[00:08] <junebug> sarnold, thanks. That worked. Created an autostart file in my .config folder
[00:12]  * knusbaum waves
[00:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, how's it going? Anything we can help you with?
[00:13] <knusbaum> Hello, I'm looking into .deb packaging on Ubuntu, based on this guide: https://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html
[00:13] <knusbaum> There's a note partway through that says "Note: unfortunately the bzr dh-make subcommand is no longer available in releases later than Ubuntu 20.04; so, you might need a container or virtual machine (see LXD) running Ubuntu 20.04 for this particular step."
[00:13] <eelstrebor> I don't what changed but i can't play anything with vlc. tried re-installing - no go. Playing a youtube video from firefox works OK so the speaker setup is OK. Nothing shows muted. ubuntu 20.04.4
[00:14] <knusbaum> Is there a new replacement for that command? I'd rather not learn a mechanism that is being removed from future Ubuntu versions.
[00:14] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: BZR is all-but-unused in modern Ubuntu packaging.
[00:14] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: My workflow consists mostly of Git, sbuild, and debuild.
[00:14] <eelstrebor> rebooting didn't help either
[00:15] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: Do the videos just refuse to open?
[00:15] <knusbaum> arraybolt3[m], is there a more up-to-date guide? I'm looking at setting up my own ppa.
[00:15] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: I don't know of a more up-to-date guide, I was trained by an Ubuntu core dev.
[00:15] <eelstrebor> arraybolt3[m], videos open fine - just no audio
[00:16] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: However, I'll link to the docs that can get you going.
[00:16] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
[00:16] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: https://wiki.debian.org/sbuild
[00:16] <eelstrebor> i just tried another video player and no sound on it either
[00:17] <eelstrebor> vlc was working fine yesterday
[00:17] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: Hmm, check your sound settings and see if maybe sounds other than system sounds have been muted or something.
[00:18] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: The fact that multiple video players are having the same sound problem is a bit worrisome though. What was the last thing you did to your sound?
[00:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Did you fiddle with the guts of your system at all?
[00:18] <knusbaum> arraybolt3[m], Thanks a bunch!
[00:19] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: No problem, glad to help!
[00:19] <sarnold> junebug: woohoo! :)
[00:19] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: If you need to check your sound settings, click the System Menu in the upper-right corner, click Settings, then find Sound in the menu on the left.
[00:19] <eelstrebor> arraybolt3[m], nothing - i played some videos through vlc last night and they were OK.
[00:20] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: Also, is this every video that's having this problem, or just one? If it's just one, it might be the video's fault.
[00:20] <eelstrebor> i already checked sound settings - the speaker test couldn't say left or right channel
[00:21] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: Oh dear, that's not the video's fault then. But Firefox is still working... hmm...
[00:21] <eelstrebor> it's more than one video - i use vlc to stream video and i can't get sound that way either
[00:22] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: I have a silly suggestion. Can you uninstall the apt version of VLC and install it through the Snap Store instead? That will give me more info about where the problem is.
[00:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (Firefox is a Snap, so if VLC suddenly works when you install it as a Snap, that may mean that the problem has something to do with Snaps.)
[00:23] <eelstrebor> i'm going to test the video streams with my laptop first to see if it has the same issue
[00:26] <arraybolt3[m]> eelstrebor: I'd also be interested in knowing what happens if you open a terminal and run "speaker-test" - does that play any white noise, and if not, does it give an error message? (You can stop the white noise playback with Ctrl+C, though it will take a while before it stops.)
[00:26] <eelstrebor> arraybolt3[m], the laptop works fine so it's an issue with the desktop. they both are ubuntu 20.04.4 and vlc 3.0.9.2
[00:27] <eelstrebor> speaker-test run from the cli gives a bunch of noise that i'm receiving noise from an off-air radio station
[00:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Ubuntu 20.04... ok that's very weird since Firefox is still an apt package there I believe, which means... what? Why on earth would everything but Firefox not be able to play audio?
[00:27] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, press Ctrl+C to make it stop.
[00:28] <eelstrebor> firefox plays video ok
[00:28] <arraybolt3[m]> That's good to know.
[00:28] <eelstrebor> vlc does not
[00:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Start a video playing in VLC and then check the audio settings while VLC is playing the video.
[00:29] <dell-simon-linux> hello world
[00:29] <arraybolt3[m]> dell-simon-linux: 👋
[00:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Anything we can help you with?
