[00:00] <leftyfb> then why remove it?
[00:00] <de-facto> its just not my cup of tea
[00:01] <leftyfb> yeah, I hate when things are more secure, kept up to date according to the vendor's release schedule and are cross-platform
[00:01] <leftyfb> it's even worse when it just works without issues. remove it immediately
[00:02]  * srv just running ubuntu 22.04
[00:03] <de-facto> just trying out the live system from the stick
[00:09] <srv> im just installing it on wsl
[00:09] <de-facto> hmm so without snap there is no web browser available in ubuntu 22.04?
[00:09] <srv> or just upgraded to ubuntu 22.04
[00:10] <leftyfb> de-facto: not installed
[00:10] <srv> you can try ./sudo apt install firefox-esr
[00:10] <srv> i install the debian version
[00:10] <srv> i hate snap
[00:10] <de-facto> is there a repo that contains a up to date firefox?
[00:11] <leftyfb> srv: firefox-esr is not part of the ubuntu repo's
[00:11] <srv> i know
[00:11] <leftyfb> de-facto: none that are supported here. Google might have some though
[00:11] <srv> but you can install it
[00:11] <leftyfb> de-facto: all this effort to remove something which works perfectly fine
[00:12] <srv> is just a sugestion  thats all
[00:12] <leftyfb> de-facto: mind you, Mozilla manages the snap, not Canonical
[00:13] <de-facto> sorry to hear that :(
[00:13] <leftyfb> AFAIK, Mozilla does not maintain a .deb repo for firefox
[00:14] <leftyfb> de-facto: you have yet to give any valid reason why you can't just use the snap
[00:14] <de-facto> i just dont like it sorry
[00:14] <leftyfb> based on what?
[00:15] <de-facto> the architecture, that it creates a lot of mounts etc
[00:15] <leftyfb> those are jailed environments to keep it separated from other processes for security
[00:16] <leftyfb> not sure how that affects anything regardless
[00:17] <de-facto> yeah its ok, but i dont want it
[00:17] <srv> lol
[00:18] <cbreak> the biggest problem with snaps is that they're impossible to update
[00:18] <cbreak> and have their own copy of potentially vulnerable dependencies
[00:18] <leftyfb> cbreak: sudo snap update <package name>
[00:18] <cbreak> so you depend on the snap packager on updating every single library for you
[00:18] <ogra> s/update/refresh/
[00:19] <leftyfb> cbreak: also, they update on their own automatically. So the exact opposite of being impossible to update
[00:19] <ogra> cbreak, thats not true ,,, snaps use libs from frameworks ...
[00:19] <leftyfb> cbreak: every package has everything it needs built into it. No dependencies
[00:19] <cbreak> leftyfb: wrong
[00:19] <cbreak> they're full of dependencies
[00:19] <cbreak> dependencies which are impossible to update
[00:20] <cbreak> because they're baked into the image
[00:20] <ogra> how many snap packages do you maintain ?
[00:20] <cbreak> as I said above: you have to rely on the snap creator to update everything for you
[00:20] <cbreak> ogra: they can't be maintained by anyone other than the creator, that's the problem
[00:21] <cbreak> and every single of them contains its own copy of its dependencies
[00:21] <cbreak> so if I update a library in ubuntu with some security fix, this security fix will not be used by any snap package
[00:21] <ogra> cbreak, how many snap packages do you maintain ? how much o you know about the process involved (and about the regular security vulnerability mails you get etc etc etc )
[00:21] <leftyfb> cbreak: you're talking from snap maintainer perspective. I'm talking from user perspective. Every snap package has everything it needs and does not rely on any other .deb or snap packages installed on the machine (other than snapd)
[00:21] <cbreak> the snap packages will instead keep using their vulnerable version until the creator of the snap updates it for me
[00:22] <cbreak> leftyfb: I'm also talking about the user perspective
[00:22] <leftyfb> cbreak: then you are wrong
[00:22] <cbreak> no.
[00:22] <leftyfb> snaps do not rely on other .deb or snap packages
[00:22] <cbreak> you do realize that every snap contains its own copy of its dependencies, right?
[00:23] <leftyfb> I just said that
[00:23] <ogra> cbreak, again that is wrong
[00:23] <cbreak> so I obviously have to rely on the creator of that snap to update the dependencies
[00:23] <cbreak> I can't do it myself
[00:23] <cbreak> if I install a security update in ubuntu, it will not affect any snap
[00:23] <ogra> snaps use framwrks
[00:23] <ogra> sigh
[00:24]  * ogra gives up ... 
[00:24] <leftyfb> ogra: got a link you can point me to explaining this? I wasn't aware of this aspect
[00:24] <cbreak> maybe he's thinking about the base images
[00:25] <ogra> leftyfb, every snap that uses i.e. the gnome-x-xx interface uses the libs from there ... (pretty much all modern desktop snaps use that)
[00:25] <ogra> it is true that they ship some libs on their own ... but the majority of libs comes from the core snap or a framework snap
[00:25] <leftyfb> ok, but just the gnome-x-xx right? I have dozens of snaps installed and not one has ever pulled in any other snap
[00:26] <ogra> there are qt frameworks too
[00:26] <leftyfb> ah, gnome = framework snap
[00:26] <ogra> (or kde i think ... never used any of the QT ones)
[00:26] <leftyfb> but that's mainly the gtk stuff right?
[00:26] <ogra> well, its pretty much all desktop libs
[00:26] <ogra> plus themes and cursors
[00:27] <leftyfb> right, but that make sense. I don't think anyone would expect and entire DE to be contained in every snap
[00:27] <ogra> (just do a find in /snap/gnome-*/current/ ...)
[00:27] <ogra> right
[00:27] <leftyfb> but for something like libssl or the like
[00:28] <leftyfb> those would be part of every snap
[00:28] <ogra> there are definitely some additional libs package ship ... for these you get constant nagging mails from the store if you have a vulnerable one in your snap
[00:28] <ogra> *packages
[00:29] <cbreak> the only ones that can update those vulnerable libraries are the creators of those snaps :(
[00:29] <ogra> there is also work going on to auto-rebuild snaps when there is a security vulnerability in a shipped lib ... not sure where that stands though
[00:29] <cbreak> end users can't do it.
[00:29] <de-facto> hmm honestly this is kinda of a show stopper for me that there is no web browser without snap
[00:29] <leftyfb> cbreak: are you in the habit of rolling your own packages with security fixes?
[00:29] <Guest1969-mobile> I just discovered that installing a snap like chromium on the first boot on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 22.04 also borks the system, not only when removing firefox.
[00:30] <cbreak> leftyfb: no, I don't need to with native packages
[00:30] <cbreak> since ubuntu distributes fixes which I can just install
[00:30] <leftyfb> cbreak: snap is native to ubuntu
[00:30] <ogra> cbreak, you can always grab the snapcraft.yaml from the snap and do a local build if you feel like ...
[00:30] <cbreak> not natively ubuntu
[00:30] <leftyfb> snaps get updated with security fixed all on their own
[00:30] <cbreak> many packages are third party
[00:30] <cbreak> leftyfb: nope :(
[00:31] <cbreak> the snap creator has to do it
[00:31]  * leftyfb steps out of the circle 
[00:31] <cbreak> ubuntu has no say in it, for packages other than their own
[00:31]  * ogra really goes now ... 
[00:31] <ogra> Guest1969-mobile, note that in the bug please ... someone will look at it on monday
[00:32] <ksx4system> de-facto: can't you install Chrome (or other browser of your choice) using dpkg/apt on 22.04?
[00:33] <leftyfb> ksx4system: there are several web browsers available in the ubuntu repositories. chromium has been snap only for years. Firefox is snap only for the first time with 22.04
[00:33] <de-facto> yeah i would have prefered a maintained open source browser without snap
[00:33] <ksx4system> leftyfb, I have no idea what's the state of Chromium :( haven't used that since 2014 or so
[00:33] <cbreak> de-facto: maybe you can find an app image or flatpack :D (those have basically very similar issues though)
[00:33] <ksx4system> leftyfb, but yeah, I've heard about forcing snap for Firefox
[00:34] <leftyfb> de-facto: all of the browsers available in ubuntu are open source and maintained
[00:34] <leftyfb> ksx4system: there's nothing wrong with snaps
[00:34] <de-facto> yes but none is available out of snap
[00:34] <leftyfb> for the vast majority of desktop users
[00:34] <leftyfb> de-facto: false
[00:35] <ksx4system> leftyfb, I don't like them and would love to disable them entirely but it's my personal preference :)
[00:35] <de-facto> which browser is available without snap?
[00:35] <leftyfb> christ
[00:35] <cbreak> https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/konqueror ... hmm...
[00:36] <ksx4system> cbreak, KDE vibe detected
[00:36] <cbreak> indeed
[00:36] <cbreak> if you don't like GUIs, you could try lynx, links or similar
[00:37] <ksx4system> cbreak: and now I have KDE3 flashbacks lol
[00:37] <cbreak> kde plasma is nice.
[00:38] <cbreak> (I don't use konqueror...)
[00:38] <ksx4system> cbreak, I liked KDE4 more than I do KDE5 but it's nice :)
[00:38]  * ksx4system probably spent most of his Linux desktop time with KDE
[00:47] <DualMonitorHelp> Hey everyone I'm having a strange problem. Ever since I updated to 22.04 my gnome dash (the bar with pinned applications) switched which monitor it was on. I want the dash on my non primary display, and I'm not sure how to move it. Would anyone be able to help?
[00:50] <leftyfb> DualMonitorHelp: I'm pretty sure the dock stays on the primary display. Change your primary display if you want it on the other monitor
[00:51] <DualMonitorHelp> I think the dumb solution would be to reorder the monitors in xrandr, where my to monitors are listed as XRANDR0 and XRANDR1. If I could flip them I think I could trick gnome into placing the dash on the right monitor, but I don't know how this command would work.
[00:51] <DualMonitorHelp> Also it does not, changing my primary display actually does not move the dock
[00:51] <DualMonitorHelp> not XRANDR, XWAYLAND
[00:51] <DualMonitorHelp> i tried --left-of and --right-of which didn't change anything
[00:53] <de-facto> srv i tried to install Firefox like https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2022/04/install-firefox-deb-ubuntu-22-04/ prior to removing snap, seems to work
[00:55] <DualMonitorHelp> Gnome-tweaks doesn't seem to have any useful settings either
[01:01] <de-facto> hmm does gnome 42 not have the hot corner anymore?
[01:02] <DualMonitorHelp> settings -> multitasking has the setting
[01:03] <de-facto> oh nice thanks
[01:05] <de-facto> this new gnome is really neat :)
[01:06] <DualMonitorHelp> I agree! just still trying to place the dock on the window I want it on '=D
[01:11] <mtj> hey folks, how do i upgrade from impish to jammy, via cli?
[01:11] <mtj>  do-release-upgrade -c seems to not work for me
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> I had to run
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> sudo sed -i 's/impish/jammy/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> then I could
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> the first command updates the package sources to look at the new release and everything worked fine
[01:12] <DualMonitorHelp> YMMV
[01:13] <mtj> thanks DualMonitorHelp, that method was my plan-b :)
[01:14] <DualMonitorHelp> I just dealt with the same issue about an hour ago, and now I'm here because new update new gnome so I need some help placing things again haha
[01:15] <mtj> hmm, i wonder why 'do-release-upgrade' release wont work...
[01:15] <mtj> $ cat /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[01:15] <mtj> Prompt=lts
[01:15] <DualMonitorHelp> kept telling you that there isn't a new release right?
[01:15] <de-facto> DualMonitorHelp, have you looked in settings -> appearance ?
[01:16] <de-facto> there are settings for dock
[01:16] <de-facto> "Show on"
[01:16] <DualMonitorHelp> Thank you!
[01:16] <DualMonitorHelp> Completely missed the ball there, I really appreciate it!
[01:17] <DualMonitorHelp> Together de-facto we have both fully read the settings haha
[01:17] <de-facto> its all new and nicely integrated now, its neat :)
[01:19] <mtj> # do-release-upgrade
[01:19] <mtj> Checking for a new Ubuntu release
[01:19] <mtj> There is no development version of an LTS available.
[01:20] <DualMonitorHelp> mtj I can't offer you anything more information than what I've already let you know, which you seem to already be read up on. Anecdotally it worked just fine. I do wish I could be of more help.
[01:20] <DualMonitorHelp> de-facto thank you again for the help. I'm gonna be on my way, I wish you all the best of luck
[01:20] <mtj> np
[01:20] <de-facto> thanks to you too, have fun :)
[01:29] <Bashing-om> mtj: 22.04 remains in development status until the .1 relase - thus it is ' sudo do-release-upgrade -d ' - the -d for development release.
[01:34] <mtj> Bashing-om: aah, many thanks
[01:35] <mtj> is .1 scheduled to be releases may 21st-ish?
[01:36] <jhutchins> mtj: I would expect it would depend more on what needs to be fixed/updated than a fixed date.
[01:38] <mtj> makes sense
[01:39] <ElijahTW> join #linux
[01:52] <kryten> mtj: Didn't you say you are on Impish currently though?  Then why do you have "Prompt=lts" set?  And to be clear, the upgrade to Jammy on the LTS path is indeed only opened after its first point release, while the upgrade on the regular path is going to be opened in a matter of days after a few critical bugs have been fixed.
[01:54] <mtj> kryten: i had manually set "Prompt=lts", as i was having no success with do-release-upgrade
[01:58] <mtj> ..looks like a combo of "Prompt=lts" and  do-release-upgrade -d might have doen the trick
[01:59] <mtj> fyi, the sed method seems to have worked :)
[02:21] <de-facto> hmm how can i set the subpixel rendering order in Ubuntu 22.04?
[02:21] <de-facto> i need to change RGB -> BGR
[02:21] <de-facto> https://askubuntu.com/questions/98531/how-can-i-change-font-rendering-to-sub-pixel-bgr-ordering
[02:21] <de-facto> this does not seem to be present anymore in the new Gnome
[02:22] <de-facto> in good old gnome 2 it was a gui setting
[02:22] <de-facto> now i have to search for strings in the settings that disappear :/
[03:07] <de-facto> gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings rgba-order 'bgr'      gives me the error No such key “rgba-order”
[03:07] <de-facto> where is that key then?
[03:08] <de-facto> font rendering looks horrible, i have a BRG monitor and need to switch subpixel rendering from RGB -> BGR
[03:15] <Crucifyy> well 22.04 seems alright so far..
[03:17] <JoeBk> ubuntu software has a problem uninstalling apps
[03:17] <Crucifyy> havent gotten into that yet
[03:17] <Crucifyy> firefox seems faulty too
[03:17] <JoeBk> try it.
[03:18] <jhutchins> Crucifyy: No other reports so far, what specific problem do you have?
[03:18] <JoeBk> I didn't notice because I don't use firefox.
[03:19] <jhutchins> JoeBk: "has a problem" is pretty vague.
[03:19] <Crucifyy> jhutchins: lol yea sorry, mine wont luanch when i click it... i have to right click it and select open new window
[03:20] <JoeBk> ubuntu software gets an error when  you attempt to remove an app.
[03:20] <JoeBk> it throws an error message
[03:20] <JoeBk> It's already been reported.
[03:20] <Crucifyy> Opera hangs for like 2 min before it launches too
[03:22] <de-facto> may need longer for first run, to initialize all the settings or such
[03:23] <JoeBk> I'm not seeing a probblem with firefox.
[03:25] <Crucifyy> JoeBk: I just uninstalled it via software and had no issues there
[03:25] <Crucifyy> looks like we have opposite issues lol
[03:25] <JoeBk> uninstalled what?
[03:25] <de-facto> for me the snap version of firefox was unable to write in ~/Documents when trying to safe a PDF, hence i replaced it
[03:25] <Crucifyy> Firefox
[03:25] <leftyfb> why would you do that?
[03:26] <leftyfb> de-facto: that is easily fixed
[03:26] <JoeBk> did you use command line or the app?
[03:26] <Crucifyy> app
[03:27] <de-facto> ok just reporting my experience
[03:28] <JoeBk> I just tried to uninstall mahjongg and got an error.
[03:29] <human0123[m]> how do I disable os-prober while installing ubuntu 22.04, is there any way to do that?
[03:29] <de-facto> safe PDF from the print to PDF dialogue i should add i guess
[03:33] <jhutchins> JoeBk: Getting an error is not significant.  What the error says might be significant.
[03:34] <JoeBk> why don't you just try it.
[03:34] <JoeBk> a bug report has alredy been made.
[03:36] <kryten> LP bug 1969303 for reference, and it seems to only affect .deb packages, which would be why the issue isn't exhibited on removing the Firefox snap.
[03:36] <de-facto> any idea how to set subpixel order for font rendering ?
[03:41] <de-facto> fonts look really blurry with rainbow effects
[03:41] <Crucifyy> Spotify wont launch either... hmm
[03:42] <Crucifyy> opens the window, but nothing shows up
[03:42] <JoeBk> opera is only slow the first time it's run.
