in cloud, but recently it has become a more and more important piece in the infrastructure due to developments of network bandiwdth and the need for offloading flows into hardware etc. | 19:16 |
| sil2100 | One thing to think about for our DMB members is whether we should create a packageset or maybe just a personal PPU - but we'll think about it later, I don't think this is relevant to the application itself | 19:16 |
| sil2100 | Ok, questions? teward? ddstreet? | 19:16 |
| sil2100 | I need a moment to take a look at the application | 19:17 |
| teward | fnordahl: under what cases should you *NOT* upload a package during a cycle? | 19:17 |
| ddstreet | fnordahl i assume you did not see my ping in ubuntu-release after you sent your email, but why aren't you applying to be part of the openstack packageset/team instead? | 19:17 |
| teward | also ^^ that | 19:17 |
| sil2100 | ddstreet: we'd have to add ovn and openvswith to that packageset though! | 19:17 |
| ddstreet | well...right, isn't that more appropriate? | 19:17 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: the team is split into multiple focused sub teams, so I work solemnly on Open vSwitch and OVN. | 19:17 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: sometimes we aid in stuff above such as OpenStack too of course, but I would not be working on the other OpenStack packages. | 19:18 |
| sil2100 | ddstreet: ...I guess, I always grouped them together in my mind. But then again I think they're more like 'related' but not 'part of'. Maybe it's a good discussion to have | 19:19 |
| fnordahl | teward: It is important for me to stay up to date on the release schedule. As Ubuntu is a time based release, it is very important that everyone work with this in mind so that we hit the release on time. | 19:19 |
| teward | that... isn't an answer to the question I asked :P | 19:19 |
| teward | at what points in the development cycle should you be cautious about uploading package updates during the cycle? | 19:20 |
| teward | ... and now i'm overly redundant >.< | 19:20 |
| teward | (i have a 10min hardstop btw for awareness) | 19:20 |
| fnordahl | teward: that is what I'm getting at :) Any major changes would need to be uploaded prior to the FeatureFreeze | 19:20 |
| teward | sorry i'm running in "VeryImpatientMode" today >.> | 19:20 |
| teward | FT job has me running at a billion RPMs. | 19:21 |
| ddstreet | openvswitch/ovn are a subset of openstack, they make no sense at all without the rest of openstack, so it wouldn't make sense to create a separate packageset just for them (separate from openstack) - so i think the only rational choices here are either fnordahl goes into openstack pkgset/team, or gets ppu for those specific pkgs | 19:21 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: openvswitch/ovn is used outside of OpenStack, both in LXD and in Kubernetes. | 19:21 |
| ddstreet | and it seems fnordahl would prefer just ppu instead of joining openstack pkgset team | 19:21 |
| ddstreet | lxd uses ovn? | 19:21 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: yes | 19:22 |
| ddstreet | you mean it *can* use ovn, or it always uses ovn? | 19:22 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: it can use it | 19:22 |
| fnordahl | teward: did that answer your question btw? | 19:22 |
| ddstreet | yeah...would anyone ever set up lxd with ovn without openstack? | 19:22 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: yes | 19:22 |
| ddstreet | ah ok well i suppose it is separate then | 19:22 |
| * ddstreet starts to set up ovn with lxd ;-) | 19:25 | |
| fnordahl | :) | 19:25 |
| ddstreet | nothing else from me | 19:25 |
| teward | i keep getting pulled left right up and down at FT job even though i work from home so *summons Cthulu for reasons* | 19:25 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: can you tell me what's happening to a package uploaded to Ubuntu from the moment of upload until the moment it moves to the release pocket? | 19:25 |
| teward | (I have no more questions 'cause sil asked the other one i was going to ask) | 19:26 |
| fnordahl | sil2100: In Ubuntu there is multiple pockets where packets live. Before going to the -main or -updates pocket the package will sitt in the -proposed pocket for a period (normally a week I believe) before it gets further promotion. If the upload is for a stable release (SRU) it would also need extra verification to confirm the upload addresses the issue at hand. | 19:27 |
| fnordahl | There are also other queues, autopackage tests that packages need to go through before hitting any pocket. | 19:28 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: that's almost good. You mentioned a wait period in -proposed - can you elaborate a bit more about that? | 19:29 |
| ddstreet | i have 1 more q actually once you are done sil2100 | 19:31 |
