[01:56] <tsimonq2> https://www-muylinux-com.translate.goog/2022/07/18/lubuntu-backports/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp phenominal
[02:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Not sure that we originally intended to take a Neon-like approach, but then again I don't have anything against it. Why not? Especially if we distribute an extra ISO with Backports enabled by default.
[02:09] <tsimonq2> Yeah, that's the only part of the article I was like "mehhhhhhhhh"
[02:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Do you mind if I reply to your RFC on the lubuntu-devel and lubuntu-council lists?
[02:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): ^
[02:10] <arraybolt3[m]> I do intend to copy both lists on the reply.
[02:13] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New binary: libfm-qt [amd64] (kinetic-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-2~1] (lubuntu)
[02:13] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- New source: lubuntu-installer-prompt (kinetic-proposed/primary) [0.2.0-0ubuntu1]
[02:14] <tsimonq2> That's what it's there for :)
[02:30] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[03:03] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons @teward001 arraybolt3 guiverc Rober Leo K @lynorian @The_LoudSpeaker - please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-devel/2022-July/001930.html
 @Leokolb @Roberalz ^^^
[03:04] <guiverc> ack
 ack
[03:05] <arraybolt3[m]> ack
[03:05] <tsimonq2> ack
[03:08] <tsimonq2> PLEASE NOTE: All times are in US Central (UTC-5)
[03:09] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: guiverc Leo K Rober ^^^
[03:13] <guiverc> tsimonq2, the website may make allowances for local time; eg. when I look at the page it reports as GMT+1000 & says Australia/Melbourne date/times
[03:14]  * arraybolt3[m] is still trying to figure out how on earth to use a Doodle poll...
[03:15] <tsimonq2> ahhh nice guiverc
 same
 tsimonq2: no way in *hell* are you going to be available 24/7.  *points at your bad times*
[03:16] <tsimonq2> I will be available for any time the standup occurs :P
[03:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Ok, I think I finally figured it out. 🤞
 *literally pushes tsimonq2 into the padded room to get some rest*
[03:18] <arraybolt3[m]> !cookie | @teward001
[03:19] <tsimonq2> SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK, I ONLY DRINK BANG
[03:19] <tsimonq2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THN73gP786c
[03:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Reminds me of that anti-smoking commercial where they have the "With 100 times the carbonation of ordinary soda, Splode is intense!" It ends with the last can of soda exploding and the person who opened it vanishing, then says, "Only one product kills 1 in 3 people who use it - Tobacco."
 *cough* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UOYvcSy2f4 (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK, I ONLY DRINK BANG)
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, interesting. Adding the backports PPA on a freshly installed system (before even installing the initial OS updates) and then doing "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade" results in lots of packages held back.
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (Probably because of the updated sonames I'm realizing.)
 also because additional dependencies
 upgrade won't install packages that have additional dependencies
[03:29] <arraybolt3[m]> True. I was just trying to reproduce that issue from earlier.
 full-upgrade or dist-upgrade will install *every package* that's pending including dependencies
 there was an issue earlier?
[03:30] <arraybolt3[m]> @teward001: Yeah, lemme dig it up...
[03:30] <arraybolt3[m]> @teward001: https://pastebin.com/fqh2UwXm
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> This is from a user called panuweb from earleir.
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> s/earleir/earlier/
 ye that's going to be because soname bump.  you'll have to rebuild the entire stack of apps each time
 which is why Backports are inherently 'unsupported' and will break things
 "@teward001: https://pastebin.com..." <- Those env vars and package versions have me SO confused.
[03:56] <tsimonq2> Line 21
 ... what env vars
 those aren't env vars
[03:57] <arraybolt3[m]> You're right, something's fishy there.
 those're excerpts from the apt history.log file
[03:57] <arraybolt3[m]> lxqt-panel 1.1.0-5???
 oh that
[03:57]  * arraybolt3[m] checks Launchpad
 i'd like to see what apt cache policy says about lxqt-panel
 apt-cache policy  *
[03:58] <arraybolt3[m]> It should be 1.1.0-0ubuntu2~ppa1
[03:58] <arraybolt3[m]> At any rate, I couldn't reproduce the problem in a VM on my end, and I tried twice, so...
 i'll bet you they're using Debian and not Ubuntu
[03:58] <tsimonq2> @teward001: NSS, I said those two as separate items ;)
 or using Debian repos
[03:58]  * arraybolt3[m] checks Debian
 *pushes Simon into the abyss anyways* oops
[03:58] <tsimonq2> See also 126-EOF
 *sips his steamed milk steamer with vanillaflavor instead*
[03:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Nah, latest version in Experimental in Debian is 1.1.0-1 (so says the tracker)
 (is midnight here)
 see now i want to see their apt sources.list
 and apt-cache policy outputs
[03:59] <arraybolt3[m]> So where on Planet Cyberearth did they find a 1.1.0-5?!?!???!!????!
 because it SOUNDS like they have chaos going on
 self-compiled crap maybe? (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3[m]> So where on Planet Cyberearth did they find a 1.1.0-5?!?!???!!????!)
