=== JanC is now known as Guest5108 === JanC_ is now known as JanC [16:00] o/ [16:01] hey! I'm here but will not be able to stay for an hour [16:04] !DMB? [16:04] or do we have an alias of the sort? [16:04] i think it's set in #ubuntu-devel [16:05] Robie sent an email saying he can't do that one [16:05] but i suspect nobody else will be able to attend [16:05] yeah [16:05] Lukasz is at the same sprint than me, unsure if he plans to try to join or not [16:05] o/ [16:05] i think everyone on the dmb except me and teward are at the sprint [16:06] I'm not at the sprint [16:06] *waves* [16:06] *slurps the caffeine elixirs* [16:06] Lukasz is in a session at least for another 10 min according to the calendar so we should probably not count on him [16:06] kanashiro, around? [16:07] should we start with those here? [16:10] hum, is my IRC lagging or is everyone just quiet? [16:10] Its quiet seb128 [16:11] bdmurray, thanks [16:11] how do we get moving? I would chair the meeting if I was familiar enough with the process but I don't feel like I can do that efficiently today [16:12] ddstreet: ? [16:12] i can chair if there are no volunteers [16:12] #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board [16:12] Meeting started at 16:12:48 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:12] Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick [16:13] #topic Current meeting chair [16:13] this hasn't been discussed for a while, but I think having only sil2100 on the list doesn't seem optimal; anyone else want to volunteer to be on the chairing rotation? [16:14] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda [16:14] for reference, the agenda i'm going thru [16:14] I would after a couple of more meetings [16:14] I will do aft... same [16:14] ok guess we can bring it up again at later mtg [16:14] i'll skip the long-term action items as we usually do [16:15] 👍 [16:15] #topic previous action items [16:15] #subtopic ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application [16:15] this is done [16:15] #subtopic ddstreet adjust fnordahl PPU acl [16:15] this is done, i haven't checked the TB bug (there is a later item to check it) [16:15] #subtopic kanashiro announce athos successful application [16:15] this is listed as done [16:16] #subtopic kanashiro adjust athos ACL for MOTU [16:16] also listed as done [16:16] #subtopic sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) [16:16] i assume this should be carried over, as he's not here [16:16] #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) [16:16] ACTION: sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) [16:16] #subtopic sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU [16:17] will carry over as well since he's busy at the sprint [16:17] #action sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) [16:17] ACTION: sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) [16:17] #subtopic teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) [16:17] carry over teward? [16:17] yep [16:17] #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) [16:17] ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) [16:17] ok that's all the previous action items [16:17] the only application is from me, for a ubuntu-support-uploaders team [16:18] does the rest of the board want to consider that now or defer it to a meeting where more members are present? [16:19] Are there people currently interested and ready to join that team? [16:19] yes [16:19] I think we can review it now, or at least start discussing it [16:20] i actually am trying to hand this application off to a colleague, but haven't done that just yet [16:20] ok let's do at least an initial discussions then [16:20] #topic ubuntu-support-uploaders team application [16:21] for clarification, this request is to create a new DMB-managed team that has upload rights for a new packageset [16:21] will this team have the ability to approve their own members? [16:21] * bdmurray is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation [16:21] initially, the only team member would be me (assuming i haven't passed this off to someone before its approved), and the initial first package is sosreport [16:22] bdmurray the DMB docs on this aren't exactly clear, at least to my reading, but no this would be a standard DMB-managed team that can't manage its own members; new members would need to apply to the DMB to join [16:23] okay [16:23] why do you feel like there is a need for a such team? [16:24] and who do you envision to be interested to join it? [16:24] so that the ACL for all the support team's packages is kept in a single packageset, so new members don't need to apply for PPU for a collection of packages [16:25] re: joiners, members of Canonical support and/or community members who support Ubuntu [16:26] i believe the setup would be very similar to the 'ubuntu-server' packageset, which is ACL'ed by the ~ubuntu-server-dev team [16:26] so anyone on the Canonical server team i suspect