 oh that reminds me
 tsimonq2: the git repos need moved off phab - i'm finishing the gittea setup today so we will need to clone all the repos over proper
 and then theres our git.  simpler than the phab diffusion stuff and easier to learn heh
 kc2bez: ^^ for awareness
[00:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, that sounds exciting! Is there already a link? teward001
 "[telegram] <teward001> kc2bez: ^..." <- Nice, thank you. 
[00:34] <kc2bez[m]> Yeah arc and phabricator are not pleasant to learn. It does make reviews super nice though.
[00:36] <Rober[m]> i'm curious to see how it works now instead of phab
[02:15] <tsimonq2> -100 on gbp
[02:15] <tsimonq2> No. We aren't using it. Hard line. :P
[02:15] <tsimonq2> Also took you long enough ;]
[02:16] <tsimonq2> s/]/)/
[02:16] <tsimonq2> I have been through gbp hell already 
[02:16] <tsimonq2> We don't need to store all upstream changes in Git. Just our packaging 
[02:17] <tsimonq2> Makes it 10x less intuitive to update to new upstream releases. I want to update the changelog, run uscan, and be done 
[02:17] <tsimonq2> And only push those lines, not the 500 million commits that happened in the meantime 
[02:18] <tsimonq2> Anyway I'm cranky, I just wanna be back in Green Bay already, talk to y'all later or tomorrow or so :P
 simon: hey you know what fun fact
 you aren't dev lead anymore :P
[02:35]  * arraybolt3[m] horks teward001's hard drive
 plain git will be better than phab and diffusion and ark though
 *revokes arraybolt3's access to Lubuntu resources* oops did I do that
 *yawns*
[02:36] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL I don't have write access to anything official though, so what's there to take?
[02:36] <arraybolt3[m]> ok here's your hard drive back
 *yawns* I should be going to bed too but i'm too energized :\
[02:38] <arraybolt3[m]> teward001: OK, actual tip, not a joke, chamomile tea is supposed to help you wind down for sleep.
[02:39] <arraybolt3[m]> teward001: Also, quick question for you, will Phab accounts be migrated to Gitea automatically, or is there anything I need to do in order to get setup with Lubuntu Gitea?
 melatonin helps with winding down too.  can't stand tea.
 the gitea isn't even set up fully yet :P
 so not really
 i think we'll need to rereg users and stuff
 but we're not at migration point yet
 tsimonq2: your gbp issues are because you don't know gbp.  I've had to unfubar gbp several times, and most of the Salsa repos I use use gbp so.
 *salts Simon for being stubborn*
[02:42]  * arraybolt3[m] challenges teward001 to launch rvim in a terminal and then quit without using :q or forcing the terminal emulator shut
 also simon: there's ways to do the overlay without using a full source copy.  the only bits that need that are the upstream tarball branch, which is what the orig.tars are from anyways.
[02:47] <arraybolt3[m]> teward001: I hope we don't start using gbp just because I just spent all this time learning quilt and the million things that go with it...
[02:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Though, I'll just ride with whatever tools the core devs say to use. If Simon ends up switching to gbp, I'll learn it. But I don't think he wants to do that.
[02:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (And please please please don't tell me to start using Windows...)
 tbh
 quilt and gbp work fine together
 evidence: NGINX on Salsa, debian/xca on Salsa, Debian/pv on Salsa (this one uses the overlay i mentioned)
 but i digress
 *yawns*
 unrelated: I love how docker now included docker-compose as an inbuilt function - docker compose ... is easier than docker-compose to install xD
[02:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Isn't Docker closed-source?
 I'd gladly use something else but for some applications the only way to deploy them is via Docker
 (discourse for example)
 also just because something is closed source doesn't mean we can't use it :P
[02:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, but... hmm... part of me really doubts that Docker is the only way to run Discourse, I bet it could be hacked into LXD.
 it could be, if you really want to fuss with all the Rails chaos
[02:57] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess you know what you're doing, though. I just don't like Docker's closed-sourced-ness. Which is funny because I'm happy to use GitHub...
 but you know what, if we do that we lose support from upstream :P
 arraybolt: see here's the thing
 "closed source" isn't *bad*
 sure we can prefer other things to it
 but in some cases it's easier to bite the bullet than invest the time in trying to hack something into place
[02:57] <arraybolt3[m]> I know that.
