[01:07] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> simon: Dan's your contact for the gittea teams/repos/etc. config
[01:07] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> i'm still working on Drone
[01:07] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> and still working on other stuff
[01:07] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> but work has me running ragged this week so
[01:23] <kc2bez[m]> <lubot> "[telegram] <teward001> simon..." <- Yup, I will get to it soon Simon Quigley (Developer) 
[01:45] <lubot> [telegram] <guiverc> Yeah that's a good idea.. I've used the *landing of a new LXQt* before, but mainly Ubuntu Testing Week etc to try and drum up QA-testing, via posts on discourse/forum. I've usually concentrated on testing itself, providing the link to the LXQt upstream 'what's new/release' post only though (eg. https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/lubuntu-jammy-jellyfish-22-04-beta-testing-week/3163).    If I start on release notes, I'd use notes.lubuntu.me
[02:12] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Hi, I'm around, just that one PR?
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> No, two.
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> One for the synced with Debian libqtxdg, one for...
[02:12] <tsimonq2> Links?
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> pavucontrol-qt.
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> One moment...
[02:13] <arraybolt3[m]> https://github.com/lubuntu-team/libqtxdg-packaging/pull/1 https://github.com/lubuntu-team/pavucontrol-qt-packaging/pull/1 Simon Quigley (Developer) 
[02:13] <ubot93> Pull 1 in lubuntu-team/libqtxdg-packaging "Backports/jammy" [Open]
[02:13] <tsimonq2> And can I get a link to that wallpaper + that license we can use it under one more time?
[02:13] <ubot93> Pull 1 in lubuntu-team/pavucontrol-qt-packaging "Backports/jammy" [Open]
[02:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, easy.
[02:13]  * arraybolt3[m] stumbles around looking for Google Drive
[02:14] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, hold on, waiting for Slowggle to load
[02:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: For the first one, I'd say merge into Kinetic to start and *then* merge into Backports.
[02:15] <tsimonq2> Otherwise seemingly LGTM
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, picture: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KEVNBnKCPtxMpjyKQENPGwHCnGbIwla-/view?usp=sharing
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> License https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: That was because of a goof on my end, I can fix that with another force push.
[02:18] <arraybolt3[m]> (I thought the way I did it worked, but was a bit wasteful, I'll fix it.)
[02:18] <tsimonq2> Second one is uploading now
[02:19] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Thanks.
[02:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Two more sbuilds for just in case, then this thing should be ready to merge.
[02:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): libqtxdg should be ready now. Diff is clean, build is Lintian clean. Thanks for bearing with me while I'm figuring this out.
[02:41] <tsimonq2> That's where I'm at right now
[02:41]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1026KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/gXQlUfzeJTeRekaFdaxyiDLy/image.png >
[02:42] <tsimonq2> Any more suggestions on UI?
[02:42] <tsimonq2> <arraybolt3[m]> "Simon Quigley (Developer..." <- Cool. No problem.
[02:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Pretty good. I'd shrink the "Would you like to try or install Lubuntu" words a bit and shift them down so they dodge everything on the screen, and maybe also move the buttons away from the center so they don't cover the ring (if they can dodge the swirls on either side that would be even cooler).
[02:43] <arraybolt3[m]> My idea is to make the UI elements dodge around the background. Also, maybe remove the Lubuntu logo at the top since it's already in the middle of the screen.
[02:44] <arraybolt3[m]> I also had some other ideas, let me see if I can get Google Slides to do something that doesn't look like an April Fools day joke.
[02:44] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like my last mockup did.)
[02:45] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Logo gone, you think the buttons should go up more or just slightly out on either side?
[02:45] <arraybolt3[m]> I was originally thinking out to the side, but now I'm thinking down, and add some logos above them that convey the ideas of "Try" and "Install", I'll show you in one sec...
[02:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm, my idea might not be so good, lemme see...
[02:49]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1071KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/wSsCoEHbMHABNIWgSQEUyGux/image.png >
[02:49] <tsimonq2> Does that look better?
