[00:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): What directory am I supposed to run pkgkde-symbolshelper from? I tried it from within the packaging directory, from within the debian directory, and from the folder immediately outside of the packaging directory where the deb files were, and it's giving me the same error every time (said error being "pkgkde-symbolshelper: error: symbol template file was not found for package 'libfm-qt'")
[00:00] <arraybolt3[m]> 🤦‍♂️Because it's called libfm-qt11! Argh...
[00:01] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, now it seems to have worked.
[00:01] <tsimonq2> Cool :)
[00:02] <tsimonq2> Remember though... be careful. I'd say before you even do that, update symbols on **all** arches
[00:02] <tsimonq2> So do a PPA upload with all arches enabled and then grab all those build logs
[00:02] <tsimonq2> Then use batchpatch
[00:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, I thought that was for after doing the patch... Glad we got git!
[00:02] <tsimonq2> You'll get a more robust fix the first time
[00:02] <arraybolt3[m]> That way I can start over.
[00:03] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I would still save that commit somewhere Just In Case.
[00:03] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I didn't do much so it should be easy to replicate, but I'll save it just in case.
[00:04] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also, that kde thingy stripped all the "0ubuntu1" silliness for me! Woot!)
[00:04] <tsimonq2> Cool
[00:08] <arraybolt3[m]> So, just to make sure I have the workflow right: git clone, uscan, sbuild, deal with everything other than symbols in Lintian, dput, fight with the PPA until everything builds, then get all the symbols files, batchpatch, sbuild one more time, then git push and PR.
[00:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Is that correct?
[00:09] <tsimonq2> s/get all the symbols files/get all the build logs/
[00:09] <tsimonq2> Otherwise yes
[00:10] <tsimonq2> HOWEVER...
[00:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, thank you.
[00:10] <tsimonq2> Please try to iterate on it in the PPA until Lintian comes up clean 
[00:10] <tsimonq2> It may take you a few tries since it's your first ever go on it 
[00:10] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. Each PPA build will probably take hours, right?
[00:10] <tsimonq2> no lol
[00:11] <tsimonq2> Publishing takes much longer than the build does
[00:11] <tsimonq2> build should take like 10 min tops 
[00:11] <tsimonq2> You don't need to wait for it to publish unless you're doing install tests 
[00:11] <tsimonq2> Build/Lintian related tests where you just need to see if the thing builds and doesn't explode in the process, you're just waiting on build logs 
[00:12] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, good. I was remembering the 2- to 4-hour wait we had when waiting for stuff to migrate to -proposed that once or twice.
[00:12] <tsimonq2> Btw if I'm being overly verbose I shotgunned 2 5 hour energy drinks in the last 4 hours ;)
[00:12] <arraybolt3[m]> No, I need this much info! Thank you!
[00:13]  * arraybolt3[m] who doesn't drink caffeine at all (yet) hopes you survive that, recommends double-checking warnings on the labels of the energy shots
[00:13] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah that's also Britney though. I think you'll find this page fascinating and I will be able to answer any questions you may have. Understanding this process will make so much click for you. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
[00:13] <tsimonq2> sleep is for the weak
[00:14] <tsimonq2> I'll sleep when I've made my money and made the girlfriend happy, in that order cause she's at work :P
[00:14] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, but one thing at a time. If I try to absorb everything all at once I'm going to be trying to patch symbol files with Britney and wondering why git-buildpackage isn't working...
[00:14] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: You're okay
[00:14] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't actually use gbp for the record.)
[00:15] <tsimonq2> It's going to take you some time... there's a reason it usually takes someone 9-12 months from 0 to mastery here :)
[00:15] <tsimonq2> So, what's next on your list, just working through the PPA stuffs?
[00:16] <arraybolt3[m]> No, I tried to tackle the symbols files first LOL. I'm going to start from scratch, pretend like the symbols file stuff isn't happening, then tackle it very last. Also, should I redo the previous packages with the PPA for Lintian's sake, or is what I've done so far OK?
[00:16] <tsimonq2> Nah it's okay
[00:16] <tsimonq2> Carry on sir :)
[00:17] <arraybolt3[m]> 👌
 "It's going to take you some time..." <- “The Only True Wisdom Consists In Knowing That You Know Nothing.” - - Ted Logan 
[00:25] <tsimonq2> I still know nothing compared to e.g. Colin ;)
[00:25] <kc2bez[m]> I have much to learn too
[00:25] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Depends on what you're doing, but when it comes to Linux, that's most certainly true. I told someone to "chmod -R 0644 $HOME" the other day, it didn't work so well.
[00:25] <arraybolt3[m]> chmod has snagged me so many times...
[00:26] <tsimonq2> You live and learn, I was extremely blessed to get the knowledge at 12 or 13
[00:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (Thankfully the mess was fixed with a "chmod -R 0755 $HOME", which may have been overkill, but it worked.)
[00:28] <kc2bez[m]> tsimonq2: You keep passing it on though, that is what is most important. 
[00:28] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: Why maintain knowledge you don't have the ability to share? And if you have the ability to share, why not take a few minutes to answer a question if someone asks?