[03:43] <JoeBk> vlc does the same thing.
[03:43] <de-facto> yeah thats what i thought
[03:43] <de-facto> it probably needs time to initialize its dot files and settings for first run
[03:44] <Crucifyy> 5 min later and you're right
[03:44] <Crucifyy> just popped up
[03:46] <jimgray> Hello, I installed Ubuntu server 20.04.4 as VM.
[03:46] <jimgray> How to boot the VM in text mode? I mean to show the boot process, seeing the booting log
[03:49] <JoeBk> spotify worked for me.
[03:51] <de-facto> oh yay i found it: RGB -> BGR subpixel rendering is: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface font-rgba-order 'bgr'
[03:51] <Crucifyy> JoeBk: Spotify is working now, took 5 or so min to launch though
[03:52] <JoeBk> worked for me without delay
[03:52] <de-facto> nice i like the new ubuntu more and more :)
[03:53] <Crucifyy> Discord took a few min too
[03:53] <de-facto> jimgray, might need to remove "quiet splash" in the grub boot menu i guess
[03:54] <Crucifyy> first start stuff i guess??? Everything is on a NvME, not really used to 5 min starts.. lol
[03:55] <JoeBk> Crucifyy, thats normal for a lot of apps that require a lot of initialization
[03:56] <Crucifyy> JoeBk, im sure, just wasnt doing it on 20.04. so idk
[03:57] <jimgray> it does not have such boot option
[03:58] <de-facto> jimgray, what i meant is that each boot entry has an argument list that is given to the kernel (instructions how to do that specific boot). you can edit it with pressing "e" when highlighting a menu entry in grub and then F10 to use the edited version iirc
[03:59] <de-facto> you could try to remove the words: quiet splash
[03:59] <jimgray> de-facto: yeap, but no such words there "quiet splash"
[03:59] <de-facto> in the edit mode of grub?
[03:59] <jimgray> yep
[03:59] <de-facto> hmm
[03:59] <jimgray> I am using teh Ubuntu server ISO
[04:01] <de-facto> what do you see in the booting process then?
[04:01] <Marz> Does ubuntu run on m1 macbook
[04:01] <jimgray> de-facto: nothing, but just show me the login
[04:02] <jimgray> Marz: yep, on M1 VM
[04:02] <jimgray> installed as virtual machine
[04:02] <jimgray> the systemctl get-default is graphical.target
[04:04] <de-facto> jimgray, what is in your /etc/default/grub ?
[04:07] <Bluecoat> Anyone seeing pipewire problems after updating to Jammy?  It's acting like I have no sound devices attached.
[04:13] <jimgray> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=""
[04:13] <jimgray> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""
[04:13] <jimgray> de-facto: seems the grub menu has gfxmode setup
[04:14] <de-facto> hmm ok, careful with changes there, it may break booting
[04:14] <de-facto> after changes you need to run: sudo update-grub
[04:15] <de-facto> i was suspecting RUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" but yours already is clean it seems
[04:15] <de-facto> actually then i am not sure why it wont show text at bootup process
[04:16] <jimgray> de-facto: let me google a bit
[04:17] <jimgray> #GRUB_TERMINAL_OUTPUT=console
[04:17] <jimgray> I found this line
[04:18] <de-facto> i am not sure about the other settings there, be careful it may break your boot process if you change things that you dont really know
[04:18] <de-facto> i only was after "quiet splash" because i know that this would not break booting
[04:19] <de-facto> also having a backup of files never hurts
[04:20] <jimgray> de-facto: sure. backup first before try
[04:21] <JoeBk> de-facto, I'm going to try it on my system.
[04:24] <JoeBk> It output a bunch of stuff when it booted.
[04:25] <de-facto> yeah as it should, the output of the kernel from booting
[04:28]  * enigma9o7[m] uploaded an image: (396KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/MPtHbzqFxjvuGUfrOzTkouXK/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-23%2021-27-56.png >
[04:28] <enigma9o7[m]> I want to install firefox from mozilla team ppa (not snap).  How do I keep it from wanting to install the snap?
[04:29] <enigma9o7[m]> Even if I install manually by specifying that version number, it still wnats to upgrade to the snap.
[04:29] <enigma9o7[m]> So my question is how do I do apt pinning or preferences to make it so that it doesnt have the snap as the installation candidate.
[04:34] <JoeBk> enigma9o7[m], did you try downloading firefox from mozilla?
[04:34] <enigma9o7[m]> You mean ever?  Sure I've tried that before.  Works fine.
[04:35] <Bashing-om> enigma9o7[m]: See: https://balintreczey.hu/blog/firefox-on-ubuntu-22-04-from-deb-not-from-snap/ .
[04:35] <enigma9o7[m]> That version updates itself.
[04:35] <enigma9o7[m]> (The version from mozilla I mean)
[04:35] <enigma9o7[m]> Ah thanks bashing-om, that looks like the info I was looking for about pinning stuff, thanks much!
[04:36] <Bashing-om> enigma9o7[m]: :D - Ubuntu-- one for all and all for the one.
[04:39] <enigma9o7[m]> And yep it worked.  Excellent.
[04:53] <bluegrn2> hi all.im thinking of changing the driver of this wifi adapter using the non-free ver,question is:how do you check if the new driver is the latest ? coz i might just be installing same version.
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> bluegrn2: sudo lshw -C network will show you driver=...version
[04:55] <bluegrn2> lotuspsychje, yea,i saw the existing version beforehand,but the about to download doesnot specify its version
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> bluegrn2: usualy you can compare that version with the website of your chipset brand, or their git
[04:55] <dacompchomp> try typing this into ur command line: lspci -v
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> bluegrn2: whats the reason you want to move to a higher version?
[04:56] <bluegrn2> ill be using : deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster non-free
[04:57] <JoeBk> is there any word on when they are going to do updates?  I would like that uninstall ug fixed.
[04:57] <de-facto> i am so happy that BGR subpixel rendering works on 22.04, it looks awesome now :)
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> bluegrn2: we can only support ubuntu releases here, debian has their own channel
[04:58] <JoeBk> bug*
[04:58] <bluegrn2> lotuspsychje, and this too https://sourceforge.net/projects/ath9k-htc/files/
[04:58] <bluegrn2> ohh.. sorry
[04:59] <kostkon_> !debian
[05:00] <de-facto> also extensions.gnome.org work with native FF and extension
[05:01] <bluegrn2> ubottu, so its not recommended using the non free driver ?
[05:01] <de-facto> its a bot
[05:01] <bluegrn2> what are the risk using gnome extensions ?
[05:02] <de-facto> i guess trusting the developer as always?
[05:03] <dacompchomp> i have a question regarding sound output. i keep getting dummy output only for my pc's inbuilt speaker (bluetooth earbuds work though). no input method detected either. i know its not a hardware issue because this computer originally had macOS installed, and the sound output worked fine. ive also tried the ubuntu forums and messing around with my cofiguration files, but nothing has worked so far
[05:03] <bluegrn2> lotuspsychje,  lspci -v Will this show the latest versions ? im trying to change drivers coz it might fix the frequent drops of the wifi
[05:04] <dacompchomp> bluegrn2, yes lspci -v should show you info
[05:05] <dacompchomp> you can also try " | grep wireless" if you want to search for the wifi directly
[05:09] <bluegrn2> lspci -v did not show drivers for atheros
[05:10] <de-facto> sudo lshw -C network
[05:10] <enigma9o7[m]> dont think it should show drivers, only hardware
[05:17] <Bashing-om> enigma9o7[m]: Look in the configuration line >> " configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes driver=8139too "
[05:40] <bluegrn2> is it possible to peak inside a deb installer w/o installing it to see the driver's version ?
[05:43] <raehta> !archivemount
[05:44] <raehta> archivemount file.deb mountpoint
[05:46] <raehta> !ar
[05:46] <raehta> man ar
[05:56] <jadew> hey guys, any idea on how to make the left pane of nautilus show "other locations" in there too, instead of opening them in the right pane?
[05:58] <lotuspsychje> jadew: try dconf-editor for tweaks
[05:59] <jadew> lotuspsychje, I tried, but the option that used to work, doesn't
[05:59] <jadew> the side-pane-view option appears to have been removed
[06:00] <jadew> and the view menu is gone or I don't know how to access it, the whole app seems severely crippled and I'm thinking I must be missing something
[06:02] <jadew> is this possible?
[06:11] <enigma9o7[m]> they're in fstab?
[06:13] <jadew> enigma9o7[m], no
[06:16] <dacompchomp> i have problems with my sound configuration. i realize now its because my dmic_detect option is decapitated, and to fix it i should insert "snd-intel-dspcfg.dsp_driver=1" into some or other configuration file. the difficulty is that i do not know which configuration file this is. could someone please point me in the right direction?
[06:24] <ravage> dacompchomp, looks like a kernel option. so that would be /etc/default/grub. dont forget to run update-grub afterwards
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> jadew: wich ubuntu release/nautilus version are you on?
[06:29] <jadew> lotuspsychje, 22.04
[06:29] <jadew> nautilus (aka Files) 42.0
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> fresh install or upgraded jadew
[06:30] <jadew> fresh
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> kk
[06:30] <jadew> I'm switching to something else, this thing is useless
[06:31] <jadew> maybe nemo
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> jadew: always-use-location-entry is what you want?
[06:31] <jadew> no, I believe that makes the location bar into a text box
[06:32] <lotuspsychje> you mean cltr+l ?
[06:32] <jadew> yeah
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> jadew: i can still trigger ctrl+l then add lets say computer to left pane favs
[06:36] <jadew> yeah, but if you have multiple disks they won't show up there, and if you fav them and they're not mounted you can't access them
[06:37] <lotuspsychje> sounds more like a mount issue then nautilus?
[06:38] <jadew> I don't want to automount everything
[06:38] <dacompchomp> ravage: thanks. ill give that a try
[06:45] <jadew> installed Nemo
[06:58] <hgj> 𐀪𐀪
[07:03] <nikolam> Linux is quite stupid OS. And Ubuntu is too. Is it about Ubuntu, is it about systemd or Linux itself..   Why (oh why) system won't boot if it is not able to boot if ANY item in /etc/fstab is not available.. (like , external dataset volume on USB drive on top of ZFS that is not available on system boot..)  . Same thing is for any other unmountable item in /etc/fstab..
[07:04] <nikolam> Plus on GRUB I promptly get to lodad ROOT priviledged prompt, without asking for root or user password!
[07:04] <nikolam> So Ubuntu is UNSECURE by default, without GRUB password (I bet more then 99% of Ubuntu installations do not have set GRUB password)
[07:05] <ravage> nikolam, see the nobootwait and nofail fstab options. to protect your data use encryption
[07:05] <nikolam> Plus Linux is in general stupid OS. Not able to mount one drive? Allright, I will just die! :((
[07:07] <nikolam> ravage, that is actually a great suggestion , thanks. Yet, default /etc/fstab options do not have such option set. Why even boot wait is a thing.. To ruin peopel's lives on desktop I suppose.
[07:09] <MastusAR_webchat> Quick question - has someone installed 22.04LTS successfully from a DVD?
[07:10] <ravage> MastusAR_webchat, in a VM yes
[07:10] <nikolam> Yes, and plus, Ubuntu's OpenZFS implementation does not re-import external ZFS dataset on USB drive..
[07:10] <nikolam> I need to manually type zpool import every time. Or is it general messed up ZFSonLinux issue in general..
[07:10] <ravage> nikolam, ZFS and removeable media are not a great combination. i would always manage those manually
[07:11] <nikolam> ravage, pecisely. Issue is that Linux and Ubuntu and ZfsOnLinux can't do it automatically.. Really sad.
[07:11] <ravage> im sure it can
[07:11] <nikolam> They mention some config files. For Zfs. That does not need any config files per se.
[07:12] <ravage> you just have to write a script for it with some udev rules
[07:12] <MastusAR_webchat> Well, 2 computers and 3 drives later the installer still hangs... I removed "quiet splash" from grub and multiple services seem to timeout and ultimately I get "Failed to start Ubuntu live CD installer"
[07:12] <ravage> i may have a USB DVD drive here but nothing to burn one. so i cant really test that
[07:13] <nikolam> ravage, Yes, that is also great suggestion thanks. Except it is not applicable across milions of users. And the moment desktop user is asked to write "a script" to that external drive and FS would mount.. they will just go away.
[07:13] <MastusAR_webchat> Meanwhile the drive shoeshines like crazy, as some check is going on
[07:13] <ravage> nikolam, your usecase is limited. you are the first to mention that here at all
[07:14] <MastusAR_webchat> I put fsck.mode=skip in grub, and then the installation went fine
[07:14] <ravage> ZFS is an advanced option on the installer. so most users do not use it at all
[07:14] <ravage> MastusAR_webchat, the installer does a verification of the media. maybe that gets stuck. i cant test it with a real drive atm
[07:15] <nikolam> ravage, If I ever had a bit of money people tell me "you are the first one to mention that" , especially on support services, trying to dissuade me from insisting on it, I would be a millioner :)
[07:15] <ravage> dont spend it all on drugs
[07:15] <thingfish> lol
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> did you create a bug on that nikolam
[07:16] <ravage> i dont think thats a bug
[07:16] <ravage> there is just no ZFS automount
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> wishlist bug then?
[07:16] <nikolam> ravage, ZFS in Ubuntu installer is actually not very useful. It as i last tried, to ultimately format whole drive, instead just creating a boot dataset and install in it.. Also booting solution is cumbersome to say ate least. (Not using nice Boot Environments.. )
[07:16] <ravage> i wrote my own systemd script to do that. works fine :)
[07:17] <ravage> nikolam, not sure what you are asking for now. if you dont like Ubuntu at all use something else
[07:17] <nikolam> lotuspsychje, youa re also very much right. I just first always come to discuss the issue. So I can get valuable feedback if I make sense.
[07:18] <ravage> if you want a general discussion see #ubuntu-discuss
[07:19] <raehta> can windows automount zfs?
[07:19] <nikolam> ravage, and that is the scene from "I robot" movie, when hologram of the dead scientist says to investigator: And that , my dear friend is the right question. :) I think that real answer is trying to make it better. Bug reports and code contributions are better path , at least before hitting the wall :)
[07:19] <nikolam> ravage, thanks
[07:19] <MastusAR_webchat> I reckon the disk and drive is fine (as it installs fine with the fsck.mode=skip and disk read test comes back fine). Most probably install from USB anyway, so I just thought to mention
[07:20] <nikolam> raehta, Well, quality of software on Windows , at least open tehnologies and FSs is rather very bad. ZFS implementation on Windows is actually sadly still broken.
[07:20] <ravage> !ot
[07:21] <raehta> so, windows is also a stupid os. What about macos and zfs automounting?
[07:21] <lotuspsychje> stop it please raehta
[07:21] <nikolam> MastusAR_webchat, well som FS's does not need fsck on boot. Some of them are as I recollect, XFS and OpenZFS and RiserFS
[07:21] <lotuspsychje> same for you nikolam
[07:21] <lotuspsychje> leave this support channel for ubuntu issues
[07:23] <MastusAR_webchat> nikolam, this regards installation from the iso-image with a DVD drive and empty HDD
[07:25] <MastusAR_webchat> There seems to be (possibly?) a incomplete bug report for same issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1962020
[07:26] <lotuspsychje> MastusAR_webchat: that bug doesnt contain much info at all, not really useful
[07:27] <MastusAR_webchat> I agree
[07:27] <lotuspsychje> MastusAR_webchat: see if you can find your bug amongst these; https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bugs?orderby=importance&start=0
[07:29] <nikolam> Ubuntu has a problem giving root to anyone accessing GRUB console. anyone can get root access. No auto import of existing (USB) OpenZFS datasets. Proposed solutions are 1) Not using Ubuntu 2) Setting up GRUB password && posting bug report 3) using separate script for on-boot OpenZFS import/per pool 4) using /etc/fstab "nobootwait" option or post a bug report. 5) Every OS is stupid Os if user is not recognizing or solving issues
[07:29] <nikolam> I think that summarize solutions..
[07:31] <MastusAR_webchat> Well this was just to inform that there might be a issue with the installer timeoutting on a slow media. I'll check the bugtracker later, now off to the hardware store -->
[07:34] <ravage> somehow people always think this this IRC channel is a place to report bugs :(
[07:36] <nikolam> ravage, well, place to report issues. And to see if they are bugs or not. It's all what support is about :)
[07:37] <ravage> Sure. You still have to create a proper bug report or nothing will change.
[07:38] <nikolam> ravage, Yes! And it is good to always repeat that.
[07:47] <liangcheng> i installed  ubuntu 22.04 on yunmi-refrigerator, but it cant load the installition program
[07:47] <liangcheng> I actually installed Debian buster on this refrigerator one month ago
[07:49] <liangcheng> the processor is amd fx4130
[07:56] <liangcheng> ok, it looks like it cant mount the fs..