[00:29] <dell-simon-linux> just passing by
[00:30] <eelstrebor> arraybolt3[m], found the problem - it was set to playback to the wrong device - i don't know how that got changed without my manual setting of it. maybe i was sleep walking last night.
[00:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. That explains it, glad you got it sorted out!
[00:32] <eelstrebor> thanks for your help
[00:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Sure thing, glad to help!
[00:32] <dell-simon-linux> aaa
[00:33] <dell-simon-linux> gtg good night yall
[00:34] <arraybolt3[m]> 👋 If anything ever goes wrong with your Ubuntu system feel free to ask here,
[00:34] <arraybolt3[m]> dell-simon-linux: Also, if you're interested in casual chat we also have #ubuntu-offtopic:libera.chat.
[00:34] <sarnold> arraybolt3[m]: dell-simon-linux left 45 seconds earlier :)
[00:35] <sarnold> matrix practically encourages people to talk to ghosts
[00:35] <arraybolt3[m]> sarnold: Ah, once again, Matrix didn't tell me.
[00:35] <arraybolt3[m]> In fact he's still listed as being here in Matrix.
[00:35] <sarnold> *snort*
[00:37] <arraybolt3[m]> And this is what I mean about IRC being faster. I really should switch over.
[00:37] <arraybolt3[m]> At least partially. /me will now stop going off-topic
[01:22] <arkanoid> what's the quickest way to create menu/clickable icon that runs a shell command?
[01:23] <arkanoid> talking abount gnome / default gui configuration
[01:23] <enigma9o7[m]> desktop file
[01:24] <enigma9o7[m]> the quickest way for me would be to copy a desktop file I already wrote and edit it.
[01:24] <enigma9o7[m]> alternatively take any one you already have and edit it
[01:24] <enigma9o7[m]> in ~/.local/share/applications
[01:25] <arkanoid> writing a desktop file is not really straightforward. I just need an alias or something like that that I can click. Something similar to "create desktop/toolbar/pin I have in windows"
[01:26] <enigma9o7[m]> Well you said quickest.  You could already be done if you'd just copied an existing desktop file and edited it.
[02:03] <genii> !logs
[02:18] <jhutchins> Thunderbird is s
[02:18] <jhutchins> arkanoid: The first step is to forget everything you know about how it works in Windows.
[02:36] <arraybolt3[m]> arkanoid: Open a new text file, type "#!/bin/bash", hit Enter, type the shell command. save it with a .sh file name extension. Set it executable. Boom.
[02:36] <arkanoid> arraybolt3[m]: I  eed
[02:36] <arkanoid> I need a click able icon
[02:37] <enigma9o7[m]> did you not do tht already an hour ago?
[02:37] <arraybolt3[m]> arkanoid: Double-click the shell script and it should execute (though it might take an extra confirmation that you really want it to execute).
[02:37] <arkanoid> arraybolt3[m]:  no, it opens it as text file even if executable flag is set
[02:37] <arraybolt3[m]> enigma9o7: Maybe he needs this for a lot of shell commands and is looking for a quick way so he can do it over and over?
[02:38] <arraybolt3[m]> arkanoid: Poke around in Nautilus's settings thing, I think I remember that you need to set it to let you execute shell scripts.
[02:38] <arraybolt3[m]> arkanoid: https://askubuntu.com/a/421537/1598467
[02:39] <jhutchins> I guess I'm lucky I'm running XFCE: Right click on desktop, choose "Create Launcher", fill out the form, save.
[02:39] <arraybolt3[m]> s/thing/then/
[02:39] <arkanoid> I know how to do a shell script, I also know how to write a .desktop file, my problem is teaching a non tech savvy person how to make own life easier without calling me every time. I can surely wrap a script that generate .desktop files or kinda something like, but I was wondering if there's already a solution
[02:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh... ok, hmm.
[02:42] <arkanoid> I need some sleep now, thanks for all the the feedbacks. I'll read later if anything comes to your mind. Bye
[02:42] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, I don't know of a pre-built solution in Ubuntu proper that does this. You may have to create your own tool for that (like your wrapper script that generates .desktop files).
[02:42] <arraybolt3[m]> arkanoid: ^ for whenever you get back
[02:48] <theZoMBiE> hello, how can i exclude a word using egrep without using the -v ? I know [^a] will exclude just the letter a but what if i want to exclude the word "apple"
[03:11] <hays> why are packages being held back even after a full-upgrade and dist-upgrade
[03:11] <hays> snapd for example
[03:17] <Bashing-om> hays: What release are you on ? Maybe our developers are afix'n snaps due to that resent bug that was found for 22.04 ??