[00:29] <tsimonq2> Sometimes it only takes 5 minutes of welcoming to get a team member that lasts 5 years 
[00:29]  * arraybolt3[m] > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> Sometimes it only takes 5 minutes of welcoming to get a team member that lasts 5 years
[00:29]  * arraybolt3[m] forwards that to guiverc 
[00:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I still remember coming in with some pathetic nick like Guest9 or something, guiverc made it so I was able to get started and is still helping me. I would never have gotten here without him being right there just when I was there.
[00:30] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: Additionally, working with Lubuntu and earning the credentials I did got me the job I currently have. Don't underestimate the little open source hobby project you work on for free, believe me, if you put enough time and effort into it, you'll find a paycheck eventually :)
[00:31] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Plus, this is a fantastic way of donating to a project that has entirely replaced Windows in my life.
[00:31] <tsimonq2> "We're not a cult I swear" XD
[00:51] <tsimonq2> guiverc, Leo K: First off, is there a way you guys can add lubuntu-qa to your highlights so I don't have to ping you both (and others) individually? Anyway, if either of you has a laptop, could you please confirm the battery icon changed from 22.04 to the 22.10 daily?
[00:52] <tsimonq2> (et al.)
[00:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I'm getting ready to do the PPA upload, and it looks like I'm about to need my GPG key. I don't know how to publish the public key to the Ubuntu keyserver, and the instructions are telling me to use a program I don't have installed. How do I do this with command-line tools and a web browser?
[00:56] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It's been years, I apologize. @teward001 / Dan Simmons ?
[00:56] <tsimonq2> (Or ask in #ubuntu if you can't get a quick response here)
[00:58] <kc2bez[m]> Standby, I thought it was in the instructions.
[01:00] <kc2bez[m]> `gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys 12345678`
[01:01] <kc2bez[m]> Obviously replace 12345678
[01:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: It used to be the key IDs were short like that, but that doesn't seem to be the case any longer, and I'm a bit scared of accidentally uploading the private key...
[01:01] <kc2bez[m]> This link here should be your friend. https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey
[01:04] <kc2bez[m]> `gpg - - fingerprint` should give you what you need  
[01:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: I can get my command line output to match that stuff if I use "--keyid-format=short", but I'm worried because I thought that was insecure - other Ubuntu documentation has me using "--keyid-format=long", which gives me different output that doesn't work with those instructions.
[01:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Is it safe for me to pastebin stuff if I blank out anything that looks remotely like a key?
[01:05] <kc2bez[m]> You want the fingerprint 
[01:10] <kc2bez[m]> Your public key should be in a file that has pub or public in the name.
[01:11] <arraybolt3[m]> (If only gpg hadn't changed, this would be so easy...)
[01:11] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I'm going to try to make a new key and follow the guide you sent from scratch, then when I hit the spot where I dunno what it's doing, I'll show you what's gone wrong.
[01:15] <kc2bez[m]> You shouldn't need to make a new key if you have one made.
[01:15] <kc2bez[m]> Standby while I fire up my VM.
[01:17] <arraybolt3[m]> My problem is, when I get to the part where there's supposed to be a key ID, there isn't one. I get to see a big long key that I think...? is the public key, but I'm not entirely sure.
[01:17] <kc2bez[m]> `gpg --list-public-keys`
[01:18] <kc2bez[m]> It is fairly long, yes.
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> That also doesn't give me the key ID, and what's worse is, the big long key I see when I type that is the same key I see when I use --list-secret-keys.
[01:19] <arraybolt3[m]> I have to go afk, sorry.
[01:20] <kc2bez[m]> No worries.
[01:20] <kc2bez[m]> secret-keys works too. Your private key is not displayed
[01:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh OK.
[01:25] <kc2bez[m]> The output of `gpg --list-public-keys` shows that it comes from my pubring.kbx
[01:46] <arraybolt3[m]> So secret key != private key. OK, good to know. Thank you!
[02:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, GPG key uploaded.
[02:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: Thank you!
[02:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: I'll be around for an hour or two since the entire infra for $sidejob is down 
[02:16] <tsimonq2> Can you remind me which pending pull requests you have? I can also look around in a min here 
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I think qtxdg-tools is pending.
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, quick question - how to I configure sbuild to sign my packages? The docs are making it tricky.
[02:16] <tsimonq2> Okay, did we sort the others?
[02:17] <arraybolt3[m]> I believe so.
[02:17] <arraybolt3[m]> liblxqt, libsysstat, and featherpad are all taken care of IIRC.
[02:17] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I don't :) sbuild to verify it builds and straight `debuild -S -d [-sa]` to make just the source package 
[02:17] <arraybolt3[m]> OK... so how do I sign my source.changes file so that dput actually take is?
[02:18] <arraybolt3[m]> s/is/it
[02:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, you're using debuild for making source packages, I get it.
[02:18] <tsimonq2> debuild does that already 
[02:18] <tsimonq2> Yeah, or debsign but that would be redundant :)
[02:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, so how do I configure debuild to sign my packages? :) (My setup is weird, the key exists only on an external USB drive since I didn't LUKS my main drive, but I LUKS'd the USB drive.)
[02:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I don't understand why, but debuild is trying to sign my package with an old key that I got rid of.
[02:36] <tsimonq2> Then the key must still exist somewhere.