[09:54] <boy646e64> Hi all. Does anyone know why Firefox starts as an X11 client in 22.04? I am running a Wayland session :(
[09:56] <Guest5> Maybe because X11 is more likely to work reliably on more systems than Wayland?
[09:57] <Guest5> Pure speculation
[09:58] <boy646e64> True. However, I am unable to FORCE it to run in Wayland :/
[10:03] <ogra> boy646e64, you really have to ask mozila, they package the snap ...
[10:04] <ogra> boy646e64, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1729901 looks relevant ...
[10:04] <Guest5> After a lot of wasted time trying to get things to work on Wayland, it occurred to me I could just use X11, and I stopped thinking about Wayland.
[10:06] <boy646e64> Indeed. However, it's odd that Ubuntu advertises that 22.04 comes with Wayland by default, but delivers Firefox with X11.
[10:07] <boy646e64> Would've been worthwhile to explicitly state this..
[10:07] <Guest5> Ah. I use Kubuntu, and it uses x11 by default.
[10:07] <ogra> boy646e64, well, firefox is a snap now ... that means it is on a rolling release model ... so they can easily switch once the fix is in
[10:09] <boy646e64> I wonder what it means that `gnome-shell` also runs in X11 (under `xlsclients`). What's left? :D
[10:09] <ogra> boy646e64, hmm, are you sure you are actually using a wayland session ?
[10:10] <boy646e64> yes it's printed in `echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE`.
[10:11] <boy646e64> You can run `xlsclients` and see "gnome-shell" to see this (if you're runnin WL).
[10:38] <Berghaus> UBUNTU 22.04.. DEFAULT SHARE STATE IS ON.. HOW TO SET TO DEFAULT OFF LIKE 20.04?
[10:40] <Guest5> Where to find the setting for that?
[10:57] <manwhowouldbekin> Greetings all! Would this be a good place to discuss some features in Ubuntu 22.04?
[11:06] <Maik> manwhowouldbekin: this is the Ubuntu support channel, for discussions about Ubuntu you could use #ubuntu-discuss
[11:06] <manwhowouldbekin> Maik, Thanks!
[11:07] <Maik> no problem, you're welcome :)
[11:39] <dirk_> Hi, I installed ubuntu and ubuntu studio 22.04 the last days. The owncloud-client crashes at startup with a segmentation fault. Is there any good place to report that? In the jornal I've seen an ERROR4 at libqt5.
[11:58] <WeeBey> very simple question: should I bet super concerned about a dist-upgrade? Or generally it works without much issue?
[12:00] <Jeremy31> WeeBey: always have a backup
[12:01] <WeeBey> Jeremy31, Ok. Backup it is :-)
[12:28] <noarb> do chrome and firefox use the nss database for storing certificates? Is this the correct place to install a custom x509 cert to be used in both applications? Installing in the system /usr/share/ca-certificates doens't work. I can install it through the browser gui, but I'm trying to do it automatically for all users
[12:29] <rud0lf> noarb: did you use `sudo update-ca-certificates` ?
[12:29] <noarb> yes, that then works for system stuff like 'curl', but not for the browsers
[12:33] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:25] <Guest4bingood> Hi everyone
[13:25] <Guest4bingood> one hardware question please
[13:26] <tomreyn> ogra, ravage: I've updated / rephrased bug 1970066 (Guest1969)
[13:27] <moha> To remote over RDP to a linux server, should I necessarily install a desktop like gnome on it? No way to borrow desktop stuff somehow?
[13:28] <ravage> tomreyn, ok. thanks :)
[13:29] <tomreyn> ravage: i wasn't fishing for compliments as much as i meant to (should have said so) ask for a quick review as to whether it still seems to make sense.
[13:29] <tomreyn> :)
[13:29] <tomreyn> Guest4bingood: if it directly relates to an Ubuntu installation, please just ask. Otherwise, there's also #hardware and #linux
[13:29] <ravage> you explained the process with text and moved the attachments around. looks fine to me :)
[13:31] <tomreyn> moha: which Ubuntu version is this? Which graphics server (default?), graphics driver (or hardware), which graphical desktop / flavor (or default gnome-shell/mutter) is this?
[13:31] <Guest4bingood> I have ubuntu and windows dual boot in my hdd disk, so when i startup my laptop grub shows up and gives me option to boot either to ubuntu or windows, I am planning to install a new ssd in my laptop ( my laptop mother board allows that ) besides the hdd that has windows and ubuntu running , because i want to run autocad in the ssd disk, can I do
[13:31] <Guest4bingood> that ?? without losing access to my ubuntu and windows dual boot ? and how to go about doing that ?and is it gonna apear in grub as a third boot option ??
[13:31] <ogra> tomreyn, thanks !!
[13:31] <tomreyn> ravage: thanks for checking. :)
[13:32] <moha> tomreyn: it's 20.04 server, without any graphical desktop
[13:32] <ogra> tomreyn, (and yes, looks fine)
[13:32] <tomreyn> ogra: thanks to you, too!
[13:34] <Guest4bingood> can someone kindly look at my inquiry ?
[13:35] <tomreyn> moha: so RDP is a protocol for remotely controlling a graphical display (amongst other). sure, you'll need a graphics server for that, and RDP server, and, if you want to be able to do something after logging into it, some graphical session, too.
[13:36] <ravage> Guest4bingood, you can just add the SSD and mount it somewhere on your Ubuntu system. no need for another OS?
[13:36] <tomreyn> moha: if this is just a headless server, you should rather just use ssh + sftp though.
[13:37] <ravage> Guest4bingood, or if you need windows with autocad then format the SSD in windows
[13:40] <Guest4bingood> ravage: now i have alraedy dual boot odf windows 10 and ubuntu in the hdd I use mainly ubuntu for my daily paper work windows 10 that i have in hdd has my  autocad but it's slow thats why i wnat to install ssd and install in it another windows and then install autocad to benefit from the speed,my question is will i be able to have 3 OS as boot
[13:40] <Guest4bingood> options and how to do it do i need to use a flash drive to format the ssd and install some windiows version in it for autocad use ??
[13:41] <ravage> i dont understand why you need a 3rd OS. if you install autocad on the SSD it will be fast
[13:41] <ravage> but sure. in general os-prober should detect the 3rd OS
[13:42] <ravage> if not you can manually add it to your grub config
[13:45] <Guest4bingood> ravage :I want to install windows 7 in the ssd which will have my new autocad installation. can you please provide me with a how to guide as i alraedy have the ssd purchased, and i dont know what to do after inserting it in the motherboard, do i have to configure something in the bios ? or do i just boot and insert the windows 7 flash drive to
[13:45] <Guest4bingood> start instalation of the third OS.
[13:46] <ravage> windows installation support is really off topic here
[13:48] <Guest4bingood> ravage : Ok what about say ubuntu lts ?
[13:51] <Guest4bingood> ravage : I will use the hdd as storage disk and only install ubuntu LTS in the ssd. can that be done?
[13:52] <Guest4bingood> ravage : for autocad i will use virtualbox .
[13:53] <Guest4bingood> ravage :which setup you woulkd advise? thanks.
[13:55] <ravage> install the SSD. make sure the SSD is the first drive in the priority list in your BIOS and start the installation ob Ubuntu from USB
[13:55] <ravage> *of
[14:15] <Guest4bingood> ravage: thanks.
[14:40] <scoko> Downloaded the Ubuntu Desktop 22.04 iso, verified its integrity. Keep getting an error when installing "following file did not match its source copy"
[14:41] <scoko> Are the official images broken?
[14:43] <mevla> Hello.  A month ago I installed 20.04 - no problem.  Yesterday I installed 22.04 over the 20.04 partition and now the installation reports "Unable to install grub on /dev/sda fatal error.  The boot domain is not one I'm very familiar with.  What would be the way not only to install 22.04, but to regain access to the previous 18.04 already installed ?
[14:44] <mevla> Also, two new devices appeared in the BIOS screen, 'ubuntu' and 'UEFI OS'
[14:45] <mevla> Should I pursue going the UEFI way or, to go to MBR ?  I do not want to loose any data at all.
[14:50] <ioria> scoko, if you have already verified the iso, i suggest to burn it again (maybe on a different usb pen)
[14:50] <bonzibuddy> morning - i'm on 21.10, when i run 'sudo do-release-upgrade' it tells me theres no new version available.  my update manager settings are set to 'any new version'.  shouldnt i be getting the 22.04 option by this point?
[14:52] <bonzibuddy> this is on the desktop install, not server
[14:52] <ioria> bonzibuddy, do-release-upgrade -cd
[14:53] <Maik> bonzibuddy: Quote: "Upgrading from Ubuntu 21.10. Upgrades to 22.04 LTS are currently not enabled (due a bug with snapd and update-notifier) but will be in the next couple of days."
[14:53] <Maik> from the release notes ^
[14:53] <ioria> mevla, the first thing, is backup your data
[14:53] <bonzibuddy> ohh thank you, I missed that!
[14:53] <Maik> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/jammy-jellyfish-release-notes/24668
[14:54] <Maik> no problem, you're welcome :)
[14:54] <ioria> odd, because i did it
[14:54] <mevla> ioria: yes, some is backed up, not all.  I will backup the rest.  However I'm much more puzzled by how to solve this boot problem and at least regain access to 18.04, whihc is the main system up to now.
[14:56] <mevla> It's a bit strange that new devices appeared int he BIOS, as if there had been an interaction between the BIOS and the 22.04 install procedure (not seen when 20.04 was installed)
[14:56] <ioria> mevla, you probably have installed (reinstalled) ubuntu in efi mode, while the previous was in legacy mode
[14:56] <mevla> ioria: From what I gather so far, that seems to be the case.  Although I did not see and EFI/legacy choice in the 22.04 install.
[14:57] <scoko> ioria: it was a virtualbox install
[14:57] <scoko> ioria: i tried it 3 times, every time the same result
[14:57] <ioria> scoko, is your hw (disk, ram) ok ?
[14:57] <geosmile> can i run a cronjob in tmux session automatically ?
[14:57] <mevla> I have chosen the 3rd option in the 22.04 install choices, the one that allows to choose which partition exactly to install to.
[14:58] <scoko> ioria: yeah, everything is fine, i only have this issue with this image
[14:58] <ioria> mevla, would be useful to see a 'sudo parted -l' output
[14:58] <mevla> ioria: sure.  Should I paste it here ?
[14:59] <scoko> ioria: now, on my latest attempt, i skipped the problematic file (some firefox snap or something) and the installation finished, but i wonder if there is something inherently broken in this image
[14:59] <ioria> mevla, sudo parted -l | nc termbin.com 9999    and paste the url here
[14:59] <mevla> OK.
[15:00] <ioria> scoko, maybe
[15:00] <mevla> Cool.  I didn't know about that.  Here it is : https://termbin.com/sdbw
[15:00] <mevla>  
[15:03] <EriC^> mevla: 18.04 is on which disk?
[15:03] <ioria> mevla, where is ubuntu ?
[15:03] <mevla> ioria: /dev/sdd is a Seagate that has some problems at times.  I'd like to get rid of it.  This is where the install put the efi partition on second attempt ("install alongside existing os")
[15:04] <mevla> ioria: 18.04 is on /dev/sdb1  Ubuntu 22.04 should be on /dev/sdb2
[15:04] <ioria> EriC^, ^
[15:05] <EriC^> mevla: can you type 'sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt' then 'cat /mnt/etc/fstab | nc termbin.com 9999' ?
[15:05] <mevla> OK
[15:05] <geosmile>  tmux new -A -s mySession -- how do i modify this command to detach from the session automatically?
[15:06] <ioria> mevla, sdb has no boot flag
[15:06] <EriC^> mevla: also do 'cat /mnt/etc/issue' to confirm it's the 18.04
[15:06] <EriC^> yup ioria , good eye
[15:06] <mevla> ioria: so far the system booted from /dev/sda MBR
[15:06] <mevla> boot flag
[15:06] <ioria> but EriC^ is better than me in this stuff mevla
[15:07] <ioria> mevla, for sure you installed ubuntu in csm legacy mode
[15:07] <mevla> Eric^: OK, one moment ....
[15:09] <ioria> mevla, and if sdd is a problem (and you want to wipe it), i even suggest to disconnect it
[15:09] <mevla> So here it is :  https://termbin.com/s9oh
[15:09] <mevla>  
[15:10] <mevla> And /etc/issue is : Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS
[15:10] <mevla> ioria: You're right.
[15:11] <EriC^> mevla: i'd suggest you set the bootflag on /dev/sdb1, and then set the bios to csm legacy with sdb as the priority boot device
[15:13] <EriC^> mevla: try 'sudo cfdisk /dev/sdb' see if there's an option at the bottom to set boot flag
[15:13] <mevla> Eric^: OK.  There should be no problem in setting the bootflag.  Does the current one needs to be removed at all ?  However, not sure about the BIOS.  So how do I set the bootflag using parted ?
[15:14] <EriC^> mevla: no, the other bootflags are fine to keep, it's just in case the bios is picky and wont boot a disk if none have a flag
[15:14] <mevla> Eric^: There's a 'Bootable' option when the cursor is on /dev/sdb1
[15:14] <EriC^> mevla: that should be it, select it then 'write' the new partition table
[15:15] <mevla> Eric^: No loss of data or should I proceed with the ramianing backups first ?
[15:16] <EriC^> mevla: no it should be safe on all fronts
[15:17] <mevla> Eric^: Will this immediately give access to booting 18.04 ?
[15:17] <EriC^> mevla: i doubt, it's more of a sanity check in case the bios is picky, most arent but there are exceptions
[15:18] <EriC^> mevla: i think the bios might be set to uefi right now since you mentioned ubuntu and uefi os as options coming up, you might need to enter the bios setup, and enable 'csm legacy' or disable uefi, and set the /dev/sdb as the priority device for booting
[15:19] <mevla> Eric^: OK.  So what should be done next ? At this point I'm happy to regain access to 18.04 and install 20.04 or 22.04 later.
[15:19] <EriC^> mevla: sure, well, confirm the bootflag is now set, 'sudo parted /dev/sdb'
[15:19] <mevla> I'm taking notes
[15:19] <EriC^> * sudo parted /dev/sdb -l
[15:19] <mevla> Eric^: One moment.
[15:21] <mevla> Eric^: Before proceeding, what about the MBR that's needed to boot in legacy mode.  It is currently on /dev/sda
[15:22] <EriC^> mevla: why would it be on sda?
[15:23] <mevla> Eric^: Because all OSes so far, through the years, the installation were made by indicating /dev/sda as the place where to put 'grub'
[15:24] <mevla> Eric^: And this is what I indicatedx for the first 22.04 install try.  As usual.
[15:26] <EriC^> mevla: hmm, i'd recommend to use /dev/sdb for grub, that way you have a standalone disk that can boot
[15:27] <mevla> Eric^:  Makes sense.  Will it do anything regarding the data already on /dev/sdb by adding a MBR there ?
[15:27] <EriC^> nope, it'll only install grub at the start of the disk, before any partitions
[15:28] <alkisg> mevla: paste the output of sudo fdisk -l or of sudo parted -l, so that we see if the new installation is in UEFI mode or bios
[15:28] <EriC^> alkisg: https://termbin.com/sdbw
[15:28] <alkisg> If it is in bios mode it should be able to boot the old one as well
[15:30] <mevla> alkisg: Do you mean after setting the bootflag to /dev/sdb ?  I seem to be missing something.
[15:30] <alkisg> They are all in BIOS mode right? Then the grub of 22.04 should be able to boot 18.04
[15:30] <alkisg> Grub doesn't care about the boot flag, that is for Windows
[15:31] <mevla> alkisg : No Windows involved here
[15:31] <EriC^> alkisg: some bios care, not ubuntu/grub, seen it here a few times too
[15:31] <alkisg> Yes so the boot flag is irrelevant
[15:31] <mevla> But I'll set it nevertheless
[15:31] <EriC^> not really
[15:32] <alkisg> Does the grub of 22.04 show an entry for the 18.04 installation?
[15:33] <mevla> alskisg: I'll have to reverify.  It's the system I'm currently using, so I'd need to tear it down to reboot first.
[15:33] <alkisg> You can check or paste your /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[15:34] <mevla> I'm currently checking what wa sinstalled by the 22.04 proceudre before it reported the grun install error on /dev/sda
[15:34] <EriC^> mevla: try 'sudo update-grub' see if it mentions anything related to 18.04
[15:34] <mevla> 22.04 is on /dev/sdb2
[15:35] <mevla> Eric^: does it have to be done in a chroot ?
[15:35] <EriC^> mevla: no
[15:35] <mevla> It gave: "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: failed to get canonical path of `/cow'"
[15:36] <ioria> he is on livecd, i guess
[15:36] <mevla> Yes, that is the case.
[15:36] <ioria> so, yes you need that chroot
[15:37] <EriC^> i thought he was inside 22.04 right now?