[03:19] <hays> 22.04 is what im on
[03:24] <Bashing-om> hays: Ack - show the channel in a pastebin -- ' sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade ' so we see what you see.
[03:26] <hays> i managed to fix it by installing the packages directly
[03:28] <Bashing-om> hays: \o/
[04:19] <knusbaum> Can't seem to get mk-sbuild to work on focal. It keeps getting Permission denied when trying to write to /var/lib/schroot/chroots/
[04:19] <knusbaum> I'm running as my user, as it complains when I run it as root. I am in the sbuild group.
[05:11] <BCB> what breaks if I do "do-release-upgrade" on Ubuntu 16.04.7
[05:45] <guiverc> BCB, if you've applied all upgrades BCB it may work to release-upgrade you to a supported release (you may run into problems though depending on where you live in the world as certificates may have expired on your system/location & thus ESM upgrades need to be applied; you may get away without that too depending on location in world)
[05:46] <BCB> guiverc not worried about certs but about application breaking
[05:47] <guiverc> 16.04 ESM had reverted many desktop apps to snap packages for upgrades (for ESM support), those will be unchanged as the same snap packages run in all releases... you should have no issues if using ESM & thus were getting upgrades
[05:54]  * guiverc clarifies language; reverted maybe unclear word.. ESM support docs said to switch to snap packages in order to get security fixes applied for specific apps during ESM cycle; it wasn't automatic
[06:01] <BCB> guiverc.  everyting is backed up.  I'll give it a try.
[07:32] <arindam> hi
[07:35] <TheBigK> its correct that its officially supported to upgrade from 20.04 to 22.04 right?
[08:06] <geirha> Yes. If you're running 20.04, you should get a notification in the next few days about an upgrade to 22.04 being available
[08:11] <guiverc> TheBigK, you can see status here (https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/jammy-jellyfish-22-04-1-lts-point-release-status-tracking/29102) where the block bugs on upgrade are listed; so you can proceed (force upgrade) if you won't be hit by them
[08:11] <guiverc> s/block/blocker ^
[08:53] <omega_doom> What can i do to resolve this? The following packages have been kept back: python3-distupgrade snapd ubuntu-release-upgrader-core ubuntu-release-upgrader-gtk
[08:53] <omega_doom> apt dist-upgrade doesn't help with it.
[08:56] <Unit193> Those are phased updates where for some odd reason they deleted the current update...It's a bit of an awkward situation, but you can either downgrade, force an upgrade, or wait it out.
[08:59] <omega_doom> Unit193: deleted current update? What?
[08:59] <Unit193> Try `apt-cache policy ubuntu-release-upgrader-core`, see what it says for yourself.
[09:01] <omega_doom> Unit193: 1:22.04.13 500 (phased 50%)
[09:01] <Unit193> It'll say you have .12 or .11 installed, yes?
[09:02] <omega_doom> yes, .12 and .10 bit no .11
[09:03] <omega_doom> but no .11
[09:05] <omega_doom> Unit193: Does it mean there is an update in progress? I thought it is always atomic.
[09:05] <Unit193> Yeah, though things kind of got out of order.
[09:10] <omega_doom> Uni193: Thanks. i have never seen this before.
[09:14] <Unit193> omega_doom: I hadn't either, it's more phased updates fallout. :/
[09:15] <omega_doom> Unit193: Btw, how can i downgrade to update .12 not to see this wierd message?
[09:16] <Unit193> omega_doom: apt install python3-distupgrade=1:22.04.10 ubuntu-release-upgrader-core=1:22.04.10 ubuntu-release-upgrader-gtk=1:22.04.10
[09:17] <omega_doom> Unit193: Why 10 but not 12?
[09:18] <Unit193> 1:22.04.12 is no longer downloadable, hence why you have to upgrade to .13 or downgrade to .10.
[09:19] <gneeriiloeepdeer> how would I open a readable .db file?
[09:19] <gneeriiloeepdeer> key4.db, thunderbird
[09:22] <omega_doom> Unit193: Ok, 12 what i have now and it is broken. 13 is a candidate and it is not ready yet.