[02:36] <tsimonq2> Pass -kKEYID to debuild and it'll work.
[02:36] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[02:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Good grief, that was tricky. I finally figured out to symbolic link the gnugp directory from my flash drive to my home dir, which FINALLY got it to work.
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Uploaded to PPA! Hey, that was fun and <sarcasm>easy</sarcasm>.
[02:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Umm... it only appears to be building for amd64, even though the architechture in the control file is "any". Does it just take some time to pop up, or did I b0rk something?
[03:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Aaaand... I forgot to include the PPA dependency. So now I canceled the build, deleted the package, and now need to wait until I can upload it again.
[03:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (OK, just found out you can't do that, so I bumped the version number.)
[03:05] <arraybolt3[m]> So, why didn't it build for anything except AMD64?
[03:05] <tsimonq2> You're learning :)
[03:05] <tsimonq2> You need to edit that in the web interface
[03:05] <tsimonq2> Has nothing to do with the packaging itself
[03:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Aha! It won't let me select RISC-V, though.
[03:07] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Can I just leave RISC-V out, or do I need to make a totally new PPA for doing everything, and then request that RISC-V be added?
[03:07] <arraybolt3[m]> (Actually, I should make a new PPA anyway, but I would like to know if I can just leave out RISC-V, or who to ask for RISC-V to be enabled.)
[03:08] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah, they won't even let *me* enable RISC-V on *my* PPAs.
[03:08] <tsimonq2> Leave out, you're good
[03:09] <tsimonq2> We won't publish that for backports unless a) someone has hardware and requests it (we then build manually) or b) it gets opened up
[03:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Weird. Wonder why they block that.
[03:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, now it left out armhf and i386 builds for goodness-knows-why (I enabled them), but it's building for everything else!
[03:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Er, no, it is doing armhf, it left out powerpc. So that's good (I was gonna say, hey, people use armhf!)
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Success! Thank you, I now have the deb files for all the architectures, complete with their broken symbols. 🎉
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I need to go eat. I'll be back, thank you!
[04:06] <tsimonq2> Nice!!!
[04:08] <tsimonq2> I SUCK at UI design
[04:08] <tsimonq2> I AM THE WORST
[04:09] <tsimonq2> That being said, here's a little sneak peek of my next pet project... 
[04:10] <tsimonq2> https://ibb.co/LxVw6WK
[04:10] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons: ^^
[04:10] <tsimonq2> Especially interested in someone WHO IS ACTUALLY COMPETENT AT UI DESIGN ahem to help me :)
[04:10] <tsimonq2> ... :P
[04:10] <tsimonq2> Anyway
[04:11] <tsimonq2> It's a fullscreen Qt application
[04:20]  * arraybolt3[m] isn't horrible at UI design.
[04:21] <tsimonq2> https://ibb.co/TvBc4YR
[04:21] <tsimonq2> That's about as far as I'm going to get for now...
[04:21] <tsimonq2> I'll add a license and push my code somewhere so someone else can take a crack at it. Unless someone just has suggestions
[04:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): All you need is a different background, some smaller buttons, a couple of pictures, and maybe a different QT style, and that would look nice. I'll throw some concept art together in GIMP and show you what I mean.
[04:24] <guiverc[m]> arraybolt3[m]: the default wallpaper/background allows it to show the release being installed without hardcoded strings being added don't forget  (or did you mean button backgrounds; if so sorry)
[04:25] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: I meant wallpaper background, I'll have to take that into account.
[04:26] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt
[04:26] <guiverc> it could be a Lubuntu specific image; no problem, but that'll mean another thing that needs changing  (ie. more work) as against using a default image that's changed currently between eleases..
[04:26] <tsimonq2> I've been using Qt Creator
[04:26] <tsimonq2> I NCR'ed the qtcreator in Experimental so I have the latest version installed. May be slightly different for you.
[04:26] <tsimonq2> But there's TONS of docs on Qt Creator.
[04:26] <tsimonq2> I'd say the deadline for this is about... late August. I can push for it harder ifneedbe but I'd like it to be finished up by then.
[04:27] <tsimonq2> (So Backports etc. may have priority; getting our house in order and our users immediately happy so we can then work on R&D)
[04:27] <tsimonq2> I dunno, maybe my rationale is somewhat confusing
[04:28] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I would like to just show you my quick concept. I don't know C++ or QT, but maybe you can take my idea and turn it into code.
[04:28] <guiverc> rationale/logic makes sense to me tsimonq2 
[04:29] <tsimonq2> Anyway, if you want to hack on it and send a PR, go for it.
[04:29] <tsimonq2> I will handle the (excuse my language but it's justified here) Absolute Fuckery that is the ISO tooling to get this to autolaunch in a bare LXQt session... once we're there that is :)
[04:29] <tsimonq2> I will test locally of course, but once it's good it just needs to be packaged and uploaded.
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): All..." <- Sounds good. Or like I said, play with it in Qt Creator
[04:29] <tsimonq2> I know you mentioned you don't know C++... but at this point it's still pretty basic
[04:29] <tsimonq2> You should be able to understand everything that's going on
[04:29] <tsimonq2> Anyway
[04:29] <tsimonq2> I'm going to go AFK for a little bit, probably three or four hours. I'll look at your PR when I come back arraybolt3 
[04:30] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: That is, if you know how to code, which, well, no clue on your background :)
[04:30] <tsimonq2> It should at least be readable at this point
[04:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm not half bad at C# or VBA.
