[01:29] <jahoogabooga>  
[02:01] <jadenlian> good evening everyone!
[02:32] <jhutchins> Did some automatic update kill weechat or something?
[02:38] <WinterStreet> I could see that happening as I tried installing it and went back and it didn't work a couple days later.
[03:39] <ms9944> hi
[03:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Hi!
[03:41] <ms9944> Is this the community where Ubuntu Linux is discussed?
[03:41] <arraybolt3[m]> ms9944: This is a support channel for Ubuntu Linux, so if something goes wrong, we can try to help you here. There is a discussion channel at #ubuntu-discuss:libera.chat
[03:43] <ms9944> ok
[06:18] <asteca> I'm planning to upgrade from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I have a few VMs running which were spawned using virt-manager. I did make snapshots of these running VMs but I'm not sure if that's the right way to create "backups". Any suggestions?
[06:20] <arraybolt3[m]> asteca: I would think snapshots would be enough, but depending on how things have changed, you may try to boot the VM and have it fail, so I would highly recommend getting everything together so that if it doesn't restore cleanly, you can recover. Also, make sure you have full, total backups now, before upgrading, since upgrades have a reputation for going poorly.
[06:22] <asteca> arraybolt3[m] Thanks for your response! What do you mean by "getting everything together"? Get all the data out and back up it up in addition to the snapshot?
[06:22] <asteca> *back it up
[06:23] <arraybolt3[m]> asteca: I just mean, have a total recovery plan. If you're running a server or something in a VM, make sure you can reboot the server if things go poorly, and that you're able to reinstall the server and restore your data if everything goes worst case scenario. Have full backups of all your data. You need to be ready so that if you end up doing a clean install and having to reboot all your VMs, you didn't lose anything but time.
[06:24] <asteca> Right, that makes sense. Thank you!
[08:16] <mobidrop> I have a question about the certified laptops for example: https://ubuntu.com/certified/202006-28000
[08:16] <mobidrop> it says "Pre-installed in some regions with a custom Ubuntu image that takes advantage of the system’s hardware features and may include additional software. Standard images of Ubuntu may not work well, or at all."
[08:16] <mobidrop> does that mean that a default ubuntu installation is not preferred?
[08:16] <mobidrop> or is it just a generic disclaimer?
[08:25] <tomreyn> mobidrop: i would expect this not to be just a boilerplate disclaimer. but certifications are run by canonical, you'd need to contact them for further information - we're (mostly) just a self-support community here.
[08:30] <tomreyn> mobidrop: when you click on "hardware details", you can see a list of all the parts found in this laptop, including exact product names, and, where possible, vendor + device IDs (for USB + PCI devices). if you search the web for these IDs with "linux" you will likely be able to tell whether these are well supported on linux, and from which version.
[08:34] <mobidrop> tomreyn, ok thanks I'll have to keep that in mind
[08:35] <tomreyn> mobidrop: the linux kernel versions in ubuntu releases are listed here, by their codename (with the release verision in parentheses): https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?exact=1&keywords=linux-image-generic - usually, when you have found that a given linux kernel version supports some hardware, then this and later kernel versions, also in ubuntu, will also support it.
[08:36] <mobidrop> yes the system certifications list the kernel version used for testing so I can take it or laater
[08:38] <tomreyn> the one you pointed to uses an "oem" series kernel. those can be modified to include vendor kernel patches and third party ("out of tree" drivers) which are not contained in upstream linux kernels of this version.
[08:40] <tomreyn> for long term support of hardware components, your goal should be to find a laptop which has compoennts which are supported by the "generic" series kernels, so those packaged as linux-image-generic
[08:45] <tomreyn> certifications only make a statement that a given device (here: a laptop) was proven to be fully (or mostly, if noted so) supported under the conditions given. those conditions are usually a specific ubuntu release, and can be: the oem series kernel for this ubuntu release, which (possibly) was specifically modified to support the listed components of this laptop, hardware or vendor specific customizations only found on the OEM installation
[08:45] <tomreyn> image provided with this laptop, possibly just for this one ubuntu release.
