[00:19] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Uploaded new cala-settings-ubu to fix the problem.
[00:19] <Eickmeyer> Took me 5 minutes.
[00:21] <Eickmeyer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares-settings-ubuntu/1:22.10.8
[00:23] <Eickmeyer> Should've sync'd back to phab too.
[00:23] <Eickmeyer> Rather, I did, so you should have my commits.
[00:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): So, I think I have a bit of a problem. I'm backporting lxqt-qtplugin, but I don't have libfm-qt-dev available, which is a build dependency for lxqt-qtplugin. My system won't pull from my "local PPA" (apt-cacher-ng at work again?), the package doesn't exist in the Lubuntu Backports Staging PPA, and for some reason my personal PPA isn't signed, and I can't use it in sbuild (without using [trusted=yes],
[00:52] <arraybolt3[m]> which seems quite dangerous to me when using plain HTTP). What do I do?
[00:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Info on how to sign a PPA would probably get me up and running.
[00:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, both libfm-qt and lxqt-themes are backported and ready to be looked over and potentially merged.
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): So, I..." <- Nevermind, finally fixed it. Had to start the python3 HTTP server as root and set it to port 80 rather than 8000, that made apt-cacher-ng happy.
[02:40] <tsimonq2> o/
[02:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: you good?
[02:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, you're here!
[02:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, finally got the mess with libfm-qt fixed on my end, and I think it's ready to merge. So is lxqt-themes (though check over the PR first).
[02:41] <tsimonq2> Could you please link me to all the PRs you want looked at?
[02:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, one moment...
[02:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): https://github.com/lubuntu-team/libfm-qt-packaging/pull/1 and https://github.com/lubuntu-team/lxqt-themes-packaging/pull/1
[02:43] <tsimonq2> okay looking :)
[02:48] <tsimonq2> In the process of uploading libfm-qt to the PPA now
[02:51] <tsimonq2> Ditto with lxqt-themes
[02:51] <tsimonq2> Really getting the hang of it, nice job :)
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> You taught me a lot. Thank you!
[02:52] <tsimonq2> Of course :)
[02:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, is there some way to put a note on how to make apt-cacher-ng play nice with local PPAs? That threw me for a loop getting it sorted out.
[02:53] <arraybolt3[m]> (The SimpleSBuild manual says in the local PPA setup instructions to run a python3 HTTP server on port 8000 to serve the local PPA's packages. apt-cacher-ng hates that. If you start the server with sudo and set it to port 80, it's happy.)
[02:53] <tsimonq2> Where do you have acng set up, in an apt.conf.d file or are you straight accessing it through the proxy?
[02:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I have no clue how it's set up. I tried disabling and even uninstalling it, and sbuild insisted on trying to use it.
[02:54] <tsimonq2> I don't think it's necessary to forward those connections through apt-cacher-ng
[02:54] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm guessing my schroot must be hardwired to use it.
[02:54] <tsimonq2> Both are still storing packaged on your disk, I mean, it's not like it makes any differences besides now you've added the overhead of moving it ;)
[02:54] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I'd do some Wabbit Hunting.
[02:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah but when you can't figure out how to get around apt-cacher, good luck with that.
[02:54] <tsimonq2> "No, it's duck season!"
[02:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Fair enough :)
[02:55] <arraybolt3[m]> But we're in GNU territory don't you know.
[02:55] <tsimonq2> That involves figuring out how it was set up in the first place
[02:55] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: the wild GNU/Hurd/West ;P
[02:56] <arraybolt3[m]> I even tried tracing my steps through both Ubuntu and Debian's sbuild manuals, no dice. Could not get apt-cacher-ng disabled.
[02:56] <tsimonq2> o_O
[02:56] <arraybolt3[m]> (If I disabled it with systemctl or sudo apt remove, that b0rked sbuild entirely.)
[02:56] <tsimonq2> So, how are you measuring "enabled" precisely?