[04:31] <tsimonq2> You should be right at home then. I'm good at reading C++, less good at writing it. I'm moderate-to-perhaps-somewhat-expert level at writing Python but I didn't want the interpreter overhead.
[04:32] <tsimonq2> Maybe if it's something like a welcome center where we have to dynamically load some content anyway... sure.
[04:32] <tsimonq2> But for a basic two-button app it needs to be lean and Just Do The Job ;)
[04:32] <tsimonq2> Eventually I'd also like this application to check specifically for updates to Calamares and our settings. Automatically prompt the user to download and install installer updates if available.
[04:33] <tsimonq2> (Inspiration from that is taken from subiquity, on Ubuntu Server)
[04:33] <tsimonq2> tsimonq2: ^ this kthxbai :)
[04:33] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[04:34] <tsimonq2> guiverc: You seem to be at least somewhat interested... if you could help from the perspective of "I'm a new user, this is what I'd like to see" I'd appreciate it
[04:34] <tsimonq2> And keep this to this channel for now, I'm not snitching to Twitter until it's uploaded ;)
[04:35] <guiverc[m]> ack
[04:35] <tsimonq2> thank you :) absolutely no rush
[04:39] <tsimonq2> Another passing question with no urgent answer time...
[04:39] <tsimonq2> Does lubuntu-update-notifier still work?
[04:39] <tsimonq2> And if it does, is there any room for improvement? 
[04:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, if you hang on for one second, I'll give you a background you might could use (also submitting for the SDDM screen)
[04:39] <tsimonq2> (Is it still Qt 5?
[04:39] <tsimonq2> )
[04:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I'm off my laptop for the night but I'm on mobile :)
[04:41] <arraybolt3[m]> How's this?
[04:41]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (3323KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/BFygitSAMmYhXNVGwGwjcyQC/kinetic-sddm.png >
[04:42] <arraybolt3[m]> It's symmetric, so the buttons should look less out-of-place (especially if you put them in between some of the spaces).
[04:42] <arraybolt3[m]> (I might shoulda shrunk the Lubuntu logo just a bit more...)
[04:44] <arraybolt3[m]> (And a "kinetic" somewhere in the lower-right corner might be nice.)
[04:45] <guiverc[m]> With Lubuntu, i at least think of blue & notice the lack of blue...  I do think the circle/symmetric shape would be more visually appealing though
[04:45] <arraybolt3[m]> That's a good point - both of my submissions have been red, black, and white.
[04:46] <arraybolt3[m]> It would be easy enough to make an "ice-themed" variant, though.
[04:46] <guiverc[m]> (the colors would fit Ubuntu very well)
[04:46] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL <shudder /> I hate their purple overload.
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> But then again I hate yellow, too, and not everyone does.
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (don't tell me there's tons of yellow in my samples)
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]>  * LOL \<shudder /> I'm not a big fan of the amount of purple they use.
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]>  * LOL I'm not a big fan of the amount of purple they use.
[04:50] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I must be tired, because I'm reading over the things I just said that I thought were kinda funny and am unimpressed, so I'm going to delete that now.
 "kinetic-sddm.png" <- My Matrix server is being dumb, can you please use an image paste service so I can see? Pinged the admin
[04:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: We all do it from time to time, consider yourself forgiven (and they can fight with me on it ;))
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks, and sorry.
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): https://ibb.co/jgCrPCk
[04:51] <tsimonq2> All good
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> I think guiverc is right about there not being any blue in it, that should change.
[04:52] <tsimonq2> I like the idea. Excuse me for being pedantic but it should match the colors though :)
[04:52] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I guess what Chris said?
 "With Lubuntu, i at least think..." <- Agreed
[04:53] <tsimonq2> Thanks either way for the initial mockup, not crapping on it at all :)
[04:53] <tsimonq2> Also, perhaps include a button and where the notification for the installer update should be in the UI? No rush 
[04:54] <tsimonq2> s/a/the/, s/button/buttons/
[04:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Good idea.
[04:54] <tsimonq2> I don't know if it should be a popup or part of the window itself.
[04:54] <tsimonq2> Well, think about this...
[04:54] <tsimonq2> KDE Discover has it as a little warning bar at the top
[04:54] <tsimonq2> So we have options here...
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Do we have the ability to animate the buttons (like maybe make it so that the wallpaper appears by itself, then the buttons fly in from the sides)?
[04:55] <tsimonq2> (Maybe a green checkbox for an up to date installer? Perhaps another one for EOL status of the release you're installing?)
[04:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I'd consult Qt docs for that, probably :)
[04:56] <tsimonq2> If you tell me the object type and optionally some optimal arguments (say that 5 times fast) I can implement it 
[04:56] <tsimonq2> I also wonder about low graphics systems 
[04:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I found some random guy on YouTube who managed to make a button float across the screen in Qt5, so it should be doable.