[04:00] <arraybolt3[m]> They might be using Debian and trying to build the packages themselves like Debian says if you're gonna use an Ubuntu PPA.
[04:00] <tsimonq2> Hmm... I've seen that once before
[04:00] <tsimonq2> Hold the phone
[04:00]  * arraybolt3[m] throws the phone
[04:00] <arraybolt3[m]> at teward001
 there's a rule that I use for yelling at people: If you mix Debian and Ubuntu or Mint and Ubuntu or other flavors of Ubuntu and Debian and non-official-flavors, you did it wrong and have broken your system so.
[04:01] <tsimonq2> https://lxqt-project.org/blog/2022/05/06/latest-lxqt-debian-ubuntu/
 and then i propmtly yell xD
 oh wow they're using lxqt-project's repos
 well that's gonna deffo break with the backports
[04:01] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~severusseptimius/+archive/ubuntu/lxqt
 because that includes *all* the LXQt libraries
 time to tell the user they dun goofed
[04:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Sure enough.
[04:01] <tsimonq2> yeah and they use Debian revisions so that definitely directly conflicts with the archive LOL
[04:01] <arraybolt3[m]> That's not the Lubuntu Backports PPA.
 yep yep
[04:01] <tsimonq2> https://lxqt-project.org/blog/2022/05/06/latest-lxqt-debian-ubuntu/
[04:02] <tsimonq2> Someone want to tell upstream they're a doofus for recommending that PPA?
[04:02]  * tsimonq2 isn't on the LC anymore, that's above my pay grade :P
 we should put a disclaimer on the Lubuntu Backports PPA and page: "THIS IS NOT GUARANTEED TO WORK IF YOU USE ANY OTHER PPAS FOR YOUR APPLICATIONS OR LXQT STUFF"
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe they tried to install both PPAs?
 tsimonq2: you're on the debian lxqt team and Lubuntu release manager after the recent votes, go yell at them yourself
[04:02]  * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: (188KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/IGrOJngitNsYIkQtCdguvXoQ/image.png >
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Perhaps the LXQt PPA works just fine on its own, and Lubuntu Backports works just fine on its own, but mix the two and they go boom?
 i need sleep so.  *offlines*
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Ey!
[04:03]  * arraybolt3[m] didn't do that
[04:03]  * tsimonq2 doses @teward001 with 10 grams of melatonin
[04:03] <tsimonq2> night night
[04:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Night @teward001
 actually lower doses are quite effective,i take 5mg melatonina night :P (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> doses @teward001 with 10 grams of melatonin)
[04:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Imagine mixing PPAs of different packages not breaking things.
 with doc approvals of course.
 anyways, nini
[04:03] <tsimonq2> lubot: I take 3 but at one point was up to 10 mg
[04:04] <tsimonq2> Okay, come on guys, let's not roast them that hard.
[04:04] <tsimonq2> Like, I know, should be a no-brainer. Some users are just like that though, lol.
[04:04] <tsimonq2> Learning curve. We've all been there.
[04:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, just jaded. 
[04:05] <arraybolt3[m]> https://imgflip.com/i/6nf34y
[04:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, I know the backports is the new, shiny hotness, but where are we with the Cala SRU?
[04:07] <arraybolt3[m]> (Probably should've made it more clear by putting "Aaron" somewhere on the guy)
[04:07] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: One moment, I'll pull it up.
[04:07] <arraybolt3[m]> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/+bug/1980180
[04:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> I, for one, don't know how to directly answer Brian's question.
[04:08] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/discussions/2281
[04:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: The only real way I can think to answer is to do two installs, one with the old Calamares, one with the new, then diff -r the two installs and see what happens.
[04:09] <arraybolt3[m]> That will objectively tell us how different the results are.
[04:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: The problem there is that we have no way of testing that afaik.
[04:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> Because we'd have to see the .iso image as well.
[04:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Sure we do. Package Calamares 3.2.60, throw it in a PPA, and have me install it in a live env.
[04:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Then I'll do the install with it.
[04:10] <arraybolt3[m]> We've done similar tricks in Kinetic.
[04:10] <tsimonq2> Am I the only one that knows how to answer Brian's question? Looked at it and started typing a response :P
[04:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): You're uniquely qualified here as you understand the inner-workings of Calamares better than anyone else.
[04:11] <tsimonq2> You're going to hate my answer...
