=== cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer === didrocks999 is now known as didrocks === mIk3_09 is now known as mIk3_08 [19:01] o/ [19:01] o/ [19:03] o/ [19:03] *tosses a small stick at sil2100 for reasons* [19:03] where's my caffeine :| [19:03] I don't know! [19:04] THEN GO GETME SOME :P [19:04] :P [19:05] Even if we don't have a quorum today, I'd propose to start the meeting anyway - but let's see [19:06] fnordahl: hey! I see that your'e on the agenda, but with no date - did you announce your application via e-mail? Since I cannot find it [19:06] i don't think they did [19:06] sil2100: I did, I'll find a reference. [19:06] Thank you [19:07] sil2100: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2022-March/001917.html [19:07] ah yes the SPF Failures chaos days [19:07] sil2100: ^^ [19:07] If we're not ready today I'm fine with postponing to a different day, let me know your preference [19:07] I searched my inbox but didn't find anything, thanks! ;) [19:08] I think since we have 3 members here, we might want to start the meeting, maybe ask some questions, and then finish it of via e-mail (or on the next meeting, whichever is preferred) [19:08] ack, sounds good I'll stick around [19:10] Ok, let's do this [19:10] Let me just grab something to drink and start [19:10] i have a hard-deadline in 20min for me so [19:10] better start soon :p [19:11] doc appts [19:11] #startmeeting DMB meeting [19:11] Meeting started at 19:11:14 UTC. The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [19:11] Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick [19:11] So maybe let's start with our applicant! [19:12] #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications [19:12] #subtopic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages [19:12] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fnordahl/uppuapp [19:12] fnordahl: hello! [19:12] Hello there, thank you for receiving my application! [19:12] fnordahl: please introduce yourself briefly! [19:13] My name is Frode, I'm located in Oslo/Norway and have worked with/on Ubuntu for several years. I have always have had a focus on network pieces and I stil find those very interesting. [19:15] So you're applying for PPU for 'openvswitch' and 'ovn', right? [19:16] That is correct. The interest in Open vSwitch and OVN started out from its use in cloud, but recently it has become a more and more important piece in the infrastructure due to developments of network bandiwdth and the need for offloading flows into hardware etc. [19:16] One thing to think about for our DMB members is whether we should create a packageset or maybe just a personal PPU - but we'll think about it later, I don't think this is relevant to the application itself [19:16] Ok, questions? teward? ddstreet? [19:17] I need a moment to take a look at the application [19:17] fnordahl: under what cases should you *NOT* upload a package during a cycle? [19:17] fnordahl i assume you did not see my ping in ubuntu-release after you sent your email, but why aren't you applying to be part of the openstack packageset/team instead? [19:17] also ^^ that [19:17] ddstreet: we'd have to add ovn and openvswith to that packageset though! [19:17] well...right, isn't that more appropriate? [19:17] ddstreet: the team is split into multiple focused sub teams, so I work solemnly on Open vSwitch and OVN. [19:18] ddstreet: sometimes we aid in stuff above such as OpenStack too of course, but I would not be working on the other OpenStack packages. [19:19] ddstreet: ...I guess, I always grouped them together in my mind. But then again I think they're more like 'related' but not 'part of'. Maybe it's a good discussion to have [19:19] teward: It is important for me to stay up to date on the release schedule. As Ubuntu is a time based release, it is very important that everyone work with this in mind so that we hit the release on time. [19:19] that... isn't an answer to the question I asked :P [19:20] at what points in the development cycle should you be cautious about uploading package updates during the cycle? [19:20] ... and now i'm overly redundant >.< [19:20] (i have a 10min hardstop btw for awareness) [19:20] teward: that is what I'm getting at :) Any major changes would need to be uploaded prior to the FeatureFreeze [19:20] sorry i'm running in "VeryImpatientMode" today >.> [19:21] FT job has me running at a billion RPMs. [19:21] openvswitch/ovn are a subset of openstack, they make no sense at all without the rest of openstack, so it wouldn't make sense to create a separate packageset just for them (separate from openstack) - so i think the only rational choices here are either fnordahl goes into openstack pkgset/team, or gets ppu for those specific pkgs [19:21] ddstreet: openvswitch/ovn is used outside of OpenStack, both in LXD and in Kubernetes. [19:21] and it seems fnordahl would prefer just ppu instead of joining openstack pkgset team [19:21] lxd uses ovn? [19:22] ddstreet: yes [19:22] you mean it *can* use ovn, or it always uses ovn? [19:22] ddstreet: it can use it [19:22] teward: did that answer your question btw? [19:22] yeah...would anyone ever set up lxd with ovn without openstack? [19:22] ddstreet: yes [19:22] ah ok well i suppose it is separate then [19:25] * ddstreet starts