[09:29] <gneeriiloeepdeer> k
[09:58] <Nipoc> Morning all, I'm having a bit of trouble upgrading a machine from 20.04 to 22.04. All seemed to be going fine but when I returned the lock screen is up and it seems stuck on 'authentication error' as if I've typed an incorrect password - but I can't type anything at all. I can esc to select the user again and everything works fine on tty3 so it's not the keyboard. The onscreen keyboard doesn't help either. It's as if I'
[09:58] <Nipoc> leaning on the keys but I'm not. I would just reboot it but I can see from tty3 apt is still doing something and don't want to bork it in the middle of an upgrade. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
[11:10] <arkanoid> arraybolt3[m]: (late) thanks for the anwer
[11:10] <arkanoid> *answer
[11:33] <knstn> If I have 2 sites enabled in Apache, and one of them has this "<VirtualHost _default_:80> ServerName example.com" And the second "<VirtualHost *:80> ServerName random.com", will be served correctly? I don't get any error with "apache2ctl configtest"
[11:35] <murmel> sarnold: great :) at least now I try to also remember that
[11:55] <timahvo1> Hi, I can't run any scripts (bash or otherwise) by appending ./ to them even after chmod +x. I get a Permission denied error. Any clue as to what could be causing this and possible solutions besides appending bash to script.sh ?
[11:58] <EriC^^> timahvo1: what does "ls -l /path/to/script.sh" show?
[12:01] <timahvo1> EriC^^: -rwxr-xr-x 1 user user 1626 Aug  9 11:19
[12:09] <ogra> timahvo1, and the script does not live on i.e. an external USB stick or some such ?
[12:11] <timahvo1> ogra: no its in my ~/
[12:11] <EriC^^> timahvo1: what's the first line of the script?
[12:11] <ogra> and it does have a proper hashbang as the first line ? ("#! /bin/sh")
[12:11] <ogra> heh, *snap*
[12:13] <timahvo1> EriC^^: the shebang is #!/bin/bash
[12:15] <timahvo1> the thing that's puzzling is that it's always worked fine before up until I upgraded to 22.04 while keeping my original /home
[12:16] <EriC^^> timahvo1: you have a separate /home partition?
[12:16] <timahvo1> EriC^^: yes I do
[12:17] <EriC^^> timahvo1: what's the output of "mount | grep /home"
[12:17] <timahvo1> EriC^^: /dev/sda5 on /home type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,noatime)
[12:18] <ogra> noexec ...
[12:18] <ogra> there you go
[12:18] <EriC^^> timahvo1: edit /etc/fstab and remove noexec, it should work afterwards
[12:18] <ogra> (i wonder how that got there though ... usually it is only set for automounted devices like USB sticks)
[12:19] <timahvo1> thanks guys wouldn't have spotted that.
[12:21] <EriC^^> no problem timahvo1
[12:23] <timahvo1> a quick mount -o remount,exec /home did the trick but will edit fstab. Thanks again fellas, have a good one.
[13:02] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:08] <DynamiteDan> greetings. I am having problems passing arguments to mv
[13:09] <DynamiteDan> the filenames have - and spaces
[13:09] <DynamiteDan> how do I proceed to pass them? Thanks in advance
[13:10] <leftyfb> DynamiteDan: use quotes
[13:11] <coconut> or slash
[13:13] <samy1028b> DynamiteDan:  mv "This\ is\ a\ file\ with\ spaces.txt" ThisIsAFileWithoutSpaces.txt
[13:17] <geirha> too much quoting. Either remove the \-es or the ""
[13:18] <pingpongprog> ?
[13:18] <geirha> Either "This is a file with spaces.txt" or This\ is\ a\ file\ with\ spaces.txt. Two ways to quote the same string
[13:30] <rapha> hi all!
[13:30] <rapha> does anybody have the info handy how many GB the Jammy Jellyfish apt repositories take up when being fully mirrored?
[13:30] <rapha> I suspect it's a little less than 300GB, but am not sure
[13:30] <pingpongprog> ?
[13:32] <leftyfb> rapha: mirror it and check
[13:32] <Maik> pingpongprog: please stop with that if you don't have a ubuntu support question
[13:33] <hggdh> rapha: IDK but, when I was caching (via apt-cache-ng) my home net (which means only the packages I was deploying on any of the systems got cached -- Ubuntu desktop, KDE, and server) I was using around 40GB for mostly binary packages
[13:33] <rapha> leftyfb: how should i do that when i know that i don't know if there's sufficient space? there's no logic in that.
