[15:15] <diddledani> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bojppstlgBc
[15:25] <zxmpi> hot dog linux... i have looked at using dosbox on all my systems for a distraction free ui
[15:40] <davef> what in horrifying hell is that? seems like a lot of dicking around getting it to work. 
[15:40] <zxmpi> just part of the suffering :-)
[15:51] <davef> i'm of the camp of install and run these days. I do too much cli at work, I don't need it at home too.
[16:10] <daftykins> hehe
[16:12] <daftykins> diddledani: any luck overcoming your sleep woes?
[16:13] <diddledani> still struggling.. getting about 5 hrs a night atm
[16:14] <daftykins> ooh err, i wish i could get by on that so i could be more productive and see daylight hours xD
[16:18] <zxmpi> thatcher famously got by on 4hours sleep a night. not sure that's a good indicator mind
[16:19] <daftykins> yeah i hear you start dreaming about coal miners in that 4 hours
[16:19] <daftykins> ;)
[16:21] <daftykins> wow my mate got a quote for a phone system at this dentists place he's asked me to do a quote for
[16:21] <daftykins> a competitor to our local incumbent wants over £2,500 to put in an ISDN backed Mitel phone system
[16:22] <zxmpi> isdn. been a while since i saw one of those
[16:22] <daftykins> well that's my concern, the incumbent EOL'd ISDN in 2019 according to their news briefs
[16:23] <daftykins> my research so far has brought up a £300 Yealink DECT VoIP system, just with the issue of either using an adapter box to take PSTN -> SIP or signing up with a VoIP service instead
[16:24] <zxmpi> how long does the average phone system last? >10years? will isdn be around then?
[16:25] <daftykins> doubt it, i can't even get a call or email back from the incumbent - they at least offer a cloud PBX service, just don't seem to want any business
[16:27] <zxmpi> or their phone/email service is terrible preventing them from calling you :-)
[16:28] <daftykins> haha
[16:28] <daftykins> well i caught one of them once by phone when she must have been out to lunch, said she'd be back in after a given time... never answered since
[16:33] <daftykins> https://business.sure.com/news-and-insights/2019/sure-launches-cloud-voice-service-as-alternative-to-isdn/
[16:35] <zxmpi> i liked isdn, i really did. it was just that ireland telco charged for 2 calls if you wanted 128kbs
[16:36] <zxmpi> so it was fairly dead in the water on arrival. plus they wanted 128kbs to qualify as broadband as they had equipped the entire island with isdn in the 80s
[16:37] <daftykins> i knew some lads back in the day on ISDN, at first i was wowed by the 14 KB/sec download speeds but i found it hilarious when ADSL launched and they had to pay extra to convert their digital lines back over to get it xD
[16:38] <zxmpi> had to rip out the fibre and bung in good old copper :-D
[16:38] <daftykins> eh? it was still copper
[16:39] <davef> ISDN was lust worthy for us mere 56K modem plebs
[16:39] <daftykins> until you saw the price, yeah
[16:39] <davef> The day that ADSL was turned on in my area, I was one of the first to sign up.. 512K goodness
[16:39] <daftykins> i was a mere unemployed nipper in school though so i'd have had no chance, i was lucky my Dad was willing to pay for AOL xD
[16:40] <daftykins> yeah same! with the ol' Alcatel Speedtouch USB transceiver as they provided over here
[16:40] <zxmpi> you didn't get 980 free hours of aol on a floppy?! :-P
[16:40] <davef> Today I find myself lusting after 3Gbps fiber, which is available in the apartment I'm moving to in June :) 
[16:41] <davef> AKA the "stingray"
[16:41] <daftykins> indeedy
[16:41] <daftykins> heh, pal in Geneva has 10 Gb - the WAN interface genuinely is capable of 10, but the LAN side ports are 2.5 Gb tops
[16:42] <daftykins> it's only due to buying a brand new PC that he got a motherboard with a 2.5 Gb NIC too
[16:42] <davef> I remember when you maxed out the stingray, it would sometimes desync or even power off if your USB port didn't provide the full output
[16:42] <daftykins> :D
[16:42] <daftykins> gone are the days of supplying the mgmt.o firmware file to IPCop on an old Pentium II PC as my dedicated router
[16:43] <davef> anyway, i'm going to get gigabit fiber at the new place. 3gbps is nice, but overkill.