 I can check this on laptops a bit later this am (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> guiverc, Leo K: First off, is there a way you guys can add lubuntu-qa to your highlights so I don't have to ping you both (and others) individually? Anyway, if either of you has a laptop, could you please confirm the battery icon changed from 22.04 to the 22.10 daily?)
[05:25]  * guiverc thinks the try/install having it's own background maybe worthwhile too... using a default image means we need to consider that usage when we select sddm/wallpaper images & lower-res? try-install which will be more work there..  (though that's not dev time)
[05:26]  * guiverc sorry if that makes no sense.. pros & cons with everything as always
[05:27] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: Did this fix the absence of blue?
[05:27]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (3378KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QnvEiKWcsxaGVnyXIBHXSGuv/kinetic-sddm.png >
[05:28] <arraybolt3[m]> IBB link: https://ibb.co/k8SRvdr
[05:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (Man, I keep re-reading my stuff and realizing I sound weird, I was going for "how's this?" thinking this looked nice, now re-reading my message it comes across totally wrong...)
[05:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I have all the symbol files (the buildlogs from the PPA didn't have them, but the debs did), but I'm scared to proceed without your guidance, so I'll wait to continue the backports until tomorrow. Thank you for all your help!
[05:42] <guiverc> First impressing is Wow.. reminds me of our plymouth screen & I like arraybolt3[m],  large contrast in it - but it'll depend how the buttons look on whether or not it'll work
[05:45] <LeoK[m]> Checked laptop battery icons 22.04 /22.10 Simon Quigley (Developer) yes they have chenged - power management looks good 
[05:45] <LeoK[m]> s/chenged/changed/
[05:46] <guiverc> thanks @LeoK[m], i looked but as I rarely use laptops; I didn't detect a change  (not that I was willing to say anything with; it doesn't show on my usual desktops with no battery)
[05:48] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll try to mock up the buttons and pictures in LibreOffice Impress, to get a general idea of what I'm thinking the initial "try or install Lubuntu" screen might look like.
[05:50] <LeoK[m]> guiverc: there is abit of change in the settings for power management - as is 22.10 uses default theme settings but the user can select some new icons if desired
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): I..." <- Keep iterating ;)
 "IBB link: https://ibb.co/k8SRvdr" <- I like it
 "Checked laptop battery icons 22...." <- Positive change in your opinion?
[05:52] <guiverc> thanks... the laptops I was comparing (jammy & kinetic) where in different rooms; thus I gave up walking between them & trying to detect changes..  (don't ask; bad batteries & no handy power point etc)
[05:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Keep iterating - meaning keep going and ask for help now? Or are you done for the night?
[05:53] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Oh I'm awake for a few hours yet, just not at a computer 
[05:53] <tsimonq2> So I'd say keep chugging 
[05:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Oh OK. Then I'll keep plugging away at it. I got five architectures' symbol files, but I only got the symbol files, not the diffs that the buildlogs would have spit out, so... do I just diff each one against the base file from the packaging?
[05:55] <tsimonq2> I would just use the package build logs
[05:55] <tsimonq2> And use `pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch`
[05:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): That's the problem. The PPA builds didn't generate any symbol file diffs in their build logs. (at least s390x didn't).
[05:56] <tsimonq2> If there is no diff, there is nothing to do :)
[05:56] <arraybolt3[m]> s/.//
[05:56] <tsimonq2> As in, yay, congrats, you got it
[05:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Looking at the symbol files, I can see there is something to do (just search for "ubuntu" in the newly generated symbol files and...)
[05:56] <arraybolt3[m]> (...boom, bad symbols.)
[05:56] <arraybolt3[m]> (Bad as in "has the "0ubuntu7" or whatever on the end)
[05:56] <tsimonq2> Makes sense 
[05:57] <tsimonq2> So keep iterating ;)
[05:57] <tsimonq2> Next step is to remove that suffix and see if it works, yeah?
[05:57] <tsimonq2> (And the Debian revision, just leave the upstream version)
[05:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, but I have five different architectures that may have varying symbols, and I need one master symbol file I thought.
[05:59] <arraybolt3[m]> So my thinking was, diff the master against each architecture's symbol files, then batchpatch, and that should update the master with all of the symbols from all of the architectures.
[06:02] <arraybolt3[m]> 🤦‍♂️I couldn't find the symbols in the logs, not because they weren't there, but because I was searching the page for "lintian" and not "symbols" for reasons only my past brain will fully understand. OK, use the logs it is!
[06:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, so now do I upload to the PPA again, now that I have the symbols file patched?
[06:22] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess it can't hurt to do another sbuild locally, just to see what happens.)
[06:28] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, so that didn't work.
[06:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I did the batchpatch, then tried an sbuild and got this explosion: https://pastebin.com/cRxLScGk
[06:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I just ran "pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch -v 1.1.0 *.symbols" in the libfm-qt-packaging directory (I had moved five symbols patch files in there), then did a test sbuild. Obviously that wasn't the right way to do it, but what did I miss?
[06:32] <tsimonq2> Not sure from mobile 
[06:32] <guiverc> @leokolb, I've a kinetic live running, I've connected wifi & at qterminal run `sudo apt update` & packages are available for update... I've not yet had lubuntu-update-notifier tell me updates are available; do you find the same  (tsimonq2 asked earlier from memory)
[06:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I see the diff that sbuild spits out at me has stuff about missing symbols, and I can see something in the docs about bumping the SONAME of a library if that happens, but the symbols file doesn't have any MISSING lines in it.