[02:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Enabled, as in, sbuild tries to get apt packages from it.
[02:56] <tsimonq2> And is it in your .sbuildrc or does it work for a chroot in e.g. a different release?
[02:57] <arraybolt3[m]> It's definitely not in .sbuildrc (checked there... twice...), and both my chroots were set up with it fully functional. I didn't try building a new chroot yet, and I saw something about chroots being configured to use apt-cacher in the Debian manual, so I think that's probably where my culprit was.
[02:58] <tsimonq2> Perhaps.
[02:58] <tsimonq2> Not sure though.
[02:58] <arraybolt3[m]> But, really, having a local PPA for some packages and apt-cacher for everything else is handy, and I don't know how to say, "Use apt-cacher, except not when you're accessing 127.0.0.1."
[02:58] <tsimonq2> There is a way to make it work. :)
[02:58] <tsimonq2> Well, do you have apt-cacher-ng only running on 127.0.0.1?
[02:59] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know, but that's most certainly the IP it was accessing according to the logs (if I'm reading them right).
[02:59] <arraybolt3[m]> I just did what SimpleSBuild said to do.
[02:59] <arraybolt3[m]> When setting it up.
[03:00] <tsimonq2> That could be your issue. I can certainly imagine issues regarding scope.
[03:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm. Maybe. What I don't get it why apt-cacher kept giving me 403 Configuration Error errors when trying to access my local PPA on port 8000.
[03:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (Especially when it's usually 403 Forbidden, not 403 Configuration Error...)
[03:01] <tsimonq2> Here's what I do...
[03:01] <tsimonq2> I always work at home and when I'm not I'm connected to my VPN, always. I have my 10.x.y.z hardcoded in there instead of 127.0.0.1
[03:02] <tsimonq2> It will just take some experimentation with your local setup, unfortunately. If this was $dayjob I'd just remote in and fix it for you, this place doesn't pay me enough ;)
[03:02] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL
[03:03] <arraybolt3[m]> That's an idea, have apt-cacher on a different IP. Not sure how that would work, but whatever. I have a working setup for now.
[03:05]  * tsimonq2 works on some Debian packages, just the basics, not the full 9 yards of addressing Lintian stuff, yet...
[03:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): https://github.com/lubuntu-team/lxqt-qtplugin-packaging/pull/1 Whenever you get around to it, lxqt-qtplugin, backported.
[03:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, the bridge was down at the time, but Simon Quigley (Developer) , I got you a present: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares-settings-ubuntu/1:22.10.8
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): https..." <- On it.
 "So, the bridge was down at the..." <- Thank you!
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): https..." <- Uploading + one pedantic fix :)
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Whatever needed fixed, lmk and I'll try to avoid leaving it to need fixed in the future.
[03:31] <tsimonq2> Just a small wrap-and-sort changelog entry to explain your one-line seemingly unrelated changelog diff.
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Odd, wrap-and-sort never did anything. I'll figure out what went wrong.
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like, I ran wrap-and-sort, then did git add -A then git commit, and was told nothing had changed.)
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (So it must be something else.)
[03:33] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/releases/tag/v3.3.0-alpha1
[03:33]  * tsimonq2 packages
[03:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Must've been my removing whitespace, I'm guessing. I didn't think it was worth a changelog entry, but if it is, I'll know better for next time.
[03:34] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Neat!
[03:41] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/3.3.0-alpha1-0ubuntu1
[03:41] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: ^^^^^^
[03:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> An alpha upload??
[03:47] <arraybolt3[m]> We've been using pre-alpha Calamares in Lubuntu for a while, which has propagated to Ubuntu Studio, so alpha is actually an upgrade.
[03:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> That makes sense. I guess I haven't been keeping up because I've been stuck in the land of Ubiquity with Kubuntu in $dayjob lately.