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, I like it! That's really nice.
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I think we're finally getting somewhere
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Would you call that shippable as a 0.1.0 release?
[02:50] <tsimonq2> I mean, the buttons don't work yet ;)
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Pretty close, there's one change I'm thinking of.
[02:50] <tsimonq2> BUT WHEN THEY DO
[02:50] <tsimonq2> :)(
[02:50] <tsimonq2>  * :)
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Oh?
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm thinking of adding icons below the buttons that convey the ideas of "Try" and "Install" like Ubiquity does.
[02:52] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm gonna see if I can do it in Gimp and make something.
[02:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Mind if I use random free clipart from off the Internet just for the mockup?
[03:07] <tsimonq2> Go for it
[03:11]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1086KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/lfGJgTWaIxkPOtxQjNpnOVJG/reallybadmockup.png >
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, this is a VERY ROUGH draft, and I didn't check licensing before using the clipart here, so this isn't usable as-is, but you get the idea.
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Pinging with above really bad mockup.
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> (I dunno, looking at this, I think it was better the way you had it.)
[03:15] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons: What happened to our Calamares theming?
[03:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I love it
[03:15] <tsimonq2> I'd say just iterate on that png file, I can merge in changes
[03:16] <arraybolt3[m]> One of the pieces of clipart I used isn't free for commercial use, so this is strictly for concepts, we can't actually use it.
[03:16] <arraybolt3[m]> But we get the idea, I can make clipart we can use, it would just take me a bit.
[03:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Si
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Another idea might be to round the corners of the buttons and increase the amount of bevel.
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]>  * (enter instead of tab strikes again!)
[03:19] <tsimonq2> Install Qt Creator, I take PRs :)
[03:19] <tsimonq2> Not sure how to do that part.
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Me neither, I thought you would :)
[03:24] <kc2bez[m]> <tsimonq2> "Dan Simmons: What happened to..." <- Yes
[03:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh no.
[03:25] <kc2bez[m]> It was what prompted my question the other day in the Calamares channel.
[03:27] <kc2bez[m]> I only had a brief moment to look after  but I don't still don't understand what happened.
[03:49] <tsimonq2> I do...
[03:50] <tsimonq2> Nope. No I don't
[03:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I'm going ahead and installing Qt Creator. Hopefully that will at least let me design UI even if I can't code C++.
[03:58] <tsimonq2> You'll catch on really quickly, as it's still a small project
[03:58] <tsimonq2> Anyway
[03:58] <tsimonq2> I'm going to go put in a few hours for $sidejob
[03:59] <tsimonq2> `tools/boot/kinetic/common.sh` in `debian-cd`...
[03:59] <tsimonq2> (personal note)
[03:59] <tsimonq2> tl;dr we're going to need to have LOTS of fun to get this to autolaunch only on a live session
[03:59] <tsimonq2> I'm looking forward to it :P
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Package it, throw it in Universe, make it always autolaunch, and then just add it to the packages to be removed on the installed system.
[04:03] <arraybolt3[m]> A systemd unit should be able to launch it for us.
[04:31] <tsimonq2> I mean... maybe?
[04:42] <tsimonq2> Something good to understand if you're looking at this from a different point of view would be the stack that gets LXQt launched on the live ISO
[04:43] <tsimonq2> I suspect we're going to have to patch LXQt a bit for this. Currently when you disable e.g. starting Desktop and Panel by default, there's no option to re-enable them later or similar
[04:44] <tsimonq2> It may even just involve a complete replacement to Lubuntu.desktop in xsessions to launch our special session which in turn launches the prompt screen
[04:44] <tsimonq2> We could also do this via bare openbox but likewise, it's hacky
[04:45] <tsimonq2> I'm just spitballing but I'd expect this to take a few months 
[04:45] <tsimonq2> I could see quite a few race conditions that would occur by simply using a systemd unit. I'd favor that for installed user applications
[04:46] <tsimonq2> For the installer stack though we can patch it a little bit. Write some custom stuff to make it work the way we want it to...