[04:12] <tsimonq2> We need to look at all of the changelogs for the in-between versions and determine whether any of those feature changes required configuration changes. Configuration changes easily means that the way the installer interacts with the end system has changed.
[04:13]  * arraybolt3[m] throws the phone again
[04:13] <tsimonq2> So the real question is not, what does the Calamares update change? It is, do we need any settings changes in order to update to the new version, and if so, what are they?
[04:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK. That makes sense.
[04:13]  * arraybolt3[m] picks the phone back up - that wasn't as bad as I thought
[04:14] <tsimonq2> Okay, hold on, he's also asking a more general question. Think about this...
[04:15] <tsimonq2> All Calamares really does is copy the squashfs over and do a bunch of changes to the host system to make that squashfs work 
[04:16] <tsimonq2> You could probably do a diff between the resulting partitions. Gonna be really messy though
[04:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
[04:16] <tsimonq2> I say we have at most five days to upload this thing 
[04:17] <arraybolt3[m]> We also have Andrew waiting on us to upload stuff to LXQt while DebConf is happening.
[04:17] <arraybolt3[m]> So... which one takes priority?
[04:18] <tsimonq2> Calamares
[04:18] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[04:18] <tsimonq2> See if you can enlist some help from Dan 
[04:19] <tsimonq2> Think about it like this...
[04:19] <tsimonq2> Debian doesn't freeze until January. 22.04.1 releases in early August. What's the bigger priority?
[04:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, makes good sense to me.
[04:19]  * arraybolt3[m] clones calamares-packaging
[04:19] <tsimonq2> We have minimum 7 days before the initial ISOs are spun
[04:20] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: I will be much more critical on any SRU than any development upload. It's partly why I want someone else to handle stable releases, it's a lot of work.
[04:21] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: And you haven't even gotten to the hard part yet.
[04:21] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I'll go slow and careful.
[04:21] <tsimonq2> Please read this entire page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[04:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Oy. OK.
[04:22] <tsimonq2> You will have a much better appreciation for the stability of Ubuntu after reading that 
[04:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, this will be a good exercise for you to handle, arraybolt3 . I've handled countless SRUs at this point (quassel was a good example), and doing an SRU provides great experience.
[04:33] <tsimonq2> I would say you're okay to pass off future SRUs to me or Dan if they don't interest you, but yeah, please learn the process and do it at least once. That way you have an understanding for what to do when we go bug hunting
[04:33] <tsimonq2> "It's wabbit season"
[04:33] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[04:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Man, it's almost midnight where I'm at, I'm not hardly understanding what I'm reading in the SRU document.
[04:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> I even just got done doing a combined FFe/SRU for a late change to 22.04 for 22.04.1 for Studio (neglected omission of libreoffice-calc, weird situation).
[04:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Is there some terminology document I can refer to?
[04:35] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Same time here, how can I help?
[04:35] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: What's the terminology you're stuck on?
[04:35] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know what an SRU review round trip is.
[04:36] <tsimonq2> What's the full context?
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> That was the first one, there were others, but I just backed way up, so...
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> When you don't want to fix a subsequent interim release at all
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> We recognise that making it a hard requirement to fix all subsequent interim releases would mandate more work, and that a team may not have the resources available to fix and verify (say) an LTS as well as a subsequent interim release that has fewer users. We wouldn't want to block a fix from landing at all, so we are not making it a hard requirement that subsequent interim releases be fixed.
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> However, we strongly recommend that subsequent interim releases be fixed, and it is our expectation that normally uploaders will ensure this. If you are unable to do this, then please: 1) create and mark bug tasks against the subsequent affected releases "Won't Fix"; and 2) explicitly state in the bug that you are deliberately seeking to fix a release without fixing the subsquent releases. An SRU team member may then accept your
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> upload at their discretion and on a case-by-case basis. If this is not done, then uploaders should expect an SRU review round trip while your intentions are clarified.
[04:37] <tsimonq2> Round trip meaning, going through the entire process
[04:38] <tsimonq2> To translate that sentence... "If this is not done, then uploaders should expect a delay and perhaps re-upload while your intentions are clarified."
[04:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, OK.
[04:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, "To stage an upload, follow the usual process but additionally add a block-proposed-<series> tag to at least one of the SRU bugs together with a comment explaining the reason for the staging." Fantastic, so what *is* the usual process?
[04:38] <tsimonq2> It's further up
[04:39] <tsimonq2> Edit the bug description to include things like Test Case, keeping the original description at the bottom under its own header 
[04:39] <tsimonq2> Then, to stage an upload, you do that same process, where you make the bug report, but you add an additional tag to it 
[04:40] <tsimonq2> And that bug gets ~ubuntu-sru subscribed to it. That's how they're alerted
[04:40] <tsimonq2> Britney automatically blocks packages from migrating if there's a bug filed against it with the block-proposed tag
[04:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, so there's two bugs, one with the issue, and then one later when you're ready to really SRU it.