[08:45] <tomreyn> mobidrop: ^
[09:04] <mobidrop> tomreyn, it's weird to me that they can certify it on a custom version of the software that others might not even have access to
[09:05] <mobidrop> but then again if I make sure to use the exact same kernel it should be good
[09:10] <mobidrop> unfortunately I can't specify the exact components for the laptop, just brand series and specs
[09:14] <tomreyn> mobidrop: you'll be good while running the exact same model and country variant, using the very oem kernel version tested, on the very ubuntu release tested with it.
[09:14] <tomreyn> (but then there is a chance that you might want to upgrade at some point)
[09:19] <Mentos> I had a cry about this the other day tbh
[09:19] <Mentos> because some realtek card is slightly newer than the drivers available even though they're 100% interchangable parts
[09:20] <Mentos> and the solution was hours of messing about cloning off github to basically make the system lie to itself to say it WAS that network adaptor
[09:20] <Mentos> sadly being an "ultrabook" it doesn't have any alternative networking other than bluetooth
[09:21] <Mentos> I get the reason why this is the case in [F]OSS for hardware support
[09:21] <Mentos> it's just kind of problematic, especially in this case personally where the solution afaik basically is just to use a part of aircrack-ng lol
[09:22] <murmel> mobidrop: Mentos: imo, look into fedora supported devices, as those need to work on fedora ootb, in comparison with canonicals support list
[09:22] <Mentos> and is anything but a "humanist" approach to the problem MS largely covers with extremely generic drivers underpinning things
[09:22] <Mentos> "failover"
[09:22] <murmel> with no edited iso/install
[09:23] <Mentos> murmel: corporations can do that for big batch buys -- but even for ongoing purchases, like 99% of the laptop I was trying on, come with the intel chipset
[09:23] <Mentos> their official support even says it has the intel chipset
[09:23] <Mentos> but it just <doesn't> lol
[09:23] <Mentos> cause that's the reality of device manufacturing in 2022
[09:24] <Mentos> you get something <as good or better> by <however they measure that internally>
[09:24] <murmel> Mentos: about which device are we talking about?
[09:24] <Mentos> irrelevant but it's a lenovo yoga
[09:24] <Mentos> ironically in a twist of events from the recall above ^^
[09:25] <Mentos> it actually DOES have a wacom digitizer that the windows driver intentionally handicaps
[09:25] <mobidrop> murmel, thanks for the tip!
[09:25] <murmel> Mentos: it's not irrelevant, as consumer devices have the issues where parts are being exchanged. business devices don't have this
[09:25] <Mentos> their specs for this exact serial number, again, say it's NOT a wacom
[09:25] <Mentos> it's a "generic 10 point touch"
[09:25] <Mentos> but, I guess they ran out of those and used some wacoms as well xD
[09:25] <Mentos> or did it to $bump the prices of their wacom official devices
[09:25] <Mentos> it's really nightmarish
[09:26] <Mentos> and yes, businesses don't but again only ordering in batch
[09:26] <Mentos> that exact same model can and will have different components if you order a replacement say, a year later
[09:26] <Mentos> or order <another batch>
[09:26] <Mentos> [or oft will]
[09:26] <murmel> Mentos: we are talking about business devices, not businesses buying in batches
[09:26] <Mentos> if you're buying devices singularly
[09:26] <Mentos> then all bets are off.
[09:26] <murmel> nope
[09:26] <murmel> def. not
[09:26] <Mentos> yup ;p
[09:26] <Mentos> as above.