[04:46] <tsimonq2> Anyway, I'm going away from my computer for the rest of the night. Patches and pings will be responded to async
[04:48] <tsimonq2> We may need a systemd unit that runs between the system init and sddm to copy over an openbox autostart.sh which will accomplish what we want to with minimal hassle
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> How are we launching LXQt now? What if we just made our app launch after X is launched, and then have our app launch LXQt if the Try button is clicked?
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> (And if Install is clicked, we don't even bother loading LXQt and just go straight for Calamares.)
[04:49] <tsimonq2> (Any time I touch this stack I feel like I'm just hacking around with a saw :P)
[04:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: That's the basic concept
[04:50] <tsimonq2> Use Openbox for the minimal "hey just install this thing" screen and run startlxqt if the user wants to try it first 
[04:50] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Openbox to provide X. Very lightweight. (Let's just freaking port to Wayland already, come on now.)
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> 'Cause Openbox is still there, right?
[04:51]  * arraybolt3[m] tries to launch openbox
[04:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah
[04:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Black screen, you will need to right click 
[04:51] <tsimonq2> And a bunch of legacy shortcuts 
[04:51] <tsimonq2> So you can't log out 
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Log in 
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Or launch a terminal 
[04:51] <tsimonq2> It's garbage it needs fixing :P
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> It didn't do it, it didn't want LXQt running at the same time 🅰️
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (???)
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> :-P != 🅰️
[04:52] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Log out and log back in with the Openbox session and you'll see real quick 
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> If we know it's there, there's no need to.
[04:53] <arraybolt3[m]> (I mean, I don't need to try and launch it if we know it's there.)
[04:53] <tsimonq2> LXQt, at least as shipped in Lubuntu, ships openbox. We are taking candidates for a very light replacement that supports Wayland and LXQt. :P
[04:53] <tsimonq2> (And that looks basically the same.)
[04:53] <tsimonq2> I mean, you can use LXQt with KWin...
[04:53] <tsimonq2> I really don't like the look of it as a default 
[04:53] <tsimonq2> Makes it look like KDE
[04:53] <arraybolt3[m]> It's KWin, GNOME, or bust last I checked.
[04:54] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: There's others. They're just hiding. :P
[04:54] <tsimonq2> ™
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Why do we want Wayland in the first place? To me, replacing X with Wayland is similar to forcing Snap down everyone's throats. I'm happy with X, thank you.
[04:56] <arraybolt3[m]> s/, thank you//
[05:10] <tsimonq2> Wayland is coolnewshiny
[05:11] <tsimonq2> And apparently more secure according to the brochure I took 30 seconds to read :P
[05:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): How do I build that installer-prompt? "cmake ./CMakeLists.txt" isn't doing it.
[05:11] <tsimonq2> Jk
[05:11]  * arraybolt3[m] expects to hear, "Oh brother, you really have no idea what you're doing, do you?"
[05:12] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: And sadslowbuggy last I tried to use it, plus from reading many people's experience of it.
[05:12] <arraybolt3[m]> s/many/some/
[05:13] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/11873fe0f229f8e86a676070e64a21ba5d5b0e1b)
[05:13] <tsimonq2> * This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c15f471290f32acd0991fc6d8290a71d0bbf5b70)
[05:13] <tsimonq2> * This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/7c54c992a1de71299fdb2be5f3b5ca77646b9776)
[05:14] <tsimonq2> -jFIXME = -j8 for me since I have 8 processor cores
[05:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope. Throws a fit over Qt6, maybe I'm missing build deps.