[04:40] <tsimonq2> Nope, one bug
[04:41] <tsimonq2> You can edit your original bug description 
[04:41] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer @eickmeyer:matrix.org: Got an example handy?
[04:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Sorry, my brain is lost, thank you for your help.
[04:41] <tsimonq2> All good. Perhaps some sleep will help, I know I'm hitting the hay soon. Long day
[04:42] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: If you don't get to this by about Friday afternoon I'll be jumping in fwiw :)
[04:42] <arraybolt3[m]> The Wiki doesn't seem to even say anything about subscribing ~ubuntu-sru, it has something about ubuntu-sponsors?
[04:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm guessing the one team must be a subset of the other one.
[04:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, the bit about staging just clicked. OK, that's good.
[04:44] <tsimonq2> I guess I once was a member of ~ubuntu-sponsors. I can join again
[04:44] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~tsimonq2/+participation
[04:45] <arraybolt3[m]> So the block-proposed-<series> tag tells Britney, "Leave this in Proposed, it needs more testing"?
[04:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): On it.
[04:46] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yes
[04:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, that makes sense! OK, not all hope is lost!
[04:46] <tsimonq2> If you haven't already, please also read this entire page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration (less urgent)
[04:46] <tsimonq2> I've linked it a few times 
[04:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> bug 1980901 is the combined FFe/SRU I was mentioning.
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. (I've not read it yet, trying to keep up with everything is hard)
[04:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> As you can see, it hasn't quite passed the 7-day gestation.
[04:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice, that's a good overview for me to refer to.
[04:48] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: All good. There's a reason this takes time
[04:50] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer[m]: That's "the round trip"
[04:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> tsimonq2: Indeed.
[04:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> That is also a decent overview of a typical Feature Freeze exception.
[04:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> s/overview/example
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> If the reported autopkgtest regression is not a real regression or not a regression caused by the proposed update (but instead broken by some other dependency), the analysis of this has to be documented for the SRU team. The generally recommended way is commenting on one of the SRU bugs for the upload. Once the rationale is submitted and approved/validated by an SRU member, the SRU team will add a badtest or reset-test hint for
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> the broken package and release the update as per usual procedures (once validation and aging is complete). Alternatively, the uploader/verifier can modify the hints and provide an MP in the bug along with the rationale. Useful input here can be re-running the failing test against only the release/updates pocket, as documented in the ProposedMigration wiki page.
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> What is an "MP"?
[04:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> Merge Proposal, much like a Pull Request, but in Bazaar-speak, which is how versioning used to be handled in Ubuntu.
[04:57] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[04:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> Some components, such as Ubiquity and ubuntu-cdimage, are still handled that way.
[04:58]  * Eickmeyer[m] needs to head to bed before his dog goes nuts wondering why he isn't in bed yet.
[05:06] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, I digested the SRU page, ProposedMigration will have to wait until my head clears. But I'm halfway there!
[05:09] <tsimonq2> Sweet!
 ack (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons @teward001 arraybolt3 guiverc Rober Leo K @lynorian @The_LoudSpeaker - please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-devel/2022-July/001930.html)
 Done (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons @teward001 arraybolt3 guiverc Rober Leo K @lynorian @The_LoudSpeaker - please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-devel/2022-July/001930.html)
 "Dan Simmons @teward001 arraybolt..." <- /me has doodled
 Ack. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons @teward001 arraybolt3 guiverc Rober Leo K @lynorian @The_LoudSpeaker - please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-devel/2022-July/001930.html)
 Is lxqt 1.1 working on debian?  In 32 bits it gives me a dependency error.
 https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/e2965334/image_2022_07_21_15_14_52.png
[15:55] <tsimonq2> Current candidate is Thurs at 4 PM UTC-5
[15:56] <tsimonq2> Rober: Did you plan on voting on the Doodle poll? Ditto with Raman
[15:57] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: That will actually work for me better than I thought initially.
 i look at it now, thanks (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Rober: Did you plan on voting on the Doodle poll? Ditto with Raman)
 Done (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Rober: Did you plan on voting on the Doodle poll? Ditto with Raman)
[16:19] <tsimonq2> Thank you!
[16:21] <tsimonq2> guiverc: I'm ready to decide on 4 PM UTC-5 Thursday which looks like the earlier morning your time. For Raman it's like 3 in the morning. We can always take your pastes beforehand. Is it okay if we decide on that?
[16:22] <tsimonq2> And we can even have our first standup today.
[16:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Would it be horrible if I wanted to ask that we delay it until next week to start? Things have been going crazy on my end and so having the added stress of an impromptu standup would be a bit much.