[15:37] <mevla> Took 5 minutes to install emacs so I can irc and take notes saved to another partition
[15:37] <mevla> ioria: OK.  chroot into 22.04 I presume ?
[15:38] <EriC^> mevla: 1 sec
[15:38] <EriC^> alkisg thinks you can boot into 22.04 right now easily, is that the case?
[15:38] <alkisg> To sum up, you had a working 18.04, then installed 22.04, and grub failed, and now you can't boot in either of them?
[15:38] <ioria> mevla, yes
[15:38] <ioria> mevla, for i in /dev /dev/pts /proc /sys /run; do sudo mount -B $i /mnt$i; done
[15:38] <ioria> mevla, wait...
[15:39] <mevla> alkisg: That is the case.  And for now I'd only care to get back to 18.04 really.
[15:39] <ioria> mevla, sudo mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt
[15:39] <alkisg> OK then instead of using sdb2 where 22.04 is, use wherever your 18.04 is
[15:39] <mevla> du shows that 22.04 has installed 6.7GB of files before reporting the fatal error with grub.
[15:39] <alkisg> (in the commands that ioria says)
[15:40] <ioria> the install is good (i think) the problem is grub
[15:40] <mevla> alkisg: 18.04 is on /dev/sdb1
[15:40] <ioria> mevla, so,  sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt
[15:40] <EriC^> mevla: 18.04 is already mounted on /mnt
[15:40] <mevla> OK, so chroot ... into 22.04 to run update-grun ... one moment
[15:40] <EriC^> no...
[15:40] <mevla> Sorry for the typos
[15:41] <alkisg> mevla: no
[15:41] <mevla> OK, not done.
[15:41] <alkisg> First, mount 18.04 into /mnt, if it's not already mounted. Then use the commands that ioria said to mount dev, sys etc
[15:41] <mevla> OK
[15:41] <alkisg> I.e. sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt; for d in proc sys dev dev/pts run; do sudo mount --bind /$d /mnt/$d; done; sudo chroot /mnt dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc
[15:42] <mevla> I'm taking notes at the same time so I'll learn something
[15:44] <mevla> By the way, I do these commands already as root, no need for sudo
[15:45] <sreve_> I have newly installed 22.04 and I measure the speed of the nvme drive with about 1800 MB/sec (sudo hdparm -Tt /dev/sda). But it should have about the double speed ( 3.480 MB/sec). Does someone have an idea why?
[15:46] <mevla> I unmounted /dev/sdb2 (22.04) before proceeding.
[15:47] <mevla> Just to be certain, /dev/sdb1 (18.04) is mounted.  Do I need to cd into this mount point to run the for loop ?
[15:47] <alkisg> No
[15:48] <mevla> OK
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: did you run multiple tests?
[15:51] <mevla> All proc, sys ... bind-mounted, chroot now in 18.04, will run 'dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc'
[15:51] <sreve_> lotuspsychje: yes. And on a ssd to.
[15:51] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: wich ssd brand/type is this?
[15:51] <sreve_> the ssd has about 500 MB/s, that is ok.
[15:52] <mevla> It reports : "The following Linux command line was extracted from /etc/default/grub or the `kopt' parameter in GRUB Legacy's menu.lst. Please verify that it is correct, and modify   │
[15:52] <mevla>  │ it if necessary. The command line is allowed to be empty."
[15:52] <mevla> And the line is indeed empty.
[15:52] <sreve_> lotuspsychje:  Corsair Force MP510 960GB
[15:53] <lotuspsychje> did you check if you're on latest firmware sreve_
[15:53] <mevla> alkisg, Eric^: All OK so far ?
[15:53] <sreve_> lotuspsychje: not yet, I am currently try to find out how to check.
[15:53] <alkisg> mevla: did you see a dialog prompting you about selecting a disk to install grub on?
[15:54] <alkisg> You can ignore the empty command line, that part is OK
[15:54] <mevla> Not yet at least.  I did not go further than the above.
[15:54] <mevla> OK
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Firmware
[15:54] <alkisg> Did you run my command or ioria's?
[15:55] <mevla> alkisg: yours. which is the latest.  Now it shows two options : quiet spalsh.  Still OK ?
[15:55] <alkisg> Yes
[15:56] <mevla> It's finding other OSes ...
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-benchmark-disk-performance-on-linux
[15:57] <mevla> alkisg: It detected all other OSes, witht he last line being: "Adding boot menu entry for EFI firmware configuration done"
[15:57] <mevla>  
[15:57] <alkisg> mevla: you're booted in UEFI mode while your disk is in BIOS mode. That's why your 22.04 installation failed
[15:58] <alkisg> To verify, run: ls /sys/firmware/efi
[15:58] <alkisg> That directory should NOT exist
[15:58] <mevla> alkisg: where exactly ?
[15:59] <alkisg> The command that I wrote: ls /sys/firmware/efi
[15:59] <alkisg> It should say "does not exist", but in your case, it'll show the contents
[15:59] <mevla> alkisg: yes, but in the 18.04 chroot still ?
[15:59] <alkisg> You're not in the chroot
[15:59] <alkisg> The chroot dpkg-reconfigure command executed inside the chroot, then left it
[16:00] <mevla> I am at the moment, for running the dpkg-reconfigure command
[16:00] <mevla> OK
[16:00] <alkisg> The proper solution would be to reboot, press F12 in BIOS to see the boot menu, and when you see the USB stick, you'll see it twice; once as e.g. Kingston and once as UEFI Kinston; you should select the one that doesn't mention UEFI
[16:00] <alkisg> Then in another terminal tab
[16:00] <mevla> I'm doing those commands already as root.
[16:00] <alkisg> And from THERE run the chroot and dpkg-reconfigure commands
[16:01] <alkisg> In any case, make notes of that I wrote about pressing F12. But first, finish with the dpkg-reconfigure command, because it's possible that it'll work correctly even if you're booted in UEFI mode
[16:01] <mevla> Taking notes ....
[16:01] <alkisg> So it's possible that the problem is already resolved
[16:01] <alkisg> I.e. finish the command, reboot, see if it works. If it doesn't, reboot, press f12, and boot from the stick in BIOS mode, not UEFI mode.
[16:02] <ioria> mevla, let's see another 'sudo parted -l | nc termbin.com 9999'
[16:02] <mevla> Will do.  ioria: OK. one moment.
[16:04] <mevla> ioria: the bootflag is still on /dev/sda1.  I will set it also on /dev/sdb1.
[16:05] <mevla> alkisg: 'ls /sys/firmware/efi' shows that there's EFI content in that directory in 18.04
[16:06] <alkisg> mevla: this content is in RAM, it's not in any disk. It just means you're booted in UEFI mode, which is wrong for you
[16:06] <alkisg> It's the reason your 22.04 installation failed
[16:06] <mevla> I'll unmount /dev/sdb1 (18.04) before setting the bootflag on it.
[16:06] <alkisg> The solution is to select the correct entry in the f12 boot menu
[16:07] <mevla> alkisg: Although I didn't see any option in the 22.04 to go legacy or uefi.  I presume this is set by choosing the non-UEFI Kingston USB device for launching the live CD ?
[16:07] <sreve_> lotuspsychje: the firmware is now uptodate, but still only half of possible speed.,
[16:08] <alkisg> mevla: exactly, you can't change the boot mode later on, you can only select initially at the f12 menu
[16:08] <mevla> OK for the ls command.
[16:08] <mevla> Is that new for the 22.04 install or did I just happen to choose the right when installing 20.04 (which installed and ran coreectly) ?
[16:11] <ioria> mevla, OS Prober is disabled in GRUB on 22.04
[16:11] <alkisg> Just happened
[16:11] <ioria> but i don't think is related
[16:12] <ioria> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/12/grub-doesnt-detect-windows-linux-distros-fix
[16:14] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: did you read the linuxconfig link, see if you can compare with a dd speed test?
[16:16] <sreve_> lotuspsychje: yes, tzhe speed of my ssd is ok, the m2 has only 1.800 MB/s - that is not bad, but should be about 3.400. I am not sure if the Mainboard is the problem.
[16:17] <mevla> ioria: Thanks for the article.
[16:17] <ioria> ok
[16:18] <mevla> I wonder if the security aspect is important enough to get rid of the os-prober...
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: you can doublecheck that in the #hardware channel if you like, checking bios/hardware
[16:18] <mevla> It seems to say that os-prober is run at every boot ?  While in Fedora the output is cached ?
[16:20] <musti> hi
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> sreve_: what about your boot speed, systemd-analyze does that feel sane?
[16:23] <geosmile> is there a way to access apple messages/send/receive from an ubuntu desktop?
[16:26] <ravage> geosmile, not without a mac as a bridge. Matrix has a bridge for it: https://github.com/matrix-hacks/matrix-puppet-imessage
[16:27] <ravage> or maybe better https://github.com/mautrix/imessage
[16:27] <kenperkins> How do I know which memory address is my ram chips in i2cdetect?
[16:28] <mevla> Some process is holding on the mount of /dev/sdb1 which prevent unmounting it. I did a lsof | grep sdb1 and shows something by the name of [[jbd2/sdb1-8].  C
[16:29] <mevla> I think I'll do a 'kill -9' on that process.  A regular 'kill' didn't work.
[16:30] <mevla> jdb2 is a journaling block device as I see
[16:31] <mevla> First time I'm seeing such a jdb2 process preventing the unmounting of a partition.
[16:32] <mevla> Can I set the bootflag on /dev/sdb1 even though it's still mounted ?
[16:35] <ravage> yes
[16:40] <mevla> ioria, alkisg: cfdisk does not set the boot flag on /dev/sdb1 if it's still mounted or so it seems.  'parted -l' run thereafter does not show the bootflag as it shows it for /dev/sda1
[16:42] <mevla>  ioria, alkisg: Sorry, my bad, forgot to write the changes in cfdisk.
[16:45] <mevla> OK.  Will now reboot, put the sdb drive as first bootable device in the BIOS.  If I come back soon, it means that everything went fine.  If not, I'll take a break.  In any case, much thanks !  Much appreciated !  Cheers.
[16:58] <jhutchins> Another one bites the dust.
[16:59] <thingfish> rats, mevla didn't come back right away.
[16:59] <thingfish> I was rooting for the little guy.
[17:04] <BadProgrammer> Which desktop environment should I pick, I am thinking base Ubuntu with Gnome or Kubuntu with KDE Plasma
[17:05] <leftyfb> BadProgrammer: try them both and see which one you like
[17:05] <BadProgrammer> thx
[17:25] <sreve_> lotuspsychje: yes, boot speed, file access, .... feels all ok. Its only that the specs tells me, the m2 disk could have double speed than I measure.
[17:28] <Jeremy31> Sure the motherboard supports full speed nvme?
[17:28] <lgp171188> I upgraded my RPi4 running Ubuntu server 21.10 to 22.04 and after the upgrade, the network failed to come up.
[17:29] <lgp171188> I investigated why and found that netplan was complaining about whitespace in the driver section of the cloud-init netplan config.
[17:30] <leftyfb> !bug | lgp171188
[17:30] <lgp171188> What is interesting is that the line `driver: bcmgenet smsc95xx lan78xx` was added by the Ubuntu installer of a previous version.
[17:30] <lgp171188> I removed the 2nd and 3rd driver name patterns and voila it started working. Is this expected or is this a bug?
[17:31] <lgp171188> I use the Pi with just the ethernet cable connected and I am not sure of the implications of removing the last 2 driver names.
[17:31] <lgp171188> Any ideas?
[17:32] <lgp171188> leftyfb, thanks! I wanted to confirm whether it is a bug or not before filing a new bug. :)
[17:32] <JackKnife> Tried installing Ubuntu for the first time. Mounted the iso using Rufus, but the drive isn't showing up in the BIOS. It's shown up before with Win7, but not sure what's up now...
[17:33] <JackKnife> Anyone kind enough to help this n00b out?
[17:34] <enigma9o7[m]> If your BIOS doesn't recognize it, perhaps its written in a way your computer doesn't like.  Rufus gives you the option at the end for "dd" mode, try rewriting it with that.
[17:34] <lotuspsychje> !usb | JackKnife
[17:34] <enigma9o7[m]> There's also the very minor chance your iso is corrupt, you can verify the hash to be sure....
[17:36] <JackKnife> Retrying with DD mode now
[17:37] <madsquirrel> You can also to try out Ventoy, ubuntu isos are tested as well as Debian
[17:40] <JoeBk> ventoy is the way to go.
[17:41] <Mibix> does anyone else run cinnamon on ubuntu for a DE
[17:43] <ghostboarder> is PopOS considered an "unofficial derivative"?
[17:43] <kostkon_> !popos
[17:43] <Jeremy31> ghostboarder: yes
[17:43] <JoeBk> I didn't like PopOS
[17:43] <ghostboarder> k fair enough
[17:44] <ghostboarder> well, just as background, the issue i have is apparently in all ubuntu derivatives
[17:44] <ghostboarder> nvidia gpu not resuming properly from s3
[17:45] <ghostboarder> funny though, different hardware with the same updates and nvidia driver rev, have different outcomes
[17:45] <ghostboarder> my gaming box is fine, this pc is not
[17:45] <mevla> Hello.  Is ioria still here ?
[17:47] <mevla> ioria: The system is much better now as it can boot into 22.04.  But the grub menu, although it shows other OSes, doesn't show at all 18.04, the system I care about.
[17:48] <mevla> Shouldn't be much to add 18.04 to the boot menu but, /boot/grub/ in 22.04 is totally different, having no text files to which a previous entry could be added.
[17:50] <jhutchins> mevla: You shouldn't have to add it manually.
[17:50] <mevla> So the question would be, how to add a previous ubuntu release (18.04) that works very well, from another partition, to this boot menu ?
[17:50] <ioria> mevla, i'am a bit busy now, sy; you can run   sudo update-grub | nc termbin.com 9999 and post the url; or you can try to add GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false   in /etc/default/grub
[17:51] <madsquirrel> by editing /etc/grub.d/40_custom
[17:51] <madsquirrel> after all update-grub
[17:51] <madsquirrel> For test your can perform: sudo os-prober
[17:51] <madsquirrel> Will it find 18.04?
[17:51] <ioria> mevla, or use /boot/grub.d/40_custom
[17:51] <mevla> One moment ...
[17:52] <mevla> os-prober did find it
[17:53] <ioria> mevla, try to edit /etc/default/grub and after run sudo update-grub
[17:53] <mevla> Can I run the update-grub from 22.04 ?
[17:53] <ioria> sure
[17:53] <madsquirrel> Maybe it's hidden within >submenu
[17:53] <mevla> OK.  One moment.
[17:54] <madsquirrel> echo "GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=y" >> /etc/defautl/grub
[17:54] <madsquirrel> sudo update-grub
[17:54] <madsquirrel> sudo echo will not work :D
[17:54] <madsquirrel> first sudo su -
[17:54] <madsquirrel> forgotten some things lol
[17:54] <mevla> I run the commands as root, no problem
[17:57] <jhutchins> mevla: Update grub is supposed to run the os_prober script/module which looks for valid OS installations like Windows and other Linux installs.
[17:57] <mevla> update-grub runs os-prober ... and as before it has found 18.04.  Is that all that's needed ?
[17:57] <jhutchins> mevla: Should be, as long as it wrote it to the grub configuration.
[17:57] <mevla> I mean as before when I just ran os-prober by itself
[17:58] <jhutchins> mevla: I don't know of a way to test it without running it.
[17:58] <mevla> jhutchins: Is there a way to verify before rebooting ?
[17:58] <mevla> OK
[17:58] <jhutchins> mevla: Update grub is supposed to run the os_prober script/module which looks for other mevla just running os_prober doesn't update the config.
[17:58] <jhutchins> mevla: Update grub is supposed to run the os_prober script/module which looks for other mevla just running os_prober doesn't update the config.
[17:59] <madsquirrel> os_prober does not add systems to grub.cfg
[17:59] <jhutchins> mevla: I don't know of a way to test it without running it
[17:59] <madsquirrel> it only shows additional systems
[17:59] <mevla> I know, but I meant that it also found 18.04 when ran under update-grub, which could mean that there were no options preventing it.
[17:59] <jhutchins> I mean test it without rebooting.
[18:00] <mevla> I'm taking notes ... not that much familiar with the Linux booting aspects
[18:00] <madsquirrel> Ok, the main question is: What is your parition sytle: bios/mbr or gpt?
[18:00] <Jeremy31> os-prober is disabled by default in grub for 22.04
[18:01] <croran_44[m]> I'm using an AMD GPU for the first time in like 10 years. What do I need to install to get a control panel software for the GPU?
[18:01] <mevla> I know, ioria shared an article about that not long ago.  Interesting.
[18:02] <mevla> madsquirrel: It is mbr style.  About an hour ago or so, ioria, Eric^ and somebody else whose name I forgot gave very helpful advice to restore the system.
[18:04] <madsquirrel> Are that systems on separates disks or on the same disk?