[03:54] <tsimonq2> I mean, has anyone reported installer issues? ;)
[03:54]  * arraybolt3[m] has flashbacks of Boost.Python errors and my first experience with Quilt
[04:04] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: BTW, I don't want to make you feel like you're the only one backporting but I think getting the experience and getting it down is good for you at this stage. Let me know if at any point you want me to knock out a few packages.
[04:04] <tsimonq2> I'm just rolling with it and letting you take the lead tbh :)
[04:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, I'm fine with it. I'm learning a lot, and will probably keep learning the more I do. If you'd like to do some for the sake of speed, go for it, but I'm happy to do it.
[04:06] <tsimonq2> Sounds good. I'd like to have it done before the sprint so if you get to a point where you can't find the time just let me know :)
[04:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Lintian gripe "I: obconf-qt: desktop-entry-lacks-keywords-entry usr/share/applications/obconf-qt.desktop", can be safely ignored?
[04:21] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yes but what is it?
[04:22] <arraybolt3[m]> There's an entry for Desktop files called "Keywords" which has extra metadata (for finding the application? Not sure there). Lintian believes it's missing in the desktop file for obconf-qt (not verified that yet, but I'd assume it's right). My thinking is, "OK, who cares?"
[04:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (I looked up the tag in Lintian and also googled the Desktop File Specification for more info before asking, just wanted to make sure my logic was good.)
[04:23] <tsimonq2> Sounds good, go for it :)
[04:23] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[04:24] <tsimonq2> Protip: even if you're moving fast, always have a rationale for what you're doing in case you get an IRC ping much like Erich's conversation in #ubuntu-release today ;)
[04:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. Also, not in that channel, will join.
[04:25] <tsimonq2> So until you hit Developer I might randomly ask :P
[04:25] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: It's a good one to be in, not a good one to say a peep in as a beginner unless we're working with transitions (I'll work with you and others on the next LXQt release)
[04:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Good hint, will stay quiet there.
[04:26] <arraybolt3[m]> What... is the channel? I can't figure out the topic from the channel topic...
[04:26] <tsimonq2> Just stuff directly related to release management for ISOs and packages, and archive management, plus transitions. The rest goes in devel :)
[04:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh finally. Kinetic Release Coordination. They buried it in the middle of the topic line.
[04:27] <tsimonq2> Can confirm you're in the right one 
[04:28] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I'm dealing with a Debian Standards-Version bump, and I'm not sure what I'm looking at in the manual.
[04:28] <arraybolt3[m]> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.html#version-4-5-1
[04:29] <arraybolt3[m]> How do I check to see if obconf-qt is already doing that, and if not, how do I implement it? Install file?
[04:29] <tsimonq2> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.html#version-4-6-1
[04:29] <tsimonq2> Okay which part
[04:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (It's currently at 4.5.0, I'm working my way up.)
[04:29] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: 4.5.1 copyright stuff
[04:30] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess the change appears more permissive, not more strict, so I can probably assume we're doing it right already if we're compliant with 4.5.0.
[04:30] <tsimonq2> Ok so when running sbuild at the tail end of the build log when it's listing files for each binary does it show the COPYRIGHT file being installed?
[04:31] <tsimonq2> I'd assume this already happens automatically, dunno 
[04:31] <tsimonq2> Nice job going through the checklist btw :)
[04:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Looking...
[04:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm. It's installing the copyright file for obconf-qt-l10n, but not for obconf-qt (that I can see).
[04:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Wait, looking at wrong data...
[04:33] <arraybolt3[m]> (Well, yes, of course it's only showing stuff for obconf-qt-l10n, because you're looking at the obconf-qt-l10n section! Scroll down, Aaron.)
[04:34] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: I believe it is installing it.
[04:34] <arraybolt3[m]> It's listed in the package contents section of the sbuild log.
[04:34] <tsimonq2> What's the full path of that file?