[16:23] <tsimonq2> It's always pretty lax either way, unless there's questions 
[16:23] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, that's good.
[16:23] <tsimonq2> If you can't participate this week it's cool :) or just give me a Markdown-formatted bullet point list of what you've done over the last week
[16:24] <tsimonq2> I can paste it in for you
[16:24] <arraybolt3[m]> I think I can participate.
[16:24] <arraybolt3[m]> (Sorry if I'm a bit jumpy today...)
[16:25]  * arraybolt3[m] gets breakfast and then preps for standup and Calamares SRU
[16:25] <tsimonq2> You're all good. I'm about to be afk to run a quick errand then probably working on EMR until that time
[16:25] <tsimonq2> After the standup I can catch you up with sponsorship requests
[16:27] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/discussions/2281
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Quick question in relation to the copyright file - There are a bunch of files in the CI directory of the GitHub repo for Calamares, are those supposed to be left out of the copyright file?
[18:22] <arraybolt3[m]> (I think I'm supposed to add them.)
[18:23] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Well, let me ask you this. Is it code that builds something in some context? 
[18:23] <tsimonq2> Source, not already built 
[18:24] <arraybolt3[m]> It is source code, do you mean, does it do building, or is it built into something?
[18:24] <tsimonq2> The latter, mostly
[18:25] <tsimonq2> It's used as a source file by the CI
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> It's all .py and .sh files, except for one .c file that consists of nothing but a comment.
[18:25] <tsimonq2> Someone had to write that source file 
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, but does it end up in the packaging?
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> If it never ends up part of Ubuntu, is there any reason to include it in the copyright file?
[18:25] <tsimonq2> The packaging must document all of the source code in copyright, so you tell me :)
[18:26] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Well, it ends up in the source package 
[18:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. OK, that makes sense.
[18:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (And I didn't realize it ended up in the source package.)
[18:26] <tsimonq2> Any user can enable a line in their apt sources config file and download the source code
[18:26] <tsimonq2> For any package 
[18:26] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, then I guess a lot of the work in the Calamares SRU is going to be wrangling the 700+ times that "Copyright" showed up between Calamares 3.2.41 and Calamares 3.2.60.
[18:27] <arraybolt3[m]> 753 to be exact.
[18:28] <tsimonq2> As long as you're using git diff and not grepping individual changelogs you may be able to keep your sanity.
[18:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Yep, I'm using git diff.
[18:28] <arraybolt3[m]> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/compare/v3.2.41...v3.2.60.diff
[18:29] <tsimonq2> "He's learning" 👏🤣
[18:29] <arraybolt3[m]> It looks like a lot of it is UI elements.
[18:29] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah, probably 
[18:31] <tsimonq2> Eat that elephant one bite at a time.
[18:31] <tsimonq2> I know I'm not one to usually recommend such a thing, but if Featherpad doesn't have diff collapsing yet, paste that thing in Kate
[18:32] <tsimonq2> You click an arrow on the left side and it'll collapse entire files for you so you know they're reviewed 
[18:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Not a bad idea. Probably a lot better than doing it in Chrome.
[18:32]  * tsimonq2 would wget the file
[18:32] <tsimonq2> Open in Kate
[18:32] <arraybolt3[m]> (Yes, I installed Chrome on my developer laptop. I know...)
[18:33] <tsimonq2> I mean, the alternative is copy/pasting it :P
[18:33] <tsimonq2> So :P
[18:33] <tsimonq2> I do that for smaller diffs...
[18:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Holy cow. The diff is over 18 MB.
[18:34] <tsimonq2> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[18:35] <tsimonq2> Okay okay so in this case... just clone the upstream Git repo locally and do the git diff, piping it to a file. Exclude all those stupid translation files :P
[18:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I like this idea!
[18:36] <tsimonq2> (That's the diff size. Translation files aren't stupid, let me clarify. But most of that diff is probably translations.)
[18:36]  * arraybolt3[m] made the... mistake? of installing stock Ubuntu 22.04 on my laptop and now I've got GEdit to work with, which turns out to be worse than Chrome for this task
[18:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh wait, there we go, figured out how to make it work... I think?)
[18:38] <tsimonq2> Okay so your syntax is going to look roughly like this: `git diff TAG1 TAG2 !(translations) > long.diff`
[18:38] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, that makes sense.