[18:04] <mevla> A mix of both
[18:07] <mevla> OK.  So it seems all set.  I'll give it a try.
[18:08] <mevla> This was certainly a 'crash' course in learning about Linux boot. :)
[18:12] <mevla> Hello.  Nope, 18.04 is still nto shown in the grub menu at boot time.
[18:12] <mevla> 'not'
[18:13] <thingfish> is there an Advanced Options or something similar that it might be hiding behind?
[18:14] <thingfish> seems like in the past when I've dual booted, I've had to access the install that way.
[18:14] <thingfish> but I'm new to Ubuntu, so...
[18:14] <mevla> No that I've seen but, in the two thimes that I've tried, not seeing 18.04, I scrolled down to choose 22.04.  Could it be that 18.04 is the main boot without any number to it ?
[18:14] <mevla> Worth a try ...
[18:14] <thingfish> dunno, try it
[18:15] <mevla> Wouldn't it be that most Linux systems adopt the same kind of boot process anyways, be it Ubuntu or Fedora or Mint, etc,, ?
[18:15] <thingfish> more or less.
[18:15] <mevla> OK, I'
[18:15] <mevla> OK, I'll reboot it and see.
[18:16] <thingfish> good luck
[18:18] <JackKnife> okay so I got my mobo to recognize the drive from the DD option in Rufus, but now when I hit enter on "try/install Ubuntu", it's just a blank screen with a blinking indicator for text...
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> JackKnife: secureboot enabled?
[18:24] <JackKnife> I don't even think the mobo has that option.. It's an old one
[18:24] <JackKnife> abit nv8 - I genuinely don't know much about it
[18:25] <JackKnife> Tried digging around in the BIOS and no option screams "secureboot" to me, unless I'm just blind..
[18:26] <mevla> Hello.  The main Ubuntu boot menu entry is 18.04.  I verified it using the advanced options for that entry which are showing the 4.15.0-142 low latency kernel, which is the one used by 18.04.  problem is : Kernel panic - not syncing VFS : unable to mount root fs on unkown-block (0,0)
[18:26] <mevla> I mounted the 18.04 partition and all the kernel files are in /boot all right
[18:28] <croran_44[m]> no one knows about AMD on Ubuntu?
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> JackKnife: then your stick might be wrong made
[18:29] <JackKnife> Oh! My impatient ass just had to wait... I just noticed it came up with the Ubuntu try/install + language options. Thanks all!
[18:30] <thingfish> yeah I was going to say, just give it a bit because even on a fast new machine, it takes a bit.
[18:30] <mevla> The original 18.04 grub.cfg has the right options for finding the kernel file.  Is that grub.cfg used at all with the new 22.04 ?
[18:31] <mevla> How can I fix/tell 22.04 boot menu that 18.04 is indeed there as it should be ?
[18:33] <madsquirrel> search for "grub2 chainload into another grub.cfg"
[18:33] <mevla> Why is the 22.04 boot menu gives a kernel panic when trying to boot 18.04 ?  It must have mistaken something.
[18:33] <madsquirrel> examples from gentoo wiki, arch wiki
[18:33] <gregl> croran_44[m], https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AMDGPU-Driver this may point you in the right direction.. If you post more info on the card perhaps someone will chime in
[18:34] <mevla> OK
[18:34] <madsquirrel> 22.04 will run 18.04 grub which run own grub.cfg file
[18:34] <madsquirrel> consider to make Grub2 from 22.04 your main Grub2 in the MBR
[18:35] <mevla> I see the principle.  It;s just about making it.
[18:35] <madsquirrel> other words - let newer Grub2 will be main bootloader
[18:36] <mevla> Isn't that the case now that the system boots 22.04 ?
[18:36] <kenperkins> is there a good channel for asking questions re: sensors and i2cdetect and which addresses my ram is?
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> kenperkins: #linux ?
[18:36] <madsquirrel> mevla, as you wrote, the first boot menu entry was 18.04
[18:37] <madsquirrel> so it's strange but it looks like your main grub is 18.04 :D
[18:37] <madsquirrel> For diagnostic purpose you can run so called "bootinfoscript"
[18:37] <mevla> madsquirrel: yes, but earlier today nothing was booting at all, only from the 22,04 livecd.  And it's from the livecd that some restoration was made.
[18:37] <madsquirrel> I don't know if it's still maintained, etc.
[18:38] <madsquirrel> Sometimes the best way is to rearrange partitions, etc.
[18:38] <madsquirrel> if your hardware is capable consider to run with uefi
[18:38] <mevla> Well, 18.04 gives a kernel panic.  Which would be impossible if grub.cfg from 18.04 was used.  As far as I see it.
[18:39] <mevla> Yes, the BIOS even has two new devices since trying to install 22.04 yesterday> ubuntu and UEFI OS.
[18:40] <madsquirrel> Some time ago I've switched at all to systemd-boot
[18:40] <madsquirrel> no /etc/default and so on, tons of .sh scripts, etc.
[18:40] <madsquirrel> variables, parameters
[18:40] <mevla> I don't mind make changes ... as long as it is known in advance and the subject well understood
[18:42] <mevla> I learned today that there are two USB devices shown in the BIOS for installing Ubuntu.  One UEFI, the other not.  Through all the years now I always followed the same procedure to install OS, but yesterday I guess I've chosen the UEFI version of the Kingston USB drive and the installation proceeded in uEFI mode.
[18:43] <mevla> ... which resulted in not being able to anything ... until the helkp I got here this morning.
[18:43] <mrkubax10> UEFI way is the correct one on modern devices these days
[18:44] <mevla> Now if I could just get 18.04 back that would be very nice.  And then, I can study the issue and make aprtition changes.
[18:44] <mevla> 'partition'
[18:45] <mevla> Chaining grubs seems a bit complicated.
[18:46] <bob518> Any good recommendations for macro software? I want to run keyboard strokes on the terminal and be able to record/execute mouse moves, clicks and keyboard typing.
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> !discuss | bob518
[18:47] <dc5> How to know that xorg is running on ubuntu server? I followed a  tutorial to set up freerdp
[18:48] <dc5> It shows  failed to open display:
[18:48] <croran_44[m]> gregl: ty
[18:48] <alkisg> mevla: are you booted from a live cd now?
[18:49] <dc5> echo $DISPLAY just empty
[18:49] <mevla> alkisg: Hi.  No, 22.04 boots fine.  But 18.04 gives a kernel panic.  18.04 is the first entry in the boot menu. the one w/o any numbers.
[18:49] <mrkubax10> dc5: how do you start xorg?
[18:49] <bob518> lotuspsychje thanks
[18:49] <alkisg> mevla: so you're on 22.04 now, and to get there, you saw the 18.04 menu, and went below and selected 22.04?
[18:50] <mrkubax10> dc5: just installing it doesn't start it automatically
[18:50] <dc5> mrkubax10: I don't even know how to start it.
[18:51] <mevla> alkisg: Yes.  At first I expected to see 18.04 in the list.  Not seeing it, I've chosen 22.04.  Truns out 18.04 is the first entry but gives a kernel panic - not syncing
[18:51] <mrkubax10> dc5: try startx
[18:51] <dc5> I 'm on a fresh ubuntu 20.04 ,installed xfce xfce-goodies
[18:51] <alkisg> mevla, assuming sdb1 is your 18.04, run: sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt; ( cat /mnt/boot/grub/grub.cfg; cat /mnt/etc/fstab; sudo lsblk --fs) | nc termbin.com 9999
[18:51] <mrkubax10> dc5: also what do you want to do?
[18:51] <alkisg> mevla: then send us the link
[18:52] <dc5> mrkubax10: Setup a freerdp server
[18:53] <dc5> startx shows Fatal server error:
[18:53] <dc5> (EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0
[18:53] <mevla> OK.  I already mounted it and checked if the grub.cfg was right.  It is.  The advanced boot menu under the first Ubuntu boot menu entry uses the 4.15.0-144 lowlatency kernel which is right there in /boot on sdb1, and it's grub.cfg is OK.  Let me do the ncats now.
[18:54] <dc5> The whole error output https://pastebin.com/CRUxEc80
[18:54] <mrkubax10> dc5: which tutorial did you follow?
[18:55] <alkisg> dc5: the server doesn't need to be running xorg in order to host xfreerdp sessions. Those sessions are running on virtual screens, not on the real one
[18:56] <dc5> mrkubax10: These two https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-vnc-on-ubuntu-20-04  and  https://miloserdov.org/?p=4508
[18:57] <kmyjnv> x11vnc ftw
[18:58] <kmyjnv> client remmina with the vnc plugin
[18:59] <alkisg> x11vnc is great for screen sharing, xrdp for new sessions; each one has its merits
[18:59] <dc5> installed  xfce4 xfce4-goodies  freerdp2-shadow-x11 winpr-utils  then created a sam file
[18:59] <dc5> freerdp-shadow-cli /sam-file:mysam /sec:nla
[19:00] <mevla> alkisg: Here it is : https://termbin.com/9hn40
[19:00] <alkisg> Reading...
[19:01] <mevla> alkisg: d6abcd2a-921e-46cb-98dd-74c2b879c28b (first menuentry) is sdb1
[19:01] <EriC^> mevla: what's the exact error you get before it kernel panics
[19:01] <kmyjnv> alkisg: iirc xrdp was waay too slow
[19:02] <mevla> Eric^: I'll have to reboot to see it.
[19:02] <dc5> alkisg: So what should I do? freerdp-shadow-cli tells me  failed to open display:
[19:02] <bob518> Are these channels active? #ubuntu-discuss and #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:02] <alkisg> kmyjnv: if you use it for screen sharing it's slow because then you ALSO use vnc, if it's for new sessions it's fast
[19:03] <alkisg> dc5: are you interested in screen sharing or in new sessions?
[19:03] <alkisg> dc5: for new sessions, it's just `apt install xrdp`, nothing more  at all
[19:03] <mevla> There are A LOT of 22.04 entry in that grub.cfg file
[19:03] <alkisg> You don't need xorg running, although it will be installed as a dependency
[19:03] <alkisg> dc5: then on the client, you run mstsc (windows) or xfreerdp2 (linux)
[19:05] <alkisg> mevla: the disk ordering isn't guaranteed, you shouldn't be using root=/dev/sdb1 but root=d6abcd2a-921e-46cb-98dd-74c2b879c28b instead
[19:05] <mevla> alkisg: OK, I can edit that.
[19:05] <alkisg> mevla: edit your grub.cfg directly, and replace /dev/sdb1 with d6abcd2a-921e-46cb-98dd-74c2b879c28b, then reboot; if it still fails, send a photo
[19:06] <mevla> Can I use termbin to send a photo if needed ?
[19:06] <Soulfire> So I have a ubuntu 20.04 droplet running wordpress, and im trying to disable the root user account from logging in through ssh, but when i configure ssh, it also restricts me from logging in with another account i have with admin privileges whenever I set permitRootLogin to no in sshd_config. I believe the other account is in the admin group but idk if that has anything to do with it.
[19:06] <alkisg> mevla:  No, I think here they use imgur
[19:06] <alkisg> !photo
[19:06] <dc5> alkisg: You mean freerdp-shadow-cli is for screen sharing? If I want to use mstsc, xrdp is the answer?
[19:07] <alkisg> dc5: I don't know what freerdp-shadow-cli is for, and I don't know why that tutorial was telling you to generate certificates. apt install xrdp and mstsc on the client is enough to get remote desktop
[19:08] <alkisg> (if that tutorial hasn't misconfigured it in the meantime :D)
[19:09] <alkisg> dc5: from its man page: freerdp-shadow-cli can be used to share a running X display like with VNC but by using the RDP instead. It is also possibly to share only parts (rect) of the display.
[19:09] <alkisg> So yeah, "share" is the keyword there
[19:09] <alkisg> It does sound silly to use both vnc and rdp for screen sharing, and it's going to be slow... but I guess some people have need for it
[19:15] <dc5> alkisg: Really appreciate your help, but I still want to know how to configure xorg, because I have no idea where to start, I don't even know where to start searching for questions
[19:16] <alkisg> dc5: I haven't read all the chat, but the easiest way to configure xorg is to install ubuntu desktop, not ubuntu server, IF you have installed the server flavor, that is...
[19:18] <dc5> Many answers say set $DISPLAY, I've tried many but it doesn't work, shouldn't it have an initial value if it's running?
[19:20] <enigma9o7[m]> I started with ubuntu server and installed desktop on top, I didnt have to do any config of xorg... pretty sure its configured the same as if I installed desktop ubuntu.    Doing it this way I was able to setup desktop and such with only ~850 packages....
[19:20]  * enigma9o7[m] uploaded an image: (418KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/MuBtwdHMHSyptLWxqXjoCmIp/Screenshot%20from%202022-04-24%2012-20-13.png >
[19:20] <alkisg> dc5: have you started with the server or the desktop iso?
[19:21] <enigma9o7[m]> although I did remove the `ubuntu-server` and `snapd` packages.
[19:22] <dc5> alkisg: It's on a vps, it doesn't provide ubuntu desktop
[19:22] <alkisg> dc5: did you apt install ubuntu-desktop?
[19:22] <dc5> enigma9o7: I tired xubuntu-desktop but still
[19:23] <alkisg> dc5: do they give you a decent control panel, or are you trying to run xorg over ssh?
[19:26] <dc5> alkisg: Basically I don't know anything about xorg, I just know it exists...
[19:26] <alkisg> dc5: what methods do you have to access the server, just ssh?
[19:27] <dc5> Only ssh, need any setting in the control panel?
[19:28] <alkisg> Then you're making it hard on yourself trying to get xrdp access to the existing xorg session
[19:28] <alkisg> Just reinitialize the vps, apt install xrdp xubuntu-desktop, and use mstsc to connect remotely, if the port is open
[19:31] <mevla> Hello.  Booting in 18.04 still panics.
[19:32] <alkisg> mevla, photo?
[19:33] <ioria> mevla, kernel should not be a grub issue; are you sure your 18.04 kernel is correctly installed ?
[19:33] <mevla> alkisg: I took a photo but it reminded me that I have ot install software to download it from the camera.  So I took notes and I'm tyoing them now.
[19:33] <mevla> Is the call trace necessary ?
[19:34] <alkisg> mevla: no, just the messages. But you should be able to share it directly from your phone without downloading it to your computer.
[19:35] <mevla> ioria: I'm using 18.04 since I don't remeber when.  It is what I call a stable system as far as muci/making is concerned as it works just fine, and did for all those years until yesterday when I nstalled 22.04.
[19:35] <mevla> alkisg: it is actually a camera.  A Nikon.
[19:35] <mevla> I do not have a smart phone
[19:36] <alkisg> Ah :D
[19:36] <ioria> mevla, kernel panic is usually a result of a failed upgrade or an out of space issue; i suggest you boot the livecd , mount the 18.04 partion, chroot and verify
[19:36] <mevla> But there was not that much display as the fonts were extremely large and there were no scrolling back capabilities.
[19:36] <mevla> ioria: to verify what specifically ?
[19:36] <alkisg> Nevertheless we should be able to see at which point and maybe why it panics
[19:36] <mevla> I'm now in 22.04, so I can just mount it
[19:37] <ioria> mevla, the the kernel is correctly installed and the system is configured
[19:37] <ioria> *that
[19:37] <alkisg> A quick way also is to get a video, but maybe not so quick in your case (without a phone :D)
[19:37] <mevla> By the way, after login, there was a 'system program problem detected' dialog box and I've chosen to report it.  I look at the main log file and found nothing as far as I can see.
[19:38] <mevla> alkisg: If we remove the call trace there are 4 lines, with lines 1 and 4 basically the same.
[19:38] <alkisg> Shoot
[19:39] <alkisg> (also another way is to run 18.04 using kvm while you're still inside 22.04; but you'll need to add init=/bin/bash to avoid mounting all the other file systems which are already mounted)
[19:40] <madsquirrel> Theres another way
[19:40] <madsquirrel> SystemRescueCD can run system on a disk
[19:41] <madsquirrel> It livecd, crate an USB
[19:41] <mevla> alkisg: It's actualkly for libvirt that I went from 20.04 to 22.04, to ge tht elatest.
[19:41] <mevla> OK here goes
[19:42] <mevla> Kernel panic - not syncing ...
[19:42] <mevla> CPU : 1PID : 1 COMM: swapper/0 Not tainted 4.15.0-144-lowlatency # 148 Ubuntu
[19:42] <mevla> Hardware name: system manufacturer System Product name/P8Z77-V LK BIOS 1001 02/02/2013
[19:42] <mevla> Kernel offset 0c1c00000 from (hex number) (relocation range : ... hex numbers)
[19:42] <mevla> ---[ Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unkown-bloc (0,0)
[19:42] <mevla> Yes, 2013
[19:42] <mevla> call trace omitted
[19:43] <leftyfb> mevla: future reference, please use pastebin for more than 1 or 2 lines
[19:44] <mevla> alkigs: the thing with kvm and the existing 18.04 is that it won't run hardware-based Bitwig as it uses a dedicated audio card
[19:44] <alkisg> Since you're an advanced user, you could try kvm... i.e. edit sdb1/boot/grub/grub.cfg, and add `break=mount init=/bin/bash` in the kernel cmdline, then run `sudo kvm -m 1024 /dev/sdb`
[19:44] <mevla> leftyfb: OK !  An account is needed ?