[05:14] <tsimonq2> Or just build it in Qt Creator :)
[05:14] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Probably 
[05:14] <arraybolt3[m]> There's no project file, so I dunno how to do that. (re: build it in Qt Creator)
[05:15]  * arraybolt3[m] is used to Visual Studio-like stuff
[05:15] <tsimonq2> Shouldn't need one. Just select the CMake file or similar
[05:15] <tsimonq2> It will probably make you a CMakeLists.txt.user
[05:16] <tsimonq2> I'll be back at my computer around 3 and can send screenshots 
[05:16] <tsimonq2> Just know that it works for me :)
[05:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Ooooh, building in Qt Creator worked! Gives me a black screen with the buttons, though.
[05:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (My Internet cut out, sorry for the slow response.)
[05:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (Figured out the problem, now it's working just fine.)
[05:45] <tsimonq2> Cool!
[06:00] <tsimonq2> Well, it just died down so I'm calling it a night with $sidejob already
[06:00] <tsimonq2> How's it going arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org?
[06:00] <arraybolt3[m]> No clue how to round buttons or increase bevel.
[06:00] <arraybolt3[m]> I know it's possible somehow because I had the button look I was thinking of universally in Kubuntu 14.04 (KXStudio).
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Remind me how to apply a debdiff to the packaging.
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (I could dig it up with the search, but you're right here.)
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (Doing a sync from archive,)
[06:02] <tsimonq2> patch -p1 < PATH
[06:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks.
[06:04] <tsimonq2> https://groups.google.com/g/python_inside_maya/c/_gOUTGcCWl0
[06:04] <tsimonq2> Of course
[06:05] <tsimonq2> https://forum.qt.io/topic/41771/solved-setstylesheet-to-qpushbutton-rounded-corners/2
[06:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, nice! I was fiddling with the stylesheets (total newb to Qt), I got some cool gradients.
[06:05] <tsimonq2> https://falsinsoft.blogspot.com/2015/11/qt-snippet-rounded-corners-qpushbutton.html
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> I got frustrated and went back to backporting.
[06:06] <tsimonq2> I think that last link is the jackpot
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, looks like.
[06:06] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: All good :)
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll definitely be looking at it some more tonight (I think).
[06:28] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: 
[06:28]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1071KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/azFKeQOwiOJZxZEVgRZKxkYO/image.png >
[06:28] <tsimonq2> The last thing we really need are some icons I think
[06:28] <tsimonq2> imo that looks perfect
[06:30] <tsimonq2> I think that should be good for a 1.1.0 tbh
[06:30] <tsimonq2> gimme a sec I'll test it and then perhaps you can package it ;)
[06:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, that looks really nice. Better than what I had come up with.
[06:37] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll come up with some clip art and send it to you momentarily.
[06:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I made an Install logo, I think you'll like it.
[06:46]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (11KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jGJbbMrZeFQBCCgREovQyimv/Install.png >
[06:48] <arraybolt3[m]> * made an "Install, * Install" logo,
[06:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): And here's my try at a "Try" logo.
[06:57]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (58KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/unMyflzlmFckbzjuULQRDQtE/Try.png >
[06:58] <tsimonq2> Okay, so how would those look on the buttons?
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess they're not logos, but you get what I'm saying.)
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Not on the buttons, but underneath them, in the empty space below.
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> With the arrows pointing toward them.
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or something like that, sorta like how Ubiquity has the stuff above the Try and Install buttons.)
[06:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Here, this should be easy to mock up in Gimp now that it's made.
[07:02]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1235KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/BoOOFIsADqQDyKaUOPxsPMaK/DevelopIter.png >
[07:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't know if that even needs arrows.)
[07:02] <tsimonq2> I'm thinking like icons above the text
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Like, much smaller and above rather than large and below?
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> That would look nice too, but I think the buttons should be shifted out and down a bit more if we want to do that (the buttons might look nicer shifted out a bit anyway, just my opinion).
[07:07]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1194KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TgOGDIvwqBschvYfrZFOMkMC/DevelopIter.png >
[07:07] <arraybolt3[m]> (Sans the painfully obvious fuzzy select - move - patch stunt I did to move stuff around in GIMP.)
[07:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great, I put the icons the wrong way around.
[07:09] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, there we go, right way around.