[09:27] <Mentos> unless you literally get them second hand where someone has checked and tells you
[09:27] <murmel> there is a reason, why business devices are more expensive. one of them being so they can always provide the same parts
[09:27] <Mentos> it's definitely LESS true
[09:27] <Mentos> but I worked in corporate for a decade -- thankfully not with ubuntu so it was not really an issue
[09:28] <Mentos> happened all the time though :shrug:
[09:28] <Mentos> especially given the rise of like
[09:28] <Mentos> m.2's being used for combo networking cards
[09:28] <Mentos> there's no integration to consider to use a different one for them
[09:28] <Mentos> and they only officially support windows
[09:28] <Mentos> (there's a few official ubuntu supporting brands/models I think now)
[09:29] <Mentos> but even then only ubuntu ;p
[09:29] <Mentos> ps offering ubuntu preinstalled isn't the same as "official support" :P
[09:30] <Mentos> though it's a start
[09:30] <Mentos> anyway tldr is it's a super generic rtl adaptor and because it's an 8822 not an 8821
[09:30] <Mentos> I had to spend like <hours> in the terminal
[09:30] <Mentos> and there's nothing humanist about that process as it stands today
[09:31] <Mentos> the apple-style settings panel is useful and definitely very human
[09:31] <Mentos> but sadly at the cost of being very restrictive
[09:31] <Mentos> ANY issue and it's the terminal you're headed to heh
[09:31] <Mentos> there's not even like, an event viewer ??
[09:32] <Mentos> and also to be fair MS is for some unknown reason really struggling in this regard when it comes to migrating from control panel
[09:32] <tomreyn> Mentos: since this is beyond ubuntu support, would you move to a more suitabke place, such as #ubuntu-offtopic?
[09:32] <Mentos> though the why for that is <I have no idea>
[09:32] <Mentos> i'll leave it there -- soz tomreyn !
[09:33] <tomreyn> thanks
[10:28] <schopin> My system (22.04) is using a dpkg-managed snapd, but I'd like to move to a snap-managed snapd to easily try out the edge channel. I wasn't able to find any doc to do that, does anyone have any pointer?
[10:31] <ikonia> schopin: you mean dpkg installs the snap for you
[10:32] <schopin> no, I mean having snapd managed by itself rather than by dpkg/apt.
[10:33] <Mentos> doesn't 22.04 do that natively/by default?
[10:38] <schopin> Mentos: I think it does on new installs, yes. My system is an upgrade though.
[10:44] <Mentos> schopin: have you tried just literally installing snapd
[10:44] <Mentos> and then doing `sudo snap install snapd`
[10:52] <schopin> Mentos: I *already* have snapd installed, as part of the base install. I haven't tried anything just yet, because it's the kind of operation that could easily leave me with parts of my system unusable, hence my request for documentation
[10:52] <Mentos> it shouldn't do
[10:52] <Mentos> either it replaces those default parts or it doesn't but either way it shouldn't be "destructive"
[10:53] <Mentos> can always take a snapshot first ^_^
[10:53] <Mentos> snap your thing before you snapd their thing xD
[11:35] <ogra> schopin, make sure to have the correct core(18,20) snap installed too, the snapd snap needs its base (core) snap  ... then check with "snap --version" what is actually running ...
[11:38] <nxv> i have installed brew and new version of nvim through brew, but after restarting terminal it doesnt detect brew anymore and nvim is on the old version
[11:39] <nxv> im a linux noob and was wondering what i did wrong and how can i fix it
[11:39] <nxv> i shouldve added those two to the path manually? since in worked in terminal i assumed it already was
[11:39] <luna__> would not apt be better then brw in Ubuntu?
[11:39] <nxv> needed a version of nvim that apt didnt have (0.7)
[11:40] <luna__> oh
[11:40] <ogra> sudo snap install nvim --classic
[11:40] <ogra> (...would be the right thing to do in ubuntu to get the newer nvim)
[11:44] <bencc1> how do I restart/reload alsa after adding /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-loopback.conf?
[11:50] <nxv> ogra: thanks!
