[00:13] <tomreyn> arraybolt3[m]: interesting. but if you don't care about anonymous web usage, why do you care about "Connects to third party services by default"?
[00:13] <arraybolt3[m]> I dunno, I thought I told it I was fine with that.
[00:13] <arraybolt3[m]> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[00:14] <tomreyn> thinking more about this, i don't think ubuntu connects to *third party* services by default, but i may be wrong there. i guess you can say it does when you run a web browser.
[00:15] <arraybolt3[m]> I think it has something like popcon or something, plus it sends system info to Canonical (and I think some usage info too?). I actually like that - if I can make the OS better by just using it, more power to you!
[00:15] <arraybolt3[m]> (Telemetry is always a good thing if the observing party is trustworthy, at least in my opinion.)
[00:15] <arraybolt3[m]> (And it depends what you collect, but I was comfortable with what Canonical collects.)
[00:16] <tomreyn> I dislike that the telemetry service does not provide a way to opt out from it that prevents the system from connecting to it. I believe this was developed this way on purpose.
[00:17] <tomreyn> Still, this would not be third party from my POV.
[00:19] <tomreyn> Popcon is Debian, only gathers little information and makes it available to the general public. Ubuntu uses its own service which does not provide complete or current statistics to the general public.
[00:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Just selecting to not share info just after installation doesn't do the trick?
[00:20] <tomreyn> It doesn't prevent the system from connecting to the telemetry service (as in a 'HTTP ping'), supposedly for the purpose of transferring the information that you want to / have chosen to opt out of the service.
[00:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah. That does sound annoying. I guess I trust Canonical enough that I'm willing to ignore it, but I do see why that's frustrating.
[00:26] <tomreyn> Well, not frustrating, it just shows the developers of this, or those who instructed them, considered gathering the information on how many opt outs there are, and maybe where users are located, and which ISPs they use, to be more relevant than the users' ability to *really* opt out, or even as I'd request for all such services, to instead opt-in.
[00:27] <tomreyn> Of course there are numerous other Canonical run services which an Ubuntu system will still communicate with without the users even being aware of it. Mostly in the very users' interest, though.
[01:33] <JanC> I'm not so sure it would be legal to send info after the user said they don't want it...
[01:43] <tomreyn> the only info being sent is that the user has opted out of the service. sent over http, on a tcp connection opened from the system providing this message.
[02:13] <JanC> doesn't really matter what you send, if you do it after (seemingly) promising you wouldn't...
[02:29] <enigma9o7[m]> That survey seems outdated.  For one thing, the way it decides if you have a new pc or old pc is only the one question, and if you pick the old/slow option, it assumes you're 32-bit. 
[02:29] <enigma9o7[m]> There are certainly plenty of slow 64-bit machines.  My athlon xp is one of them.  
[02:30] <JanC> sometimes it's better to run 32-bits on old 64-bit CPUs too
[02:30] <enigma9o7[m]> It also never asked any other spec about my computer, so I feel thats kinda dumb.  Having 1GB of ram to me is different than having 8GB and would affect distro choice, certainly desktop choice.
[02:30] <JanC> 32-bits applications use less RAM
[02:31] <enigma9o7[m]> (correcting above, my athlon64, sorry)
[02:33] <enigma9o7[m]> Some (proprietary) apps are only offered 64-bit, so these days people are more likely to choose 64-bit for that reason alone.  Also, 32-bit has 3.2GB ram limitation without PAE, so if you have 4GB+ its better to use 64-bit OS than 32-bit anyway.   Anyway I digress.
[02:33] <enigma9o7[m]> The maint point is that distro choser I dont think is very accurate.  But it also told me to run opensuse.
[02:34] <JanC> most 32-bits linux kernels don't even work without PAE...
[02:34] <JanC> most 32-bit distro kernels
[02:35] <enigma9o7[m]> I only have one 32-bit machine now, and use debian without pae on it.... cuz only 512mb ram.
[02:35] <JanC> but I agree that it might be inaccurate and a bit outdated  :)
[02:35] <JanC> on the plus side, it's open source, so you can fix it  ;)
[02:37] <enigma9o7[m]> even with PAE, dont you still have 3.2GB limitation on applications?
[02:37] <JanC> limitations on applications, yes
[02:37] <enigma9o7[m]> I guess these days browser runs everything in seperate processes so that dont matter... but in old days of single process browser, you could go over 3GB
[02:38] <JanC> but such low-end hardware probably doesn't even have 4 GiB RAM
[02:38] <enigma9o7[m]> yep exactly, and if you do have over 4GB, it probably has 64-bit cpu
[02:39] <JanC> but some low-end 64-bit CPU hardware has 4 GiB or less  :)
[02:39] <JanC> and for those a 32-bit userspace could be useful
[02:40] <enigma9o7[m]> I do actually have an athlon 64, which is one of first 64-bit cpu released back in 2004...  i wonder what my motherboard max ram is... but i only have 1.5GB on that system now anyway, and do have 64-bit focal on that one.
[02:40] <enigma9o7[m]> afraid of upgrading cuz then no more nvidia-340
[02:41] <JanC> I think some distros for ARM boards use 64-bit kernel with a 32-bit userspace by default
[02:43] <JanC> anyway, they should probably ask specifically about such things  :)
[02:45] <enigma9o7[m]> I had a phone with sailfishos like that; 64-bit kernel but 32-bit userspace by default.
[02:47] <JanC> "Some distributions use online services" → there are distros that don't?
[02:48] <JanC> except maybe a very small number of very specialised ones, I'm pretty sure all distros us "online services"
[02:48] <JanC> use*
[02:49] <enigma9o7[m]> i get my updates via QIC-80 tapes that I pick up from the library
[02:49] <enigma9o7[m]> none of those online services for me
[02:50] <JanC> and you sync the clock in your PC to your sun dial clock?
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Download updates with a keyboard and a hex editor
[02:51] <enigma9o7[m]> i subscribe to a magazine for software.... they give me actual code i can type in to make programs
[02:51] <enigma9o7[m]> last week i spent like 3 hours typing in one, and it let me play tetris
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> For real?
[02:52] <JanC> I'm not sure there are a lot of magazines like that still  :)
[02:52] <JanC> certainly they were still around 20 years ago though
[02:53] <enigma9o7[m]> yeah im not for real, i dont think magazines with type-in code exist anymore; if so someone would ocr it and host it online so others didnt have to type it in.
[02:53] <enigma9o7[m]> but certainly when i was a kid, there were books at the library fulled with apple2 and commodore 64 programs
[02:53] <enigma9o7[m]> and there were magazines every  month with new programs
[02:53] <enigma9o7[m]> and people really did spend 3 hours typing one in to try a game like tetris
[02:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Then they invented THE FLOPPY DISK!!!!!!!!!
[02:56] <JanC> most magazines that printed code like that _also_ came with a floppy or CD later, and even later they came with online downloads too, but sometimes they would still print some code
[02:56] <arraybolt3[m]> Heh, my C# book had tons of code snippets in it, some of which were full programs IIRC. None of them really did anything all that cool though :(
[02:58] <JanC> maybe C't still prints some code in their magazine?
[03:33] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:48] <Chunkyz> Morning 🌅
[11:18] <wez> evening
[20:30] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue748 is now available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue748 :D
[20:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Bashing-om: \o/