[07:09]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1194KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vXVrOPWDkfjjpQwkZRzksdjM/DevelopIter.png >
[07:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Meh, the try icon needs to be a touch bigger IMO, but is that sorta what you were thinking?
[07:10] <tsimonq2> There we are. Just make sure Erich is cool with the left logo, he'll be able to tell you why :)
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Do I need to change it?
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Er, would it be better if I changed it?
[07:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (Wow, you sure were right about Matrix being awesome. It's like someone took IRC and added collaboration and sharing features.)
[07:27] <tsimonq2> <arraybolt3[m]> "Er, would it be better if I..." <- Make it look less like the Ubuntu Studio logo :)
[07:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, you're right. I can see the logo right in the upper-left corner of my desktop screen since I'm using Ubuntu Studio as my host. I see what you're saying.
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, that took me longer than it should have, but how's this?
[07:43]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1165KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/fSazFuBByJbaHXIuEgsOuSAm/DevelopIter.png >
[07:44]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (2KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TsYapDFDmYuqRBQebEuvkYwo/Try2.png >
[07:44] <arraybolt3[m]> New "Try" icon.
[08:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, I'm happy to try and package this thing once it's done.
[08:34] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Hi sorry, you go to bed yet?
[08:34] <tsimonq2> I think that looks great.
[08:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Still here.
[08:34] <tsimonq2> I have it all working now, functionally speaking.
[08:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. Ready for packaging?
[08:38] <arraybolt3[m]> (Right now I'm going back over my earlier backporting work to make sure that the Copyright files are all correct, since I realized I didn't quite do a totally thorough check, then I'm going to finish backporting qtermwidget and then we'll be done with Stage III.
[08:39] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Not quite yet, that's probably a tomorrow thing.
[08:39] <arraybolt3[m]> * Stage III.)
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> It never ceases to amaze me how far out-of-touch xnox is with the flavors: "also tsimonq2 upload is nowhere to be seen in git" (wrt ubiquity) *facepalm*
[16:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt Is this what you were looking for?
[16:09] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: No, this was in #ubuntu-meeting in the foundations team meeting.
[16:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh. Yet another channel I'm not joined in. (will stick to reading not talking there)
[17:03] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> sorry for the delay, but I'm still working on it
[17:03] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> https://github.com/Roberalz/lubuntu-global-applications
[17:05] <tsimonq2> <Eickmeyer> "It never ceases to amaze me..." <- First off, hey bro, this channel is logged and someone could send this over to him ;) also I don't have commit access there so I linked him to the PR
[17:05] <tsimonq2> I don't talk shit in public channels unless I'm very angry and justified or it's teward :P
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Fair.
[17:06]  * tsimonq2 throws 10 million cats at teward all at once followed by the litterboxes
[17:09] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer @eickmeyer:matrix.org: BTW, in -desktop you're technically sound. You've been around for a bit too, remember the TB discussion on channels with default snaps?
[17:09] <tsimonq2> Literally what you're suggesting happen :)
[17:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, exactly. They consider everything in the snap store fair game as long as it's not "classic" containment, so the stuff that needs to happen to make that happen is a fair request.
[17:13] <tsimonq2> I'd do two things right now if I were you...
[17:13] <tsimonq2> Or one of two 
[17:13] <tsimonq2> A) submit an email to the TB suggesting a streamlined process
[17:13] <tsimonq2> B) submit your request to devel-permissions, even if solved, as sort of a template... so the DMB knows what's up
[17:14] <tsimonq2> If diddledani is asking, while they're still going through the Canonical hiring process, they may not be intimately familiar with that 
[17:14] <tsimonq2> I dunno, just my opinions :)
[17:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> There is a streamlined process, so long as the required snap deps also have the required track, which just requires a little coordination. It's a matter of adding "* snap:${snapname}" to the seed, plain and simple, and if a dependency is discovered (such as I found), the same for its dependency.