[18:38] <tsimonq2> Give or take depending on personal preference 
[18:39] <tsimonq2> You have to think... that's a years worth of translations updates to many many strings in 40+ languages
[18:39] <tsimonq2> Ofc it's going to be 18 MB :P
[18:39] <tsimonq2> Even if the translations haven't changed, the strings have 
[18:42] <tsimonq2> Rober: Not sure if you have programming experience or would like to learn as a little side project, but essentially we need a tool that will grab all of the git diffs from various upstream projects like above and review/import it into our own packaging 
[18:43] <tsimonq2> Imagine the kind of impact you could have if all of that information and links to all of those websites were put in one place, where you could then instruct contributors on how to translate in their free time. Promote it in the release notes and such
[18:44] <tsimonq2> If you want me to handle the technical side, I can, just let me know. If you have experience or would have the time and willingness to learn, I could teach you
 @Roberalz ^ :)
[18:46] <tsimonq2> @lynorian @teward001: Where did we leave off a few years back with translations for the Lubuntu Manual?
[18:46] <tsimonq2> And how can we streamline that process if possible? 
[18:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Well, sadly, excluding the translations is going to be hard. I can't see how to make git diff exclude just the lang directory, and the way they names the files with translations is going to be hard to exclude them without also excluding things that I need.
[18:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Time to eat the elephant.
[18:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Difficult or impossible? 
[18:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Probably impossible.
[18:49] <arraybolt3[m]> calamares_as.ts           calamares_en_GB.ts  calamares_gu.ts        calamares_kn.ts     calamares_pt_BR.ts     calamares_tg.ts     kb_tg.ts... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/beb1fee74c92a32b06b1ef3914c15c0b88e9ff3f)
[18:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Also, the files begin with valid copyright headers I believe, so excluding them all could mean missing important data.
 My programming knowledge is very rusty.  I haven't done anything for years.  I think I could try something but I would need to understand how git diffs work first xD (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Rober: Not sure if you have programming experience or would like to learn as a little side project, but essentially we need a tool that will grab all of the git diffs from various upstream projects like above and review/import it into o
[18:50] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Wrong. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10415100/exclude-file-from-git-diff?answertab=trending#tab-top
[18:51] <tsimonq2> In case you want to enhance your Google-fu, this was my entire search: git diff exclude files which match pattern
[18:51] <tsimonq2> First result :P
[18:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Bah, I was using my man-fu and ignoring Google entirely.
[18:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (Bah as in "Why didn't I think of that?")
[18:52] <tsimonq2> Rober: That's okay, once we get past Feature Freeze we can really spend time on a lot of this stuff 
 I meant to program now under that reference. :p (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> In case you want to enhance your Google-fu, this was my entire search: git diff exclude files which match pattern)
 I would suggest spending some time playing with Python. It's my go-to language for this sort of thing. Easy to understand and very readable (re @Roberalz: I meant to program now under that reference. :p)
 And, when you're playing with something small there, you can also introduce Git into the mix
 Whenever you're ready I'm happy to link you to resources (which are very likely available in Spanish ;)) or walk you through
[19:02] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: Lmk what's going on with your stuff too :)
[19:02] <tsimonq2> Beautiful day. Opting to take the dog for a walk
 I'll look into learning python then, while also studying the lpic2 certification :) (re @tsimonq2: Whenever you're ready I'm happy to link you to resources (which are very likely available in Spanish ;)) or walk you through)
[19:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Thanks! So far I've started to get through the copyright file, and I discovered a gedit bug!
[19:03] <arraybolt3[m]> (Load an ~18 MB file into gedit, then fiddle with the search just right and you can get the window to go black!)
 Is a feature :/ (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3[m]> (Load an ~18 MB file into gedit, then fiddle with the search just right and you can get the window to go black!))
[19:04] <arraybolt3[m]> No. Not possible. No one wants their screen to go black.
[19:04] <arraybolt3[m]> (Is it really a feature???)
[19:05] <arraybolt3[m]> (I was trying to be funny...)
 Hahahah (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3[m]> (I was trying to be funny...))
 Maybe a bug because of the file size?
[19:06] <arraybolt3[m]> I'd guess so. I was able to fix it by changing my theme to Cobalt, so I can still see what I'm doing.
 Mmmmm
 https://askubuntu.com/questions/1307503/gedit-background-becomes-black-when-i-open-a-very-large-file
[19:10] <arraybolt3[m]> @Roberalz: Solution! https://askubuntu.com/questions/1307503/gedit-background-becomes-black-when-i-open-a-very-large-file/1419834#1419834
[19:12] <Rober[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Is it just because it changes color?  Well done!!!! 
 The same file works in featherpad?
[19:14] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't know, I could check later. It might work in FeatherPad since FeatherPad is Qt, and the bug in gedit is in GTK I believe.
[19:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh nice, Ctrl+W is Find in Nano and Close File in gedit. \o/ 🤦‍♂️
 Let me know how I can help :) (re @Roberalz: I'll look into learning python then, while also studying the lpic2 certification :))
[19:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Any special procedure for when the copyright owner of a file is given as a URL? The copyright owner of one file in Calamares is literally given as "https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/fonts".
[19:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Digging around in the website reveals the "company name" to be "Font All Free".