[06:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Small snippet of the exploding output that looks like part of the problem:
[06:36] <arraybolt3[m]> - (arch=!riscv64|subst)_ZN2Fm12FolderConfig9setUint64EPKc{uint64_t}@Base 1.1.0
[06:36] <arraybolt3[m]> + _ZN2Fm12FolderConfig9setUint64EPKcm@Base 1.1.0-0ubuntu7~ppa1
[06:36] <arraybolt3[m]> +#MISSING: 1.1.0-0ubuntu7~ppa1# (arch=!riscv64|subst)_ZN2Fm12FolderConfig9setUint64EPKc{uint64_t}@Base 1.1.0
[06:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (Top one has a -, bottom two have +)
[06:39] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: I've several times booted the live ISO and never had a Lubuntu update notifier pop up. (I'm not leokolb)
[06:39] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: And I've had updates available.
[06:40] <tsimonq2> > <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> Simon Quigley (Developer): Small snippet of the exploding output that looks like part of the problem:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/854fbfc89f5e894739f1f994b8e244dd68df02f0)
[06:40] <tsimonq2> Tbh I forgot 
[06:40] <tsimonq2> That may be the key to your answer 
[06:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh OK. (Didn't even notice it)
[06:40] <tsimonq2> (I'd have to ref docs)
[06:40] <guiverc> thanks arraybolt3[m]; that maybe confirmation tsimonq2 lubuntu-update-notifier does need some work..  (i manually update my primary kinetic system so I'd not notice it on my main box)... the live is still running so I'll see if notification appears
[06:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: All good
[06:41] <tsimonq2> That's honestly the only human readable thing lol
[06:41] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: Maybe the ISO needs to run sudo apt update after bootup? (That might be a strain on users with a metered Internet connection.)
[06:41] <tsimonq2> guiverc: Try to see if e.g. a stock 22.04 no-network install pops it up after network is attached. If it doesn't, see if you can manually launch it 
[06:41] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: LOL
[06:41] <tsimonq2> I forget what exactly triggers it 
[06:41] <guiverc> I ran that manually (so I could confirm updates were available)... yet I've still not had the lubuntu-update-notifier tell me updates are ready
[06:42] <tsimonq2> Maybe we need a systemd service 
[06:42] <tsimonq2> hmm
[06:42] <tsimonq2> Something to fix 
[06:42] <arraybolt3[m]> In all my years of installing Lubuntu I've never seen that window pop up when booting a live ISO.
[06:42] <tsimonq2> How long has that been broken and when it gets fixed can we write a test case for it please?
[06:42] <guiverc> do you want/need something to track?  discourse, bug report etc? or happy just noted here..
[06:43] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: I'd guess at least since Focal.
[06:43] <tsimonq2> guiverc: I'd say file a bug against it and figure out which release it stops working st 
[06:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (That's the first LXQt Lubuntu distro I used. Easy enough to verify in a VM.)
[06:43] <tsimonq2> * I'd say file a bug against it and figure out which release it stops working at
[06:43] <guiverc> I believe it was working with focal.. testing it makes most sense on the 'live' test in my opinion  
[06:43] <guiverc> ack tsimonq2 
[06:44] <arraybolt3[m]> guiverc: Hmm, then I might be wrong. My internet connectivity was far from elite back then, I have much better service now.
[06:44]  * tsimonq2 is glad guiverc is an aussie- testing happens when I'm asleep for the stuff I broke when I was awake ;D
[06:45] <tsimonq2> (That's why I randomly tweeted one time that I'd like some Australian team members like three years back ;P)
 "> <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> Simon..." <- So far I know that it's a non-standard symbol tag.
[07:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): That's as much as I can find. I'm using Google, I'm looking at the docs, I'm skimming the Debian Policy manual, nothing. "subst" is just... gone. Maybe that's part of the problem - it may used to have meant something and is now no longer supported? 🤷‍♂️
[07:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Finally! Found some obscure patch in a buried Debian bug report discovered from some random mailing list thread that had the subst tag documentation. (Good grief, was that ever buried!)
[07:07] <guiverc> tsimonq2, you can ignore the lubuntu-update-notififer... default is 86400 is something secs, ie. 24 hours...   & it works in impish anyway (when changed to wait only 60 secs... will re-test jammy/kinetic at 60 secs)
[07:08]  * guiverc is still looking at lubuntu-update-notifier
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Here's where I found info about "subst": https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=533916
[07:11] <arraybolt3[m]> The patch in there has the info about how it behaves, and I think I understand exactly what's happening here.
[07:12] <arraybolt3[m]> The symbol in each of these "subst" lines *is different depending on what architecture you build on.*
[07:14] <arraybolt3[m]> So I possibly did something wrong that's resulted in the necessary symbol for each architecture to not be seamlessly merged in.
