[15:50] <rbasak_remote> o/
[15:51] <rbasak_remote> I'll participate today as best as I can but I'm likely to appear and disappear on short notice so best not to wait for me.
[15:57] <rbasak_remote> Seems web chat won't hold my session open :-(
[16:00] <sil2100> !dmb-ping
[16:00] <sil2100> o/
[16:00]  * kanashiro waves
[16:00] <athos> o/
[16:01] <ddstreet> o/
[16:01] <rbasak_remote> Welcome kanashiro!
[16:01] <sil2100> I think this means we have a quorum!
[16:02] <kanashiro> rbasak_remote, thanks :)
[16:02] <sil2100> Is anyone interested in chairing the meeting?
[16:03] <ddstreet> maybe the opt-in chairing list should be updated if any new members are interested?
[16:03] <kanashiro> I could but I don't know how to manage the bot, maybe next time
[16:04] <rbasak_remote> As above I now need to run :-(
[16:05] <sil2100> Ok, I should be able to lead it then
[16:05] <seb128> hey, is meeting now?
[16:06] <sil2100> Sorry, am in another meeting as well, but I can start the meeting now
[16:06] <sil2100> seb128: yes!
[16:06] <sil2100> o/
[16:06] <sil2100> Welcome!
[16:06] <seb128> sorry I'm a bit late, also I don't know what I'm doing, didn't get any 'onboarding' so I don't even know if new members start today :p
[16:06] <ddstreet> sil2100 you're in another mtg? you shouldn't have to chair
[16:06] <seb128> thanks!
[16:06] <ddstreet> sil2100 i can chair if you are in another mtg
[16:07] <ddstreet> if you want
[16:07] <sil2100> ddstreet: ...could you? I'd be very grateful! I can, but I might sometimes be a bit distracted
[16:07] <ddstreet> sure i can chair
[16:07] <sil2100> If you could start and I could pick up in like 10 minutes
[16:07] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board
[16:07] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:07:44 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:07] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:08] <ddstreet> hi all, so just for reference for the new memebers in case you didn't know the agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[16:08] <kanashiro> ack
[16:08] <seb128> thx
[16:09] <ddstreet> also before we start i guess it may be helpful for anyone watching to know there are new members, the current list is https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members
[16:09] <ddstreet> #topic Current Meeting Chair
[16:10] <ddstreet> we don't normally discuss this one, but since there are new members, i guess i'll just mention if any of you would like to volunteer to take chairing shifts, the rotating list is opt-in
[16:10] <ddstreet> so feel free to add yourself to the list on the agenda page
[16:10] <seb128> 👍
[16:10] <ddstreet> i'll skip the long-term action items, as we usually do
[16:10] <ddstreet> #topic review of previous action items
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 update DMB KB to clarify new contributing developers should only be added to ~ubuntu-developer-members, not to ~ubuntu-dev nor ~ubuntu-uploaders (done)
[16:11] <ddstreet> looks like it's done
[16:11] <ddstreet> i think right?
[16:11] <ddstreet> i did not actually check
[16:11] <ddstreet> i'll assume it is any move on :)
[16:11] <sil2100> Yes, I think I did that!
[16:11] <ddstreet> thanks!
[16:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:11] <ddstreet> carry over?
[16:11] <sil2100> Carry over for now, it's a small item though
[16:11] <ddstreet> #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:11] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 to finalize xypron's Ubuntu Contributing Developer membership (done)
[16:12] <ddstreet> done also
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 to announce xypron's Ubuntu Contributing Developer successfull application (done)
[16:12] <ddstreet> and that looks done too
[16:12] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:12] <ddstreet> don't think teward is here today? i assume carry over for this one
[16:12] <ddstreet> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:12] <meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[16:13] <ddstreet> next is the applications
[16:13] <ddstreet> #topic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages
[16:13] <ddstreet> i think this is done now via the ML
[16:13] <ddstreet> so we just need an action to announce it and adjust ACL, any volunteers?
[16:14] <ddstreet> ok well i guess i can
[16:15] <ddstreet> #ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application
[16:15] <ddstreet> oops
[16:15] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application
[16:15] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application
[16:15] <sil2100> ddstreet: wait, so hm
[16:15] <ddstreet> no?