[19:46] <tsimonq2> You can use website metadata 
[19:46] <arraybolt3[m]> The contact us link doesn't do anything.
[19:47] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: What's that?
[19:47] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Website author and title
[19:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Do you mean like meta tags in the head?
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Yes, if they're there 
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, OK. So like "Copyright 2019 Font All Free <onlinewebfonts.com>"?
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. Man, sometimes copyright file updates can take you down some interesting rabbit holes...
[19:49] <tsimonq2> I'm going to check with my personal council of developers to see if what I just told you is kosher...
[20:04]  * tsimonq2 cracks his knuckles
[20:04] <tsimonq2> !standup
[20:05] <tsimonq2> T-55 minutes
[20:05]  * arraybolt3[m] rushes to finish copyright file update before standup time
[20:05] <tsimonq2> Rober: ^^^^
[20:06] <tsimonq2> HAHAHAHA we kept the same standup time
[20:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): The bot command didn't ping me, is that by design or oversight?
[20:06] <tsimonq2> Oversight until teward fixes it. :P
[20:07] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. Well my system dings any time anything happens in here, so I'll still be notified.
[20:07] <tsimonq2> This is probably one of the only non-personal channels I keep on full blast, so me too :P
[20:08]  * tsimonq2 goes afk for about 10 mins to bother my younger brother at work ;)
[20:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Please, if we ever write any software together, let's settle on ONE LICENSE and do it like that. Calamares has at least three in the mix and it's blowing my mind up 🤯
[20:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Whenever you get back, what do I do when there's two email addresses for the same person in the copyright data? Anke Boersma has two addresses, sometimes he puts one, other times he puts another. Do I list both, and if so, what format is preferred?
 I might be a little late for this first one. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> T-55 minutes)
 Just arrived!
[20:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew, finally got that copyright file done. I went ahead and listed both email addresses the way they were put in the files - if it needs fixed, you'll notice and be able to tell me what to do, but I erred on the side of being overly verbose.
[20:53] <tsimonq2> ## We're 8 minutes out, wave if you're present 
[20:53] <tsimonq2> o/
[20:53] <arraybolt3[m]> o/
[20:53] <LeoK[m]> o/
[20:54] <tsimonq2> @kc2bez: No problem, just wave when you get here 
[20:55] <tsimonq2> #startmeeting Lubuntu Standup 20220721
[20:55] <meetingology> Meeting started at 20:55:58 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[20:56] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[20:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew, finished my list just in the nick of time! LOL
[20:58] <tsimonq2> # Welcome to the first Lubuntu standup of 2022!
[20:58] <tsimonq2> This is an informal, short-notice reboot of the old-style Lubuntu standups, modeled after the Ubuntu Foundations meetings.
[20:58] <tsimonq2> I'll ping you when you're up, and as the chair I'll go last. If you're interested in chairing a future meeting, let me know.
[20:58] <tsimonq2> As a reminder, paste a bullet point list of what you've been working on over the last week. When everyone is done, we'll go to AOB where anyone can ask questions.
 Ok, thanks (re @tsimonq2: Let me know how I can help :))
[20:59] <tsimonq2> These meetings will happen every week on Thursday at 4 PM UTC-5. If you can't make it, please send the chair the meeting items beforehand
[20:59] <tsimonq2> @Roberalz: Is that you waving? XD
[20:59] <tsimonq2> Anyway.
[20:59] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org: Putting you on the hot plate. You go first.
[21:00] <arraybolt3[m]> One moment, copypasta is being grumpy...
[21:00] <arraybolt3[m]> * Attended DebConf 2022 LXQt team BOF remotely to learn about the new procedures for contributing to LXQt in Debian.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f9a65d1db902bab86c902b9dba000361d8005181)
[21:01] <tsimonq2> Thank you! Leo K do you have anything to share?
[21:01] <LeoK[m]> https://pastebin.com/ec1mfgTS
[21:01] <tsimonq2> Nice! I think I've seen both of those bugs flow through the channel here. Thank you!
[21:02] <tsimonq2> Rober @Roberalz: Anything to share?
 Yes
 The menu has some entrees that are still in English.  I have translated them but they are pending to put each one in its place except lubuntu-update-notifier
 https://github.com/Roberalz/lubuntu-global-applications
[21:04] <tsimonq2> Nice! Anything else?
 Global support at this moment...
 Nothing else
[21:06] <tsimonq2> I expected this meeting to have a fairly low attendance due to the short notice but I wanted to get it rolling. If anyone else is running late or has their own items to share, paste them in over the next 20-30 or so minutes.
[21:06] <tsimonq2> Thank you!
[21:06] <tsimonq2> I appreciate your work with translations
 Thanks
[21:09] <LeoK[m]> Thanks Aaron and Rober nice work indeed! Thanks also Simon - we are heading in right direction..