[07:40] <guiverc> lubuntu-update-notifier works for me in jammy & impish, not kinetic though... bug report updated
[07:43] <guiverc> yeah @Leokolb; my power indicator has gone orange & looks 'weird' to me... I think the 'weird' is change!  (weird my eyesight; icon reminds me of a VLC logo)
[08:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, here's my mock-up of how the install screen might look. I made it a Google Slides thingy since I was on my Chromebook when I made it. Click the screen to see the animations (the "Try Lubuntu" and "Install Lubuntu" buttons fly in, one after the other). https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WnKCH9wEGAWpV9tIaMlG-CxTk1k_h-ZcDjyYuNrLETE/edit?usp=sharing
[08:15] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh, you do have to press the little "Slideshow" button in the upper-right corner, too.)
[08:27] <tsimonq2> I think the positioning and sizing is perfect 
[08:27] <tsimonq2> The colors may need to be tweaked a little further... I'm getting DVD player vibes :)
[08:27] <tsimonq2> I love it though- we're almost there 
[08:28] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL yeah the hard-edged buttons didn't quite do it for me either.
[08:28] <tsimonq2> Well, the easy part at least :P
[08:28] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Probably better once you get to an actual graphics suite and not the program I used for my biology presentation in 9th grade :P
[08:29] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[08:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Google Slides you mean?
[08:29] <tsimonq2> I mean, it's definitely good for basic presentations 
[08:29] <tsimonq2> And if that's what you have to work with, it does the job, so it's okay
[08:29] <arraybolt3[m]> I was tired, and my Chromebook had it.
[08:29] <tsimonq2> But yes it definitely looks like a DVD player LMAO
[08:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (I was gonna do it in Impress, which probably would have worked way better, plus the buttons I made in GIMP could use some bevel.)
[08:30] <tsimonq2> We should have that only activate on April 1st, the mockup of that :P
[08:30] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I'm messing with you, I too am very tired :)
[08:30] <arraybolt3[m]> With a notice that you're about to install Lubuntu GNU/Hurd, right?
[08:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Or Lubuntu BSD?
[08:30] <tsimonq2> LMAOOO
[08:30] <tsimonq2> I mean...
[08:30] <tsimonq2> :P
[08:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess it would be LGNU/Hurd at that point - wow just try to pronounce THAT!)
[08:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or GNU/LHurd)
[08:32] <tsimonq2> Very short tangent, I was at SELF a few weeks ago and this guy named Keith Myers made an entire Linux distro called Soccer Mom Linux. Replaced sudo commands and such. sudo apt install became something like manager now because I know the owner foo bar
[08:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Anyway, you get the idea, even if that's far from production. No one ever ran a server off Windows 3.1.
[08:33] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Technically possible for us to do such a thing. I would only publish it as an April Fools prank, no freaking way :P
[08:33] <tsimonq2> (Or the BSD kernel but at that point I don't even know what you're doing.)
[08:33] <arraybolt3[m]> "Welcome to l'GNU/Hurd! This application will ask you several question and then install Virus on your computer."
[08:33] <arraybolt3[m]> (OK, that might be a bit overkill.)
[08:34] <arraybolt3[m]> (LineageOS tried something like that once, it didn't go over well.)
[08:34] <tsimonq2> Okay, okay, and the cherry on top...
[08:34] <tsimonq2> Bring back Redneck as the default dialect of English
[08:34] <tsimonq2> (Have you seen the old RHEL screenshots?)
[08:35] <arraybolt3[m]> No, did they have a prank built-in?
[08:35] <tsimonq2> Yeah. You could also submit translations for it 
[08:35] <tsimonq2> Amazing running joke 
[08:36] <tsimonq2> Anyway, I can barely keep my eyes open, let alone talk you through symbols ;)
[08:36]  * tsimonq2 uses the remote to turn off the DVD player
[08:36] <tsimonq2> (Too much? :P)
[08:36] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. We'll pick it up tomorrow. I'll revise the mock-up so that it's not quite so bad.
[08:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (No, not too much. It's funny.)
[08:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (We could even make the Lubuntu logo spin and advertise that it has a "JeOS" mode.)
[08:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (Awful lot of work for an April Fool's day prank, though.)
[08:38] <tsimonq2> Come to SELF next year and meet Keith. You will eat your words :)
[08:38] <arraybolt3[m]> I believe it. The level of work people will go to, to make something silly, can be extreme.
[08:38] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean, that's how Linux was born.
[08:39] <arraybolt3[m]> One random Finnish student goofing off on his new PC, came up with FREAX, the guy hosting his kernel gave him a folder called "Linux" to upload to, and the rest is history.
[08:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Now here we are over 30 years later making a functional OS off of it.
[08:40] <arraybolt3[m]> (Even the name "UNIX" is a joke, made to be the opposite of "Multics".)
[08:41] <tsimonq2> May I ask how old you are or perhaps an age range? I'm 20
[08:41] <tsimonq2> (Kind of helps me put into context "first computer" type stuff)
[08:41] <arraybolt3[m]> That's about where I'm at. First computer was an old Windows 95 from my dad's workplace. I slaughtered that system.
[08:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (Deleted stuff out of System32, never could get the DVD player to work again, not even years later.)
[08:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Most of the stuff I did was on Windows 2000. I didn't get an XP system for looong, then went to Vista for a while, then to 7 for a short while, then found Linux, tried to live with Windows 8, then went full-force into Linux and haven't looked back since.