[19:44] <leftyfb> mevla: not for all of them
[19:44] <alkisg> mevla: we only want to boot it to init, not all of it
[19:44] <alkisg> After it does mount the rootfs, you can just reboot normally
[19:46] <mevla> alkisg: I'm not so sure about this would do.  Booting it to init, OK.  And if it does mount the rootfs, how will that affect the boot process thats actually in place on the machine ?
[19:48] <JackKnife> Is there a timeout feature? I went away for a bit and now I don't have any signal to my monitor... Hmm
[19:49] <jStefan> JackKnife, screen should go to standby after 5 minutes, by default.
[19:49] <alkisg> mevla: I believe it won't boot to rootfs, and it will be an easier way for us to troubleshoot why, rather than to have you reboot, test, then come back, report, then reboot again etc
[19:49] <jStefan> ...on the gnome desktop
[19:50] <mevla> alkisg: Although I use libvirt, virsh and kvm, I've never used 'kvm' as a command line tool.  I'm searching with synaptic to find it, is it the 'kvmtool' package ?
[19:51] <dc5> alkisg: I don't want to give up, I've done that tutorial from DO and reached VNC over ssh . Seems to have a bit of a clue, if I want to share the screen first x has to be running and also have a session? A session will have a display ?
[19:52] <HB[m]> https://bpa.st/4TXQ <- this is my netplan config for Ubuntu 20.04. I have setup pihole, at 10.1.10.64 and when I go to test sites, I still see ads, like pi hole isn't working. But for another machine, pi hole is working. I am wondering if I put the DNS config in the right place? Can anyone verify?
[19:53] <JackKnife> Can I take it off standby? What do I do? Move my mouse, smash my spacebar?
[19:53] <leftyfb> HB[m]: why do you have ipv6 dhcp enabled?
[19:54] <Hash> leftyfb: coming from comcast router i tis
[19:54] <Hash> it is*
[19:54] <jStefan> JackKnife, usually a click or key would do it. I prefer a mundane key like arrow keys, as to not accidently send a command to an open app.
[19:54] <mevla> alkisg: So far I didn't see any 'kvm' utility that could be used for 'kvm -m 1024 /dev/sdb'
[19:54] <Hash> But for the ipv4, I want specific setup. Perhaps it's talking over ipv6 and I haven't setup ipv6 dns as pihole address
[19:55] <JackKnife> ty I'll try that
[19:55] <Hash> leftyfb: what are your thoughts?
[19:55] <leftyfb> Disbable ipv6 dhcp
[19:55] <Hash> Can you explain why?
[19:55] <Hash> I don't know why and would like to know if I screwed up config
[19:55] <jStefan> HB[m], are your client computers also Ubuntu?
[19:56] <dc5> HB: Do you clear you DNS cache?
[19:56] <Hash> Mostly yes. One client is Windows, and I put the both v4/v6 ip of pi hole there
[19:56] <Hash> So windows vm blocks ads
[19:56] <Hash> I can't figure out how to properly put this into netplan in ubuntu linux
[19:56] <leftyfb> Hash: are you HB[m] ?
[19:56] <Hash> i got the v4 ip in netplan. Probably need v6
[19:56] <Hash> leftyfb: yes, sorry
[19:56] <Hash> that's my matrix in a diff window
[19:57] <leftyfb> Hash: ok, why are you connected to a router and comcast separately?
[19:57] <Hash> I am not.
[19:57] <Hash> Comcast router -> my pc
[19:57] <Hash> router is all in one cablemodem/router/wifi unit they give you
[19:58] <alkisg> mevla: it's in qemu-system-x86
[19:58] <leftyfb> Hash: ok, why are you setting a static ipv6 and dynamic ipv6 on the same machine going to the same place?
[19:58] <Hash> oh I am?
[19:58] <leftyfb> Hash: pick 1, not both
[19:58] <jStefan> if you have two DHCP servers running on the same network, they could be competing against each other, you can't guarantee which one the client computer uses.
[19:58] <Hash> I didn't realize I was doing ipv6 manual AND dhcp
[19:58] <alkisg> dc5: there's no point in sharing your remote server screen because noone is there to see it. Just use xrdp for new sessions, not vnc for session sharing
[19:58] <leftyfb> you're not
[19:58] <Hash> I'm lookinat my config.
[19:59] <leftyfb> Hash: according to your config, you have a static ipv6 and dynamic ipv6
[19:59] <leftyfb> Hash: disable ipv6
[19:59] <Hash> I just don't see the static ipv6 in there
[19:59] <Hash> Can you point which line please
[19:59] <Hash> Sorry I feel dumb atm
[19:59] <leftyfb> Hash: sorry, according to your config, you have a static ipv4 and dynamic ipv6
[19:59] <Hash> correct.
[19:59] <jStefan> eg: if your client computer's packets can reach BOTH the pihole and your router, and both those have DHCP, it's a matter of which one answers first.
[20:00] <alkisg> mevla: if you can use virt-manager to boot /dev/sdb, go ahead and use that instead; I know how to do it with kvm and virtualbox, but I haven't used virt-manager so I can't help you with that
[20:00] <mevla> alkisg: OK, installed
[20:00] <Hash> That's what I wanted initially. IPv4 static, and v6 can come in from router, DHCP, but I want v6 DNS config I think.
[20:00] <leftyfb> disable ipv6. You do not need it. And you shouldn't be pulling ip's twice o the same network
[20:00] <mevla> alkisg: I use virsh all the time.
[20:00] <Hash> Disable ipv6 entirely?
[20:00] <leftyfb> Hash: you do not need ipv6 on your client to get to ipv6 on the internet
[20:00] <Hash> That last sentence is confusing mto me.
[20:01] <mevla> alkisg: I'll now do the grub.cfg addition then try kvm
[20:01] <leftyfb> Hash: dhcp6: false     <~~~~ set that
[20:01] <alkisg> mevla: use whatever you know; just make sure you have init=/bin/bash to avoid having the filesystems mounted twice. And make sure you don't have /dev/sdb1 mounted on the host
[20:01] <Hash> I don't need ipv6 on client, in order to get ipv6 on internet? If I don't have ipv6, how can I talk to ipv6 sites?
[20:01] <mevla> OK
[20:01] <leftyfb> Hash: your router does that for you
[20:01] <jStefan> Hash, because there is a routing layer, and your router handles the IPV6 to IPV4 (local) routing
[20:01] <morganu> 20.04 I cannot find what tab is playing youtube now. I saw it and now I cannot find it. Looked and looked...
[20:02] <leftyfb> well, technically your ISP does it, but your router plays a part as well
[20:02] <Hash> Interesting.
[20:02] <Hash> I'm still trying to figure out ipv6
[20:02] <Hash> I still don't fully understand why I should turn off ipv6 dhcp. Router handles it using RA afaik, right?
[20:02] <Hash> Router Announcement
[20:03] <leftyfb> yes
[20:03] <Hash> So you're saying router will auto assign me ipv6 even if I don't use dhcp v6?
[20:03] <jStefan> depending the routing scheme used, most i've seen is port based. in that scenario your router saves which local ip and port made the request and saves it in a table, then converts it to your public ip, and maybe different port. when it gets it response it search the table to convert it back
[20:03] <leftyfb> Hash: you do not need an ipv6 ip on your client to communicate with ipv6 sites on the internet
[20:04] <Hash> Wow. I didn't know this.
[20:04] <morganu> found it..
[20:04] <leftyfb> Hash: the same way you do not need a routable ipv6 ip on your client to talk to other routeable ipv4's on the internet
[20:04] <Hash> So I wanted a v6 addressable machine, I would then give the machine an ip6
[20:04] <leftyfb> sorry
[20:04] <leftyfb> Hash: the same way you do not need a routable ipv4 ip on your client to talk to other routeable ipv4's on the internet
[20:04] <Hash> Oh, but I do need a routable one on this, for self hosting purposes.
[20:05] <leftyfb> Hash: only if your ISP gave you one
[20:05] <Hash> I did it so I won't have to mess with static ip6. I can just get a world routable ip6 for my desktop
[20:05] <Hash> They do
[20:05] <Hash> I get a 64 and I can also get a /60 by request
[20:05] <leftyfb> Hash: then you don't need the router
[20:05] <Hash> Now I'm confused! haha
[20:05] <Hash> Router is giving me the ipv6 without which I'd have to use a tunnel broker
[20:05] <leftyfb> Hash: /join #networking
[20:05] <Hash> ok
[20:06] <leftyfb> ask there for network basics
[20:06] <jStefan> with ipv6 you could have a different public ipv6 address for every single machine on your network, but those setups are rare for home use. Most common setup is 1 single public ip, and then a network on a different range for local, it doesn't matter if that 2nd network is ipv6 or not
[20:08] <leftyfb> Hash: ^ and with your limited understanding of networking basics, I do NOT suggest to go sticking public ip's on your machines, ipv4 or ipv6.
[20:08] <Hash> I have the first you described. Each machine on my local network is world routable ipv6, and ipv6 comes from the comcast router, without which I don't have ipv6.
[20:08] <mevla> alkisg: In grub.cfg, is there a specific place to add 'break=mount init=/bin/bash' eg.: in : '/boot/vmlinuz... root=UUID ro quiet splash $vt_handoff' at the end maybe ?
[20:09] <leftyfb> Hash: I do not suggest that
[20:09] <jStefan> but you want to use pihole to filter your network? that would conflict with having multiple public IPs, i believe pihole is designed to use just one.
[20:10] <alkisg> mevla: no special place, anywhere will work
[20:10] <leftyfb> Hash: unless you have gone above an beyond with securing every one of those machines as far as firewalls and remote access as well as every device they have access to on your home network, you now have a compromised home network
[20:10] <alkisg> mevla: you can also backup grub.cfg to restore it more easily later
[20:10] <Hash> I think I may not have provided good info to you guys
[20:10] <mevla> OK
[20:10] <Hash> leftyfb: I have.
[20:10] <Hash> I do cybersecurity and doing a bachelors in it rightnow, graduating this year.
[20:11] <Hash> Have made software and did networking/system admin for 14 years before.
[20:11] <Hash> I also don't speak English well
[20:11] <leftyfb> Hash: and yet ....
[20:11] <Hash> And yet what?
[20:11] <Hash> Are you about to call me stupid?
[20:11] <Hash> What's about to happen?
[20:12] <jStefan> the benefits of having each computer with a public ipv6 would be slim for home use.
[20:12] <Hash> jStefan: what was moly for the proxmox I had setup, pubicly routable ipv6, as the router belongs to apartment building and they control it, I have no control over it.
[20:13] <Hash> So to get self hosting working on my end without NAT/ipv4, I had to make the machines/instances world routable ipv6
[20:13] <Hash> So that was that need.
[20:13] <Hash> As for the main desktop, I'm trying to figure out why turning off v6 dhcp will affect me.
[20:13] <alkisg> mevla: it's late here and I'll need to leave, but here's another quicker idea: did you try to boot an older 4.15 kernel? I.e. grub > advanced options for ubuntu > 4.15.previous-version. For example, maybe the problem was in the latest updates and the previous krenel/initramfs still works
[20:14] <leftyfb> Hash: for the desktop, disable ipv6. You do not need it world routable
[20:14] <mevla> alkisg: kvm is stuck at : 'Booting from Hard Disk...' when having done 'kvm -m 1024 /dev/sdb'
[20:14] <Hash> leftyfb: perhaps. I'm looking into it now
[20:14] <jStefan> if you intend to use the pihole, it would "one" public address, for all the clients it would serve on your network, and it can serve all those clients with ipv4 just fine.
[20:14] <Hash> Thank you guys
[20:15] <jStefan> have*
[20:15] <leftyfb> Hash: dhcp6: false     <~~~~ set that
[20:15] <Hash> jStefan: correct, that's how it's been setup. It works on other machines, but the unbuntu desktop whose neetplan I shared, he does not block ads even though pi hole is setup, though pi hole is only setup for ipv4, and not ipv6, so what if I put the ipv6 of the pi hole in the nameservers section of netplan. Do you think that is what is missing?
[20:16] <alkisg> mevla: stop it, edit grub.cfg again, remove quiet splah
[20:16] <alkisg> *splash
[20:16] <Hash> leftyfb: ok
[20:16] <alkisg> mevla: you'll need a vnc viewer to see the kvm screen, it should mention instructions
[20:18] <jStefan> Hash, you could try setting static IPs just to test, if it fixes the issue, then it has something to do with DHCP
[20:18] <Hash> leftyfb: only question is, if I disable ipv6 dhcp, will I even get an ipv6 anymore?
[20:18] <Hash> jStefan: All machines on my network have static ipv4, and dynamic ipv6
[20:18] <leftyfb> Hash: why?
[20:19] <leftyfb> that makes absolutely no sense to me
[20:19] <leftyfb> and a huge security risk
[20:19] <Hash> my logic was that I would get ipv6 from router, and ipv4 I can setup static as I need it.
[20:19] <leftyfb> why?
[20:19] <Hash> leftyfb: as I said earlier, for proxmox instances, which are secure.
[20:19] <Hash> Please scroll up and read again.
[20:20] <jStefan> maybe there's a difference on how windows prioritizes routing and how ubuntu does it. You don't need the IPv6 on the local network, the pihole should handle routing the traffic.
[20:20] <leftyfb> Hash: why does your desktop need a public ipv6 and why does your proxmox need a private ipv4?
[20:20] <Hash> Becusae sometimes I like to host things.
[20:20] <jStefan> disable ipv6, and test it's support with one of those ipv6 ready check websites.
[20:20] <leftyfb> jStefan: pihole dosn't so routing by default
[20:20] <leftyfb> Hash: don't
[20:20] <leftyfb> Hash: you have proxymox
[20:21] <leftyfb> proxmox*
[20:21] <leftyfb> Hash: keep private and public separate
[20:21] <Hash> No one knows my home ip as I go through a VPS, vps masks my ip -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 443 -j DNAT --to-destination homeip:port
[20:21] <leftyfb> Hash: lol
[20:21] <Hash> So when people talk to the domain record, they talk to my vps, and my vps responds, but internally forwards packets to my home
[20:21] <Hash> masqueraded
[20:21] <leftyfb> Hash: you have a degree in security?
[20:21] <Hash> :)
[20:21] <Hash> Currently getting one, yes.
[20:22] <Hash> So I have self hosted at home, and my traffic goes through VPS, and masqueraded, so yeah.
[20:22] <leftyfb> Hash: you do understand there are thousands upon thousands of bots that scour every single public ip there is attempting exploits 24/7 right?
[20:22] <jStefan> security by obscurity, people scan to exploit networks don't need to know who owns the IP, they just scan ALL of them in a range.
[20:22] <Hash> yes, and all of them are closed.
[20:22] <jStefan> people that scan
[20:22] <Hash> All my servers are firewalled to my home ip
[20:22] <leftyfb> Hash: not if you are hosting anything
[20:23] <mevla> alkisg: The whole machine was stuck.  Just reboot.  I will remove the 'quiet splash' to see what's going on
[20:23] <Hash> If my home ip ever changes, I can get in via provider panel and change my ip
[20:23] <Hash> I am not hosting anything at home, just selfhosting practice
[20:23] <leftyfb> Hash: if you have every port closed, then you're not hosting anything and you do not need public ip's
[20:23] <srv> ubuntu 22.04 is awsonnnnnnnnnnnnn
[20:23] <srv> :)
[20:23] <Hash> And even if I do host something at home, it goes through vps, filtered, protected, and only certain traffic is allowed to pass to my home ips
[20:23] <leftyfb> Hash: false
[20:23] <alkisg> mevla: it's late here and I'll need to leave, but here's another quicker idea: did you try to boot an older 4.15 kernel? I.e. grub > advanced options for ubuntu > 4.15.previous-version. For example, maybe the problem was in the latest updates and the previous krenel/initramfs still works
[20:24] <Hash> Look, you're already attempted to make fun of me twice and my education based on some confusing chat online.
[20:24] <Hash> I would respecrfully ask you to stop addressing me any longer.
[20:24] <mevla> alkisg: I'll try.  Will you be there tomorrow ?
[20:24] <alkisg> Sure, see you then :)
[20:24] <Hash> I came here for support, not to be made fun of.
[20:24] <leftyfb> Hash: hosting at home = port open to the world and that same machine is directly connected to your "private" network. You do not have a private network since every single machine has a public ip
[20:25] <mevla> alkisg: all right thanks, much appreciated !
[20:25] <Hash> Bro.
[20:25] <Hash> That's not my concern here.