[16:15] <sil2100> ddstreet: regarding this - I don't think we actually need to decide first
[16:15] <ddstreet> i thought it was 4 +1?
[16:16] <sil2100> ddstreet: so this is basically a PPU for 2 packages, but question is: should this be a personal-PPU or should we create a openvswitch packageset?
[16:16] <sil2100> Since I think it might be something more people would want to request PPU
[16:16] <ddstreet> ah ok
[16:16] <sil2100> And I  think we had this concept that we try to check if there's some common use-cases
[16:17] <ddstreet> should this go to ML discussion or just decide now?
[16:18] <kanashiro> seems sensible to me to create a new package set
[16:18] <sil2100> If possible, we could discuss it here - since I think a packageset makes sense here. Anyone else agrees/disagrees?
[16:18] <kanashiro> +1
[16:18] <ddstreet> i had originally suggested to make them part of the openstack pkgset: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/jammy/openstack
[16:19] <ddstreet> however fnordahl clarified they are 'standalone' as far as being possible to use without o7k
[16:19] <seb128> I don't feel like i know enough about the topic to have an opinion on whether it's likely to see more people applying for that specific 2 packages
[16:19] <seb128> my personal approach would be to add the person and convert to a set if we ever get another person interested by the same packages
[16:20] <seb128> but if sets are cheap I don't really an issue with creating one
[16:20] <ddstreet> this might be a question better answered by people more familiar with the o7k and/or k8s areas?
[16:20] <ddstreet> re: packagesets, they are intertwined with seeding/germination, so i'm not sure if it's cheap or easy
[16:20] <ddstreet> or simple
[16:21] <ddstreet> but i'm not actually sure
[16:21] <rbasak_remote> Please not a packageset
[16:21] <ddstreet> also i am pretty sure we (i.e. DMB) cannot create packagesets
[16:22] <ddstreet> so probably this is a question for the TB since they are the only ones who can create packagesets i think?
[16:22] <ddstreet> the rules of what we can do aren't always completely clear
[16:22] <kanashiro> I like seb128's approach
[16:22] <rbasak_remote> It's just a bunch of extra admin. Personal packages were created for a specific exceptional case only. It's documented.
[16:23] <rbasak_remote> The DMB can decide for themselves on this one. It requires TB only because LP's ACLs aren't fine grained enough.
[16:23] <ddstreet> should we take this to the ML or does everyone agree on one direction or another?
[16:24] <rbasak_remote> But really there's no point making a packageset just for one reason and it's never traditionally been done that way. Better to just follow the existing pattern.
[16:24] <rbasak_remote> Just for one person
[16:25] <seb128> I'm +1 for just giving the ppu to fnordahl
[16:25] <seb128> if we have disagreement we should probably move that to the list?
[16:26] <sil2100> Ok, finally fully back
[16:26] <ddstreet> i think we have seb128 and rbasak_remote suggesting to just use ppu
[16:27] <rbasak_remote> I think everyone's happy with PPU? Looks like that's what was applied for and approved anyway?
[16:27] <ddstreet> i think i'd concur with that
[16:27] <ddstreet> kanashiro sil2100 you both ok with ppu approach?
[16:27] <kanashiro> yep
[16:27] <sil2100> Yeah, was reading backlog. I'm fine either way - if there's more people interested in getting the same PPU then I guess we can reconsider a packageset
[16:27] <ddstreet> sounds good
[16:28] <ddstreet> ok i added the action for announcing, i'll add action for adjusting acl
[16:28] <sil2100> I was proposing a packageset as this is what we basically did for raspi for Dave
[16:28] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet adjust fnordahl PPU acl
[16:28] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet adjust fnordahl PPU acl
[16:28] <sil2100> Dave (waveform) was applying for PPU for some raspi packages and we decided it made more sense to have it as a packageset as more people might want to have the same upload rights
[16:29] <sil2100> So I thought this is our process - if a grouping makes sense -> turn into a packageset
[16:29] <sil2100> The raspi packageset also has only one uploader
[16:29] <sil2100> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/jammy/raspi
[16:29] <sil2100> But I agree, it's faster this way
[16:29] <ddstreet> yeah, i don't really know what the specific process is, that probably would be a good thing to have a bigger discussion about and write down in official docs
[16:29] <seb128> that sounds a discussion we should have, but not here today
[16:29] <sil2100> +1
[16:29] <ddstreet> to figure out exactly when we shoudl create packageset vs ppu
[16:29] <ddstreet> yep
[16:29] <seb128> +1
[16:30] <ddstreet> should i put an action for that?