 and besides, Docker isn't running everything, and even if it were each service is compartmentalized within LXD containers on the host
[02:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess Docker gives away their stuff to open-source projects, right?
 yay for high insanity security compartmentalization
 docker is also "free" you know
 also containerd that docker uses is, it seems, open source
 so technically this is containerd + some management frameworks for docker :P
[02:59] <arraybolt3[m]> I just hate software that's like, "Well, this is free, but if you want the *fancy* stuff, pay $X.YZ a month."
 keeping in mind that docker's core functionality is all we need and not behind a paywall, I don't know why this argument applies to Docker
 i agree with things like redis cloud, etc. those subscription models are annoying
 but usually that's for SAAS
 not self-hosted ;)
[03:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Because it makes me grumpy. LOL
 it makes me grumpy too but i don't get annoyed about it here.
 :P
 at least we aren't using RHEL which you need to pay out the wazoo for for standard update repos
 :P
[03:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah but for that you install Rocky GNU/Hurd and away you go.
[03:04] <arraybolt3[m]> One concern - Ubuntu is a commercial open source project, and Canonical has 505 employees according to Google, Docker only allows free use for businesses with less than 250 employees. Since Lubuntu is a flavour, does it not count as part of Ubuntu from a Docker standpoint, or is this sorta in violation of their terms?
 IANAL, but technically speaking Lubuntu Project and Lubuntu Association behind the funding is less than 100 people officially
 and the likelihood Docker tries to take us to court over this is zero, they don't gain anything and stand to lose a lot
[03:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh my gosh I'm throwing a fit for no reason. Docker Desktop is the pricy thing, the CLI is free and Desktop isn't even available for Linux. Alright, use Docker, enjoy Docker, don't listen to me.
 correct.
 docker daemon is basically just a containerd wrapper
 but Docker Desktop is the GUI tool *they* develop for GUI management of docker daemon
 even so we qualify here:  > Non-commercial open source projects
 Ubuntu isn't a commercial product itself
 Ubuntu Pro and Canonical's enterprise offerings are
 also
 from the documentation of Docker:
 "Docker Personal is the new name of the Docker Free subscription. With its focus on open source communities, individual developers, education, and small businesses, Docker Personal continues to allow free use of Docker– including Docker CLI, Docker Compose, Docker Engine, Docker Desktop, Docker Hub, Kubernetes, Docker Build/BuildKit, Docker Official Images, Docker Scan, and more."
 we're still an open source community
 so for the purposes of Lubuntu we're only using it to leverage fast deployment of app containers, but not much of the rest
 so :P
[03:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, whatever. I was totally wrong. I might try using Docker if the Linux version is totally free, and it looks like it's even open-source. I... am ridiculous. Hey, makes me like Linux more!
 the linux version of Docker Engine, etc. is free, and for your own personal use it's also free to use Desktop
 otherwise the Docker engine wouldn't be installable from public repositories like Docker provides, you'd need a license URL for it
 i'mma go sleep now, i need to get up early for FT job.  *sips the warm milk and then logs off*
[03:11] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, c ya!
[03:26] <tsimonq2> I'm telling y'all right now that if we switch to GBP I'm force writing over it every time we touch it lol
[04:11] <tsimonq2> Sorry, /me cranky, -> bed
[04:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, I got cranky earlier, did you see my whole debate with Thomas over Docker???
[04:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Anyway, see you tomorrow!
[04:14] <tsimonq2> It's not my first rodeo unfortunately, I've received several warnings in my 7 years of this :P it's never been brought up in any other context though so I think I'm fine :)
[04:14] <tsimonq2> But no I'll read it once I'm awake enough to accurately comprehend ;)
[04:15] <arraybolt3[m]> I was being silly. It's not even worth reading, I was confused and almost entirely wrong.
[04:15] <arraybolt3[m]> With the Docker debate I mean. You can read it for comic value later, but there's nothing important there that I know of.
[04:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Anyway, thanks for all your help with helping me learn Quilt and all that stuff, and I look forward to finishing up the patching and whatnot in the morning!
[15:25] <tsimonq2> Good morning,
[15:25] <tsimonq2> Today I'm spending the day recovering from SELF. You guys and Altispeed won't see much of me today 
[15:26] <kc2bez[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> Good morning,
[15:26] <kc2bez[m]> > 
[15:26] <kc2bez[m]> > Today I'm spending the day recovering from SELF. You guys and Altispeed won't see much of me today 
[15:26] <kc2bez[m]> Rest up.