[19:01] <sil2100> o/
[19:01] <fnordahl> o/
[19:03] <ddstreet> o/
[19:03] <teward> *tosses a small stick at sil2100 for reasons*
[19:03] <teward> where's my caffeine :|
[19:03] <sil2100> I don't know!
[19:04] <teward> THEN GO GETME SOME :P
[19:04] <teward> :P
[19:05] <sil2100> Even if we don't have a quorum today, I'd propose to start the meeting anyway - but let's see
[19:06] <sil2100> fnordahl: hey! I see that your'e on the agenda, but with no date - did you announce your application via e-mail? Since I cannot find it
[19:06] <teward> i don't think they did
[19:06] <fnordahl> sil2100: I did, I'll find a reference.
[19:06] <sil2100> Thank you
[19:07] <fnordahl> sil2100: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2022-March/001917.html
[19:07] <teward> ah yes the SPF Failures chaos days
[19:07] <teward> sil2100: ^^
[19:07] <fnordahl> If we're not ready today I'm fine with postponing to a different day, let me know your preference
[19:07] <sil2100> I searched my inbox but didn't find anything, thanks! ;)
[19:08] <sil2100> I think since we have 3 members here, we might want to start the meeting, maybe ask some questions, and then finish it of via e-mail (or on the next meeting, whichever is preferred)
[19:08] <fnordahl> ack, sounds good I'll stick around
[19:10] <sil2100> Ok, let's do this
[19:10] <sil2100> Let me just grab something to drink and start
[19:10] <teward> i have a hard-deadline in 20min for me so
[19:10] <teward> better start soon :p
[19:11] <teward> doc appts
[19:11] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[19:11] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:11:14 UTC.  The chair is sil2100.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:11] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:11] <sil2100> So maybe let's start with our applicant!
[19:12] <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[19:12] <sil2100> #subtopic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages
[19:12] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fnordahl/uppuapp
[19:12] <sil2100> fnordahl: hello!
[19:12] <fnordahl> Hello there, thank you for receiving my application!
[19:12] <sil2100> fnordahl: please introduce yourself briefly!
[19:13] <fnordahl> My name is Frode, I'm located in Oslo/Norway and have worked with/on Ubuntu for several years. I have always have had a focus on network pieces and I stil find those very interesting.
[19:15] <sil2100> So you're applying for PPU for 'openvswitch' and 'ovn', right?
[19:16] <fnordahl> That is correct. The interest in Open vSwitch and OVN started out from its use in cloud, but recently it has become a more and more important piece in the infrastructure due to developments of network bandiwdth and the need for offloading flows into hardware etc.
[19:16] <sil2100> One thing to think about for our DMB members is whether we should create a packageset or maybe just a personal PPU - but we'll think about it later, I don't think this is relevant to the application itself
[19:16] <sil2100> Ok, questions? teward? ddstreet?
[19:17] <sil2100> I need a moment to take a look at the application
[19:17] <teward> fnordahl: under what cases should you *NOT* upload a package during a cycle?
[19:17] <ddstreet> fnordahl i assume you did not see my ping in ubuntu-release after you sent your email, but why aren't you applying to be part of the openstack packageset/team instead?
[19:17] <teward> also ^^ that
[19:17] <sil2100> ddstreet: we'd have to add ovn and openvswith to that packageset though!
[19:17] <ddstreet> well...right, isn't that more appropriate?
[19:17] <fnordahl> ddstreet: the team is split into multiple focused sub teams, so I work solemnly on Open vSwitch and OVN.
[19:18] <fnordahl> ddstreet: sometimes we aid in stuff above such as OpenStack too of course, but I would not be working on the other OpenStack packages.
[19:19] <sil2100> ddstreet: ...I guess, I always grouped them together in my mind. But then again I think they're more like 'related' but not 'part of'. Maybe it's a good discussion to have
[19:19] <fnordahl> teward: It is important for me to stay up to date on the release schedule. As Ubuntu is a time based release, it is very important that everyone work with this in mind so that we hit the release on time.
[19:19] <teward> that... isn't an answer to the question I asked :P
[19:20] <teward> at what points in the development cycle should you be cautious about uploading package updates during the cycle?
[19:20] <teward> ... and now i'm overly redundant >.<
[19:20] <teward> (i have a 10min hardstop btw for awareness)
[19:20] <fnordahl> teward: that is what I'm getting at :) Any major changes would need to be uploaded prior to the FeatureFreeze
[19:20] <teward> sorry i'm running in "VeryImpatientMode" today >.>
[19:21] <teward> FT job has me running at a billion RPMs.
[19:21] <ddstreet> openvswitch/ovn are a subset of openstack, they make no sense at all without the rest of openstack, so it wouldn't make sense to create a separate packageset just for them (separate from openstack) - so i think the only rational choices here are either fnordahl goes into openstack pkgset/team, or gets ppu for those specific pkgs
[19:21] <fnordahl> ddstreet: openvswitch/ovn is used outside of OpenStack, both in LXD and in Kubernetes.
[19:21] <ddstreet> and it seems fnordahl would prefer just ppu instead of joining openstack pkgset team
[19:21] <ddstreet> lxd uses ovn?
[19:22] <fnordahl> ddstreet: yes
[19:22] <ddstreet> you mean it *can* use ovn, or it always uses ovn?
[19:22] <fnordahl> ddstreet: it can use it
[19:22] <fnordahl> teward: did that answer your question btw?