[16:30] <seb128> yes
[16:30] <sil2100> Can you assign it to me?
[16:30] <ddstreet> sure
[16:30] <sil2100> Thanks!
[16:30] <ddstreet> #action sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU
[16:30] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU
[16:30] <ddstreet> thanks!
[16:30] <ddstreet> ok lemme check agenda
[16:31] <ddstreet> oh wow that took longer than i thought, we do actually have another applicant today
[16:31] <athos> :)
[16:31] <ddstreet> #topic Athos Ribeiro application for MOTU
[16:31] <ddstreet> sorry for the delay athos :)
[16:31] <sil2100> \o/
[16:31] <ddstreet> athos can you introduce yourself?
[16:31] <athos> sure!
[16:31] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AthosRibeiro/MOTUDeveloperApplication
[16:32] <athos> Hello everyone! I am Athos, I worf for the Canonical server team. Up until now, my main focus was to maintain our OCI images. For the kk cycle, I will be working on php and postgresql, the former being the main reason for requesting MOTU today :)
[16:33] <rbasak_remote> Athos is a colleague on my team so as usual (for me in this situation) I intend to abstain unless everyone else is +3 and my +1 is need for quorum. So I might use this opportunity to drive home.  I'll be out ~20 minutes and then back to normal to vote if needed.
[16:33] <kanashiro> same for me ^
[16:34] <kanashiro> but I am not driving home :)
[16:34] <ddstreet> let's open it for any questions then, though i assume you 2 on the same team know athos well enough not to have any questions :)
[16:34] <sil2100> Sponsorship miner link: https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Athos+Ribeiro&sponsoree_search=name
[16:37] <sil2100> I still need a moment to browse through the application
[16:37] <seb128> no question from me
[16:40] <sil2100> athos: since you are applying for MOTU with driving transitions in mind, can you tell me what is a transition in the Ubuntu archive? How does one trigger a transition?
[16:43] <athos> Interestingly, I haven't seen a formal definition of what a transition is around the docs :) My understanding if it is when you build a package that will have rebuilds for it's reverse dependencies depend on different binaries; or,
[16:44] <athos> s/understanding if/understanding of it/
[16:46] <sil2100> Can you give an example of how one could start a transition?
[16:48] <athos> e.g., I am working on php-psr-log 3 right now, and it fails to migrate because civicrm in the archive depends on version 1 of that package; A simple rebuild of that package was tried in the past, but some metadata will need to change so the final binary package depends on the correct version of php-psr-log.
[16:48] <athos> This transition started when php-psr-log 3 was built and pushed to proposed
[16:49] <athos> as discussed recently, it is nice to send an email in the devel list boore starting it so everyone is in sync :)
[16:49] <athos> s/boore/before/
[16:50]  * rbasak is back
[16:51] <ddstreet> sil2100 any more q? just checking as we're approaching the hour
[16:52] <seb128> (side note since I'm new and trying to figure out how things work around here, I will probably bring that up later/on the list/offband, but should we review the applications before the meeting? it feels suboptimal having a 10 min blank after the application summary for people to go read the reference)
[16:52] <sil2100> hmm, I could ask some more questions about the transitions
[16:52] <ddstreet> not trying to rush, and i personally am able to stay past the hour
[16:52] <sil2100> seb128: we should! But it frequently happens that for instance I don't manage to do that in time, sadly!