[16:44] <daftykins> i agree, since the rollout here will normalise at £125/mo for gigabit, i might only be able to stretch to the next tier down - which looks to be 300/30
[16:44]  * zxmpi puts in reminder for 3months from now when davef will be complaining that 3gbs is too slow :-D
[16:45] <davef> Nah, just going to go with 1Gbps. It's cheaper
[16:47] <davef> the only problem is the company equipment, it's GPON. so I have to use their router.
[16:47] <daftykins> oh eww
[16:48] <davef> however, i have recently discovered it supports PPPoE, so I plug my router into the second WAN port, PPPoE that thing and boom.. my hardware
[16:48] <davef> which would be nice.. two public IPs
[16:48] <daftykins> they'll just install an ONT here with the NIC to do the same, allegedly
[16:49] <davef> Bell changed their hardware, the old version you could just unplug the SFP adapter and plug into your own
[16:49] <daftykins> sucks my little PCEngines APU systems are hamstrung by pfSense's single-queue single-thread PPPoE implementation though, means they're not gigabit capable
[16:49] <davef> But the new one the SFP is built-in
[16:51] <davef> my router can handle GbE when using PPPoE
[16:51] <davef> so no concerns there
[16:52] <daftykins> mmm other OSs can handle it via multi-queue or just a fast enough CPU can do it fine
[16:52] <daftykins> the pfSense devs seem to just close a ticket enquiring about it and have no intention of developing it
[17:07] <davef> It's something that needs to be done upstream in FreeBSD
[17:08] <daftykins> well that's only the approach when they're unwilling to do something themselves surely
[17:08] <daftykins> it's not like some grand broad difficult feature
[17:09] <davef> Netgate only develop the fancy UI.. everything else is done in FreeBSD
[17:09] <davef> when they "sponsored" the work for Wireguard, it didn't go into pfSense, it went into FreeBSD.
[17:09] <daftykins> yeah i get that
[17:09] <daftykins> heh, before it was then pulled again :D
[17:10] <davef> it was pulled by the freebsd devs because it was crappy code
[17:10] <davef> then it was re-engineered as a kernel mod
[17:10] <daftykins> yeah i know the whole story around it
[17:11] <davef> since then it's been perfectly stable. got a couple fbsd boxes hanging off wireguard back to my router.
[17:13] <daftykins> i've no interest in it at present
[17:42] <daftykins> weird i only just noticed an email marked as read already that has answers from the client i'd been waiting for for a while
[17:42] <daftykins> heh, the German guys at this dentists seem very fond of the FRITZ!Box routers, they want to try and run their phone system solely from that - laughable really
[17:43] <daftykins> they're just consumer junk
[20:13] <penguin42> daftykins: Depressingly a lot of people are moving to cloud based voip, like ringcentral
[21:56] <daftykins> penguin42: what do you find depressing about it, do you like ol' PSTN?
[22:28] <penguin42> daftykins: Well, I mean instead of running their own or controllable voip solution
[22:33] <daftykins> penguin42: oh right, well the thing is if i suggest a PSTN adapter to use an existing traditional landline, i can't be 100% it'll keep being do-able once the fibre rollout here continues and copper is switched off
[22:36] <penguin42> nod
[22:37] <daftykins> a UK friend suggested i speak to Andrews and Arnold 
[22:38] <penguin42> they have a reputation for being able to solve most problems and actually know what they're doing
[22:38] <daftykins> pretty positive they wouldn't be able to use a Guernsey number, but their VoIP rates are low - and 1.25p/min isn't too bad for calls to Guernsey landlines
[22:39] <daftykins> incoming is more than likely the main mode of operation for a dental surgery, too
[22:39] <penguin42> of course half the people phoning a dental surgery are struggling to speak properly
[22:40] <daftykins> lol
[22:40] <daftykins> and they all call at 2:30pm