[17:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, I'm in the coordination phase.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> Basically, no other flavor has tried this before.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> And I'm a little more adventurous than some. :)
[17:19] <lubot> [telegram] <lynorian> I mean how will switching to wayland mean for say using obs-studio for window capture?
[17:22] <arraybolt3[m]> > * <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> throws 10 million cats at teward all at once followed by the litterboxes
[17:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Wow. The visual that just gave me...
[17:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> <lubot> "[telegram] <lynorian> I mean how..." <- You need pipewire installed for sure, beyond that I think obs handles it, but I'm no expert.
[17:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: It's a whole new meaning to poo-flinging.
[17:34] <kc2bez[m]> <Eickmeyer[m]> "You need pipewire installed..." <- I think you are spot on, OBS uses Pipewire for the video capturing in Wayland.
[17:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> kc2bez[m]: As does any video capture, such as when you're doing video conferencing in the browser with Google Meet, Zoom, or whatever.
[17:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Seriously, though. X works. X has worked for years. If there's anything AES should have taught us, it's that stuff that's ancient, actively maintained, and works, is better than stuff that's brand-new, actively maintained, and almost works. KDE also is a good example of this.
[17:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Although, KDE has stopped active development or bug fixing on X and any new features are done on Wayland and backported to X only if possible.
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> No.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> I got that from the horse's mouth.
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> What?
[17:37]  * arraybolt3[m] is somewhat horrified
[17:37] <kc2bez[m]> Everyone is migrating
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Last I saw, KDE Wayland was still experimental.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> It is, and it's a long migration process.
[17:37] <kc2bez[m]> For sure
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Even bug fixes aren't backported to X now?
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> They are, but only if possible.
[17:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, I thought only feature requests or something like that.
[17:38] <kc2bez[m]> Only critical fixes now
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> You're talking the difference between a server and a protocol/compositor.
[17:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Not everything is a 1:1 fix.
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't even get the point behind Wayland. They say it's more secure, so far what I've seen is it causes problems with its security features, and IMO, if you do something to your system that needs Wayland's security, you've already messed up your system to the point where you need to wipe clean and start over.
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> (By the time something that tries to spy on your screen gets on your system, from an InfoSec standpoint, you're already sunk, whether the thing can record your screen or not. Who knows what else it's able to do?)
[17:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (It being something that spies on your screen.)
[17:41] <kc2bez[m]> There is more to it than that. The screen reading is only one aspect of security.
[17:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess I've not looked into it super closely, so I see what you're saying, but... sigh. I wonder how they're going to replace SSH X Forwarding. That's a feature I'm using heavily right now.
[17:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, for a dedicated server, X is going nowhere. xwayland is still a capable client and can receive forwarded X.
[17:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: So even once my desktop eventually switches to Wayland, I'll still be able to "ssh -X -C" into it and have it work?
[17:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I haven't tried it, but that's what I've been told.
[18:31] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> Sorry, I don't think I explained the process well, my fault for that. We will need to find out which package each of those .desktop files belong to and submit pull requests for each package or find where the upstream translations come from and translate there. I know where upg-apply.desktop is https://github.com/lubuntu-team/lubuntu-update-notifier (re @Roberalz: https://github.com/Roberalz/lubuntu-global-applications)
[18:33] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> Hans did some initial work towards other languages and I now notice there is a PR sitting there to add Japanese.
[18:47] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> Nothing happens, the work in principle is done at least in part, it would only be necessary to make some additional contributions, unless the work has to be done in another way that is not a .desktop and I have to start over (re @kc2bez: Hans did some initial work towards other languages and I now notice there is a PR sitting there to add Japanese.)
[19:37] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> Am I wrong or does lxqt directly read the .desktop files from the directory instead of using the .mo or .po files?
[20:07] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt/releases/tag/0.1.0
[20:07] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Give it your best shot, let me know if you need help. :)
[20:22] <tsimonq2> s/1.0/20/
[20:22] <tsimonq2> s/1/2/
[20:49]  * tsimonq2 goes afk for a few hours
[21:40] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> @tsimonq2 What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail? , the menus, or complete programs? What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail, the menus, or complete programs? What would they be?.