[08:45] <arraybolt3[m]> I got into Linux late. I wish I had known about it years before, but hey, I'm here now!
[08:47] <tsimonq2> Nice! :)
[08:47] <tsimonq2> Sorry, playing with the kittens
 "(Deleted stuff out of System32..." <- Actually, wasn't a DVD player, it was a CD-ROM drive. I must have my Lubuntu mockup still stuck in my head.
[08:48] <tsimonq2> I remember Windows XP as my first real desktop OS
[08:48] <tsimonq2> We tried Vista and my parents hated it...
[08:48] <tsimonq2> I switched after breaking Windows 7 too many times ;)
[08:48] <tsimonq2> Anyway, I should get some shuteye
[08:48] <arraybolt3[m]> I remember wishing I could use it. I was dangerous around computers in my youth, so my parents wisely kept me a fair distance away until I could be trusted.
[08:49] <tsimonq2> Nice talking to you arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org :)
[08:49] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I'll probably see you tomorrow! Thanks for everything!
[08:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Fair enough lmao 
[08:49] <kc2bez[m]> Morning 👋
[08:49] <tsimonq2> Oh hey early riser :)
[08:49] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Right?
[08:49] <guiverc> :)
[08:49] <tsimonq2> I guess not everyone has to be Australian XD
[08:50] <tsimonq2> Oh and I guess the Brits are getting up now too
[08:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: Hey, we're testing a new Calamares, I'm six installs into the testing checklist, so if you do testing on that end, pick up on item 7.
[08:50] <arraybolt3[m]> So far everything works.
[08:50] <kc2bez[m]> Nice
[08:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: Also, we're working on a UI for choosing "Try Lubuntu" or "Install Lubuntu" when you boot the live ISO. Simon made a mock-up and a GitHub repo, I made a mock-up as a DVD-player-looking Google Slides doc, so that might be interesting to look at.
[08:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: And good morning to you also! (Maybe one day I'll remember to say that first...)
[08:52] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I saw that, I like it. 
[08:55] <kc2bez[m]> I am not sure if I will have a chance to do any testing today. I am off to work here in a few and then a graduation tonight.
[08:55] <arraybolt3[m]> kc2bez[m]: Congrats!
[08:57] <kc2bez[m]> It isn't my graduation ;) 
[08:57] <kc2bez[m]> My daughter is graduating from high school.
[08:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh. Someone I work with decided to go to college recently, so that was the context my brain was working with. (He's middle-aged.)
[08:59] <kc2bez[m]> I work at a college so I've been to many there too.
[09:03] <kc2bez[m]> Anyway, I noticed folks are having issues with update-notifier? It refreshes the apt cache every 24 hours unless you do that manually it might not know about updates.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Afternoon 
 simon i am almost ready to let us use our gitea now for all our repos btw
 so you better be ready for mass transfer soon xD
 just got to get the ssh stuff moved over
[22:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): You around?
 "[telegram] <teward001> so you..." <- HURRY HURRY HURRY
[22:40] <tsimonq2> XD
[22:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Possibly. Sup?
[22:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Just wondering how to progress with the symbol explosion nightmare from yesterday.
[22:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I found the documentation for "subst" - it appears it didn't end up fully standardized or something?
 "Finally! Found some obscure..." <- Simon Quigley (Developer)
[22:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great, that wasn't the link...
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): Here..." <- There's the link.
[22:41]  * arraybolt3[m] needs to look a little bit closer next time
[22:42] <tsimonq2> Maybe just... remove that part of it?
[22:42] <arraybolt3[m]> At any rate, it's not in any of the official docs, so I get the feeling that we may need to tweak the symbols manually to cope with this... which could be tricky.
[22:42] <tsimonq2> At this point you're in #ubuntu-devel territory :)
[22:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, the problem is, there's the "subst" symbol, and then there's also a placeholder in the symbol that changes depending on the build architecture.
[22:43] <arraybolt3[m]> So I'd need to change it to something like (amd64) symbolabc followed by (!amd64) symbolabd.
[22:43] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, guess I'll take it there. Whew, this could be tricky. I'm guessing symbols do't usually do this?
[22:45] <tsimonq2> They make my brain hurt lol
[22:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Mine too :)
[23:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Mystery cracked! Our master symbols file is bad. It turns out it's what's loaded with those "subst" tags, and they all need to be cleaned up and replaced with architecture-specific tags and symbols. Looks like it should be fairly easy.
[23:35] <tsimonq2> Alright, finally at a computer
 "Mystery cracked! Our master..." <- Cool!
[23:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I think pkgkde-symbolshelper is emitting non-standard symbol tags (vorlon on #ubuntu-devel mentioned that, I agree with him).
[23:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Sooo... Simon Quigley (Developer) Are there any tools *other than* pkgkde-symbolshelper for mass symbol patching?
[23:43] <tsimonq2> Not as far as I know
[23:44] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess that means I have to manually fix it.
[23:49] <tsimonq2> I guess so, unfortunately
[23:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, this isn't actually so hard. Kinda slow, kinda tedious, but not horribly difficult.
[23:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Feels like editing machine code...