[20:25] <Hash> I'm not here to discuss security practices with you, in #ubuntuy
[20:25] <Hash> I'm here for ubuntu netplan support.
[20:25] <Hash> Please focus.
[20:25] <jStefan> all i can say is disable the IPv6 on the client and test it, you shouldn't need IPv6 "on the client" to visit IPv6 content because usually there is a router than handles converting the traffic.
[20:25] <jStefan> that*
[20:25] <Hash> jStefan: ok thank I can test that
[20:26] <leftyfb> Hash: anyone who cares about helping people is not going to help you continue in the manner you are. It is insecure at best and at worst, actively contributing to the bots/spam/attacks on the internet for the rest of us
[20:27] <EriC^> mevla: hey
[20:27] <Hash> Based on your limited understanding of my setup over a confusing incomplete chat.
[20:27] <mevla> Eric^ Hi
[20:27] <EriC^> got it booting yet?
[20:27] <jStefan> Hash, good read: https://baihuqian.github.io/2021-01-16-secure-home-network-configure-ipv6-for-your-home-network/
[20:27] <jStefan> they even talk about pihole
[20:28] <leftyfb> Hash: every one of your machines has a publicly accessible ipv6 and a "private" ipv4 on the same interface. That is wrong in at least a dozen ways
[20:28] <jStefan> quote: "If you use Pi-Hole DNS server, the default configuration does not block tracking on IPv6 network. Additional configuration is required to block ads and tracking if you have IPv6 enabled."
[20:28] <Hash> By machines I mean a prox mox setup, with 8 instances for testing, they have no data, and prox mox is in a vm, and doesn't run all the time.
[20:28] <mevla> Eric^: Got it to boot 22.04, so this is what I'm running now.  Have installed emacs, kvm, libvirt but, 18.04 is not booting at all.  I'm trying not alkisg's suggestion of using kvm to boot it.
[20:28] <Hash> It's for practice, again. Wow. Man.
[20:29] <leftyfb> 2022 Apr 24 16:18:38 <Hash>	jStefan: All machines on my network have static ipv4, and dynamic ipv6
[20:29] <EriC^> mevla: yeah
[20:29] <Hash> leftyfb: you're starting to upset me
[20:29] <Hash> Can you please stop?
[20:29] <leftyfb> 2022 Apr 24 16:08:21 <Hash>	I have the first you described. Each machine on my local network is world routable ipv6, and ipv6 comes from the comcast router, without which I don't have ipv6.
[20:30] <Hash> I think you're staff here are you not?
[20:30] <EriC^> mevla: try mounting /dev/sdb1 for me real quick to troubleshoot
[20:31] <mevla> Eirc^: It's already mounted.  It is now the first entry in the boot menu, but when it boots there's a kernel panic. 22.04 is another entry below.
[20:32] <EriC^> mevla: ok, type '(df -h /mnt; ls -l /mnt/boot; cat /mnt/boot/grub/grub.cfg) | nc termbin.com 9999'
[20:32] <mevla> OK
[20:32] <mevla> Eric^: As chroot into sdb1 ?
[20:32] <EriC^> no from 22.04 terminal
[20:33] <mevla> OK
[20:33] <EriC^> assuming sdb1 is mounted at /mnt
[20:35] <mevla> It's on /mnt/disk1/ but it's OK
[20:35] <Hash> jStefan: fortunately I have all that, thank you. I have pretty tight firewall rules. I tried to put the ipv6 for pihole into netplan nameservers but that hasn't worked yet.
[20:36] <mevla> Eric^: https://termbin.com/kd7m
[20:36] <mevla>  
[20:37] <sandrolinux> hello
[20:37] <Hash> windows vm would not block ads on ipv6, so I had to put the ipv6 DNS in windows as ipv6 dns server, and now windows blocks ads. I just need to to the same for linux network config, tell it to use pihole ipv6 as v6 DNS
[20:37] <Hash> As for my other ipv6 setup, I can discuss that later in another time.
[20:38] <Hash> For now, I just need to tell my ubuntu machine to use ipv6 address of pi hole as v6 DNS
[20:38] <EriC^> mevla: found the problem, you're missing the initrd for the -144 kernel
[20:38] <Hash> that I can't figure out in netplan. I am new to netplan. I know regular network/interfaces
[20:38] <EriC^> mevla: type 'for i in /dev /proc /sys /run; do sudo mount -R $i /mnt$i; done'
[20:39] <mevla> Eric^: I see a initrd.img-4.15.0-142-lowlatency.  Ah, you mean in the grub.cfg ?
[20:39] <EriC^> no, in the ls -l output, no initrd...-144
[20:40] <jStefan> mevla, he means: ls -l /mnt/boot
[20:40] <mevla> OK !
[20:40] <leftyfb> Hash: please do not PM
[20:40] <mevla> mounting the fs ...
[20:40] <jStefan> only 4 initrd's in total, you have 5 kernels
[20:41] <Hash> msg: leftyfb thank you for stopping. I appreciate you and your help.
[20:41] <Hash> No problem. I can thank you here.
[20:41] <mevla> So it;s mean that if teh advanced menu option is used, then I could boot,say, kernel -142 ?
[20:41] <mevla> Sorry for the typos !
[20:41] <jStefan> mevla, EriC^ , what do you think of booting another and reinstalling the kernel with issues with APT?
[20:42] <EriC^> mevla: you're one command away..
[20:42] <mevla> Eric^: Let me mount the fs first.  I'm also taking notes.
[20:43] <EriC^> erm 1 sec, use $i /mnt/disk1$i
[20:43] <EriC^> mevla: for i in /dev /proc /sys /run; do sudo mount -R $i /mnt/disk1$i; done
[20:44] <mevla> Eric^: OK.mounted
[20:44] <EriC^> mevla: ok, type 'sudo chroot /mnt/disk1'
[20:45] <mevla> Eric^: Now chroot into sdb1
[20:46] <EriC^> mevla: 'update-initramfs -c -k 4.15.0-144-lowlatency'
[20:47] <Hash> So, disable ipv6 dhcp, ping6 google.com and voila, no name or service available. Like I initially said, how would I even have ipv6 functionality if I don't have ipv6 on my nic
[20:47] <mevla> Eric^: 'Generating /boot/initrd.img-4.15.0-144-lowlatency' ...
[20:47] <EriC^> mevla: then 'update-grub'
[20:48] <EriC^> mevla: you manually added that break=mount by editing grub.cfg yeah
[20:48] <leftyfb> Hash: name a public site that is only hosted on ipv6 and inaccessible via ipv4
[20:49] <mevla> Eric^: Yes, it was a suggestion by alkisg in order to try w/o having to reboot.
[20:49] <Hash> I don't understand the nature of your question
[20:49] <mevla> Eric^: I guess I could try kvm again after this grub upgrade.
[20:49] <leftyfb> Hash: why do you need to ping6 google.com?
[20:49] <EriC^> no, why would you run that if it works?
[20:49] <Hash> leftyfb: to test ipv6 functionality.
[20:49] <mevla> Instead of rebooting all the way
[20:50] <leftyfb> Hash: why do you need that particular ipv6 functionality?
[20:50] <Hash> leftyfb: if according to you, I diable ipv6 dhcp in netplan, I don't have ipv6 at all anymore and I can't talk to ipv6 enable devices.
[20:50] <Hash> Why do I need ipv6? that's a good question. Let's just go with, I need it.
[20:50] <jStefan> Hash, visit https://ipv6test.google.com/ instead
[20:50] <EriC^> mevla: also im not really sure what that was, but having a fs mounted then inception type mounting it again would break it
[20:50] <leftyfb> Hash: name 1 "ipv6 enabled device" on the internet that you cannot get to
[20:51] <EriC^> mevla: did you run 'update-grub' ?
[20:51] <jStefan> I don't have ipv6 neither local or public. yet it get "
[20:51] <jStefan> No problems detected.
[20:51] <jStefan> You don’t have IPv6, but you shouldn’t have problems on websites that add IPv6 support.
[20:51] <jStefan> "
[20:51] <Hash> without ipv6 on my machine, I can't talk to anyone who has ipv6.
[20:51] <Hash> I don't understand what you're trying to tell me, soryr
[20:51] <leftyfb> Hash: anyone who?
[20:51] <mevla> Eric^: Yes, it's all done.  I'm checking if the break statement is still there
[20:51] <leftyfb> Hash: what can't you get to exactly?
[20:51] <Hash> ok
[20:51] <Hash> One second
[20:51] <EriC^> mevla: ok, once done, type 'exit' to exit the chroot, then reboot
[20:52] <Hash> if I disable ipv6 dhcp like you said, in netplan, my irc stops working, my ipv6 connectivity stops working.
[20:52] <leftyfb> Hash: there are very few publicaly accessible sites that are ipv6-only and don't have some sort of ipv4 bridge so you can still get to them. I doubt you need any of them
[20:52] <Hash> I have no idea why you are trying to get me to turn it off and how magically I'm going to have ipv6 funcitonality without an ipv6 address
[20:52] <mevla> Eric^: I see grub.cfg was regenerated, no break statement now, fine.  I'll give it a try now !
[20:52] <EriC^> cool
[20:52] <Hash> Again, I'm very confused as to what you're on about.
[20:52] <Hash> My apologies for confusion.
[20:54] <jStefan> Hash, disable ipv6 and try to visit https://ipv6test.google.com/
[20:54] <Hash> The moment I do dhcp6: false, I get no more ipv6 functionality on my machine, as there is no longer an ipv6 address.
[20:54] <leftyfb> Hash: if you disable ipv6, your IRC client running on your home machine with a public ipv6 ip stops showing up as ipv6 and will revert to ipv4 from your home instead right?
[20:54] <Hash> No.
[20:54] <Hash> I'm specifically connected to an ipv6 only vps.
[20:54] <Hash> For irc purpose.
[20:56] <Hash> So you're talking about website provders adn other people having an ipv6 to v4 bridge for users. I'm talking about connection to only ipv6 devices, for which I need a ipv6, and the only way to get one, is world addressable.
[20:56] <Hash> Unless I have misunderstood my entire career this.
[20:56] <Hash> Which is possible. I don't say anythign is not possible.
[20:56] <Hash> I could be mistake.
[20:56] <mevla> Eric^: Whoa!  Now running 18.04 !
[20:56] <leftyfb> Hash: setup 1 public ipv6 machine in your proxmox and go through that
[20:56] <Guest65> This is probably FAQ, but not finding the answer anywhere. Why doesn't do-release-upgrade from 21.10 not show 22.04 yet?
[20:57] <EriC^> mevla: great!
[20:57] <Hash> leftyfb: intersting idea.
[20:57] <Hash> can you please elaborate a bit?
[20:57] <mevla> Eric^: It turned out that it was kind of a simple problem, a missing initrd.
[20:57] <leftyfb> Hash: lookup bastion box, only in this case it's kind of the opposite
[20:57] <Hash> yes, I ahve a bastion setup
[20:58] <Hash> reverse huh. hmmm
[20:58] <Hash> Interesting. I'm still learnign btw.
[20:58] <Hash> :)
[20:58] <EriC^> mevla: yup
[20:58] <Hash> and what I described earleir as masquerading my home ip using vps, my vps acts as a bastion for my home.
[20:58] <leftyfb> Hash: this would be a "bastion" you use to access your ipv6 from ipv4 The bastion has an ipv6 address on one interface to the internet and ipv4 to talk to the rest of your network
[20:58] <mevla> Eric^: Many thanks !  Also to alkisg and isiria.  Do Ubuntu accept donations or, is there a project I can donate to ?
[20:58] <jStefan> Guest65, it takes a few days for the update check to show it for everybody
[20:59] <Hash> I setup A/AAAA for my VPS, and domain resovles to my VPS, but vps behidn the scene, talks to my home ip, but people dont' see my home ip.
[20:59] <srv> how do i istal adwaita dark theme on ubuntu 22.04 on gnome tweaks
[20:59] <Hash> So I got confused when you attempted to ridicule me for my security practice.
[20:59] <Hash> That is effectively how I hide my home ip when self hosting from home using A/AAAA record
[20:59] <leftyfb> Hash: none of that matters
[21:00] <leftyfb> Hash: none of that affects in any way the fact that all of your machines on your network have their own public ipv6 and "private" ipv4. That is completely bad and goes against a multitude of basic security policies. Regardless of firewalls
[21:00] <jStefan> Guest65, more technical answer, there are 4 meta-release files in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/ they are used depending if it's LTS and/or development, etc. When those files are updated to include said release, them the update tool can offer it.
[21:00] <jStefan> then*
[21:01] <EriC^> mevla: no problem!
[21:01] <Hash> leftyfb: not all machine, and I have only one PC, this desktop, by machiens I meant the VM lab's proxmox setup for practice.
[21:01] <Hash> No real actual data lives on those instances.
[21:01] <jStefan> Guest65, meta-release, last updated: 2022-02-24 23:01
[21:01] <leftyfb> then they don't need to be public
[21:01] <Hash> And the prox mox is only active when I need to practice, otherwise all those ipv6 wolld reoutable machines/isntances stay off
[21:01] <Hash> leftyfb: they need to be public to host things
[21:01] <Hash> I practice hosting things in proxmox
[21:01] <leftyfb> Hash: false
[21:02] <Hash> for example, I need to host nginx site in proxmox vm, I need it to be world routable ipv6
[21:02] <Hash> because I can't forward 80 or 443 as I have no access to the router
[21:02] <Hash> it's apt complex router in office.
[21:02] <leftyfb> wrong again
[21:02] <Hash> So to get around that limitation, for the machiens who need to host stuff, I get world routable ipv6, which doesn't need NAT or forwarding
[21:02] <leftyfb> build a router with a VM and one of your ipv6 public ip's
[21:03] <Hash> ok then
[21:03] <Hash> ?
[21:03] <leftyfb> 2 interfaces, 1 public, 1 private
[21:03] <Hash> ok
[21:03] <leftyfb> good luck
[21:03] <Hash> Thanks
[21:03] <Hash> I will try stuff
[21:04] <jStefan> or you can buy a router, and have it with the 1 public ip, then you can configure what gets thru. hardware or software router, should be about the same
[21:04] <Hash> I can't control the cablemode/rotuer in office. The manager lady does
[21:05] <Hash> if I could, I would jsut forward ports to private ipv4 network behind NAT
[21:05] <jStefan> then dont control that one, control your own
[21:05] <Hash> but since I cannot, I do ipv6 wold routable to those instances
[21:05] <Hash> even if I got my own router, I still can't foward incoming ports from main rotuer to my router
[21:05] <Hash> The problem still exists.
[21:05] <jStefan> a router you OWN can have the ipv6 address, just the same as any computer on your network, what happens behind that router is under your control
[21:05] <Hash> sure, I get that part
[21:06] <Hash> but even with my own rotuer, the same problem exists of NATted v4 on the router and me with no access to it.
[21:06] <Hash> so if I even got my own rotuer, it wouldn't solve the problem at hand.
[21:06] <leftyfb> it would
[21:06] <jStefan> if the router with the ipv6 address can't use that port, then how is your computer with the ipv6 address any different?
[21:06] <Hash> What he suggested was an ipv6 bastion, one machine to talk to the world, and behind it, my private ipv6 network
[21:06] <Hash> etc. something like that
[21:07] <Hash> I'll try to figure it out
[21:07] <leftyfb> Hash: you provide the router with a public ip and now you control everything going to and from that ip
[21:07] <jStefan> your router can be one you buy, or a software router
[21:07] <Hash> yeah, I don't have a way to provide the router with a public ip, only public ipv6
[21:07] <leftyfb> same thing
[21:08] <Hash> and the ipv6 would come from the main router
[21:08] <jStefan> correct
[21:08] <leftyfb> Hash: you provide the router with a public IPV6 ip and now you control everything going to and from that IPV6 ip
[21:08] <jStefan> just like if a windows pc would be using it, or a linux pc
[21:08] <Hash> yeah like the bastion thing you said
[21:08] <leftyfb> no
[21:08] <leftyfb> nothing to do with a bastion box
[21:08] <Hash> ok I am a bit more confuse now
[21:08] <Hash> the router is a bastion pretty much
[21:08] <Hash> single point of entry
[21:08] <leftyfb> Hash: see, this is what I don't get. You say you have all this experience with networking and security yet this simple basic networking and security concepts elude you
[21:09] <Hash> Sigh here we go again
[21:09] <Guest65> jStefan Thanks!
[21:09] <leftyfb> buy a router, or build one
[21:09] <Hash> You get pleasure out of trying to insult people, don't you?
[21:09] <Hash> Do I need to ignore you?
[21:09] <leftyfb> Hash: then stick all of your machines behind that on actual private ip's
[21:09] <Hash> I'm already stressed and I can't handle insult to injury
[21:10] <Hash> So if you can provide assistance without raising someone's temperature, that'd be for the best for all of us.
[21:10] <Hash> Now you think, does your statement about my education and experience help this channel sitaution her at all?