 Thanks to all!
[21:12] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️ Looks like things are going good! Thanks to everyone also!
[21:14] <LeoK[m]> Called away ...take care all and thanks again .
[21:15] <tsimonq2> I know I said I'd wait longer but we can always catch up after :)
[21:16] <tsimonq2> ## [ AOB? ]
[21:16] <arraybolt3[m]> I had an idea for the AOB period, so whenever it's started, I'm ready.
[21:16] <arraybolt3[m]> (Er, an idea to share during that period.)
[21:16] <tsimonq2> Now :)
[21:17] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I was thinking, if we're all going to come together to share what we've done, the time immediately after the standup would be the best time to plan out what we're going to do next
[21:17] <arraybolt3[m]> That way, rather than having a hazy "this needs done at some point", if we're like , "Let's get XYZ done this week", we may make much faster progress.
[21:17] <arraybolt3[m]> (I know a deadline helps to drive me along at least.)
[21:17] <tsimonq2> Well, let's see, what's coming up?
[21:18] <tsimonq2> We have 22.04.1 coming up at the beginning of August and Feature Freeze at the end of August
[21:18] <tsimonq2> What are the blockers for both of those as it stands right now?
[21:18] <tsimonq2> lubuntu-update-notifier is one
[21:18] <tsimonq2> Calamares SRU is the other 
[21:19] <tsimonq2> And perhaps a few minor LXQt fixes if we can squeeze them in... otherwise shoot for 22.04.2
[21:19] <arraybolt3[m]> This might be a bit ambitious, but there's one gripe I have with the Lubuntu UI that I would love to see fixed in Kinetic. This would be before the Feature Freeze.
[21:19] <tsimonq2> Yeah? 
[21:19] <arraybolt3[m]> (Mainly the inability to maximize, restore, and snap windows by dragging the title bar the way KDE lets you do.)
[21:20] <arraybolt3[m]> We'd probably have to write new code for OpenBox to make that happen, but that's the one feature that was missing that got me to go with GNOME on my laptop rather than Lubuntu.
[21:20] <tsimonq2> Ah yes, I know exactly what you're talking about and where to find it 
[21:20] <tsimonq2> We used to have such functionality in LXQt
[21:21] <tsimonq2> *LXDE
[21:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Odd thing is, the feature works in LXQt on Debian with KWin. But not in Lubuntu with OpenBox. That's what leads me to believe that it's OpenBox's fault.
[21:21] <tsimonq2> It's all configuration. That's a deep, ancient rabbithole
[21:21] <tsimonq2> When you get to the scribe in the second cave let me know... :P
[21:22] <arraybolt3[m]> LOL so I guess that would be my candidate for third priority, after the Calamares SRU and finishing up our LXQt work in Debian.
[21:22] <tsimonq2> Right. lubuntu-update-notifier tied for third
[21:22] <tsimonq2> Anyway...
[21:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, forgot about that.
[21:23] <tsimonq2> Let's get that SRU uploaded by Monday if possible
[21:23] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍️
[21:23] <tsimonq2> If I have to step in, let me know 
[21:23] <arraybolt3[m]> So far I'm at step 9 of this document (doing the Calamares SRU):https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packaging_for_new_upstream_releases/
[21:23] <tsimonq2> Cool
[21:24] <arraybolt3[m]> And I'm packaging 3.2.60, not 3.3 or anything like that...
[21:24] <tsimonq2> Anything else we need to immediately discuss during the meeting or can I end it?
[21:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): You said you were going to go last, so that's the one thing I'm noticing that's missing.
[21:25] <tsimonq2> Oh, me? Just helping out and sponsoring stuff... :P
[21:25] <tsimonq2> #endmeeting
[21:25] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 21:25:12 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2022/lubuntu-devel.2022-07-21-20.55.moin.txt
[21:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice! Hey, I liked it. I look forward to doing it again next week!
[21:30] <kc2bez> o/ Sorry I missed the meeting. I will be better prepared for the next one.
[21:31] <kc2bez> I will read the backlog before end of my day.
[21:40]  * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: (1070KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xPvVgNyvhRqXzyCYGKuUoTQJ/image.png >
 "> <@eickmeyer:matrix.org> sent..." <- LOL I seem to vaguely remember that face and helmet, but I don't remember what from. I don't think it was LOTR, was it?
[22:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
[22:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, that's right.
[22:43] <teward> tsimonq2: you mean until ircc fixes it
[22:43] <teward> the ubots arent ours
[22:46] <kc2bez[m]> I think Walter had access to change the Lubuntu specific ones but yeah different times.
[22:49] <tsimonq2> teward: I mean you basically hold all hats ever created so :P
 "teward: I mean you basically..." <- Except IRCC.