[12:12] <p3lim> hi, we're having issues with the ubuntu installer (subiquiti?), we need to use apt with https through a proxy, but the installer only gives us an option for a http proxy, not https, and everything fails when it tries to update a the end
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:24] <bittin> hey
[12:30] <lotuspsychje> p3lim: you might wanna ask in #ubuntu-server if you like
[13:01] <zetheroo> Twice today my Ubuntu 20.04 laptop complete froze up. I had to do a hard reset. How would I start to troubleshoot the cause?
[13:06] <samy1028b> zetheroo:  what does /var/log/syslog say right before it froze?  Was there Over-temp, Out-of memory, high load happening before it froze?
[13:07] <zetheroo> My IRC client closed. Did I miss any replies?
[13:07] <samy1028b> zetheroo:  what does /var/log/syslog say right before it froze?  Was there Over-temp, Out-of memory, high load happening before it froze?
[13:16] <zetheroo> is there a way to search syslog for the messages before the last boot?
[14:03] <samy1028b> zetheroo: if you know the time the last boot occurred, then you could do "less /var/log/syslog"  then use /  to start a search.  Then enter the timestamp you think it was.
[14:04] <samy1028b> (or look at "uptime")
[14:12] <zetheroo> Thanks. The last message in syslog before the crash is: ESET Endpoint Antivirus Notice: Detection Engine was successfully updated to version 25526 (20220701).
[14:12] <zetheroo> Unfortunately not really anything to go on.
[14:25] <jwash> hi guys, can someone assist getting a 2 camera setup working in motion
[14:45] <SteelRose> Hello! a bit off-topic but surely not unknown to some... is anyone here running Graylog with OpenSearch 2.x ? Thanks!
[14:47] <samy1028b> zetheroo:  unfortunately I don't have much more insight except keep digging.  Perhaps run a task manager (if you're on a desktop) and see if anything spikes like RAM/CPU/Load average, etc.  There's so many possibilities that it's exceptionally difficult to diagnose remotely.
[14:47] <samy1028b> and wait for it to happen again.
[16:44] <jhutchins> "Endpoint Antivirus Notice:"?  Since when is there an anti-virus program on Ubuntu?
[16:45] <WinterStreet> @jhutchins: been there abiut 5 years now I belive
[16:45] <WinterStreet> about even
[16:46] <oerheks> jhutchins, ?
[16:46] <jhutchins> What anti-virus program is it?
[16:46] <oerheks> jhutchins, there is non standard.
[16:46] <jhutchins> Last I knew AVG had discontinued Linux support.
[16:46] <WinterStreet> Windows has so many viruses people running from Windows developed one
[16:47] <oerheks> jhutchins, eset, likely? but that has been installed manually
[16:47] <jhutchins> Clam is a detection program, I don't think it counts as anti-virus (it doesn't do anything about them).
[16:48] <WinterStreet> I can see that. There are all of two viruses for Apple and one or two for linux a 3000 for windows...
[16:49] <WinterStreet> and 399 even
[16:49] <jhutchins> "ESET NOD32 ANTIVIRUS FOR LINUX DESKTOP currently receives limited support and will be terminated in Q3 2022."
[16:49] <WinterStreet> Grrr...
[16:49] <oerheks> nod32.. not 64?
[16:51] <WinterStreet> Poit bei ng You need a virus scanner for Windows so Windows users think it's needed.
[16:55] <Psil0Cybin> Chkroot
[16:55] <Psil0Cybin> rkhunter
[16:55] <Psil0Cybin> only thing i recommend/
[16:56] <Psil0Cybin> wait we have anti - virus for linux?
[16:57] <tomreyn> no, we have ubuntu support for ubuntu
[16:57] <Psil0Cybin> yea thought so
[16:57] <Psil0Cybin> just was reading posts above , mainly from debian
[17:38] <jhutchins> Rather than crickets, the soundtrack for this channel should be waves on a deserted beach.  Occasionally washing up trash.
[17:39] <Gallomimia> what's happened to nvidia drivers? i installed nvtop yesterday and it did something weird to my system
[17:39] <Gallomimia> "additional drivers" says "Continue using a manually installed driver"
[17:40] <Gallomimia> no proprietary drivers in use? how odd. is this new open source driver already packaged up?
