[06:38] <m4t> upgrade from 20.04 -> 22.04 with 'do-release-upgrade -d' did NOT go well. first time, it froze during the firefox snap install then i accidentally alt-sysrq-b and hard rebooted, i guess due to being on a custom kernel without apparmor support. second time tmux froze up (was in single user mode on console). third time 'screen' froze up. fourth time it nearly made it through then failed during
[06:38] <m4t> nvidia dkms install because the running custom kernel was built with an older version of gcc-10 and the kernel gcc plugins wouldn't load. ran into the Ambiant-MATE-Dark theme having been dropped from ubuntu-mate-themes and marco-compton.desktop no longer being in the mate-tweak package, so it wouldn't start with my existing config..
[06:39] <m4t> after installing the themes from 20.04 and diverting several .desktop in /usr/share/mate/autostart/ along with removing NetworkManager and pipewire, i've got it more or less back to how it was
[06:39] <m4t> thank goodness for btrfs snapshots
[06:43]  * m4t kind of curious about pipewire, but pulseaudio also has native support for bluetooth LDAC codec in 22.04
[13:36] <luna> https://latenightlinux.com/linux-downtime-episode-45/ Ubuntu MATE episode
[13:40] <sixwheeledbeast> Ambiant-MATE-Dark isn't included? Oh I need to look at that.
[13:41] <sixwheeledbeast> I wonder what would happen if you don't have snapd.
[13:45] <sixwheeledbeast> I am actually thinking of a fresh install in the near future and just pulling over what I need. I have a mess of config files that are at least a decade old and probably dead. I keep putting it off and upgrading, it just works.
[17:15] <lapion> Will there be a return of the deb firefox ?
[17:27] <alkisg> Not soon. See  https://balintreczey.hu/blog/firefox-on-ubuntu-22-04-from-deb-not-from-snap/
[17:30] <sixwheeledbeast> You can get it from a tarball straight from the site, it is daft for a linux distro. All these default snaps are frustrating.
[18:39] <dubiousness> lapion: I was similarly confused when firefox took ages to start up, I'm not completely up on snaps but I just removed it and installed the flatpak version
[19:25] <lapion> I wish there was a opt out for snaps
[19:26] <lapion> I have found a ppa for firefox.. however there are many more snaps..
[19:26] <superkuh> Canonical has one job. Instead they just push it upstream and make things more complex, slow, and fragile than having an actual coherent system. :(
[19:27] <superkuh> Partially (mostly) because modern software dev is going full retard and any distro older than a few years (or even months with the FF Rust deps now!) is going to have trouble building.
[19:28] <lapion> Upon removing all usefull menu systems for the aps and focusing on touch devices Canonical lost die hard linux users, developers and the better half of the debuggers... So they dod not get feedback
[19:29] <lapion> Thank goodness for the mate desktop..
[19:30] <superkuh> MATE isn't safe though. Gtk3 was eroded under it and 4 continues the tradition.
[19:30] <superkuh> If MATE ever switches.
[19:31] <lapion> MATE also did the mistake of removing the 3 menu system, especially removing the "Places" menus 
[19:31] <alkisg> Eh, it's still there
[19:31] <alkisg> You just need to select it from mate-tweak
[19:31] <lapion> You but not in the default menu
[19:32] <lapion> It should be something in a less obfuscated menu settings
[19:32] <superkuh> Default in all the other MATE using distros that pick MATE but not Ubuntu. It's not an optimal situation.
[21:30] <sixwheeledbeast> Yer OOTB it's been "Familiar" over "Traditional" for a while on Ubuntu-Mate I am not keen myself
[21:38] <sixwheeledbeast> Why hide it's USP IMO. The Familiar layout is just upside down Mint. It's a minor point in the scheme of things tho.