[13:34] <rapha> hggdh: caches tend to be much smaller than full mirrors though
[13:34] <rapha> but yeah, i'm mirroring bin packages only not src
[13:38] <rapha> hah
[13:38] <rapha> we just found out
[13:38] <rapha> it's only 140GB
[13:38] <hggdh> rapha: yes, this is why I started with IDK. But you can try something like https://gist.github.com/ThinGuy/30998b4c89a3d050feb359baf96627fc
[13:38] <rapha> nm and thanks
[14:06] <kushal_kumaran> DynamiteDan: if your filenames can begin with `-`, prefix with `./` to prevent them from being parsed as options to the command.
[14:13] <solsTiCe> you can use '--' in most cli prog, to signal the end of options and avoid a file with '' to being parsed for an option
[14:17] <solsTiCe> https://paste.rs/xSh
[15:01] <jilocasin> morning everyone.
[15:01] <jilocasin> Can anyone point me in the direction of how to determine if we are using netplan or something else on Ubuntu Server 22.04?  thanks
[15:05] <ogra> jilocasin, what would "something else" be ? (by default Ubuntu Server always uses netplan since 18.04)
[15:07] <alkisg> AFAIK if you run `networkctl` and you see managed interfaces, you're using the default netplan + systemd-networkd combo
[15:13] <jilocasin> ogra: rouge admin, likes to install ifupdown
[15:14] <ogra> eek
[15:14] <jilocasin> alkisg: All unmanaged,
[15:14] <alkisg> jilocasin: check /etc/network/interfaces* and /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/*
[15:14] <jilocasin> running netplan -h returns a helpful blurb telling me it isn't installed but can by with apt-get install netplan.io.
[15:14] <ogra> ugh
[15:15] <ogra> that means your install is inclomplete ... netplan is part of the server-minimal and minimal tasks
[15:15] <alkisg> And: dpkg -l | grep -E 'ifupdown|network-manager|netplan'
[15:15] <ogra> either of them should always be installed
[15:16] <jilocasin> There is a valid yaml file in the netplan directory, but *also* a full interfaces files.
[15:16] <ogra> oh my
[15:16] <ogra> sounds like quite a mess
[15:16] <jilocasin> ogra: I believe he has an Ansible playbook that strips it.
[15:17] <alkisg> There was a bug about removing netplan, something wasn't working right if you did... /me can't remember exactly what
[15:17] <ogra> well, netplan calls "netplan apply" on boot if it finds a configured setup that has not been applied ... so you will likely run into races between ifupdown and netplan on boot
[15:18] <jilocasin> alkisg: ifupdown & libnetplan0:amd64
[15:18] <alkisg> Sounds like your sysadmin doesn't like to learn new stuff :P :D
[15:18] <ogra> heh
[15:19] <ogra> "new" ...
[15:19] <ogra> (... only the default since 4y )
[15:20] <ogra> but i guess some people are just slow to learn ...
[15:22] <jilocasin> yea
[15:24] <jilocasin> thanks for all your help
[15:34] <vista> Hi folks, I'm wondering about something regarding the mainline kernel builds provided by Ubuntu devs (https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/): are there accompanying builds of linux-libc-dev provided anywhere?
[15:35] <vista> or would I need a completely custom kernel to get those header files for a newer kernel?
[15:39] <ogra> vista, these kernels are not usable in production and are solely built so that a kernel team member can ask you in a bug to temporary install it to verify a fix ... so no, there are a) no accompanying packages, b) these kernels alck all ubuntu sauce patches, c) they are missing a lot of default config options ubuntu userspace expectes to be enabled
[15:40] <ogra> s/alck/lack/
[15:41] <ogra> vista, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds ... specifically "These kernels are not supported and are not appropriate for production use."
[15:42] <ogra> oh ... i missed d) they are not ever getting upgraded/updated on your disk once you install them (since they are not distro integrated (i.e. missing metapackages and all))
[15:48] <vista> ogra: what would you suggest instead if the feature I need is in a kernel newer than the one offered by 22.04?
[15:49] <ogra> vista, even newer than the hwe kernel ?
[15:49] <vista> yeah, patch was merged in 5.18
[15:50] <vista> earlier kernels offer partial support, but I'm specifically trying to get a kernel running that has full support for AMD SEV-SNP
[15:51] <vista> running as a guest
[15:51] <ogra> hmm, 5.18 or 5.19 should soon become the new -hwe one ... i'D ask in #ubuntu-kernel when you can expect it
[15:52] <ogra> perhaps it is close enugh to not waste your own time into rolling your own kernel
[15:52] <ogra> beyond this, there is likely a kinetic (22.10) tree on kernel.ubuntu.com already that you could use as a base
[15:52] <vista> yeah... that'd be great for my thesis advisor, not so great for yours truly :P
[15:53] <ogra> either way, i think #ubuntu-kernel is the best channel for this
[15:53] <vista> but thank you for the pointer
[15:54] <vista> hm, from what I remember, the hwe kernel didn't have an accompanying hwe version of linux-libc-dev, does it?