[04:34] <arraybolt3[m]> ./usr/share/doc/obconf-qt/copyright
[04:35] <arraybolt3[m]> And ./usr/share/doc/obconf-qt-l10n/copyright
[04:35] <arraybolt3[m]> So they're right where Debian wants them if I'm understanding correctly.
[04:35] <tsimonq2> So you're compliant I think, do you concur?
[04:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Yep. Now I know how to check for that, thank you!
[04:40] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: If you're up for a roller coaster, try merging my libqtxdg change from Debian (so the versioning would be 1.1.0-1ubuntu1 or similar). Basically figure out what the Ubuntu delta is and apply that Ubuntu delta to the latest Debian upload. If we can drop all changes in our packaging, that's an option too.
[04:40] <tsimonq2> I can also tackle this one and document it for you.
[04:40] <tsimonq2> Your call.
[04:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll try it as soon as I'm done with obconf-qt.
[04:43] <tsimonq2> https://tracker.debian.org/libqtxdg - links for e.g. Debian GitLab if you want to upstream changes (I can upload to Debian). I uploaded it to experimental
[04:43] <tsimonq2> I'm not sure how familiar you are with Debian, but think of it as an LTS Ubuntu (only released once every year or more). Debian Stable is "LTS", Debian Testing is akin to kinetic (the Release pocket), Debian Unstable is akin to kinetic-proposed
[04:44] <arraybolt3[m]> I've used Debian quite a bit since I have a Raspberry Pi - Raspbian is to Debian what Pop!_OS is to Ubuntu if I'm understanding correctly. I've also fiddled with Debian in VMs, and it just seems like Ubuntu but more... old-ish.
[04:44] <arraybolt3[m]> (More committed to stability and willing to use old stuff for far long far even in the newest stable release.)
[04:44] <tsimonq2> Yes, and Raspbian is to Debian kind of what Ubuntu is to Debian
[04:45] <tsimonq2> Definitely a good choice if you NEED NOTHING to break and don't care about simplicity
[04:46] <arraybolt3[m]> So it's like halfway between Ubuntu and Arch. Ubuntu is kinda breakable but simple. Debian is unbreakable but tricky, and Arch is really tricky and fragile as a spider web. Got it 👍️
[04:46] <tsimonq2> Sounds about right, give or take some weird or exceptional package maintainers. :P
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (Really, in my experience, Debian wasn't all that tricky, though maybe that's just because I like my Ubuntu on hard mode.)
[04:47] <tsimonq2> teward: Can we create specific subgroups in Gitea with repos?
[04:47] <tsimonq2> Or does everyone in Lubuntu just have commit access?
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> arraybolt3[m]: (Not bashing Arch, it has some seriously good uses, and I learned a LOT during my brief stint with it, it's just... a tad too "NOOOO... well, crud, let's start over" for my liking.)
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): https://github.com/lubuntu-team/obconf-qt-packaging/pull/1
[04:53] <tsimonq2> LGTM will merge shortly (< 1 hour)
[04:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh no. A symbols file. Again.
[04:54]  * arraybolt3[m] takes deep breath before diving into libqtxdg
[04:54] <tsimonq2> Have fun :)
[04:54] <tsimonq2> (Psst, I already did the symbols update in this one, calm down 🤣)
[04:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK. And I'm sorry.
[04:55] <tsimonq2> Nah I'm joking with you don't be sorry :)
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> (No, I mean I'm sorry you had to do that :-P)
[04:55] <tsimonq2> Bahahahahaha
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> So... what link do I click? The page you linked me to has like eight million links on it and none of the ones I've tried so far was the "download source code" link.
[04:56] <tsimonq2> https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/libqtxdg
[04:56] <tsimonq2> Git (Browse, ..)
[04:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. GitLab I can wrangle a bit.
[04:57] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also, I think I found the link on the tracker page...)
[04:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope, wrong link. OK, glad you gave me the GitLab thing.