[21:45] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Yes. :) (re @Roberalz: @tsimonq2 What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail? , the menus, or complete programs? What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail, the menus, or complete programs? What would they be?.)
[21:49] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> Yes to what?  xD (re @tsimonq2: Yes. :))
[21:49] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> *
[21:49] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:50] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> No more info :p ? (re @tsimonq2: XD)
[21:52] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Ohhh, I understand now
[21:52] <lubot> [telegram] <tsimonq2> Okay so two things...
[21:53] <tsimonq2> A) At what point in the release can we no longer upload translations?
[21:54] <tsimonq2> B) Could the Global Team evaluate the translations updates and provide a section for the release notes outlining e.g. additional support and coverage?
[21:56] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> What type, can you give an example?
[21:57] <tsimonq2> Please excuse my talk to texans I'm driving but if you look at the upstream repositories the individual ones there should be websites commits in each one of the commit histories so and histories so for example feather pad well probably not feather paths probably not a good example maybe PC man of them cute possibly has Lee has translations that are showing up as website commits and just take a look at those and see what's updated from
[21:57] <tsimonq2> there
[21:57] <tsimonq2> If that translates to garbage to you just let me know and I can type it out more concisely in a little bit
[22:00] <tsimonq2> I guess one of the things I'm asking as well is, how comfortable are you working with translation files directly and reading git diffs?
[22:25] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> I'd have to look at that carefully, but I think it would be possible.  We should start with one in particular and see how it is done. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> I guess one of the things I'm asking as well is, how comfortable are you working with translation files directly and reading git diffs?)
[22:25] <arraybolt3[m]> <tsimonq2> "Please excuse my talk to..." <- Not quite garbage, but PCManFM-Qt turned into "PC man of them cute".
[22:26] <arraybolt3[m]> <tsimonq2> "arraybolt3: Give it your best..." <- Thank you, wish me luck!
[22:26] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I liked his talk to Texans. 
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> <tsimonq2> "Please excuse my talk to..." <- Translation: Please exuse my talk to text, I'm driving. But if you look at the upstream repositories, the individual ones, there should be Weblate commits in each one of the commit histories, for example FeatherPad. Well, probably not FeatherPad, that's probably not a good example, maybe PCManFM-Qt. Lee has translations that are showing up as weblate commits, and just take a look at
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> those and see what's updated from there.
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> s/exuse/excuse/
[22:29] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> I think I understand you, but we can specify it a little more. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Please excuse my talk to texans I'm driving but if you look at the upstream repositories the individual ones there should be websites commits in each one of the commit histories so and histories so for example feather pad well probably not feather paths probably not a good example maybe PC man of them cute possibly has Lee has translatio
[22:33] <lubot> [telegram] <Roberalz> The global team does not have much power to evaluate, the team only has one member.  :p (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> B) Could the Global Team evaluate the translations updates and provide a section for the release notes outlining e.g. additional support and coverage?)
[23:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): SInce I'm packaging brand-new software, just a question - I am supposed to be writing all the packaging files by hand, right? Or is there some magic tool that generates them for me to begin with?
[23:10] <tsimonq2> When I get home in a bit, I can write some tooling to make this very easy for you. Might flex some C++ skills. :P
[23:10] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I think there's a magic tool but on the first go use an existing, similar package as a reference, closely consult Debian Policy, and write it all from scratch
[23:11] <arraybolt3[m]> That's what I'm doing. Fantastic, this looks easy enough, at least to begin with.
[23:11] <tsimonq2> For your first package I do plan on giving it an extremely thorough review (which means grilling for you :P) so I would be very very sure it's completely Lintian clean and kosher before passing it over.
[23:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Makes very good sense to me. I'd expect this to be a rough first run. Hit me with all the criticism you've got, this is probably the most vital part of learning to package.