| fnordahl | sil2100: So in the development release it appears I was mistaken about there being a fixed time before promotion. | 19:33 |
| fnordahl | There is a set of criterias that need to be met, such as builds for all architectures, dependencies satisfiable, no bugs on -proposed, passes tests etc before it can be promoted. | 19:34 |
| fnordahl | The purpose is also to get exposure to a smaller audience which have opted into -proposed so that one can get a reading before the package goes into -main in case there are unforseen problems | 19:35 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: is the promotion from -proposed a manual process? | 19:35 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: and a final follow up question - you're mentioning a -main pocket. Can you tell me more about it? Is the name correct? | 19:37 |
| fnordahl | I would think the package test infrastructure is at least partially automated, but I do not currently know if the promotion in the -development release is automatic if the criterias are met or if there is a manual vetting process at the end. | 19:40 |
| fnordahl | So pockets, when you frame the question it in that way it makes me wonder if I've used the wrong name | 19:42 |
| fnordahl | main is a set of packages that receive support, other classes of packages are described as being in "universe", "multiverse" etc | 19:43 |
| fnordahl | But regardless of support state, there are -updates -proposed and other pockets for them. | 19:43 |
| fnordahl | So I guess main is not a correct name for a pocket in that sense | 19:44 |
| ddstreet | sil2100 any follow up? i have just 1 more q | 19:44 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: correct, we call this the 'release' pocket basically. As you have written, main and universe are components | 19:44 |
| sil2100 | No more questions from me, ddstreet go ahead! | 19:45 |
| ddstreet | fnordahl are you familiar with, or do you currently participate in, the sru exception process for openstack packages (which includes openvswitch/ovn)? | 19:45 |
| ddstreet | specifically the point release exception | 19:45 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: yes, I am aware of there being what is described as an MRE, which allows SRU of upstream appointed point releases | 19:46 |
| ddstreet | i assume you would participate in that for the openvswitch/ovn packages, i.e. you would be uploading new point release versions sometimes? | 19:47 |
| fnordahl | Yes, that is the intention. We are currently behind on one of the OVN ones now which we want to correct | 19:47 |
| ddstreet | can you summarize the differences between the normal sru process and the openstack sru exception process? | 19:48 |
| ddstreet | at least the most important one(s) | 19:48 |
| fnordahl | If we for example have patches for three LP bugs in OVN and want to SRU those under the normal process, we need to perform full verification which includes a control test with a unpactched pacakge and demonstrate that a patched package resolves the problem for each separate bug (i.e. on 3 LP bugs). | 19:50 |
| fnordahl | With the sru exception process we instead perform a distro regression test on a whole set of changes, blessed by the upstream community, and when we find no problems we can SRU the set of changes from the point releae in one go. | 19:51 |
| fnordahl | ddstreet: at least that is the most important difference from performing the verification perspective. did that answer your question? | 19:52 |
| ddstreet | yep, thanks! nothing else from me | 19:52 |
| sil2100 | Ok, thank you for answering our questions | 19:54 |
| fnordahl | Thank you for asking them and taking the time to consider my application! | 19:54 |
| sil2100 | hm, I think we'll move this to the ML, but it should hopefully be fast as there's just one member that didn't yet have the occassion to ask questions | 19:54 |
| sil2100 | I think we'll vote then, via e-mail, since questions provide valuable information for all of us | 19:55 |
| sil2100 | So that would be most fair | 19:55 |
| fnordahl | Sounds good to me, should I subscribe to the devel-permissions list or will I be on Cc? | 19:55 |
| sil2100 | Ok... bad news is that I also actually have to go AFK in a moment, so I'd say let's end the meeting - I finished like one action item, but everything else is still in progress | 19:56 |
| sil2100 | fnordahl: I'll keep you in the loop o/ | 19:56 |
| sil2100 | But subscribing to devel-permissions is a good idea anyway ;) | 19:56 |
| sil2100 | #endmeeting | 19:57 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended at 19:57:01 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-03-21-19.11.moin.txt | 19:57 |
| fnordahl | ack, will do :) | 19:57 |
| fnordahl | \o Thanks all | 19:57 |
| sil2100 | Apologies for having to end this early o/ | 19:57 |
| sil2100 | I'll follow up with an e-mail later | 19:57 |
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