is familiar with that and understands the usefulness of the setup [16:27] For the server team I'd think its a stepping stone to core dev though. [16:27] seb128 if i understand the ~ubuntu-desktop team correctly (which has ACL to upload into the ubuntu-desktop packageset), that is different as far as managing its own members [16:28] bdmurray could be, though i don't think that's necessarily a goal for support members [16:28] I see the interest of creating a set, providing the content of the set has value to some people who aren't going to apply to more [16:29] I'm not really familiar with what the support team usually needs though, nor with sosreport [16:29] sosreport, systemtap, crash, gdb, etc [16:30] packageset additions would have to be approved by the DMB of course [16:30] initially it's only sosreport [16:30] right, I just foresee that to be of real use that set would need to include things like gdb and apport [16:30] Given that any changes, of people or packages, would be managed by the DMB I'm fine with creating this team. [16:30] which probably creates an higher contribution trust level than sosreport [16:31] seb128 absolutely, i just want to defer adding those packages until we can be sure we actually want/need upload rights for them [16:31] gdb, for example, generally hasn't really required us to upload fixes for it [16:31] even though we use it extensively [16:31] I feel like people doing those packages should probably aim for coredev [16:32] that might change in the future if/when debuginfod is implemented for ubuntu [16:32] doing uploads for* [16:32] seb128 why do you feel that? support's goal is very different and very far removed from devel release work [16:32] you may be viewing this from product engineering perspective [16:33] it's more that I see some of those components as key ubuntu packages, preinstalled [16:33] so I wouldn't hand upload right for those lightly [16:33] and to win the trust needed you would probably need significant uploads to Ubuntu [16:33] that seems more like a question of which specific packages should be in the packageset though, not if the packageset should be created in the first place? [16:34] right [16:34] if you haven't ever used sosreport, for example, do you think only coredevs should be able to upload that? [16:34] but the path leads me to wonder if the packageset is going to be of real use [16:34] no [16:34] crash likewise is heavily used by support, but i doubt if that really needs a coredev to upload it [16:35] right [16:35] in any case, the initial application only involves sosreport [16:35] I don't see an issue with creating that packageset [16:35] any more q from anyone? [16:36] since i'm applying for the packageset/team, i'll abstain from the voting [16:36] i would like to get things rolling before the next meeting though, is it ok with everyone here if I ask for a vote (and any further discussion) to happen on the ML? [16:37] that's ok with me [16:37] that's fine with me [16:37] #action ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML [16:37] ACTION: ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML [16:37] ok thanks, i'll send an email to the list to follow up [16:38] just for clarification, my questions were basically aimed at getting a feeling on the value of a such set, but I've not been in the DMB long enough to really understand if that's something we should give consideration to [16:38] #topic open TB bugs [16:39] seb128 yep i understand, and i think the DMB might benefit from more defined docs to help new members (and old members!) understand what exactly the process and policies are [16:39] anyway, moving on [16:39] #subtopic fnordahl PPU [16:39] right, sorry for derailling thins :) [16:39] things [16:39] np :) [16:39] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1967795 [16:39] Launchpad bug 1967795 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] PPU for ~fnordahl" [Undecided, Fix Released] [16:39] look like this is done [16:39] #topic AOB [16:40] #subtopic No single official source of DMB rules/procedures/policies, and KB wiki page is not complete or correct [16:40] I don't know if we want to discuss this here and/or in the ML [16:40] and this might just be my personal opinion [16:41] ML or another time [16:41] I need to wrap in a few minutes at least [16:41] #subtopic Suggestion (from ddstreet) to discontinue use of private DMB IRC channel, and keep all official communication public [16:41] this also is just a suggestion from me [16:41] no need to discuss now, if everyone needs to wrap [16:41] any comments before we end? [16:42] or any other AOB topics? [16:42] not from me [16:42] ok let's wrap, thanks everyone o/ [16:42] #endmeeting [16:42] Meeting ended at 16:42:32 UTC. Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-05-02-16.12.moin.txt [16:42] the private channel was discussed on the list iirc, we just need to come to an conclusion [16:42] let's try to do that next time [16:42] ddstreet, thanks!