[23:13] <tsimonq2> Yeah, this one is probably going to be more frustrating than symbols, fair warning :)
[23:13] <tsimonq2> (This package doesn't need a symbols file, it's not a library)
[23:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense to me.
[23:28] <tsimonq2> First question to guide you: what's a source package vs a binary package?
[23:28] <tsimonq2> Also, can a binary exist without a source? In what cases may this occur?
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Hold on, fighting with GPL v3 in the copyright file (I don't think Debian systems have it installed by default if I'm understanding the Debian Wiki, so I'm copypasting THE WHOLE THING and formatting it to work in the file).
[23:30] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Don't do that bro, you're not understanding the Debian Wiki correctly ;)
[23:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Yay and crud.
[23:30] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lubuntu-team/liblxqt-packaging/blob/8e9612ab899df21ea2fb318d1e107a0568c3dafd/debian/copyright#L19
[23:30] <tsimonq2> Good example of this.
[23:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (It looked like the wiki said only 2.0 was installed, argh!)
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Yes, but that's LGPL 2.1, not GPL 3. Where is GPL 3 installed on a Debian system?
[23:31] <tsimonq2> I don't think that's the case :)
[23:31] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Check that dir
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Confusing wiki page: https://wiki.debian.org/GPL
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh yeah, because Ubuntu and Debian should be similar enough to be compatible...)
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (In this regard.)
[23:31] <tsimonq2> You can probably also check around for a copyright file that includes GPL 3 to get that short text 
[23:32] <arraybolt3[m]> There it is. Yay!
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> First question to guide you: what's a source package vs a binary package?
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> > 
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> > Also, can a binary exist without a source? In what cases may this occur?
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Source package is the package that contains all the packaging for the source code, so that you can "sbuild -d <release>" and have everything work. Binary package is the thing with all the actual files that you install into the system. If you're doing it with Debian tools, I don't think a binary can ever exist without a source package to make it.
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> (So I'm working with source packages, when I do sbuild it makes a binary package.)
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> (And you upload source packages to a PPA and download binary packages.)
[23:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Was that close to right?
[23:37] <tsimonq2> Correct. Where are source packages defined? Also, let me give you an example of something called NBS, Not Built (from a) Source. They exist in e.g. package renames where the old package has to be manually removed from the archive. 
[23:37] <tsimonq2> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> "Where are source packages defined?" I'm missing something, I don't know what that means.
[23:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: How do you define a binary package and source package?
[23:38] <tsimonq2> Which file do you do that in?
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): debian/control?
[23:39] <tsimonq2> Yep, cool. Next question, are .install files mandatory? When are they useful and do we need one in this case?
[23:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great. This one I have no clue. I have to go afk, hold on...
[23:40] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, back.
[23:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I think they're mandatory, and they define where files build from the source are to be installed into the system.
[23:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (This is just a guess, I didn't consult the docs for this one.)
[23:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Back again, pinging with above potentially wrong reply.
[23:43] <tsimonq2> Consult the docs and answer again :)
[23:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Doing that right now.
[23:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope, not mandatory, they only describe where things go that "make install" doesn't specify. I do not know if we need one in this case, since I've not gotten that far into packaging.
[23:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'd guess we probably don't, though.)
[23:46] <arraybolt3[m]> (And this is why you read the docs when you're unsure rather than taking wild guesses. At least this is a quiz and training session, not a published package!)
[23:47] <arraybolt3[m]> * don't, though. Depends on how smart the makefile CMake generates is.)
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> How close is that to right? The document I looked at was https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dother.en.html Section 5.11, since the Debian Policy Manual didn't seem to have info about the .install files.
[23:57] <tsimonq2> Correct 
[23:58] <tsimonq2> <arraybolt3[m]> "Nope, not mandatory, they only..." <- make install does specify them
[23:58] <tsimonq2> cmake just makes literally all the files 
[23:59] <tsimonq2> The job of the install file is to separate them out according to policy