[15:55] <ioria> nope
[15:56] <ioria> vista, are you having problem with linux-libc-dev and a mainline kernel already installed ?
[16:17] <vista> ioria: a header file is missing from it that was added in 5.18
[16:17] <vista> from what I can tell
[16:23] <vista> include/uapi/linux/sev-guest.h <- this one
[16:25] <vista> *it's actually in 5.19, I misremembered it it
[16:30] <jhutchins> vista: What's your theisis?  Sounds like your advisor is trying to wean you off of distro hand-holding and get you to learn how linux is actually built.
[16:31] <jhutchins> vista: Can you not download the libraries and dependencies from kernel.org?
[16:32] <vista> jhutchins: it's about automating SEV-SNP production-ready image building :)
[16:33] <vista> given the amount of maintenance effort needed to maintain a kernel build (I've done it before) as well as other software deps, I'd like to offload any task possible to much more capable hands :)
[16:38] <jhutchins> It seems like the harder they work on container isolation, the harder the other teams are working to break through the isolation and allow full access to the host system facilities.
[16:38] <jhutchins> Seems like a futile waste of time and resources.
[16:48] <knusbaum> Hey, all. Having some trouble with sbuild. I can't seem to get mk-sbuild to work on focal. It keeps getting Permission denied when trying to write to /var/lib/schroot/chroots/. I'm running as my user, as it complains when I run it as root. I am in the sbuild group.
[17:09] <arraybolt3[m]> knusbaum: You may need to log out and log back in, or run "sg sbuild" first.
[17:11] <knusbaum> I did both of those.
[17:12] <knusbaum> It looks like /var/lib/schroot/chroots is owned by root, and even when I manually chown it, it doesn't seem to persist.
[17:17] <jhutchins> knusbaum: Are you following any build guide?
[17:19] <knusbaum> jhutchins, yeah, this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
[17:22] <jhutchins> knusbaum: Oooh, bionic - that might be a bit out of date.
[17:22] <jhutchins> This one's for hardy, only a couple of years old: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
[17:22] <knusbaum> Can't seem to find a newer guide.
[17:23] <arraybolt3[m]> jhutchins: See, that guide worked for me (though I skipped the one part that it said didn't work anymore and adapted the stuff to work with Kinetic, Jammy, and Debian Unstable).
[17:24] <jhutchins> I don't know which is worse, the failure to update docs or the failure to clean up or mark deprecated docs.
[17:24] <jhutchins> At least these two say what release they're for.  Too many are un-dated.
[17:27] <jhutchins> knusbaum: You might find it simpler to just do a normal build.  If you're working with official source packages the chances of rogue code are really very small.  (Not much return on the effort of sabotaging it.)
[17:27] <jhutchins> !pbuild
[17:27] <jhutchins> Sigh.
[17:28] <knusbaum> jhutchins, It's not so much I'm worried about rogue code and want isolation as much as I want a clean build environment.
[17:28] <knusbaum> I guess I can rig up docker for that.
[17:28] <knusbaum> But was hoping to use the "official" tools.
[17:30] <jhutchins> knusbaum: Why not just build a clean chroot?
[17:31] <jhutchins> I would suspect containers would introduce their own build artifacts.
[17:32] <jhutchins> Great if you're building for use in a container, but maybe not for normal builds.
[17:32] <knusbaum> Hmm, I wonder.
[17:32] <ogra> all official pakage builds are done using lxd containers
[17:33] <ogra> and i assume most devs nowadays also use lxd to get pristine environments for the various targets they build for
[17:33] <jhutchins> ogra: What's wrong with chroot?
[17:33] <ogra> can leak into the host
[17:34] <ogra> and des not give you its own /proc /sys /dev etc
[17:34] <jhutchins> Mine do, but no matter.
[17:34] <ogra> beynd this building a container is a lot faster nowadays than bootstrapping a chroot
[17:34] <jhutchins> If chroot can "leak" containers certainly can.
[17:34] <jhutchins> I don't think I've ever bootstrapped a chroot.