[04:57] <tsimonq2> Repo isn't directly transferable though, so you can use it to propose changes but keep the repos separate please :) (unless you can change to another branch and lose all that GBP garbage)
[04:59] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, so what am I doing? I thought I was taking the latest Debian packaging and applying the changes to the latest Ubuntu packaging (ala sync-to-archive).
[04:59] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm getting confused, why do I want the source code if I'm dealing with packaging? I'm confusing myself...)
[05:00] <tsimonq2> Yes and no...
[05:02] <tsimonq2> So let's say package foo has Debian version 1.1.0-1. Ubuntu uploads a 1.1.0-1ubuntu1 version, the diff between the two versions is called the Ubuntu delta. If Debian uploads 1.2.0-1, to merge from Debian you apply the Ubuntu delta to the base Debian version
[05:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Is this with source code, or packaging?
[05:03] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm envisioning two different scenarios: either a) get Ubuntu's packaging, get Debian's older packaging, debdiff, get Debian's newer packaging, then apply the debdiff (or manually sort through it). Or b) do the same thing, but with the source code, if Ubuntu made source code changes in the package.
[05:04] <tsimonq2> Ignore the source code 
[05:04] <tsimonq2> I'd say completely remove it until you get to patches 
[05:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, because the Debian source has the packaging built in. Alright, this is new.
[05:05] <arraybolt3[m]> So once the packaging is all correct, then 
[05:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (Meant to hit backspace, not Enter, so now you know what the insides of my brain were doing!)
[05:06] <tsimonq2> Your goal when merging the delta is less to evaluate the new upstream release and more to evaluate the changes between Debian and Ubuntu and why they exist 
[05:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. I'm still a bit baffled as to what changes might exist, but I'll figure that out once I see them.
[05:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): For now, git clone it is. Should I use the libqtxdg packaging in the Lubuntu GitHub, or should I use pull-lp-source? Does it matter?
[05:12] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also, I'm noticing that the libqtxdg-packaging in lubuntu-team is somewhat old, and I remember you saying you didn't do Lintian checks on it, so should I clean up Lintian on the Ubuntu side first, then start finding the differences?)
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): For..." <- They *should* be identical...
[05:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Sorry if I'm bugging you too much, but I'm stuck. The current version of libqt5xdg in Ubuntu is 3.9.1-0ubuntu1. So I don't know what Debian package to get to find the delta to apply to the new one.
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Then work back to an Ubuntu version with a common upstream base 
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Find the differences between the latest packaging version for the common release 
[05:17] <tsimonq2> Then inspect the packaging changes for both leading up to the current versions 
[05:17] <tsimonq2> I said roller coaster didn't I? ;)
[05:18] <arraybolt3[m]> So I need the packaging for an older Ubuntu version? (Just making sure I get it.)
[05:18] <tsimonq2> Yes
[05:19] <tsimonq2> And perhaps the Debian version previously in Experimental
[05:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. So compare Ubuntu old with Debian old, get the diff, then compare it with Debian new and see how it makes sense compared to the difference between Debian new and Ubuntu new, and say that five times fast?
[05:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Wow. The closest one in common it 3.6.0, over a year old.
[05:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Just making sure this is right. I have Debian's libqtxdg 3.6.0-1, and Ubuntu's libqtxdg-packaging 3.6.0-1ubuntu3. Are these the right ones to be comparing to begin with?
[05:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (They're the newest version in common.)
[05:29] <arraybolt3[m]> (Other than the one you just uploaded.)
[05:31] <arraybolt3[m]> s/it/is/
[05:34] <tsimonq2> Yeah, and just work your way back up
[05:35] <tsimonq2> You could also just diff the two latest packaging directories, that may even be easier at this point...
[05:35] <arraybolt3[m]> That's smart, debdiff is giving me grief.
[05:35] <arraybolt3[m]> (Actually, it's debuild -S -d -sa and uscan that's giving me grief, but whatever. Just trying to get a source package, no need if I use diff.)