[16:53] <seb128> I need to wrap at the hour sorry
[16:53] <sil2100> Ok, no questions then
[16:53] <ddstreet> ok last call for q then before moving to the vote
[16:54] <seb128> don't let me sidetrack the remaining of the meeting with my remark, I will raise that later in another way, it's also one meeting so I don't know how much that's a unlucky instance or if we a process issue to address
[16:54] <seb128> still no question from me
[16:54] <ddstreet> seb128 i completely agree, and there was some ML discussion last year around this you might be interested in reading for past context
[16:55] <ddstreet> but definitely i agree we should continue the discussion about it
[16:55] <ddstreet> ok let's vote
[16:55] <ddstreet> #vote Grant Athos Ribeiro MOTU
[16:55] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Athos Ribeiro MOTU
[16:55] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[16:55] <seb128> +1
[16:55] <meetingology> +1 received from seb128
[16:55] <ddstreet> +1 as before with ubuntu-server team acl, happy with technical work and process understanding, no concerns for MOTU
[16:55] <meetingology> +1 as before with ubuntu-server team acl, happy with technical work and process understanding, no concerns for MOTU received from ddstreet
[16:56] <sil2100> +1 (although be sure to familiarize yourself on how library transitions are started, thinking about sonames there!)
[16:56] <meetingology> +1 (although be sure to familiarize yourself on how library transitions are started, thinking about sonames there!) received from sil2100
[16:56] <ddstreet> kanashiro rbasak around to vote?
[16:56] <rbasak> Yes. Are we the only two left?
[16:56] <rbasak> (who are here)
[16:56] <rbasak> I think so?
[16:56] <kanashiro> +1 to reach quorum
[16:56] <meetingology> +1 to reach quorum received from kanashiro
[16:56] <sil2100> I think we have a + 3 situation and 2 people remaining that are from the server team
[16:56] <sil2100> \o/
[16:56] <rbasak> OK
[16:57] <rbasak> +1 to reach quorum (see abstention note above)
[16:57] <meetingology> +1 to reach quorum (see abstention note above) received from rbasak
[16:57] <ddstreet> #endvote
[16:57] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Athos Ribeiro MOTU
[16:57] <meetingology> Votes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[16:57] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:57] <ddstreet> congrats athos!
[16:57] <sil2100> athos: congratulations!
[16:57] <sergiodj> congratulations, athos!
[16:57] <schopin> athos: \o/
[16:57] <kanashiro> congrats athos :)
[16:57] <sil2100> DOes one of the newcomers want the action item of handling athos's application?
[16:57] <ddstreet> kanashiro as athos is on your team, do you want to take the action to announce and adjust acl?
[16:57] <seb128> congrats athos!
[16:57] <kanashiro> ddstreet, sure, I can do that
[16:57] <sil2100> Might be a good training opportunity!
[16:58] <kanashiro> indeed
[16:58] <ddstreet> #action kanashiro announce athos successful application
[16:58] <meetingology> ACTION: kanashiro announce athos successful application
[16:58] <rbasak> Details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_application
[16:58] <ddstreet> #action kanashiro adjust athos ACL for MOTU
[16:58] <meetingology> ACTION: kanashiro adjust athos ACL for MOTU
[16:59] <ddstreet> ok moving on, there is a delegated team application (submitted by me) but scheduled for the next meeting, so i'll skip it today
[16:59] <ddstreet> there are also AOB items added for discussion by me, but we're at the hour so
[16:59] <ddstreet> does anyone want to continue discussion now or defer these to next meeting and/or ML?
[17:00] <rbasak> Can we bump them to the next meeting for discussion please?
[17:00] <rbasak> However I encourage ddstreet to raise them on the ML first.
[17:00] <ddstreet> ok let's defer to next meeting, that's all then, thanks everyone!
[17:00] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 17:00:20 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-04-04-16.07.moin.txt
[17:00] <rbasak> I already started a thread on one of them.
[17:00] <sil2100> Maybe let's continue on the ML and, if it goes too slow, we can move them to the next meeting
[17:00] <sil2100> ddstreet: thank you for chairing! Sorry for the late notice o/
[17:00] <ddstreet> no prob
[17:01] <kanashiro> ddstreet, thanks for chairing
[17:01] <seb128> thanks