[17:35] <knusbaum> How do you generate a clean chroot?
[17:35] <ogra> debootstrap ...
[17:35] <knusbaum> ahh.
[17:35] <jhutchins> I suppose you could do that through the grub CLI, pass an alternate root parameter.
[17:35] <ogra> (there are newer tools IIRC, i have not used that for a while)
[17:36] <ogra> ???
[17:36] <jhutchins> I just do a normal install the chroot to it.
[17:36] <ogra> where does grub come into play here
[17:36] <jhutchins> ogra: I thought you were booting to a chroot environment, as opposed to booting the host then executing chroot.
[17:37] <ogra> if i boot into it, it isnt a "ch"root anymore ... just a rootfs 😉
[17:38] <jhutchins> Yeah, took a minute, debootstrap as opposed to a full install.
[17:38] <ogra> ch stands for "change" 🙂
[17:38] <jhutchins> There's a lot of work building a full environment that way, but it can be scripted.
[17:38] <ogra> why would you ?
[17:38] <ogra> as i understand the original question was about package building
[17:39] <jhutchins> For some reason there was a distro build process that built a chroot for every build run, and tore it down whether the run succeeded or not.  Quite a pain.
[17:39] <ogra> well, tha was the way before you had containers
[17:39] <jhutchins> ogra: Yes, originally trying to find a working, documented build process.
[17:40] <ogra> just use lxd ... fire up a container, shell into it, use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild or whatever tool you prefer
[17:40] <leftyfb> it also can be scripted
[17:41] <knusbaum> Yeah, that's what I'll probably do with docker. If I run into some issues building in a container then I'll see about LXD or chroot or whatever.
[17:41] <ogra> ... lxd is installed by default in ubuntu ...
[17:41] <jhutchins> I still think I'd trust a chroot to look more like a bare system than a container would.
[17:41] <knusbaum> But I've been building for other systems in containers for a long time and rarely run into major problems.
[17:41] <leftyfb> jhutchins: that makes no sense
[17:41] <ogra> yeah
[17:41] <jhutchins> Well, not to you.
[17:41] <leftyfb> jhutchins: lxd = ubuntu in a different namespace
[17:41] <ogra> chroot is just a container without proper isolation
[17:42] <knusbaum> Yes, or said the opposite way, a container is just a chroot with some different namespaces.
[17:42] <ogra> well, there is more, but yeah
[17:43] <knusbaum> not much more, is there?
[17:43] <jhutchins> Anyway, if y'all can help knusbaum with his build process I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
[17:43] <leftyfb> shared kernel, networking, ACL's
[17:44] <ogra> sudo lxd init --auto;  lxc launch ubuntu:20.04 focal; lxc shell focal ... install your favourite package build tool ... pull your souce in ... build package ...
[17:45] <leftyfb> wait ....
[17:45]  * leftyfb spins up a new container
[17:45] <leftyfb> well how bout that.... TIL
[17:46]  * jhutchins heads out to the stable.
[17:46] <leftyfb> ogra: is "shell" new?
[17:46] <ogra> ancient 🙂
[17:46] <ogra> but was not documented for a long time 🙂
[17:46] <leftyfb> ogra: I've been using "lxc exec containername "/bin/bash"" this wohlw time
[17:46] <ogra> yeah, many people did
[17:47] <leftyfb> I have a shell function now regardless:   lxcsh containername
[17:47] <ogra> shell wrks since 2016 or so ... but only made it into docs proper in 2019 or some such (cant remember the exact daes, but around these times)
[17:47] <ogra> *date
[17:50] <sarnold> yay lxc shell! heh
[17:50] <leftyfb> sarnold: you didn't know either?
[17:52] <sarnold> leftyfb: i've been doing the 'lxc exec foo /bin/bash' thing for ages
[17:52] <leftyfb> right?!
[17:52] <sarnold> I'm pretty sure that does something stupid, too, but I can't remember what, now
[20:15] <tssva> The latest kernel upgrade for 22.04 on the raspberry pi broke my setup. It was caused by the moving of kernel modules to the modules extra package. This is the 2nd time moving of kernel modules caused an issue for me. The first was when initally updating to 22.04 and discovering when I could no longer reach my Rpi that the modules needed for ethernet vlans was moved to the extras package. At least that happened at release
[20:15] <tssva> time and although I find the warning lacking there was a warning about moved kernel modules in the release notes. This particular module was eventually moved back to the main modules package. This time the network dummy interface module was moved to the modules extra package. Unfortunately I make use of dummy interfaces and updating the kernel caused hard to troubleshoot issues on my network as certain services were no
[20:15] <tssva> longer available. Moving kernel modules out of the main module package during the life cycle of a LTS release is a decision that perplexes me.