to set up ovn with lxd ;-) [19:25] :) [19:25] nothing else from me [19:25] i keep getting pulled left right up and down at FT job even though i work from home so *summons Cthulu for reasons* [19:25] fnordahl: can you tell me what's happening to a package uploaded to Ubuntu from the moment of upload until the moment it moves to the release pocket? [19:26] (I have no more questions 'cause sil asked the other one i was going to ask) [19:27] sil2100: In Ubuntu there is multiple pockets where packets live. Before going to the -main or -updates pocket the package will sitt in the -proposed pocket for a period (normally a week I believe) before it gets further promotion. If the upload is for a stable release (SRU) it would also need extra verification to confirm the upload addresses the issue at hand. [19:28] There are also other queues, autopackage tests that packages need to go through before hitting any pocket. [19:29] fnordahl: that's almost good. You mentioned a wait period in -proposed - can you elaborate a bit more about that? [19:31] i have 1 more q actually once you are done sil2100 [19:33] sil2100: So in the development release it appears I was mistaken about there being a fixed time before promotion. [19:34] There is a set of criterias that need to be met, such as builds for all architectures, dependencies satisfiable, no bugs on -proposed, passes tests etc before it can be promoted. [19:35] The purpose is also to get exposure to a smaller audience which have opted into -proposed so that one can get a reading before the package goes into -main in case there are unforseen problems [19:35] fnordahl: is the promotion from -proposed a manual process? [19:37] fnordahl: and a final follow up question - you're mentioning a -main pocket. Can you tell me more about it? Is the name correct? [19:40] I would think the package test infrastructure is at least partially automated, but I do not currently know if the promotion in the -development release is automatic if the criterias are met or if there is a manual vetting process at the end. [19:42] So pockets, when you frame the question it in that way it makes me wonder if I've used the wrong name [19:43] main is a set of packages that receive support, other classes of packages are described as being in "universe", "multiverse" etc [19:43] But regardless of support state, there are -updates -proposed and other pockets for them. [19:44] So I guess main is not a correct name for a pocket in that sense [19:44] sil2100 any follow up? i have just 1 more q [19:44] fnordahl: correct, we call this the 'release' pocket basically. As you have written, main and universe are components [19:45] No more questions from me, ddstreet go ahead! [19:45] fnordahl are you familiar with, or do you currently participate in, the sru exception process for openstack packages (which includes openvswitch/ovn)? [19:45] specifically the point release exception [19:46] ddstreet: yes, I am aware of there being what is described as an MRE, which allows SRU of upstream appointed point releases [19:47] i assume you would participate in that for the openvswitch/ovn packages, i.e. you would be uploading new point release versions sometimes? [19:47] Yes, that is the intention. We are currently behind on one of the OVN ones now which we want to correct [19:48] can you summarize the differences between the normal sru process and the openstack sru exception process? [19:48] at least the most important one(s) [19:50] If we for example have patches for three LP bugs in OVN and want to SRU those under the normal process, we need to perform full verification which includes a control test with a unpactched pacakge and demonstrate that a patched package resolves the problem for each separate bug (i.e. on 3 LP bugs). [19:51] With the sru exception process we instead perform a distro regression test on a whole set of changes, blessed by the upstream community, and when we find no problems we can SRU the set of changes from the point releae in one go. [19:52] ddstreet: at least that is the most important difference from performing the verification perspective. did that answer your question? [19:52] yep, thanks! nothing else from me [19:54] Ok, thank you for answering our questions [19:54] Thank you for asking them and taking the time to consider my application! [19:54] hm, I think we'll move this to the ML, but it should hopefully be fast as there's just one member that didn't yet have the occassion to ask questions [19:55] I think we'll vote then, via e-mail, since questions provide valuable information for all of us [19:55] So that would be most fair [19:55] Sounds good to me, should I subscribe to the devel-permissions list or will I be on Cc? [19:56] Ok... bad news is that I also actually have to go AFK in a moment, so I'd say let's end the meeting - I finished like one action item, but everything else is still in progress [19:56] fnordahl: I'll keep you in the loop o/ [19:56] But subscribing to devel-permissions is a good idea anyway ;) [19:57] #endmeeting [19:57] Meeting ended at 19:57:01 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-03-21-19.11.moin.txt [19:57] ack, will do :) [19:57] \o Thanks all [19:57] Apologies for having to end this early o/ [19:57] I'll follow up with an e-mail later