[19:22] <ddstreet> yeah...would anyone ever set up lxd with ovn without openstack?
[19:22] <fnordahl> ddstreet: yes
[19:22] <ddstreet> ah ok well i suppose it is separate then
[19:25]  * ddstreet starts to set up ovn with lxd ;-)
[19:25] <fnordahl> :)
[19:25] <ddstreet> nothing else from me
[19:25] <teward> i keep getting pulled left right up and down at FT job even though i work from home so  *summons Cthulu for reasons*
[19:25] <sil2100> fnordahl: can you tell me what's happening to a package uploaded to Ubuntu from the moment of upload until the moment it moves to the release pocket?
[19:26] <teward> (I have no more questions 'cause sil asked the other one i was going to ask)
[19:27] <fnordahl> sil2100: In Ubuntu there is multiple pockets where packets live. Before going to the -main or -updates pocket the package will sitt in the -proposed pocket for a period (normally a week I believe) before it gets further promotion. If the upload is for a stable release (SRU) it would also need extra verification to confirm the upload addresses the issue at hand.
[19:28] <fnordahl> There are also other queues, autopackage tests that packages need to go through before hitting any pocket.
[19:29] <sil2100> fnordahl: that's almost good. You mentioned a wait period in -proposed - can you elaborate a bit more about that?
[19:31] <ddstreet> i have 1 more q actually once you are done sil2100
[19:33] <fnordahl> sil2100: So in the development release it appears I was mistaken about there being a fixed time before promotion.
[19:34] <fnordahl> There is a set of criterias that need to be met, such as builds for all architectures, dependencies satisfiable, no bugs on -proposed, passes tests etc before it can be promoted.
[19:35] <fnordahl> The purpose is also to get exposure to a smaller audience which have opted into -proposed so that one can get a reading before the package goes into -main in case there are unforseen problems
[19:35] <sil2100> fnordahl: is the promotion from -proposed a manual process?
[19:37] <sil2100> fnordahl: and a final follow up question - you're mentioning a -main pocket. Can you tell me more about it? Is the name correct?
[19:40] <fnordahl> I would think the package test infrastructure is at least partially automated, but I do not currently know if the promotion in the -development release is automatic if the criterias are met or if there is a manual vetting process at the end.
[19:42] <fnordahl> So pockets, when you frame the question it in that way it makes me wonder if I've used the wrong name
[19:43] <fnordahl> main is a set of packages that receive support, other classes of packages are described as being in "universe", "multiverse" etc
[19:43] <fnordahl> But regardless of support state, there are -updates -proposed and other pockets for them.
[19:44] <fnordahl> So I guess main is not a correct name for a pocket in that sense
[19:44] <ddstreet> sil2100 any follow up? i have just 1 more q
[19:44] <sil2100> fnordahl: correct, we call this the 'release' pocket basically. As you have written, main and universe are components
[19:45] <sil2100> No more questions from me, ddstreet go ahead!
[19:45] <ddstreet> fnordahl are you familiar with, or do you currently participate in, the sru exception process for openstack packages (which includes openvswitch/ovn)?
[19:45] <ddstreet> specifically the point release exception
[19:46] <fnordahl> ddstreet: yes, I am aware of there being what is described as an MRE, which allows SRU of upstream appointed point releases
[19:47] <ddstreet> i assume you would participate in that for the openvswitch/ovn packages, i.e. you would be uploading new point release versions sometimes?
[19:47] <fnordahl> Yes, that is the intention. We are currently behind on one of the OVN  ones now which we want to correct
[19:48] <ddstreet> can you summarize the differences between the normal sru process and the openstack sru exception process?
[19:48] <ddstreet> at least the most important one(s)
[19:50] <fnordahl> If we for example have patches for three LP bugs in OVN and want to SRU those under the normal process, we need to perform full verification which includes a control test with a unpactched pacakge and demonstrate that a patched package resolves the problem for each separate bug (i.e. on 3 LP bugs).
[19:51] <fnordahl> With the sru exception process we instead perform a distro regression test on a whole set of changes, blessed by the upstream community, and when we find no problems we can SRU the set of changes from the point releae in one go.
[19:52] <fnordahl> ddstreet: at least that is the most important difference from performing the verification perspective. did that answer your question?
[19:52] <ddstreet> yep, thanks! nothing else from me
[19:54] <sil2100> Ok, thank you for answering our questions
[19:54] <fnordahl> Thank you for asking them and taking the time to consider my application!
[19:54] <sil2100> hm, I think we'll move this to the ML, but it should hopefully be fast as there's just one member that didn't yet have the occassion to ask questions
[19:55] <sil2100> I think we'll vote then, via e-mail, since questions provide valuable information for all of us
[19:55] <sil2100> So that would be most fair
[19:55] <fnordahl> Sounds good to me, should I subscribe to the devel-permissions list or will I be on Cc?
[19:56] <sil2100> Ok... bad news is that I also actually have to go AFK in a moment, so I'd say let's end the meeting - I finished like one action item, but everything else is still in progress
[19:56] <sil2100> fnordahl: I'll keep you in the loop o/
[19:56] <sil2100> But subscribing to devel-permissions is a good idea anyway ;)
[19:57] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[19:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 19:57:01 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-03-21-19.11.moin.txt
[19:57] <fnordahl> ack, will do :)
[19:57] <fnordahl> \o Thanks all
[19:57] <sil2100> Apologies for having to end this early o/
[19:57] <sil2100> I'll follow up with an e-mail later