[20:16] <sarnold> that's probably worth a bug report
[20:17] <sarnold> use dpkg -l 'linux*' | grep ^ii   to find the name of the kernel package; then ubuntu-bug <name of the kernel package> --  that'll get you to a launchpad url to finish the bug report
[22:51] <Hash> Failed to start Refresh fwupd metadata and update motd.
[22:52] <Hash> fwupd-refresh.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE
[22:53] <Hash> How would I fix this service so it starts? I'm not sure why it fails
[22:53] <Hash> sudo /usr/bin/fwupdmgr refresh --force works to update to the latest stuff
[22:53] <Hash> I'm on 22.04
[22:54] <Hash> https://bpa.st/LWCA here's some more log
[22:54] <Hash> sudo service fwupd status ... says this
[22:57] <Dan39> Hash: i've been seeing that too. there are some workarounds you could do, like make it a timer, or delayed, or manually run it once in a while, but ultimately i have a feeling the distro needs to do something about it, seems kinda like a bug
[23:41] <jhutchins> .
[23:41] <wez> ..
[23:45] <jhutchins> Sounds like it would be upstream, like the service isn't waiting for networking to be completely uo.
[23:46] <jhutchins> The solution to that would be to tweak the service file.
[23:51] <skraito> hey guys anyone use antivirus for their box
[23:51] <skraito> ?
[23:51] <sarnold> I don't think it would be very useful for a pure linux environment. using clamav on a mail server or samba server might make sense if you've got windows users
[23:52] <oerheks> skraito, who let you in?
[23:52] <sarnold> I did
[23:52] <sarnold> well, okay, it was a team decision :) but that's a bit less snappy, hehe
[23:53] <skraito> hmm i heard linux need it now
[23:53] <sarnold> anyeay, skraito's been trying to turn over a new leaf, as it were; he's been behaving in a few other channels so far, and we're willing to give him another try
[23:53] <skraito> did ubuntu come with other than clamav antivirus sarnold
[23:53] <skraito> in default packages ?
[23:53] <sarnold> skraito: clamav is the only one i know that's packaged, but there might be more
[23:54] <skraito> hey yah oerheks
[23:54] <skraito> i am just a spammer
[23:54] <skraito> no more than that
[23:54] <leftyfb> uh
[23:54] <skraito> sorry man oerheks
[23:54] <skraito> i see sarnold
[23:55] <leftyfb> skraito: you are a spammer?
[23:55] <skraito> dns i got it antivirus i got it
[23:55] <skraito> nah long story leftyfb
[23:55] <skraito> just promoting some link or talking off topic stuff
[23:55] <skraito> in #ubuntu
[23:55] <leftyfb> skraito: please don't
[23:55] <skraito> anyway brb googling
[23:55] <skraito> i mean not now
[23:55] <skraito> last time
[23:57] <skraito> yeah finally my favourite one got supported too sarnold
[23:57] <skraito> https://www.comodo.com/home/internet-security/antivirus-for-linux.php
[23:57] <skraito> it mention ubuntu too there
[23:57] <arraybolt3[m]> skraito: As long as you're careful with what you download, an antivirus won't be necessary. I went into great detail about why in an Ubuntu Forums post I'll dig up. Really, the best defense against malware (and also dying hardware) is a decent backup system.
[23:57] <skraito> not sure about the sandbox future though
[23:58] <skraito> nah i am more interested to the server part arraybolt3[m]
[23:58] <skraito> not desktop
[23:58] <skraito> ah nvm i mean i still use windows 10 for desktop
[23:58] <skraito> only for serve
[23:58] <skraito> only for server
[23:58] <skraito> i just wish ubuntu still support 32 bit
[23:58] <sarnold> skraito: btw, it's not necessary to correct every typo -- just the ones that impact legibility
[23:58] <arraybolt3[m]> skraito: Ah. In that instance I guess using clamav might be helpful to keep malware from spreading through your server.
[23:58] <skraito> okay sarnold
[23:59] <skraito> sarnold is there no more supported even lts for 32 bit
[23:59] <skraito> i am so hestitate to use this freebsd and openbsd for my desktop
[23:59] <skraito> i mean this eeepc