[21:10] <Hash> Do you need to say stuff like that?
[21:11] <Hash> Furthremore, my younger days, in the 90s, ipv6 wan't really a thing, when I did networking and system admin work.
[21:12] <Hash> Then I started making software for 15 years. I know that. My mistake, sharing that I'm a student and in school for it.
[21:12] <Hash> Get harassed and insulted no matter where you go. Sigh. I'm out.
[21:12] <leftyfb> Hash: personally, yes, so you don't contribute to the amount of spam/bots/attacks on the internet with your insecure network. What your doing is wrong in many ways and when we tell you that, you take offense that I am downplaying your knowledge and know what you are doing. The simple fact is, you don't. It doesn't make you dumb you just don't know yet. We have told you many times how to fix it. Please do
[21:13] <Hash> Then I will have no choice but to ignore a person who thinks adding insult to injury is personally okay or to raise people's temperature is okay.
[21:13] <jStefan> IPv6 was designed with IPv4 fallback in mind, usually handled by the nameservers. When you visit a website that supports both, the nameserver will provide the IPv4 address automatically. And so far there is very little IPv6 "only" content. Except usually for testing only
[21:13] <Hash> Have a nice life mate.
[21:14] <jStefan> because any service that goes IPv6 only, today, would alienate most of the internet users of today which are not 100% ipv6 "only" ready
[21:14] <Hash> You do no need to bring up my education and experience over and over again in order to insult me and put me down.
[21:15] <enigma9o7[m]> who are you talking to btw hash?  whoever it was, your idea of ignoring them is probably a good idea.  i remember my first day joining this channel there were a couple jerks i put on ignore right away, and odds are you're talking to one of them  now as the conversation looks one sided from my side
[21:15] <Hash> enigma9o7[m]: leftyfb
[21:15] <Hash> I know ops here like to hide and op themsevles randomly to ban people
[21:16] <thingfish> pfft
[21:16] <Hash> so this channel is literally peopel wakling on eggshells
[21:16] <enigma9o7[m]> ah yeah thats the one
[21:16] <Hash> I have to. Otherwise you say the wrong thing and these people like to +q or +b you.
[21:16] <Hash> So even if someone is insulting you, you can't say anything back to these people.
[21:16] <Hash> You just have to take it and jus tpolitely request that they stop.
[21:16] <Hash> If that doesn't work, /ignore does.
[21:16] <Hash> But that is last resort.
[21:34] <jil> hello
[21:35] <jil> I'm trying to run whatsapp on linux whithout a phone. I installed an android emulator but I still need a phone number.  Do you a services offering temporary  virtual phone numbers ?
[21:35] <leftyfb> !ot | jil
[21:38] <dacompchomp> hi. when i put 'sudo alsa unload' as in the command line, i get the following error message: https://dpaste.com/A6YBX5DKL#wrap  Is anyone able to understand what it is saying?
[21:41] <thms> dacompchomp, sounds like it's unloading its modules but a couple are in use and cannot be removed right now.
[21:42] <jil> ok leftyfb thx for guidance
[21:43] <furkan> On Ubuntu 22.04, does anyone else experience a crash when clicking "Reset all" under "View and Customize Shortcuts" from the Keyboard settings tab in Gnome Control Center? I upgraded from Ubuntu 21.10
[21:43] <thms> YMMV but if you really need them to unload and a reboot is out of the way, you count try "modprobe -r xyz" for each of the mentioned modules (xyz being the name of a module). If you run lsmod, you should be able to see if some other module is depending on them, and clean that part up first.
[21:44] <dacompchomp> thms: hmm but i get a similar error message when i put 'sudo alsa force-unload' into the command prompt. i think there is something wrong with my alsa configuration, also, since im only getting dummy output right now
[21:45] <thms> dacompchomp, these are low-level kernel modules. then can be locked and in use without it being a problem.
[21:45] <thms> dacompchomp, did you by any chance try to enable pipewire-pulse?
[21:46] <dacompchomp> thms, im not sure what pipewire-pulse is, so i would say probably now
[21:46] <thms> :D
[21:46] <dacompchomp> not*
[21:47] <thms> Fair enough... I only got the dummy output when configuring pipewire myself, because i was missing a session handler.
[21:48] <dacompchomp> hm. ive had dummy audio since ive installed ubuntu (about a month ago, still a bit of a noob). ive been trying to fix it by going into my configuration files (people on the forums and here suggested that) but so far thats only made the problem worse (because now I get dummy output with earbuds, too)
[21:48] <thms> Not exactly sure what the defaults are supposed to look like, but what I did was; apt-get install pipewire-pulse wireplumber (then rebooted). After this, I had sound again, and now on pipewire (as opposed to the default pulseaudio).
[21:48] <dacompchomp> thms, okay thank you, i will try pipewire-pulse
[21:49] <thms> you need wireplumber too, or you'll end up with dummy alone here too :)
[21:49] <dacompchomp> alright ill make sure to get pipewire too, thanks
[21:49] <dacompchomp> wireplumber*
[21:49] <thms> good luck :)
[21:53] <thms> dacompchomp, On freshly installed 22.04 this should work straight away (I've done it on 4 different machines with 100% success so far). After an upgrade, and since you have been fighting the issues for so long, some dependencies and crucial system configuration may be messed up to the point that it won't just work, but I think it's worth a shot.
[21:55] <dacompchomp> thms, thanks. i just donwloaded everything (wireplumber, pipewire). is there any configuration necessary, or should i reboot my computer now?
[21:55] <thms> if they are installed, just reboot
[21:55] <thms> (defaults will just work)
[21:55] <dacompchomp> okay, thanks. if all goes well, i will see you all on the other side
[21:55] <thms> :)
[22:05] <dacompchomp> thms, i am back. unfortunately it looks like im still getting dummy output. i think that, like you said, there is something wrong with the download i have. would it be a good idea to backup my files and try a fresh copy of ubuntu (or even another linux distro, if that would help)?
[22:05] <thms> dacompchomp, now with the stereo sounds blasting from the PC...
[22:05] <thms> Oh... too fast
[22:05] <dacompchomp> hahaha
[22:06] <thms> dacompchomp, if you have even slightly standard hardware, a fresh ubuntu install should work out of the box.
[22:06] <dacompchomp> this computer was originally an apple desktop
[22:07] <dacompchomp> i think ill try to download a fresh ubuntu, run it on a usb. see if that works
[22:07] <thms> You could try a fresh 22.04 install (maybe a fresh download - or at least check the SHA256SUM). I amd not familiar with the mac hardware, but if believe it should work fine
[22:07] <thms> i am*
[22:08] <dacompchomp> okay, thanks. ill get on that now
[22:09] <thms> dacompchomp, good luck... again :)
[22:09] <dacompchomp> haha. thank you!
[22:22] <rdz> hey all. I just upgraded to 22.04 (from 20.04) almost all is fine. My finger memory wants vertical virtual desktops. The gnome-extension I found works only with older gnome-shell versions. Is there a solution that works for gnome-shell 42, Ubuntu 22.04 respectively?
[22:28] <de-facto> trying to install the new ubuntu on my pc with bios (not uefi)
[22:29] <de-facto> when formating it wants an EFI partition, why?!
[22:29] <de-facto> No EFI System Partition was found. This system will likely not be able to boot successfully, and the installation process may fail.
[22:29] <de-facto> Please go back and add an EFI System Partition, or continue at your own risk.
[22:29] <de-facto> well its NOT an UEFI system, how do i tell that the installer?
[22:30] <de-facto> should i just ignore it?
[22:32] <Jeremy31> de-facto: It does say you can continue at your own risk
[22:34] <de-facto> well i guess i am going to try it, i hope its smart enough to install GRUB
[22:35] <Jeremy31> de-facto: did you boot the installer in EFI mode?
[22:36] <de-facto> nope
[22:36] <de-facto> i had to convert it to MBR because the ISO got a bug where it would not boot
[22:37] <Jeremy31> IIRC booting in EFI mode brings a text grub menu, booting in BIOS mode has a nice graphic with Ubuntu will automatically boot in 10 seconds or similar
[22:37] <de-facto> hmm it showed the text grub menu
[22:38] <de-facto> but there is no /sys/firmware/efi
[22:38] <de-facto> hence i assume its not EFI mode
[22:38] <Jeremy31> de-facto: Reboot and see if you can get a BIOS boot menu and use the non EFI option for the ISO
[22:39] <de-facto> how can i get a bios boot menu?
[22:39] <Jeremy31> de-facto: in terminal check> mokutil --sb-state
[22:39] <Jeremy31> The BIOS boot menu depends on manufacturer on what button needs to be pushed at boot
[22:40] <de-facto> EFI variables are not supported on this system
[22:40] <Jeremy31> It must be booted in BIOS/CSM then
[22:40] <de-facto> ok it finished, trying to reboot
[22:40] <de-facto> yes
[22:44] <ForeverNoob[m]> Hi, as I understand it, for 22.04, Ubuntu minimal installation has been deprecated and instead only the server install is available. Is this correct?
[22:45] <ravage> that depends on how you define minimal. the desktop installer has a minimal option
[22:48] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: I'd say headless and with minimal amount of packages.
[22:48] <ravage> then the server installer is what you want yes
[22:49] <ForeverNoob[m]> what is its install size if all you want is an sshd running on the finalized installed system?
[22:50] <ravage> no idea. try it in a VM?
[22:50] <ravage> there is also #ubuntu-server
[22:51] <jStefan> ForeverNoob[m], one of my VMs has  3.3G   used
[22:51] <jStefan> i'd say that system is mostle the basics
[22:51] <jStefan> mostly*
[22:52] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: I'd love to but my RAM usage is like 90% in use right now :p
[22:52] <ForeverNoob[m]> hmm, I can live with 3.3G
[22:52] <jStefan> ForeverNoob[m], that is with the package ubuntu-standard, could be smaller with ubuntu-minimal
[22:53] <ForeverNoob[m]> sounds good
[22:53] <jStefan> ForeverNoob[m], did you ask us ram use or disk use?
[22:53] <jStefan> nevermind i mixed up ravage's answer
[22:54] <ravage> the server iso is only about 1.4gb in size
[22:54] <ForeverNoob[m]> yeah I was just saying that firing up another VM is probably not a good idea for me right now :p
[22:54] <jStefan> i haven't installed ubuntu-server from scratch in a long time, as i mostly upgrade, and it's been a few upgrades.
[22:54] <ravage> and you can select packages you want
[22:56] <de-facto> i think it may have worked, although booting was quite slow
[22:58] <johnfg> Hi folks!  I ran software upgrader, and checked "For long-term support versions", but 22.04 LTS is still not showing up.  Anything else I should do?  Running 20.04 LTS now, all upgrades.
[22:59] <jhutchins> johnfg: As I understand it, 22.04 isn't officially LTS until 22.04.1
[22:59] <leftyfb> "upgradable"
[22:59] <ravage> it is LTS. but upgrades from previous LTS will be enabled with the first point release
[23:00] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: does the server install have a graphical installer? If so, does it fallback to TUI installer if graphics is not available?
[23:00] <ravage> ForeverNoob[m], it has some kind of UTF-8 text installer interface called subiquity
[23:00] <leftyfb> johnfg: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-22-04-lts
[23:00] <jStefan> upgrades aren't even offered for 21.10 yet.
[23:00] <jStefan> unless with the -d flag
[23:01] <pikapika> PSA if you see tkinter missing even though you have installed the package, you should go and install the python3 version specifically
[23:01] <pikapika> I don't know if its packaged differently on other oses but here you have to manually install the python 3 one if you have a 3 program
[23:01] <ravage> ForeverNoob[m], https://p.haxxors.com/oo8wbgvo.png
[23:02] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: ah yeah I think I used this kind of installer when I was installing one of the previous version server installs.
[23:03] <ravage> https://p.haxxors.com/m5ploy8k.png
[23:03] <ravage> i can tell you the size in a moment
[23:04] <johnfg> Thanks so much guys.  I guess the person who told me they'd upgraded to 22.04 LTS didn't quite give me the whole story.
[23:04] <johnfg> leftyfb: I looked at that link, and will use that if I don't want to wait.  Is that what you did?
[23:05] <leftyfb> johnfg: I almost never upgrade. Always fresh install. I have ansible playbooks that build my machine back the way I want every time and then I restore from backup
[23:05] <pikapika> leftyfb, yeah
[23:06] <ravage> ForeverNoob[m], 4.5G. but that includes a 2.3GB swap file
[23:06] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: oh yeah I remember that, the import SSH ID from Github/Launchpad is pretty handy.
[23:06] <pikapika> Upgrades have led to issues even with a nearly fresh base of the previous version for me
[23:06] <pikapika> but
[23:06] <pikapika> how much work is this ansible to set up
[23:06] <ForeverNoob[m]> ravage: ah ok, that sounds pretty doable.
[23:06] <pikapika> I want to automate my installation too for the next time
[23:06] <pikapika> (I am trying to manually document each key steps I took after installation in text right now)
[23:07] <ravage> pikapika, the "setup" is apt install ansible
[23:07] <ravage> writing the scripts is the real work
[23:07] <pikapika> ravage, I meant writing the configurations for ansible
[23:08] <ravage> that depends on the complexity of your installation
[23:08] <leftyfb> pikapika: feel free to /join #ansible for help with ansible
[23:10] <pikapika> ravage, mainly lots of small changes that add up to an annoying lot
[23:10] <pikapika> I don't think I have made much changes at base system level like editing /etc/ things and backporting dkms, etc but there is some of that too
[23:32] <morganu> 20.04 I am looking for a python shell gui window and cant find it. I try activities which tells me it is available (not installed) and when I click on it it is absent.
[23:33] <leftyfb> morganu: you mean an IDE?
[23:33] <leftyfb> python is not GUI, nor is it's shell
[23:35] <morganu> from the tutorial:  Using the Python Shell, IDLE and Writing our FIRST program
[23:35] <morganu> from a book about learning python.
[23:36] <morganu> We’ll be writing our code using the IDLE program that comes bundled with our Python interpreter.
[23:36] <leftyfb> morganu: the package name is idle3
[23:36] <morganu> and do I invoke it from terminal?
[23:37] <leftyfb> morganu: install the package called idle3
[23:37] <ravage> https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/all/idle/filelist
[23:37] <ravage> so its 'idle'
[23:38] <kostkon> !info idle
[23:38] <leftyfb> ravage: it's idle3
[23:38] <morganu> I am installing idle3 all lower case. right?
[23:38] <ravage> no
[23:38] <ravage> the binary is idle
[23:38] <leftyfb> morganu: yes
[23:39] <ravage> so thats how you invoke it from terminal. that was his second querstion
[23:39] <ravage> *question
[23:39] <morganu> the words: the binary is .. does not help me to act.  ( I know what a binary file IS but not how to use one in linux.)
[23:39] <morganu> I am her since you guys care.
[23:40] <leftyfb> ravage: morganu: if it's a GUI, more than likely it's in the list of GUI applications like firefox
[23:40] <ravage> that is not the terminal. and thats what he asked
[23:40] <leftyfb> morganu: but yes, to call it from terminal, you type: idle
[23:40] <leftyfb> but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense calling GUI applications from terminal
[23:41] <leftyfb> morganu: you should be launching it just like you would firefox
[23:43] <ravage> morganu, for your first python steps that sounds like a reasonable way. when you know the basics maybe check out https://vscodium.com/
[23:43] <morganu> leftyfb, "the list of gui applications" is not a good set either. ah you mean what "Activities" shows.  Yes I have two, one says python. It opens. I shall proceed.
[23:44] <morganu> I haev been a fortran and pascal programmer in the wayback. so I am ignorant and smart. I am starting at the beginning.
[23:46] <leftyfb> morganu: after installing idle3, you should see "idle" in the list of "activities"
[23:47] <leftyfb> though it's not activities really
[23:47] <leftyfb> hit the windows(super) key on your keyboard and type: idle
[23:47] <leftyfb> it should popup, it enter on it
[23:47] <leftyfb> hit*
[23:52] <morganu> my brain is now exploding: framework, library. Very quickly I am beginning to understand how it is that I have had NO IDE what was meant in job descriptions. Peace.  (reading framework vs library till I find a transparent description.)
[23:53] <Intelo> Hi
[23:54] <leftyfb> morganu: IDLE is an IDE
[23:54] <Intelo> I am on  20.04.4 LTS. Why I can't upgrade to 22.04 LTS. If I do `do-release-upgrade`, it says "There is no development version of an LTS available."
[23:56] <thingfish> Intelo: the developers have put upgrading on hold until the first point release.
[23:57] <leftyfb> Intelo: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-22-04-lts
[23:58] <Intelo> thingfish when would that be?
[23:58] <Intelo> leftyfb do I later need to revert back to non-dev release?
[23:59] <leftyfb> Intelo: just read the article and follow the directions
[23:59] <Intelo> leftyfb thingfish is it a good idea to upgrad now?