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> Gallomimia: check nvidia-smi ?
[17:45] <Gallomimia> not found, but can be installed with: lots of metapackages
[17:45] <oerheks> how did you install nvidia drivers?
[17:45] <Gallomimia> well, i did install them with apt install nvidia-450-server
[17:45] <oerheks> the .run file is not supported, as you know
[17:46] <Gallomimia> yes i do know
[17:46] <oerheks> -server?
[17:46] <Gallomimia> is it my fault that version 450 doesn't have a client package?
[17:46] <enigma9o7[m]> hmmm plus should you install a specific version number, wont that prevent upgrades?
[17:46] <Gallomimia> i did that too
[17:46] <Gallomimia> like i said, i asked it to install nvtop last night
[17:47] <Gallomimia> and before i knew it, it yeeted most everything out
[17:47] <Gallomimia> i can't even figure out what it's running now
[17:48] <Gallomimia> right before i try installing the old package i had... i'd like to at least... figure out what is actually running
[17:49] <Gallomimia> funny thing is... nvtop doesn't run. so it borked my system for nothing
[17:54] <Gallomimia> wow. now it's setting up 470, 460 and 450. good job APT
[17:55] <Gallomimia> asking it to remove 460 and 470, makes it also remove 450? why?
[17:56] <ioria> Gallomimia, have you tried to remove nvtop ?  it's probably bugged
[17:56] <Gallomimia> oh right
[17:58] <Gallomimia> OH! now i remember why i had to use the server pacakage for 450. because the not-server one is also bugged, and tries to install 470. which has more memory leaks than someone john wayne just shot full of holes at the saloon.
[18:03] <Gallomimia> oh a reboot actually worked after all that messing around! yay
[18:03] <Gallomimia> still really want to know why the splash screen with "Gigabyte ultradurable" and the Ubunutu logo below sometimes shows after grub, and sometimes not. i think it looks nice, would prefer it all the time
[18:16] <BadAtom> Gallomimia: does it depend on if it's a warm or cold boot?
[18:17] <Gallomimia> nope
[18:17] <Gallomimia> tends to be more often when something in initrd changed
[20:10] <Kulesh> Welcome to DC++ https://dchub.one
[20:11] <oerheks> kushal, no add please.. as you do in other channels
[20:11] <oerheks> !coc
[20:13] <oerheks> see ..
[20:14] <jhutchins> https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/dunning-kruger-effect
[20:15] <oerheks> ?
[20:15] <oerheks> does it run ubuntu?
[20:47] <morganu> 20.04 my screen-brighness slider has no effect and (after a long time I have come to realize that THIS is why) it hurts my eyes. Dell, Asus screen; seems normal.
[20:59] <ravage> morganu, that slider can only control the backlight of your laptops internal screen. it cant manage external displays
[21:00] <murmel> ravage: it *can* manage external displays but its very finicky, and you would need to set it up yourself
[21:06] <morganu> how?
[21:06] <morganu> It literally hurts.
[21:07] <morganu> my eyes start tearing.
[21:07] <morganu> (cataracts got worse)
[21:08] <morganu> OK maybe there are some monitor adjustments in the monitor that will sork for me. I am going to turn off the screen and check it out.
[22:32] <morganu> Is there a clipboard that holds more than just the latest entry in to the buffer. So I want a buffer history.
[22:34] <rob0> you don't have that already?
[22:35] <enigma9o7[m]> Is it not okay to want things you already have?
[22:35] <rob0> I'm not familiar with GNOME, but XFCE and Plasma (KDE) have clipboard history tray apps.
[22:35] <ravage> morganu, i use https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4839/clipboard-history/ but there are alternatives. choose what you like
[22:44] <oerheks> i use copyq
[22:44] <oerheks> !info copyq
[22:47] <oerheks> works fine on wayland though