[05:39] <tsimonq2> Feel free to submit changes upstream and downstream. Evaluate previous merges from Debian for other packages (e.g. calamares) to see the process
[05:39] <tsimonq2> Lmk if you have questions 
[05:39] <tsimonq2> I'm going to nap for a bit 
[05:39] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I'll see if I can figure this out. Thank you!
[05:40] <tsimonq2> Of course :)
[05:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I'm obviously lost. I've got the delta (I think?), but I can't figure out why things are different between Ubuntu and Debian, I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at with the diff output, and I can't find any of the other merges you were talking about in GitHub (which is the only place I can think of to look atm). I think I'll wait until tomorrow to try this, so I can keep asking questions until
[05:47] <arraybolt3[m]> something clicks. Thanks again!
 define 'subgroups' in a quantitative easier explained way (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> teward: Can we create specific subgroups in Gitea with repos?)
 subgroups of developers would be different teams
 "[telegram] <teward001> subgroups..." <- That about answers my question
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): I'm..." <- This may help you...... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/0b448a69d22a621df6bb8b6e69643bbef8574f37)
[17:15] <arraybolt3[m]> That makes sense. I was looking at a diff between a Debian package and an Ubuntu package, and saw that Debian had stuff like an older Standards-Version and whatnot, and that threw me for a loop.
[17:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): So my goal is to try to merge as much of the changes that are in Ubuntu up to Debian? Like wherever I see, "hey, Ubuntu bumped debhelper-compat, but Debian didn't", I submit a fix for that? And vice-versa?
[17:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Because I'm merging new changes into Debian, which is easy because you are Debian. I think I get it, and now the diff output is actually making sense to me. OK, this shouldn't be too hard.
[17:22] <arraybolt3[m]> And I can see some changes are unique to Ubuntu and should stay that way (certain fields in debian/control for instance), so those I don't try to merge. I think this is all making sense. I'll try it.
[17:23] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yes. First try to precisely reason "hey, this is what the delta is" and make sure all of it can be reasonably upstreamed.
[17:23] <tsimonq2> Submit a PR on Salsa and set tsimonq2 as the reviewer
[17:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. That makes sense.
[17:24] <tsimonq2> debian/experimental not debian/sid btw :)
[17:24] <tsimonq2> We'll get this down to a science, believe me...
[17:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): So, just so I understand the why of what I'm doing, why am I starting at an older version? Shouldn't I just clean up the packaging for the latest version the way I do for backports, then directly compare that with the version in Debian?
[17:30] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: You can just run a diff with debian as the base version and ubuntu as the patched version. Inspect the diff and apply changes to Debian. Also don't sync any Ubuntu-specific patches or Ubuntu maintainer lines to Debian packaging 
[17:32] <tsimonq2> So just diff the version I just uploaded to experimental with the version in ubuntu/kinetic
[17:33] <arraybolt3[m]> Yes! That's what I thought. OK, I think everything's clicked. Hopefully you'll see some not-too-poorly-made pull requests in a bit.
[17:34] <tsimonq2> Cool. Remember, Debian uses Debian revisions not Ubuntu ones ;)
[17:34] <arraybolt3[m]> True. -1, not -1ubuntu1.
[17:35] <tsimonq2> Yep
[17:36] <LeoK[m]> Having trouble sending bug reports - todays kinetic .
[17:37] <LeoK[m]> Will have to file from another machine 
[17:39] <tsimonq2> What seems to be the issue?
[17:41] <LeoK[m]> Wow -- 1. changed wallpaper and manual shortcut disappeared from desktop
[17:41] <LeoK[m]> 2. then ran apport (ubuntu-bug) and informed no way to open Firefox  .etc 
[17:45] <LeoK[m]> checked another box - as soon as wallpaper is changed the manual disappears but worse is the inability open Firefox for bug report - will submit and fwd links when finished
[17:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Leo K: I got around the Firefox issue by just opening Firefox and pasting the link manually.
[17:46] <LeoK[m]> Yes of course I can do that - but having to that is also a bug yes7no?
[17:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Yep, it's a bug, I think I reported it, I'll send you the report.
[17:46] <LeoK[m]> ok tks
[17:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Leo K: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1973470
[17:46] <LeoK[m]> i have it thanks anyways
[17:47] <LeoK[m]> Will just file new bug about the manual ..
[17:48] <LeoK[m]> What package should I file against? default-settings or artwork?
[17:50] <tsimonq2> LeoK[m]: Pcmanfm-qt in Ubuntu
[17:53] <LeoK[m]> tsimonq2: tks
[18:06] <LeoK[m]> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm-qt/+bug/1980137
[18:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I'm trying to sign up for a Debian Salsa account so that I can submit changes upstream, and it says it's waiting for approval from an administrator... Can I just push my changes to GitHub and have you merge them? Or can you kick GitLab into working?
[19:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): New present: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares-settings-ubuntu/1:22.10.9
[19:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> In the future, feel free to remove files from the ubuntustudio package if they're obvious dupes.
[19:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> That was a lot more dupes than I originally thought.
[20:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): I see there's a significant difference between the symbols files in libqtxdg for Debian and Ubuntu. It looks to me like one has the mangled symbols, and the other has almost-human-readable symbols that were passed through c++filt or something. Please advise.
[20:27] <arraybolt3[m]> s/Please advise./Help?/
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): I'm..." <- Git is distributed and scalable, of course you can.
 "Simon Quigley (Developer): I see..." <- Ooh, the fun stuff... I would use Ubuntu's, but if you want an easier time doing symbols by hand you *can* convert it all using c++ and just use that as a symbols tag
[22:20] <arraybolt3[m]> By "convert it all using c++", you mean using c++filt?
[22:21] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[22:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Okay. So I should change Debian's symbols to look like Ubuntu's (but make sure the version numbers are right)?
[22:23] <tsimonq2> Roughly speaking, yes
[22:25]  * kc2bez[m] gently reminds Simon Quigley (Developer) we had the same build issue Eickmeyer is having a short time ago.
[22:25] <kc2bez[m]> Than we fixed the build and it went back to normal.
[22:26] <kc2bez[m]> I chalked it up to a one time event but I guess not.
[22:29] <tsimonq2> Hmm. Got it.
[23:39] <arraybolt3[m]> In the copyright file for libqtxdg, we have a "Files *" section marked 2012-2021 LXQt team. Under that, we have several files marked 2013-2017 LXQt team. Can I just merge them (i.e., delete the block that's marked 2013-2017)?
[23:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Pinging with question.
[23:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, the signing keys are different between Debian's libqtxdg and Ubuntu's libqtxdg.
[23:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know what to do with that.
 "Ooh, the fun stuff... I would..." <- After looking closely, it's actually libqt5xdgiconloader3's symbols who are different between the two. The symbol files are different enough that I'm inclined to do a full PPA + local RISC-V64 build to make sure everything's actually right. My question here is twofold. 1: Can I use a Launchpad PPA for testing the symbols on Debian packages? And 2: If not, what's Debian's equivalent
[23:55] <arraybolt3[m]> of a PPA so I can test all six architectures, or am I going to have to build it all on emulators locally?
 "In the copyright file for..." <- I don't think so. 
[23:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: OK.
[23:56] <kc2bez[m]> `Copyright: 2012-2018, LXQt team
[23:56] <kc2bez[m]>            2010-2012, Razor team`
[23:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, I get it, because it's the same files under copyright by both teams.
[23:56] <kc2bez[m]> the 2010-2012 bit is the hangup I think
[23:56] <kc2bez[m]> right
[23:59] <arraybolt3[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Actually, answered my own question - Debian is happy to use Ubuntu PPAs so long as you rebuild the package from source, which leads me to believe the symbol files are probably perfectly compatible. Which means only one snail-slow rebuild! Woot!